Whimsicott

[XienZo]

I'll admit this thing keeps you guessing. If you expect a sub, go for seismic toss. If you expect an encore, go for the toxic.

You know what, screw this strategy. Why not just phaze the thing out??

You can't Toxic after it Encores because Encore forces you to use your last move, not the move you selected. :/

 

[Lord Alchemy]

I've seen a lot of random sets all centered around the same things, but I gotta say, all in all, it looks like it suffers from 4-moveslot syndrome. I've been wracking my mind trying to figure out how to use it well, specifically on a mono-grass team(which is gimmicky to begin with, so sue me). I'll already have Leechseed and probably toxic everywhere, but I'm just wondering how to use this bugger, if at all.
Do I go with taunt, or encore? If both, then what else? I picked him up for speed; and it's clearly designed to be a nuisance pokemon. But what are my other options?

Stun Spore
Tailwind (works better in Doubles)
Sunny Day
Tickle
Fake Tears
Switcheroo
Worry Seed
Charm
Helping Hand (Doubles)
Trick Room (not ideal user, but it works)

Erufuun is all about forcing switches, and has plenty of utility to do so beyond Encore and Taunt. Obviously it has reduced usefulness if you have other Pokemon encroaching on its territory, but thats true of all Pokemon.

And if you have plenty of entry hazards, running multiple SubSeeders could be beneficial.

 

[voodoo pimp]

U-Turn should be used on most Encore sets, as well. If they stay in, you get a free turn, and if they switch, you switch in a counter. Either way, you benefit from it.

 

[lmitchell0012]

Clefable seems like a decent counter to this thing. Since it has magic guard, it's immune to most of it's attacks (all it can really do is u-turn out). It can still encore you, but not until it's second turn, since it's faster than clefable.

So, assuming it sets up a sub on it's first turn, you can encore him. So, seeing as how erufuun can't really cripple you, you're free to get a t-wave/toxic on whatever switches in.

 

[Zebstrika]

Actually you can stay in and Clefable won't be able to do much, and then you can let Whimsicott take the status, Encore it, and then if you have a teammate with an immunity to that status you can switch it in or U-turn out and you have some free time or a free KO.

 

[LeviLamprey]

Clefable can be pretty dangerous with Ice Beam, which isn't uncommon on BoltBeam sets (obviously) though Clefable is hardly #1 on the usage ladder.

 

[Zebstrika]

Just about anything that can deal with Leech Seed and have enough offense to OHKO Whimsicott's subs is a nice counter.

 

[LeviLamprey]

Example: Ice Beam Clefable!

 

[Zebstrika]

I think Abomasnow is better because it helps punish Whimsicott for trying to set up subs and it can easily blast those subs away with Blizzard.

 

[LeviLamprey]

Yes, obviously Abomasnow works better but I was disparaging the statement Clefable does nothing to Whimsicott. Pretty much any super-effective special attack from a decently strong Pokemon takes it down.

 

[breh]

ok guys stop thinking up gimmick counters please

Reuniclus
Scizor
Nattorei

 

[Darkamber8828]

Scizor gets para'd from behind a sub, though, as it U-turns out. When it comes in again, Eru can just Substitute to see what it's doing/for parahax, then seed, then...Erufuun it to death.

 

[Green Mage]

ok guys stop thinking up gimmick counters please

Reuniclus
Scizor
Nattorei

Yes yes and yes.

Scizor is literally its biggest counter. It can't be poisoned, leech seed obviously does nothing to a u-turner, and u-turn slaughters the momentum that erufuun is designed to give you and still does over 50% after a cotton guard. I end up being forced to switch to heatran to take the u-turn which is contradictory to the entire purpose of erufuun. The good news is that the majority of ground and water types that come in on heatran are handled nicely by erufuun, so you can switch right back. In addition to this, scizor hates entry hazards, and teams that use erufuun should be using the rocks and spikes. To the poster above: Scizor couldn't care less about paralysis.

Erufuun can't do shit to Nattorei, but Nattorei can't do shit to Erufuun either and has plenty of hard counters of its own (which is why forry is on my team).

The good news about reuniclus is that an unboosted psychic doesn't do much damage to anything, and if your opponent is the sort that would try to CM on erufuun, you're probably winning regardless. It certainly isn't going to focus blast you, so you can use the terrible psychic typing to your advantage by switching to a dark type or a lati or something that will force it out. This is usually a prediction gamble though.

But yes, all three of these are serious hard counters and the they are extremely common as well. Fortunately they all have hard counters of their own with the exception of that asshole scizor who will just u-turn. The really good news is that Erufuun learns u-turn too; although it's hard to find room for it and it won't be doing much damage, it still prevents the opponent from killing your mojo. U-Turn also has extremely good synergy with encore, and if you aren't using encore on erufuun, you're doing it wrong.

Other gaping assholes to erufuun are togekiss and urugamoth. Both these guys love to set up, but the fact that they have stab moves that ohko erufuun turns it into a 50% prediction gamble.

A less common hard counter is Venusaur. It can't be seeded or poisoned and has sleep powder to cripple your switch-in.

 

[bludhoundz]

In response to you saying that Nattorei can't really do anything to Erufuun - Gyro Ball does massive damage unless you run Cotton Guard.

It's not really a gamble against Togekiss or Urugamosu - sub up and see what they do. If they attack, gtfo. If they setup, encore.

That said Urugamosu can nab a Special Attack raise from Flame Dance in this case...

I agree with everything else you've said.

 

[lmitchell0012]

Yes yes and yes.

Scizor is literally its biggest counter. It can't be poisoned, leech seed obviously does nothing to a u-turner, and u-turn slaughters the momentum that erufuun is designed to give you and still does over 50% after a cotton guard. I end up being forced to switch to heatran to take the u-turn which is contradictory to the entire purpose of erufuun. The good news is that the majority of ground and water types that come in on heatran are handled nicely by erufuun, so you can switch right back. In addition to this, scizor hates entry hazards, and teams that use erufuun should be using the rocks and spikes. To the poster above: Scizor couldn't care less about paralysis.

Erufuun can't do shit to Nattorei, but Nattorei can't do shit to Erufuun either and has plenty of hard counters of its own (which is why forry is on my team).

The good news about reuniclus is that an unboosted psychic doesn't do much damage to anything, and if your opponent is the sort that would try to CM on erufuun, you're probably winning regardless. It certainly isn't going to focus blast you, so you can use the terrible psychic typing to your advantage by switching to a dark type or a lati or something that will force it out. This is usually a prediction gamble though.

But yes, all three of these are serious hard counters and the they are extremely common as well. Fortunately they all have hard counters of their own with the exception of that asshole scizor who will just u-turn. The really good news is that Erufuun learns u-turn too; although it's hard to find room for it and it won't be doing much damage, it still prevents the opponent from killing your mojo. U-Turn also has extremely good synergy with encore, and if you aren't using encore on erufuun, you're doing it wrong.

Other gaping assholes to erufuun are togekiss and urugamoth. Both these guys love to set up, but the fact that they have stab moves that ohko erufuun turns it into a 50% prediction gamble.

A less common hard counter is Venusaur. It can't be seeded or poisoned and has sleep powder to cripple your switch-in.

All the counters you listed can be crippled by stun spore as they switch in. That's why I think that clefable is overall the best counter. The only thing clefable really cares about is encore. But clefable isn't stupid, she'll just keep spamming s-toss or ice beam, and erufuun will eventually be forced to switch.

 

[masterful]

All the counters you listed can be crippled by stun spore as they switch in. That's why I think that clefable is overall the best counter. The only thing clefable really cares about is encore. But clefable isn't stupid, she'll just keep spamming s-toss or ice beam, and erufuun will eventually be forced to switch.

Clefable is arguably effected by paralyzation just as much as Scizor. That is, essentially not at all. Besides a 25% of parahax, neither Scizor nor Clefable is really harmed by paralyzation, as Scizor isn't outspeeding anything with its common sets.

 

[lmitchell0012]

Clefable is arguably effected by paralyzation just as much as Scizor. That is, essentially not at all. Besides a 25% of parahax, neither Scizor nor Clefable is really harmed by paralyzation, as Scizor isn't outspeeding anything with its common sets.

Clefable can also run a toxic/flame orb, to avoid paralysis. You lose leftovers, but avoiding paralysis is important. Since she gets wish and softboiled, it isn't a huge loss overall.

 

[XienZo]

All the counters you listed can be crippled by stun spore as they switch in. That's why I think that clefable is overall the best counter. The only thing clefable really cares about is encore. But clefable isn't stupid, she'll just keep spamming s-toss or ice beam, and erufuun will eventually be forced to switch.

Uh, Nattorei/Reuniclus/Scizor care that much about paralysis? Avoiding paralysis isn't important at all if you don't even use your speed stat...

 

[Green Mage]

In response to you saying that Nattorei can't really do anything to Erufuun - Gyro Ball does massive damage unless you run Cotton Guard.

Wrong. Gyro ball does pitiful damage to erufuun. Gyro Ball's damage is calculated by your speed stat, and erufuun's 'speed' is given to it by its ability. Erufuun has no need for its speed stat so it bolsters its defenses instead.

All the counters you listed can be crippled by stun spore as they switch in. That's why I think that clefable is overall the best counter. The only thing clefable really cares about is encore. But clefable isn't stupid, she'll just keep spamming s-toss or ice beam, and erufuun will eventually be forced to switch.

Um...scizor, reuniclus and nattorei are not only completely unaffected by paralysis (apart from the small chance of hax) but almost benefit from it due to its prevention of other status and raising gyro ball's power in nattorei's case.

 

[lmitchell0012]

Uh, Nattorei/Reuniclus/Scizor care that much about paralysis? Avoiding paralysis isn't important at all if you don't even use your speed stat...

Erufuun will just keep substitute stalling. Eventually, you'll get the para-hax and then erufuun will set up on you even more.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

Erufuun gets five subs with leftovers.

What would it set up? Seed doesn't affect nat and Reuniclus, and scizor will just turn out of the matchup

Those are as good as counters get

 

[Sensei_Bobbilytus]

I would absolutely love to know why Ferrothorn/Nattorei is a good counter? By the time he hits the field, your job is over and done with; you should be tapping it with a U-turn and throwing out Shandalure or whatever. The only real counter to Whimsicott is anything with a decent attack that requires no encorable set-up; hell, anything with Ice-Shard or Icicle Spear is good enough.

 

[Lady Shinki]

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef
Relaxed (0 Spe) / Mischievous Heart

Leech Seed/Taunt/Encore
Memento
Sunny Day/Tailwind
Taunt/Encore/U-turn

All-out support erufuun. Memento is arguably more important than taunt/encore to prevent sweepers from going through you. Sunny Day clears weather, and this can be a nice secondary weather setter for a sun team. Tailwind lets him do a similar thing for sand teams and offense in general. Leech Seed is standard, but he doesn't really need it, I guess. If it's relaxed with a 0 spe IV, it avoids being 2hko'ed by natt's gyro ball after SR, and it doesn't have any normal-priority moves, so it doesn't need speed.

 

[XienZo]

Erufuun will just keep substitute stalling. Eventually, you'll get the para-hax and then erufuun will set up on you even more.

Set up with... what? If anything, the other pokes are going to set up on Erufuun...

I would absolutely love to know why Ferrothorn/Nattorei is a good counter? By the time he hits the field, your job is over and done with; you should be tapping it with a U-turn and throwing out Shandalure or whatever. The only real counter to Whimsicott is anything with a decent attack that requires no encorable set-up; hell, anything with Ice-Shard or Icicle Spear is good enough.

Because the whole point of the counter is to force the opponent to switch out? (Whether you get owned by the incoming Chandelure is another problem, but that's outside of forcing out Erufuun.)

 

[PlatinumDude]

Set up with... what? If anything, the other pokes are going to set up on Erufuun...

Usually, Whimsicott sets up Leech Seed once it paralyzes something with Stun Spore. But as stated above, Reuniclus and Ferrothorn don't care about it. It also can set up Encore on a set-up move if given the chance.