Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Maestro Arena]

What about Mega-Blastoise?

I think it should be in the list, in B- or C rank. Is a bulky spinner with 120 and 115 in defenses, and it can hit Aegislash and other ghosts hard thank to its 135 Special Attack combined with Mega-Launcher, turning it into a bulky offensive spinner which can resist hits well and give support to the team, together with a nice offensive movepool with new toys like Dark Pulse or Aura Sphere. A move which has thanks to Mega-Launcher the same power as Surf but with a 20% of confusing is good too.

Also, Alakazam has been mentionated but isn't in the list o_O

 

[Tyrant laharl]

I don't see the point of using aegi without kings shield..... Wall breaking pivot role doesn't sound suited to aegislash's strengths, and a variety of other mons can do it better.

Besides this whole conversation is irrelevant anyway -_- aegislash is obvious S rank :/

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

So I assume the viability for mega Pokemon includes the opportunity cost for using up the mega slot? Because we have a whopping six mega forms up there and one or two of them are going to get banned.

 

[AOPSUser]

Mixed sets absolutely need kings shield, otherwise youre basically forced out EVERYTIME you attack. With kings shield not even stab se moves are capable of scaring aegislash away, its just that bulky and needs to abuse the ability to change formes in order to be truly threatening. Secret sword is pointless, you arent getting past heatran so dont bother.

The mixed attacker set we're referring to is a wallbreaker and pivot. Sacred Sword catches Normal-types on the switch if you can predict the switch. Sacred Sword and Shadow Sneak will kill Heatran if you predict the switch.

I don't see the point of using aegi without kings shield..... Wall breaking pivot role doesn't sound suited to aegislash's strengths, and a variety of other mons can do it better.

Besides this whole conversation is irrelevant anyway -_- aegislash is obvious S rank :/

That's weird, because C&C acknowledges that set as one of the best wallbreakers in OU. Besides, it's got so many different sets that it's really impossible to hard counter.

Aegislash can be a bulky sweeper, speed boosting sweeper, wallbreaker, bulky attacker, and even Double Dancer all at once. That's pretty darn versatile.

 

[Tyrant laharl]

What about Mega-Blastoise?

I think it should be in the list, in B- or C rank. Is a bulky spinner with 120 and 115 in defenses, and it can hit Aegislash and other ghosts hard thank to its 135 Special Attack combined with Mega-Launcher, turning it into a bulky offensive spinner which can resist hits well and give support to the team, together with a nice offensive movepool with new toys like Dark Pulse or Aura Sphere. A move which has thanks to Mega-Launcher the same power as Surf but with a 20% of confusing is good too.

Also, Alakazam has been mentionated but isn't in the list o_O

Personally I think mega blastoise is even better than that :0 . A spinner with the ability to heavily dent every spin blocker with a pseudo stab dark pulse off of 135 sp. attk is simply amazing.

 

[Hidious]

I don't see the point of using aegi without kings shield..... Wall breaking pivot role doesn't sound suited to aegislash's strengths, and a variety of other mons can do it better.

Besides this whole conversation is irrelevant anyway -_- aegislash is obvious S rank :/

Aegislash has a ton of resistances and 3 immunities, is resistant to stealth rock, has insane defensive stats, and can hit back with insane offensive stats with perfect coverage.

If aegislash isn't perfect for a bulky pivot wallbreaker, I don't know what is

 

[Tyrant laharl]

Aegislash has a ton of resistances and 3 immunities, is resistant to stealth rock, has insane defensive stats, and can hit back with insane offensive stats with perfect coverage.

If aegislash isn't perfect for a bulky pivot wallbreaker, I don't know what is

That's a very well thought
Out, and valid point. However, I'm curious how this is helping the thread in any shape or form?

 

[Antonius the Great]

This is my first time posting on this site go easy on me...
I have a few Pokes I'd like to see ranked, they've each served me well:

Florges for C Rank
Florges is bulky on the Special side, and her base Special Attack is pretty high for a defensive mon. This along with her access to support moves such as Wish and Misty Terrain could make her seem awesome, but her flaws definitely outweigh her perks. First of all, her physical bulk is just awful, Scizor or Metagross can easily come in and revenge kill her with Bullet Punch while she can't do anything back. She also has low HP for a Wish Passer, so she gets way outclassed by Sylveon that can do just about everything she can do, just better. The only perceivable way Sylveon isn't better is because Florges gets Aromatherapy, while Sylveon would have to wait for a Pokebank Eevee to be available for Heal Bell. Florges' last thing, which is what kills her the most to me, is that her abilities are completely useless in single battles (not to mention situational in Doubles). Without being able to abuse her abilities, she doesn't have a lot going for her, so Sylveon would always be a better choice, unless you really need a Fairy cleric, which is the only reason I ever used it.

Hippowdon for A Rank
Hippowdon got an awesome bonus this gen that increases his walling capabilities to me. Trapping moves were buffed, so he can essentially trap a grounded physical attacker with Sand Tomb, and the damage from that combined with Sand Stream damage earns a KO after just a few turns. He also has a great Attack stat, meaning he can do good direct damage if needed, and he gets reliable recovery in Slack Off, making him pretty hard to take down. He does, however, have his counters, notably BellyJet Azumarill, but he hasn't fallen from his fame acquired from previous gens as he still functions nicely in OU.

Quagsire for B Rank
Quagsire is so often overlooked, but he's very impressive. He is a very effective counter to sweepers that try setting up with Swords or Dragon Dance, notably Talonflame. Once he's in on these attackers, they usually try to set up more, a turn which can be used to attempt a burn (Scald) or trap them in with Infestation, which ends up being their downfall. He gets reliable recovery from Recover, so he stays alive for a long time if played correctly, and he has a very good movepool, which includes Yawn, Encore, Stockpile (amazing with Unaware), and even Haze. His downfall would be his bad special bulk and 4x weakness to Grass, making him easily phazed out by Grass-types and Special Attackers, but he fills a very nice niche in OU regardless.

Klefki for A Rank
I was appalled to see my keys in B- territory... Klefki has such an amazing movepool to abuse Prankster with, which is why I love him. He gets Swagger + Foul Play, which is evil in itself, combined with Thunder Wave... He becomes a very annoying Pokemon to deal with in any Meta game. His really impressive niche, however, is his access to priority hazards. Prankster Spikes ensures that he can at the very least get one layer set up. He also got a cool signature move, like most Kalos Pokemon. Fairy Lock is just a trapping move like Mean Look, but he abuses it nicely because of his typing. If he traps in a wall, ie Blissey, they can't escape the Toxic and can easily be stalled out with the help of Heal Block. He also gets Dual Screens, allowing him to support Bulky Offense teams very well. He has a niche over other supporters, and thus he is very deserving of being A Rank.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

The mixed attacker set we're referring to is a wallbreaker and pivot. Sacred Sword catches Normal-types on the switch if you can predict the switch. Sacred Sword and Shadow Sneak will kill Heatran if you predict the switch.

Blissey is 2hkoed by iron head just as it is from sacred sword. Chansey only needs a little bit of prior damage to be 2hkoed (extremely likely since it doesnt have leftovers). Heatran is putting you at a gamble of whether to sacred sword the switch in, or shadow ball the thing that is on the field which is not worth going, specially when heatran can be easily handled by teammates. Keep in mind that you need 2 high rolls to actually ko heatran with secret secret sword+shadow sneak. Its just too situational while kings shield will always be useful.

 

[AOPSUser]

Blissey is 2hkoed by iron head just as it is from sacred sword. Chansey only needs a little bit of prior damage to be 2hkoed (extremely likely since it doesnt have leftovers). Heatran is putting you at a gamble of whether to sacred sword the switch in, or shadow ball the thing that is on the field which is not worth going, specially when heatran can be easily handled by teammates. Keep in mind that you need 2 high rolls to actually ko heatran with secret secret sword+shadow sneak. Its just too situational while kings will always be useful.

Sacred Sword does get perfect neutral coverage with Shadow Ball, hits a lot of Steel-types harder than Shadow Ball, mauls stuff like Bisharp if they try to switch in. If you really want to you can put Head Smash there for Mandibuzz, many people do already. King's Shield just isn't that useful on a pure wallbreaker, especially since status goes through it.

That's a very well thought
Out, and valid point. However, I'm curious how this is helping the thread in any shape or form?

This is about keeping Aegislash in S-Rank.

Quagsire: Yeah, it has Unaware and good defensive typing, but its stats are a giant letdown. Some setup sweepers are actually able to power through it, and if it faces a Mold Breaker mon (Haxorus), it's dead. It could potentially fit into B-rank, but almost every Choice Band or Specs mon can 2HKO it with a neutral move, as well as certain hard-hitting LO users, such as Greninja (Protean Grass Knot!), Aegislash, and Latios. I think B- or C rank would be fine for it.

Klefki: Prankster, great typing, dual screens, Foul Play, T-Wave, Torment, and niche moves like Swagger and Recycle. I don't see how this isn't at the very least B+, probably A.

Hippowdon: Ehhhhhhh. Water-type moves are still common in OU, and without Roar Hippowdon is almost helpless against setup sweepers. Sand Tomb is decent but not very good, since people will just switch to their counter, which is often Rotom-W. It's good, but it's not great, especially since Sand teams aren't really a thing anymore. B+ or A really, although I'm thinking more B+.

 

[Diablo]

BISHARP IN A
with the right switch in this pokémon can be really deadly:
125 base attack combined with good defense (100 base) and the excellent trait (defiant) allows this Pokémon to set a great pressure to the opponent and thanks to the trait sticky web, intimidate and similar Bisharp can exploit in its favor to increase his attack
also his true counter are very few (mandibuzz for example) and they can do little against him
Uh i forget another thing: his movepool, Knock Off really puts a lot of pressure to the his walls and suckerpunch is a good stab-priority.
AOPSUser sure, rotomw and other can give problems but not for this reason Bisharp must stay in B
and steel type don't resist by dark moves!!

 

[Cenoli]

Lol no I don't think so. Gengar doesn't have anything going for it other than the ability to run Disable. Gengar also doesn't hit hard enough, compared to Keldeo's Specs-boosted Hydro Pump, Latios' Draco Meteor or ZardY's sun boosted Fire Blast, all of which reside comfortably in A tier. Not to mention Gengar is laughably frail that a non-STAB Knock Off from a base 100 attack mon will kill it.

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 260-308 (99.2 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

hp gives azumarill 150 effective attack

 

[AOPSUser]

BISHARP IN A
with the right switch in this pokémon can be really deadly:
125 base attack combined with good defense (100 base) and the excellent trait (defiant) allows this Pokémon to set a great pressure to the opponent and thanks to the trait sticky web, intimidate and similar Bisharp can exploit in its favor to increase his attack
also his true counter are very few (mandibuzz for example) and they can do little against him

Sticky Web is uncommon, Intimidate only gives +1 Attack overall and Bisharp still isn't that intimidating (no pun intended) even then. Base 70 Speed is also atrocious, forcing it to rely on Sucker Punch if it wants to beat faster Pokemon, which is basically every offensive mon in OU (bar Aegislash). Defenses don't matter when it's weak to Fighting, a common coverage type, and Ground, an even more common coverage type, and Fire, which is on pretty much everything.

It's easy to wall Bisharp as well. Rotom-W outspeeds and uses Will-O-Wisp, bypassing Sucker Punch and destroying even a +2 Bisharp. Fast Pokemon like Gengar can Sub on a predicted Sucker Punch easily. Bisharp can't get past stuff like Klefki, Forretress, or Mega Venusaur either, and it needs Brick Break for Ferrothorn.

 

[Shiruba]

It's not really Sticky Web that makes Bisharp the "face" of HO this gen, tho - it's Defog's secondary effect of lowering evasiveness, which triggers the +2.

I don't think Bisharp is A material necessarily, but that looming threat means it can support your team by not being in battle in a sense - fearing the switch in to the Defog and having it wreck their team, which helps keep your hazards on the field, and it beats a good amount of common Defoggers, like the Eon duo, and Dark as a typing was buffed this gen. It's also the only fully-evolved Steel-type that still resists Dark and Ghost, which is cool.

 

[AmShowdownNoob]

This is my first time posting on this site go easy on me...
I have a few Pokes I'd like to see ranked, they've each served me well:

Hippowdon for A Rank
Hippowdon got an awesome bonus this gen that increases his walling capabilities to me. Trapping moves were buffed, so he can essentially trap a grounded physical attacker with Sand Tomb, and the damage from that combined with Sand Stream damage earns a KO after just a few turns. He also has a great Attack stat, meaning he can do good direct damage if needed, and he gets reliable recovery in Slack Off, making him pretty hard to take down. He does, however, have his counters, notably BellyJet Azumarill, but he hasn't fallen from his fame acquired from previous gens as he still functions nicely in OU.

Klefki for A Rank
I was appalled to see my keys in B- territory... Klefki has such an amazing movepool to abuse Prankster with, which is why I love him. He gets Swagger + Foul Play, which is evil in itself, combined with Thunder Wave... He becomes a very annoying Pokemon to deal with in any Meta game. His really impressive niche, however, is his access to priority hazards. Prankster Spikes ensures that he can at the very least get one layer set up. He also got a cool signature move, like most Kalos Pokemon. Fairy Lock is just a trapping move like Mean Look, but he abuses it nicely because of his typing. If he traps in a wall, ie Blissey, they can't escape the Toxic and can easily be stalled out with the help of Heal Block. He also gets Dual Screens, allowing him to support Bulky Offense teams very well. He has a niche over other supporters, and thus he is very deserving of being A Rank.

If sand didn't get nerfed then you'd have a point with Hippowdon but only 5 turns of sand damage + sand tomb for stall isn't going to cut it. Besides, what are you even going to trap? Most of the bulky walls that you want to trap have some way of healing. Can't touch Skarmory. Can't touch RotomW. Can't touch Ferrothorn. Ghost walls can't be trapped. Blissey/Chansey have recovery. Most Electric/fire types would simply switch out before you can even get Sand Tomb up. What you can trap are physical offensive pokemon, but most of them have some way of boosting. Unless you can list his viability, Hippowdon isn't going to A rank. B- at best, but probably C tier.

As for Klefki, I understand the B- rating. Might become B depending what sets become popular. I'm not familiar with any other sets besides T-wave/Swagger/Foul play/spikes/screens sets (any combination of those moves), so I can't say if it's worth a higher rank or lower, but B- is acceptable for these sets in particular. EQ and Fire weaknesses keep it in check I think, since it has to use T-wave or swagger 1st before doing much to an attacker.

As for Prankster users, I'm surprised Sableye isn't anywhere on the list. It's more common than klefki and actually has recovery and decent bulk, on top of being annoying with taunt/will-o combo, rendering hazard users useless. I think Sableye needs to get ranked. Perhaps B+ or A-. No matter what team I make, I always end up having a bit of trouble with it, not that it's necessarily dangerous, but it's annoying to take down, especially if the opponent has a specially bulky teammate they can switch in to whenever a threat comes in.

 

[KingJumby]

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but i have to say that umbreon has been an absolute beast on any team that i have used it on so far. It has extremely good defenses as well as wish/heal bell so it fulfills the role as cleric extremely well. Stab foul play is nothing to laugh at either, as with it umbreon beats pretty much any and every physical attacker that doesn't resist it. For the sake of brevity here is a list of common pokes that it can beat 1v1 (assuming that you run an umbreon with max def, which i do because abusing foul play is the best thing that it can do):

Charizard X, Aegislash, Non mega Garchomp (It beats mega after stealth rocks), Talonflame, Dragonite, Both latios and latias (the former if its not running specs, the latter... is more difficult for umbreon to beat but it CAN outstall it), Haxorus, Kyurem B...

Like i said, ANY physical attacker that doesn't resist foul play umbreon and doesnt have super effective on umbreon, it can beat simply because its strategy is taking the other pokes attack and using it against it, just with better defenses. Mandibuzz may seem to be better at using foul play due to its higher physical defenses, but stealth rocks, more weaknesses in general, and a lower special defense stat all need to be taken into account and in addition you have to remember that umbreon's primary role is as a cleric, unlike mandibuzz's role as a defogger (correct me i'm wrong here, i haven't used mandibuzz).

Also status'ing umbreon is a bad idea due to synchronize+heal bell. With less fighting types in general this gen, umbreon is actually a monster when it comes to taking on physical attackers. Also, even if it doesn't get to do any real damage with foul play or healing with wish, you can always use it to soak up damage and baton pass on your opponents predicted switch to their lucario or terrakion (if they have a justified user its pretty obvious who they will be switching to) Baton pass in general is just a really good move as it has the same advantages that voltturn has, just it doesn't do damage, which honestly is not that bad as in the example of volt switch, it doing damage can actually prevent you from using the move entirely (ground immunity.)

Really umbreon's biggest issue is its slight 4mss as you really want all of BatonPass, Wish, Foul Play, Heal Bell, and Protect, but you can only have 4, most of the time choosing between either protect or heal bell. I say it should be in B tier as it does check a very large amount of physical attackers, and can support the team very well, but can be setup bait for things that resist it (namely azumarill, one bad switch-in and... ouch.. Once again, i say that it would be best just bring it in to bait out lucario/azumarill and baton pass on their switch to get the switch initiative. So really just dont foul play if they have a lucario/terrakion/azumarill, but baton pass instead) IMO its an absolute beast if used correctly... But let me hear what you all think of umbreon as an anti-physical attacker / cleric.

 

[silenced]

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but i have to say that umbreon has been an absolute beast on any team that i have used it on so far. It has extremely good defenses as well as wish/heal bell so it fulfills the role as cleric extremely well. Stab foul play is nothing to laugh at either, as with it umbreon beats pretty much any and every physical attacker that doesn't resist it. For the sake of brevity here is a list of common pokes that it can beat 1v1 (assuming that you run an umbreon with max def, which i do because abusing foul play is the best thing that it can do): Charizard X, Aegislash, Non mega Garchomp (It beats mega after stealth rocks), Talonflame, Dragonite, Both latios and latias (the former if its not running specs, the latter... is more difficult for umbreon to beat but it CAN outstall it), Haxorus, Kyurem B... like i said, ANY physical attacker that doesn't resist foul play umbreon and doesnt have super effective on umbreon, it can beat simply because its strategy is taking the other pokes attack and using it against it, just with better defenses. Mandibuzz may seem to be better at using foul play due to its higher physical defenses, but stealth rocks, more weaknesses in general, and a lower special defense stat all need to be taken into account and in addition you have to remember that umbreon's primary role is as a cleric, unlike mandibuzz's role as a defogger (correct me i'm wrong here, i haven't used mandibuzz). Also status'ing umbreon is a bad idea due to synchronize+heal bell. With less fighting types in general this gen, umbreon is actually a monster when it comes to taking on physical attackers. Also, even if it doesn't get to do any real damage with foul play or healing with wish, you can always use it to soak up damage and baton pass on your opponents predicted switch to their lucario or terrakion (if they have a justified user its pretty obvious who they will be switching to) Baton pass in general is just a really good move as it has the same advantages that voltturn has, just it doesn't do damage, which honestly is not that bad as in the example of volt switch, it doing damage can actually prevent you from using the move entirely (ground immunity.) Really umbreon's biggest issue is its slight 4mss as you really want all of BatonPass, Wish, Foul Play, Heal Bell, and Protect, but you can only have 4, most of the time choosing between either protect or heal bell. I say it should be in B tier as it does check a very large amount of physical attackers, and can support the team very well, but can be setup bait for things that resist it (namely azumarill, one bad switch-in and... ouch.. Once again, i say that it would be best just bring it in to bait out lucario/azumarill and baton pass on their switch to get the switch initiative. So really just dont foul play if they have a lucario/terrakion/azumarill, but baton pass instead) IMO its an absolute beast if used correctly... But let me here what you all think of umbreon as an anti-physical attacker / cleric.

Please, if you can in future, split your post into paragraphs, that was really hard to read as is...

Anyway, as someone who's faced a lot of umbreon (albeit in 5th gen UU), Umbreon isn't quite good enough for B rank. Being set-up fodder for hazard setters means that defog/RS support is required unless you're being very smart with the double switch. You're also having difficulty tanking physical attacks when you're copping super-effective U-turns left right and centre, especially from genesect who is hitting you with STAB +1 U-turn, which really sucks. This decreases your overall walling potential when somewhat weak to volt-turn as you don't stay at full health too often, being forced to wish-protect more often (this is heavily taken advantage of I'm afraid) and as a result, not walling what you should.

Fighting types haven't exactly gone away either unfortunately. Mega-Lucario and terrakion are bad news for you as you've said but there's still plenty of others. Breloom hasn't quite vanished off the face of the earth (spore doesn't trigger synchronize either) and AV conkeldurr would be extremely happy to get a free switch in. Keldeo is still around too, though at least it can't really use justified to make you pay for foul play antics.

It's also major taunt bait, which is a huge issue for it, especially if the taunt user doesn't take huge damage from foul play, and there's a fair bit of taunt usage from S and A ranked pokemon listed.

With its wish passing, its somewhat outclassed by other wish clerics. Clefable, Chansey/blissey and even sylveon outclass it either due to better typing (being U-turn weak really hurts, and the dragon immunity is much nicer) or bigger wishes/tanking in general. And those pokemon aren't ranked too high to begin with themselves.

C-rank might be okay for it, as you do get full cleric support and synchronize has a few nice niches to disrupt certain status using pokemon if they're not careful (Rotom-W and Klefki come to mind here), but I really don't know...its not B-rank, that much I'm sure of.

 

[-Nitro-]

Personally I think mega blastoise is even better than that :0 . A spinner with the ability to heavily dent every spin blocker with a pseudo stab dark pulse off of 135 sp. attk is simply amazing.

Remember, however, that said spinner is susceptible to spikes, Toxic spikes, takes neutral SR damage, has no reliable recovery to mitigate said damage (not even lefties) and uses your mega slot.

Despite all this, I feel that Mea Blastoise is easily B rank by definition.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outclassed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

He definitely has a support niche in that he is a nearly unblockable rapid spinner, that can still punch holes in a lot of pokemon with his massive SpA and mega launcher, but does have flaws that I mentioned above, making his usage not S / A rank.

 

[Ojama]

Alright, after playing a ton of games on PS Ladder (+500 and I'm currently #1) I can finally give my thoughts about the viability ranking thread. I've tried as much threats as possible so I think I can give a quite good opinion about this.

S Rank:

- Genesect: no doubt here, Genesect is fantastic and terrifying.
- Mega-Lucario: same here, no need to say why.
- Aegislash: almost impossible to check/counter with an offensive Team.
- Mega-Venusaur: I am not 100% sure about this but we can all agree that Mega-Venusaur is really amazing and is at least A+ Rank anyway. The fact that it can check and counter a ton of things and can really hurt with its great SAtk is to me a good reason to put it S Rank.

Here are the only 4 Pokemon that deserve to be S Rank in my opinion. I disagree with Deoxys-S being S-Rank because I haven't found it really amazing, though it's still Deoxys-S I agree but with Aegislash and Defog on almost every Team this is very difficult for Deoxys-S to be S Rank I think.

Same for Rotom-W. Ok, Rotom-W is a fantastic Pokemon but it's not very complicated to weaken it. It can come on many things but only 1 or 2 times especially with Stealth Rock up. It's for sure A/A+ Rank, but definitely not S Rank in my opinion.

A+ Rank:

- Heatran
- Garchomp (Mega)
- Talonflamme
- Rotom-W
- Deoxys-S
- Mega-Charizard X
- Mega-Charizard Y: that thing is scary, like really. It has no real counter besides Chansey and Blissey. I was tempted to put it S Rank with Charizard X but the fact that they both need RSpin/Defog to work very well is a pretty big point.
- Latios: Lati@s are amazing, they are on almost every Team. With Defog and Psychock they are extremely useful. Their Speed and great double typing help a lot. Thunderbolt or Psychock take care of Fairy Pokemon. On top of that, they can CHECK Charizard Y which isn't nothing. Definitely A+ Rank
- Latias
- Manaphy
- Thundurus-I
- Mega-Pinsir: I'm sorry but that thing is just too good to not be A+. It's extremely powerful, gets a STAB'd priority move and has a really good bulk. It can destroy an entire Team, really. With Defog everywhere, setting up with Pinsir is very easy.
- Landorus-I: that thing is and will ever be amazing. The 4 Attacks Set with EPower / Psychic / FBlast / Sludge Wave is one of the best sweepers of the game and of the best stallbreakers. It destroys fairy Pkmn, Venusaur, everything.

A Rank:

- Terrakion: I disagree with Terrakion being A+ Rank I'm sorry. I don't really understand why it's A+ Rank because it's obviously less good than in BW2.
- Excadrill: almost A+ Rank to me...
- Greninja
- Deoxys-D
- Azumarill
- Keldeo
- Mamoswine: I am almost tempted to put it A+ Rank because Mamoswine is Giant. With Freeze Dry it's even better. Rotom-W is no longer a counter/check. It hurts a lot and revenge kills so many things... And the Ground STAB is so powerful and important. I'd even say A+ Rank.
- Gengar
- Landorus-T
- Mega-Mawile
- Bisharp: A freaking monster. With Defog everywhere and Knock Off being very strong, Bisharp is very very scary. I got destroyed by it a few times and god, it's absolutely fantastic. Gliscor and Conkeldurr are to me the only real counters atm.
- Tyranitar (Mega)
- Scizor (Mega)
- Dragonite
- Ferrothorn
- Kyurem-B
- Mega-Medicham: Do I really need to explain why?
- Gyarados (Mega): both are amazing, one can be a very good staller, the other one an amazing sweeper. Mega-Gyarados is very bulky and can even set up on Aegislash, yes. Rotom-W is destroyed thanks to Mold Breaker, so ya a very scary Pokemon. Definitely A-Rank. Thanks god Talonflamme exists.
- Conkeldurr: Assault Vest Conkeldurr is now one of the most useful Pokemon of the game. An amazing bulk, a great Atk, a STAB'd priority move for Bisharp and Lucario, access to Knock Off and elemental punches. Monstruous.
- Thundurus-T
- Gliscor: Gliscor is amazing and is still able to save our life. Access to Knock Off, amazing bulk, I don't see how this can't be A Rank.
- Chansey: 4ever
- Mandibuzz: It gets everything we want and has an amazing bulk. A top Pkmn atm.

B Rank (I personally don't think B+/B Rank is relevant):

- Clefable
- Florges
- Mega-Heracross:
- Zapdos
- Mega-Absol
- Skarmory
- Togekiss
- Goodra
- Trevanant
- Gourgeist
- Alakazam (Mega)
- Infernape
- Tentacruel
- Jellicent

 

[Magcargo]

ginganinja Here is a slightly more organized version of the OP. Hope it helps :)

Hide

PRELIMINARY XY OU Ranking tier list V.1

(Subject to change & in alphabetical order for now!)

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths. If there are suspects, they will come from this rank.

Aegislash

Deoxys-S

Genesect

Mega Lucario

Mega Venusaur

Rotom-W

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time

A+

Charizard(Mega-X):

Garchomp:

Heatran:

Manaphy:

Talonflame

Terrakion

Thundurus-I

A

Azumarill:

Charizard(Mega-Y):

Deoxys-D

Dragonite

Excadrill:

Ferrothorn

Gengar:

Greninja:

Keldeo:

Kyurem-B

Landorus-I:

Landorus-T:

Latias

Latios

Mawile(Mega):

Mega Pinsir

Scizor

Tyranitar:

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

B+

Clefable:

Gliscor

Goodra:

Gyarados:

Mandibuzz:

Mamoswine:

Skarmory

Togekiss
B

Absol(Mega):

Bisharp:

Conkeldurr:

Gourgeist-H:

Scolipede

Slowbro:

Sylveon

Trevenant

Zapdos

B-

Galvantula:

Klefki:

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.

C+

Diggersby:

Gourgeist-Small:
C

Ditto:

Forretress:

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then their worth the majority of the time.

Malamar

 

[KingJumby]

Please, if you can in future, split your post into paragraphs, that was really hard to read as is...

Anyway, as someone who's faced a lot of umbreon (albeit in 5th gen UU), Umbreon isn't quite good enough for B rank. Being set-up fodder for hazard setters means that defog/RS support is required unless you're being very smart with the double switch. You're also having difficulty tanking physical attacks when you're copping super-effective U-turns left right and centre, especially from genesect who is hitting you with STAB +1 U-turn, which really sucks. This decreases your overall walling potential when somewhat weak to volt-turn as you don't stay at full health too often, being forced to wish-protect more often (this is heavily taken advantage of I'm afraid) and as a result, not walling what you should.

Fighting types haven't exactly gone away either unfortunately. Mega-Lucario and terrakion are bad news for you as you've said but there's still plenty of others. Breloom hasn't quite vanished off the face of the earth (spore doesn't trigger synchronize either) and AV conkeldurr would be extremely happy to get a free switch in. Keldeo is still around too, though at least it can't really use justified to make you pay for foul play antics.

It's also major taunt bait, which is a huge issue for it, especially if the taunt user doesn't take huge damage from foul play, and there's a fair bit of taunt usage from S and A ranked pokemon listed.

With its wish passing, its somewhat outclassed by other wish clerics. Clefable, Chansey/blissey and even sylveon outclass it either due to better typing (being U-turn weak really hurts, and the dragon immunity is much nicer) or bigger wishes/tanking in general. And those pokemon aren't ranked too high to begin with themselves.

C-rank might be okay for it, as you do get full cleric support and synchronize has a few nice niches to disrupt certain status using pokemon if they're not careful (Rotom-W and Klefki come to mind here), but I really don't know...its not B-rank, that much I'm sure of.

hmm... all viable points. I would say that in comparison to sylveon as a wish passer i would prefer umbreon as it has a much higher def stat. Id say that umbreon fits better on teams that already have a fairy on them like say... azumarill or togekiss. It is true that fighting types have not gone away, i will give you that. Although a counter strategy could be to bait out their fighting type with umbreon.

Where it really shines though is its ability to take on almost any and every non-fighting type, non-bug, and non-azumarill, physical setup pokemon even after they've setup an SD or DD on your switch in. A counter to this though is bulk up sets, where it is dependent on the opposing pokemon whether umbreon can take it on.

It can be setup fodder, but at the same time id say that baton passing on a predicted switch to a setup pokemon is a very viable strategy. Also with pokemon like talonflame running around, most teams have a rapid spinner or defogger to begin with so thats not that big of an issue.

So my conclusion is that umbreon does have a very usable niche on teams where there is already another fairy on the team and that needs a physical wall/wish passer. I would honestly still put it in B tier as id say its on the same level as Sylveon as if you're going to run a wishpasser in such a offensive metagame, you want something with more even defenses. Eh... at least that's what i think.

 

[Ash Borer]

Gotta agree with Mega-MEdicham up there in the A ranking.

The fact that it simply demolishes every single defensive threat outside of irrelevant garbage like dusclops is terrifying.

 

[Josh Morales]

Gotta agree with Mega-MEdicham up there in the A ranking.

The fact that it simply demolishes every single defensive threat outside of irrelevant garbage like dusclops is terrifying.

Yeah, there's no reason Mega Mawile should be A rank and not Mega Medicham imo. Mega Medicham does pretty much the same but its more like glass cannon, being a lot faster and a lot more frail, while Mega Mawile is more like a tank.

 

[Tyrant laharl]

Yeah, there's no reason Mega Mawile should be A rank and not Mega Medicham imo. Mega Medicham does pretty much the same but its more like glass cannon, being a lot faster and a lot more frail, while Mega Mawile is more like a tank.

I highly agree with this. Mega mawile is great, but I find its speed lacking, and had to try a lot of things to patch that stat up. Mega Medicham on the other hand comes in and starts obliterating everything. Forget mega garchomp being a stallbreaker, mega Medicham is ridiculous, and definitely fits the category of an offensive a-ranking threat in my book.

 

[Strykeypoo]

- Mamoswine: I am almost tempted to put it A+ Rank because Mamoswine is Giant. With Freeze Dry it's even better. Rotom-W is no longer a counter/check. It hurts a lot and revenge kills so many things... And the Ground STAB is so powerful and important. I'd even say A+ Rank.

Could you expand on this a bit more? Particularly Freeze Dry:


0 SpA Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- 82.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 146-174 (48 - 57.2%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 158-188 (51.9 - 61.8%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

What EV spread are you running on Mamoswine in order to check Rotom-W? Heavy neutral nature max investment gets you the 2HKO with SR, while plus nature max investment gets you the easy 2HKO.

I had no idea that Mamoswine even got Freeze Dry, but I was considering advocating for him. Mamoswine is still one of the best leads in the game, especially for SR. Garchomp, Landorus or Landorus-T are also likely to be on nearly every team you face too. It's also one of the things that can beat Smeargle leads, as the 30% flinchrate of Icicle Crash means that you can stop it getting up hazards 30% of the time.