Is Droughtales + Chlorophyll banned already? I don't see why you would run Sunny Day on Whimsicott when Ninetales exist...
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Whimsicott
- Thread starter Manaphy
- Start date
No its not, but it's always a fair idea to run Sunny Day even with Ninetales. It's just in case you lose your Ninetales and they still have their weather summoner - they'll likely be a lot less cautious with their Tyranitar, and with Sunny Day you can put the weather back in your favour even after Ninetales is gone. It's a good strategy and lots of people do it when running Drought/Drizzle teams.
potential move combo would be a choice item + switcheroo? kinda like 3rd gen 'kazam. seems like it'd be good against other subseeders or leads
Switcheroo is illegal with Encore, I believe. And Whimsicott should always have Encore.
but you wouldn't need encore if you switcheroo'd a choice item, right?
The whole point of Whimiscott is to abuse priority and force switches. Encore helps a lot in the regard, but if you want to switcheroo choiced items you're better off choosing another pokemon? It needs the priority sub, taunt and leechseed or uturn for damage. Switcheroo won't help it
Priority Switcheroo means it can abuse Iron Ball, Choice Band, Specs, and Scarf, whereas most Trickers are pretty much limited only to a Scarf. Nothing beats slapping a Band on Latios.
Who says? If you switcharoo, you get their item. Put a choice-item on their favorite set-up poke. Now you have it's life-orb/leftovers to put on any poke run choice on. What are you really going to do once your choice-scarf garchomp has leftovers; or, if you're really good, black sludge? At which point, you can do it again, and pretty much wreak havok on their item-base, giving their walls life-orbs and their sweepers leftovers. Sure, you'll probably get kind of predictable after the first few times; you wont ever be able to completely mess up a whole team. But only do it once? Don't be so short-sighted.
j7r said:
I disagree, I've found Erufuun to always pull it's weight on my teams and it has found its way into the pool of 20~ Pokemon that all my teams are comprised of.
I think the main reason you may have found her underwhelming is peoples insistence on using stupid SubSeed sets. PO statistics list the most popular set as:
Whimsicott @ Leftovers Lv. 100 -- Prankster
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
- Encore
So anyway, here's what I use.
Erufuun @ Leftovers
Impish
252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
- Encore
- U-turn
- Leech Seed
- Stun Spore / Taunt
Encore is obvious and should be on every Erufuun set because it is solid gold in this 'BOOST BOOST BOOST' metagame. If you're not using U-turn on Erufuun you're not doing it right so it's a bit upsetting to see you have to go as far as PO's 12th most popular set to find somebody using it. Erufuun forces a boatload of switches whether it's through fear of being Encored into a boosting move, fear of being crippled by Stun Spore or urgency to escape Leech Seed so U-turn is excellent for scouting and keeping momentum (it even hits common switch-ins such as Espeon, Latios, and Celebi for respectable damage). If you're ballsy/have a good feel for your opponent, there's nothing sweeter than switching in on a Dory Swords Dance and U-turning off the bat as they switch out to avoid Encore (not gonna lie, I've been spiked by a few X-Scissors attempting that heh). Priority Stun Spore is great and lets you check all sorts of shit, whereas Taunt prevents Ferrothorn from coming in for free and setting up. Obviously it forces a tonne of switches so entry hazard support is a must. An excellent team support Pokemon imo.
j7r said:
I concede that point.
i never take him off my team. and i used subseed for so long. i'm finallyeeing the error of my ways. u-turn + encore is INSHEEN! (yes yes thats insane + charlie SHEEN.)
I meant that if the final, most important purpose was to lock a pokemon into a move, then yes, you can only do it to one pokemon. After youve switched youre item over to another poke, thats the last time you can lock a pokemon into one move unless you spend a few turns in getting another choiced pokemon in, then taking its item, then getting it out, then putting the item on another pokemon, while you can encore as many times as you want, no matter what has already happened. also, if the pokemon switched back in with its choice item, it will know exactly what it will be locked into, as opposed to having encore be a surprise and wasting a few turns setting up or something like that. Finally, whimiscott must have a choice item at first, which drastically reduces his versatility as if he wants to be able to switch moves to subseed or paralyze and then do something else or whatever, he has to switch items first, which not only wastes a turn that he might not want to use, then he has already taken his one shot that switcharoo allows him to have on something that may not even care about being choiced. so as ive already said, switcharoo does have some advantages, but as we were discussing the best way to lock another pokemon into a move exclusively, encore is better at doing that.
Hey, I love the little annoying cotton ball but I'm having trouble fitting it well on a team. What are good partners for him? Do you think that pairing him with a trapper reaps benefits or is it subpar?
On other matters. I agree with Lee that using Subseeding is kind of terrible and ignores the huge potential of the pokemon. I feel that Encore/U-Turn/Leech Seed are too good to pass up for that kind of Whimsicotts.
On other matters. I agree with Lee that using Subseeding is kind of terrible and ignores the huge potential of the pokemon. I feel that Encore/U-Turn/Leech Seed are too good to pass up for that kind of Whimsicotts.
I'll also concur with Lee and General that Encore/U-turn/Leech Seed are absolutely necessary for the little guy. If you aren't using these three moves, you're better off using something else. The priority encore and u-turn combo is the ultimate momentum-grabber. As for the fourth move, i will again strongly disagree with the use of substitute. It is contradictory to Erufuun's goal. My suggestion is either Stun Spore, Toxic or Cotton Guard. Stun Spore supports other team members and can cripple many common sweepers, Toxic is a good choice for stallish teams to poison foes immune to toxic spikes and helps to conserve encore PP by killing pokemon quicker than leech seed does alone, and Cotton Guard will allow you to stabilize against the majority of physical threats that are stuck in your encore/leech seed trap (it's really only useful with hazards on the field though, but you should be using these with erufuun to begin with).
General, you have to use the grass typing to your advantage. On the surface, Grass is a poor defensive type due to its many weaknesses and the fact that water and electric attacks are almost always backed up by ice (this doesn't really count for erufuun though thanks to encore), but grass is one of (if not the most) synergistic type in the game. A lot of really good pokemon resist or are immune to most of grass' weaknesses, sometimes all at once (heatran) and grass does a great job of resisting some of that pokemon's weaknesses in return (again, heatran). Then you can add something like vaporeon to the mix; erufuun resists both its weaknesses and vappy resists fire and ice, and vappy can support both heatran and erufuun with wish. These are only examples of course.
General, you have to use the grass typing to your advantage. On the surface, Grass is a poor defensive type due to its many weaknesses and the fact that water and electric attacks are almost always backed up by ice (this doesn't really count for erufuun though thanks to encore), but grass is one of (if not the most) synergistic type in the game. A lot of really good pokemon resist or are immune to most of grass' weaknesses, sometimes all at once (heatran) and grass does a great job of resisting some of that pokemon's weaknesses in return (again, heatran). Then you can add something like vaporeon to the mix; erufuun resists both its weaknesses and vappy resists fire and ice, and vappy can support both heatran and erufuun with wish. These are only examples of course.
The best thing you can possibly team this guy up with is Stealth Rocks + other hazards. He forces so many switches that it can rack up a lot of residual damage on your opponents.
And stuff that can take on Nattorei/Forretress/Skarmory, as all three of them can just set up hazards in your face if you lack taunt. Heatran works well, naturally.
Generally, I like Stun Spore as Erufuun's last move, as it's often a last hurrah for the little guy if I've got an Excadrill ready to sweep me. Not as accurate as Thundurus' thunder wave, but can slow down Garchomp, Landlos and Excadrill which is excellent.
And stuff that can take on Nattorei/Forretress/Skarmory, as all three of them can just set up hazards in your face if you lack taunt. Heatran works well, naturally.
Generally, I like Stun Spore as Erufuun's last move, as it's often a last hurrah for the little guy if I've got an Excadrill ready to sweep me. Not as accurate as Thundurus' thunder wave, but can slow down Garchomp, Landlos and Excadrill which is excellent.
I can sort of see Switcheroo as a way to keep Ferrothorn from being a hard counter (immune to Leech Seed, doesn't care about Stun Spore, and Encore just makes it set up more Spikes like it was going to do anyway), but if you're using Switcheroo Whimsicott as your Ferrothorn counter, you have serious teambuilding issues. Stick with Encore.
Switcharoo is defintely inferior to Encore, I'll agree to that, but it shouldn't be dismissed completely. I can see some sets that run it just to maintain unpredictability. Personally, I still love the idea of him as a taunting anti-lead, as that's just one moveslot that can really just mess the opponent up from the get-go, unless they happen to start off with a decent offensive lead, in which case, you can still use that to your advantage and mind-game them to death.
I've always wondered if sub was really that important to him though. It really just seems like a bad protect, unless you're good enough to set it up on a boost (and since too many people live shoving encore onto this bugger, it's pretty much impossible not to assume he'll use it). It seems like a good idea in theory, but I swear that moveslot could go to something much more useful.
And why so much leech-seed? If you're forcing switches, leech-seed should be your last option; and I'm almost possitive that priority cripples it. I'd rather have a slow, chunky leech-seeder like Ferrothorn who will hit them no matter what, even if they U-turn. It's not like you get any advantage of going first with leech-seed, other than the fact that it'll hit before they get a chance to kill you(which, if that's the case, you should have encored first).
Toxic on the other hand, seems like a much better choice. The fact that you can't get rid of it by switching means it's a little less likely to force that switch, until you take into account that you're just sitting there getting encore+toxic'd. It also makes players much more warry of what to send in, because of the threat of a toxic on the switch-in(in addition to entry hazards). And with priority taunt, they can't even aromatherapy/heal bell; while with just encore, they at least get it off once. It just seems like a way to make sure Whimsicott actually has a measurable effect on their team, even after he's gone; with leech-seed, once he's gone, all you've done is MAYBE sapped a few guys for 1/4 of their health.
I really think you can pull off a fairly effective set with just U-turn, Encore, Taunt, and your fourth move of choice(toxic, stun spore, cotton guard, w/e). The point is, unless you can nab a kill of U-turn, you shouldn't be trying to stall them to death or grab ANY kills at all with just Whimsicott. That just isn't his job.
I've always wondered if sub was really that important to him though. It really just seems like a bad protect, unless you're good enough to set it up on a boost (and since too many people live shoving encore onto this bugger, it's pretty much impossible not to assume he'll use it). It seems like a good idea in theory, but I swear that moveslot could go to something much more useful.
And why so much leech-seed? If you're forcing switches, leech-seed should be your last option; and I'm almost possitive that priority cripples it. I'd rather have a slow, chunky leech-seeder like Ferrothorn who will hit them no matter what, even if they U-turn. It's not like you get any advantage of going first with leech-seed, other than the fact that it'll hit before they get a chance to kill you(which, if that's the case, you should have encored first).
Toxic on the other hand, seems like a much better choice. The fact that you can't get rid of it by switching means it's a little less likely to force that switch, until you take into account that you're just sitting there getting encore+toxic'd. It also makes players much more warry of what to send in, because of the threat of a toxic on the switch-in(in addition to entry hazards). And with priority taunt, they can't even aromatherapy/heal bell; while with just encore, they at least get it off once. It just seems like a way to make sure Whimsicott actually has a measurable effect on their team, even after he's gone; with leech-seed, once he's gone, all you've done is MAYBE sapped a few guys for 1/4 of their health.
I really think you can pull off a fairly effective set with just U-turn, Encore, Taunt, and your fourth move of choice(toxic, stun spore, cotton guard, w/e). The point is, unless you can nab a kill of U-turn, you shouldn't be trying to stall them to death or grab ANY kills at all with just Whimsicott. That just isn't his job.
Leech Seed prevents your opponent from stalling you out of encore PP while recovering your health nicely. The same could be said about toxic, but you lose out on the recovery and are unable to hit steels, which are MUCH more common than grass types. I've been partial to using both, especially on stallish teams.
What I use:
Lefties Number
@: Lefties
~Leech Seed
~Toxic
~Encore
~Sub
Sweeps teams.
Lefties Number
@: Lefties
~Leech Seed
~Toxic
~Encore
~Sub
Sweeps teams.
Taunt fodder. Really, add u-turn somewhere in there. Or your own Taunt.
Noob question, but does Taunt go thru Sub?
Yesh.
Not to mention Ferrothorn comes in and leisurely sets up w/e hazards it has.
I have Scarf Genosect on the same team :)