WishiWashi Discussion

Could Shell Bell actually be viable on this thing?

Super low Speed and base HP, but super strong defenses and offenses kinda make the items purpose more effective.
 
Could Shell Bell actually be viable on this thing?

Super low Speed and base HP, but super strong defenses and offenses kinda make the items purpose more effective.
Unfortunately once it hits below 50% it's piss weak, and shell bell isn't going to be doing anything for it.
 
Wishiwashi @ Leftovers
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
-Tearful Look
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Earthquake

What about maximizing defenses, then using tearful look to lower both attack stats of the opponent, then clean up with respectable base mixed attacks?
 
Wishiwashi @ Leftovers
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
-Tearful Look
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Earthquake

What about maximizing defenses, then using tearful look to lower both attack stats of the opponent, then clean up with respectable base mixed attacks?
More efficient to boost HP when its defenses are that high. I'd say max HP then split the remaining EV's between both attacking stats. Also, not too sure how good Tearful Look will be. Most stat lowering moves aren't that viable.
 
Oh my bad, but still I'd imagine Leftovers, Sitrus, or Chesto Berry(Rest) would just be better items. Shell Bell is so weak.
Sitrus would be the item of choice if you're not running RestTalk, I'd imagine, so that when it hits 25% health it goes right back up. In fact, has anyone tested which one procs 1st? Sitrus or Schooling?
Seriously though, Rest + Sleep Talk is the only set that I see having some potential.
 
I was a bit underwhelmed by WishiWashi at first, but I ended up really loving it.

The transformation between Normal/School form only happens during the end of the turn. This means: 1) You're able to attack with full power even after your opponent dropsyou below 25% HP and 2) This represents a problem for a Rest + Sleep Talk set because you're susceptible to attacks in your weak form after falling asleep until the end of the turn. Sitrus Berry for an offensive set or Leftovers + Protect for a defensive one seem a lot better as a result:

WishiWashi @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Ice Beam
-U-Turn

WishiWashi @ Leftovers
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
-Surf
-Earthquake
-Ice Beam
-Protect

I've highlighted the differences between the two sets.

No matter which set, 252 EVs in HP is a must to fully benefit from WishiWashi's great defenses in addition to your held item (Sitrus Berry or Leftovers). The first set greatly benefits from [the opponent's] Trick Room. On the second set, you could swap the EVs in Defense and SDef and slap a Sassy nature on it to make it more specially defensive.
 
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November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
is a Contributor Alumnus
252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Scald vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 246-291 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Clefable: 339-399 (86.2 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 348-412 (98.8 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Scald vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Heatran: 332-392 (86 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 188+ SpD Heatran: 456-536 (118.1 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Ice Beam vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 272-322 (85.2 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Lopunny: 235-277 (86.7 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 214-254 (70.6 - 83.8%)

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Scald vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 254-302 (63 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 180 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 350-414 (86.8 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Scald vs. 252 HP / 144+ SpD Mega Sableye: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 160-189 (24.9 - 29.4%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Amoonguss: 368-434 (85.3 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Wishiwashi Scald vs. 248 HP / 180+ SpD Zapdos: 187-222 (48.8 - 57.9%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Wall of calcs. It's the strongest Water-type in the tier, by raw offensive stats. Most of the tier isn't going to like switching into it.
 
Isn't Z-Mist outclassed by Chesto Rest? Both require a hold item, and the latter also heals status.

I think it's best to focus on Wishiwashi's offenses and leave the healing to teammates. Sitrus Berry will probably be decent, but it needs its coverage.
Yeah, you're probably right there. One good thing about a Z-Crystal though is that it can't be knocked off.

So, question. I know Wishiwashi has to basically be mixed but is it better suited to being mostly special (for powerful hydro pumps and ice beams) or mostly physical (for waterfall, earthquake and u-turn)? I am just not sure which nature I want get in game, either brave or quiet.
 
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Yeah, you're probably right there. One good thing about a Z-Crystal though is that it can't be knocked off.

So, question. I know Wishiwashi has to basically be mixed but is it better suited to being mostly special (for powerful hydro pumps and ice beams) or mostly physical (for waterfall, earthquake and u-turn)? I am just not sure which nature I want get in game, either brave or quiet.
special is almost certainly better, you really want the power from hydro pump especially given how much people are talking about running lefties, sitrus and other non boosting items. Aqua tail or waterfall coming from 140 attack without a boosting item really isn't particularly strong, and strength is literally the only reason to use this thing. Not to mention that water + ice coverage is better than water + ground. I'd run quiet with hydro pump/ice beam/eq/u-turn. Maybe an HP over eq if you're using specs.
 
special is almost certainly better, you really want the power from hydro pump especially given how much people are talking about running lefties, sitrus and other non boosting items. Aqua tail or waterfall coming from 140 attack without a boosting item really isn't particularly strong, and strength is literally the only reason to use this thing. Not to mention that water + ice coverage is better than water + ground. I'd run quiet with hydro pump/ice beam/eq/u-turn. Maybe an HP over eq if you're using specs.
Yep, thanks for that. It really helps to have other people give their opinions on this stuff.

Wishiwashi @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Schooling
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Honestly I think a Rest Talk set is Wishi's best bet.

Wishiwashi @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Attack or SpA / 4 Def
Adamant/Modest
- Scald / Waterfall
- Ice Beam / Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Maxed out HP plus those natural defenses means Wishi is really bulky. Mono water typing is great for a being able to comfortably sponge up all kinds of neutral hits. With maxed out attacking stats, it hits pretty hard, and rest talk keeps it from turning into Sunkren. Choose if you wanna be walled by water types or grass types.

Or you could just max out a single defensive stat and be a classic "bulky water", relying on your base stats to deal damage. I mean come on 130/135 defenses and 140/140 offenses? There's gotta be a use for that, rest-talk should solve the schooling problem.
 
Here's an idea since you can't do much about his speed lets reduces it's Speed EV's to 0 and boost up it's HP to the max and have it run Aqua Ring and make it a Bulky Slow Special Attacker? Or Max out his Defense or SP Defense. Whichever is the best.

I realized that until 25% he's almost like a slightly less defensive Shuckle.
 
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Sitrus would be the item of choice if you're not running RestTalk, I'd imagine, so that when it hits 25% health it goes right back up. In fact, has anyone tested which one procs 1st? Sitrus or Schooling?
Seriously though, Rest + Sleep Talk is the only set that I see having some potential.
Doesn't matter which applies first, since Schooling has actually been shown to bring the school form back if HP rises above 25% via any kind of healing. Sitrus berry is objectively the ideal item for it
 
Doesn't matter which applies first, since Schooling has actually been shown to bring the school form back if HP rises above 25% via any kind of healing. Sitrus berry is objectively the ideal item for it
Yeah, but not on the same turn from what I've seen. So if my logic had any ground, if Schooling proc'd before Sitrus did then Wishiwashi would've to survive a whole turn without the extra bulk that is provided by the School form, and we know that's not happening. Plus, even if it did pull that off, it'd hit like a wet noodle the following turn before reverting back into its School Form.

But, we know Schooling doesn't activate til the end of the turn now and therefore Sitrus comes 1st 100% of the time anyways.
 
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So Wishiwashi has 294 HP. If you give it assault vest and bring a physically defensive wish passer, you can fill up the tank occasionally to keep the beast running. Let's see who fits best:<br />
Jirachi: 202 HP wish
Audino: 205 HP wish
Chansey: 321 HP FULL HEAL!
 
Wish Sitrus Berry, Wishiwashi gets essentially 100% of its HP, slightly more if you count that it can be knocked below 50%, eat berry, be knocked below 25%, and get 1 more attack off on that turn before turning into a goldfish cracker. It has 294 with respect to being OHKOd, but it has 367 for 2HKO and above, which puts its effective HP stat at approximately 80. This is definitely the best item if you plan on only using it once, unless you've determined band/specs to be important for some breakpoint.

However, if you have healing on your team via wish, healing wish, or something else, it seems more effective to give him an assault vest and use him as a special-bulky pivot.

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Wishiwashi: 86-101 (29.2 - 34.3%) -- 3.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Wishiwashi: 116-138 (39.4 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You're not going to want to switch it into a physical attacker, but switch it into a resisted special attack or bring it in after a KO and you can use a slow, decent-power U-turn to gain some momentum, or threaten with Ice Beam, Earthquake, and the STAB of your choice.

It doesn't look at all to be a threat without something like Speed Swap in VGC, but it can function on a team against some big threats. With 60 defense EVs it can survive Garchomp's +2 Earthquake (not Outrage) and OHKO with Ice Beam.
 
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Could Shell Bell actually be viable on this thing?

Super low Speed and base HP, but super strong defenses and offenses kinda make the items purpose more effective.
I would say shell bell could be useful. Especially in doubles with oranguru. I don't remember if shell bell restores 1/8 of max hp after every attack or 1/8 damage done as hp. Either way its more than leftovers since it only does 1/16, and if your running an offensive sweeper then this would be better. Using instruct in doubles would also allow double healing in one turn.
 
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Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Protect + Leftovers seems like a decent option on this if you want to stay in your Schooling Forme. It also lets you burn the turn you have to stay in your weak forme if you'll recover past 25% after Leftovers + Protect.

Ultimately though, I don't think this thing will be very good in OU at least. It is strong as hell but its low HP and Speed make it a sitting duck.
 
What about giving it leftovers and have him run protect and aqua ring And Max out his HP EVs and since his speed is poor just reduce it to the max. Making it a tank.

After all it is almost like a Shuckle.
 

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