Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[alexwolf]

Here are the changes i would like to see happening:

Chesnaught: B- ---> B

Chesnaught check or counters many of the popular threats in OU, namely Aegislash, Bisharp, Garchomp, Landorus-T, Excadrill, (Mega) Tyranitar, (Mega) Gyarados, Mega Venusar, Dragonite, Conkeldurr, Terrakion, and Suicune. While those may not sound as much, especially considering how most of those Pokemon have their ways to get past Chesnaught (Toxic or SD Aegislash, Fire Blast or Sub Garchomp, Fire Blast Tyranitar, Hidden Power Fire Mega Venusaur, Dragonite if he predicts correcly when you will use Spiky Shield, and CB Terrakion, which can 2HKO Chesnaught with CC), it's Chesnaught's utility when it gets a free switch that make it great. After Chesnaught forces a switch, it either uses Spikes or Leech Seed. Spikes might have been nerfed, but they are still a great choice on teams that have a way to punish the common Defog users, such as Pursuit Bisharp / Aegislash (for Lati@s), Choice Band Tyranitar (Lati@s and Zapdos), Gothitelle (any Defog user outside of Lati@s basically), or Magnezone / Magneton (for Defog users found on stall teams, namely Mega Scizor and Skarmory). As for Leech Seed, it is a great way to wear down offensive checks and counters, and when combined with SR and Spiky Shield damage, adds up very quickly, while also making it easier for teammates to switch in, thanks to the additional healing. So, all in all, Chesnaught checks some key threats which are some of the most dangerous offensive Pokemon in OU (Mega Tyranitar, Aegislash, and Bisharp), and provides a lot of team support. However, it is weak to many common Pokemon, even more than it checks or walls actually, and needs support in order for Spikes to be effective, which is why it shouldn't be ranked any higher than B rank. If you check the Pokemon found in B rank atm, most of them have the same overall utility as Chesnaught (be it offensive, defensive, or supportive), and most of them need quite a bit of support to fit on a team, but all of them are very effective when given this support.

Goodra: B- ---> C+

Most reasons for this change have already been mentioned. Easy to wear down and overhwhelm and easy to check / wall, making it a very mediocre special tank in general. However, it's a pretty decent Pokemon in rain, when it can use Hydration + Rest for reliable recovery, so it can actually act as a reliable check to most special attackers, but it needs a lot of support to work, and most rain teams prefer taking the offensive route, where Goodra doesn't really fit.

Jellicent: B- ---> D

Honestly, i see no reason to use Jellicent. It can't protect your hazards anymore, and it isn't even a good spinblocker, as offensive Excadrill can get past it with SR up. Furthermore, it hardy checks any Pokemon out of S and A ranks, while being weak to a ton of Pokemon that reside in those ranks. It's not even good at stallbreaking, as Mega Venusaur, Magic Guard Clefable, Mega Charizard X, SpD Heatran, and Aegislash can counter it or force it out, and one of them is almost always found on such teams. It still has a unique combination of traits (Water / Ghost + Recover + WoW + Taunt + Water Absorb), it's just that this combination is not really needed in OU right now. I wouldn't say it's completely unviable though, which is why i am proposing it for D rank.

Staraptor: B- ---> B

Bird spam is a very effective and finally a pretty popular strategy. Choice Band Staraptor, when combined with Talonflame and Mega Pinsir, can dismantle entire teams, which is why it deserves to be in B rank.

Aerodactyl (Mega): C+ ---> B-

I have talked many times about how underrated Mega Aerodactyl is, so i won't say much. Mega Aerodactyl is a great revenge killer and cleaner, which unlike Deoxys-S, is hard to wall and checks some dangerous Pokemon, such as Talonflame, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Pinsir, and Diggersby. Its biggest flaws are competition with other revenge killers and MEvos, but it has enough advantages to make up for this.

Tangrowth: C+ ---> B-

Another Pokemon i have defended multiple times in the past. Assault Vest Tangrowth just checks so much shit right now, and for a defensive Pokemon, it's not easy to switch into either, except from MEvos, which unfortunately are everywhere. Still, with the proper support, it works great, as it covers so much stuff in just one slot and just never dies.

EDIT: Oh, and i also agree with Weavile and Gothitelle for B- rank. Finally, wtf people, why so much Infernape talk when we are talking about B- and C+ Pokemon? Deleting any post talking about Infernape.

 

[Talpr0ne]

I'm surprised to see that Umbreon is unranked in the OP. I'd like to propose adding Umbreon to C+ as it does check a lot of special and mixed attackers such as the CRUMBLER due to it's Dark typing having some helpful resists over it's Fairy type counterpart: Sylveon. Yes as a special wall/cleric it's role is partially outclassed by it (which is why C+ fits it), but it's typing gives it some helpful resists to Dark and Ghost giving it a niche over Sylveon. It may not have a powerful STAB in Pixilate Hyper Voice, but it does have the pseudo-buffed Foul Play in its arsenal to check some powerful physical threats. It's basically a Sylveon with better physical bulk and a different set of nice resists. It does have some bad weaknesses to fighting attacks and U-Turn, but its better physical bulk at the very least can let it tank some U-Turns so it isn't that much of an issue.

Js Sylveon resists Dark too(but not Ghost).

 

[dumbguyfin]

Why is kyurem still C+? Its outclassed by Kyu-b in almost all match ups, with the only exception being gyro ball ferro (who is much less common this gen anyways). Kyurem should be C- at most. It was bad last gen, and it lost its only niche (hail blizzard spam) and fairies like Azumarill completely wall it.

alexwolf EDIT: Removed Infernape mentions, as regular Kyurem and Inferanpe are completely different Pokemon that can't be compared.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Why is kyurem still C+? Its outclassed by Kyu-b in almost all match ups, with the only exception being gyro ball ferro (who is much less common this gen anyways). Kyurem should be C- at most. It was bad last gen, and it lost its only niche (hail blizzard spam) and fairies like Azumarill completely wall it.

The SubRoost set still has a niche due to Pressure and excellent neutral coverage. Azumarill is 3HKO'd without SR by Earth Power, so it can only force Kyurem out once. Next time it comes in on a Sub it's getting KO'd. Specially defensive Togekiss gets 2HKO'd by Ice Beam. Same with Mega Mawile, but then with Earth Power. The only relevant Fairy-type that walls Kyurem is Sylveon (Hyper Voice passing through Subs helps a lot as well). Aside from that, not many pokes want to come in on Kyurem. Even Chansey gets PP stalled because it can't break the Sub in one hit.

If anything C+ is kinda low imo. It's something that can do a lot of damage to unprepared teams, which in practice is most teams on the ladder just because it's not that common.

 

[Red Cat]

In an effort to change topics, id like to nominate Rotom-H to B rank.

At the moment he resides in B-, which I believe is a slight disservice. With the ability so absorb two different status, around eight useful resistances, an immunity from one of the most common coverage moves in game alongside great STABs, I believe he has the capabilities to be B.

He runs the majority of the same sets as Rotom-W, with two weaknesses instead of one. He himself can chafing a large number of threats and can have semi reliable recovery in PainSplit yet he does come with a few sad flaws, mainly he lacks a reliable Fire STAB to abuse as Overheat will almost ensure him switching out, yet Volt Switch mitigates that somewhat. He also suffers from two very common weaknesses in Rock and Water, with the former being a given on stuff with Earthquake in most cases.

Even through that though, I believe he should be moved up to B ranking at least.

I'll second this. Rotom-H is a nice hybrid between Rotom-W and Heatran. It is better than Rotom-W against Thundurus, Mega Pinsir, Mega Mawile, and Mega Manectric to name a few. The SR weakness sucks, but it is really good defensively otherwise. I think B is a good place for it.

 

[AA-j]

I would like to nominate Lucario to B/B+ or maybe even A-(unlikely).It still runs a very threatening SD set,and it's still among the most deadly sweepers in the meta.One of the major selling points of Lucario is that whatever switches in to a CC is likely going to be finished off by a follow-up ESpeed.What keeps it down from A,A+,and S are the fact it has 4MSS and it is slow for a sweeper.Another selling point for Lucario is the fact its awkward base 90 speed allows it to run adamant,so it has more power behind its attacks.

 

[RufflesPro]

I would like to nominate Lucario to B/B+ or maybe even A-(unlikely).It still runs a very threatening SD set,and it's still among the most deadly sweepers in the meta.One of the major selling points of Lucario is that whatever switches in to a CC is likely going to be finished off by a follow-up ESpeed.What keeps it down from A,A+,and S are the fact it has 4MSS and it is slow for a sweeper.Another selling point for Lucario is the fact its awkward base 90 speed allows it to run adamant,so it has more power behind its attacks.

I think even B+ is pushing it too far for Lucario. I definitely agree about bumping it but B is perfect for it because even though it has ES 90 speed is relatively low and it gets revenge killed easily.

 

[Max Carvalho]

Guys the metagame is slower now. It is bulkier and priority is in every single team. Lucario still doesnt have a good speed tier, but it does outspeeds a lot of mons and what makes him special is extreme speed, 4x resistance to stealth rock (a lot of sweepers would love having this) fantastic moovepool which actually gives him a little of 4MSS and both attack stats are very good. Its flaws are 70/70/70 defenses (which even with a steel type you can be easily killed) and speed. But lucario is very dangerous and with the right support it can devastaste teams. Lucario for B.

 

[alexwolf]

And i was sure i forgot something... Lucario for B+. A moveset of SD / Close Combat / Iron Tail / Extremespeed has very few counters, namely physically defensive Hippowdon (takes 76% damage minimum from +2 CC and is easy to overwhelm with multiple physical attacksers), Landorus-T, Aegislash, and physically defensive Zapdos. Iron Tail takes the slot where Ice Punch, Crunch, or Earthquake used to be because OHKOing Clefable, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur (after SR + Spikes) at +2 is just too good to pass up. Lucario basically can wreck both stall teams (fucks up the common Chansey / Clefable / Mega Venusaur / Skarmory stall core) and offensive teams if the proper preparations have been made, and not having to worry about Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Prankster Thunder Wave is a huge boon as well. I have found that he works best on Deo-D HO teams, where keeping up SR + Spikes is not hard at all, and having strong priority is invaluable, as well as a good check to Bisharp. Aegislash can be a real bitch to get rid of though...

 

[skies]

And i was sure i forgot something... Lucario for B+. A moveset of SD / Close Combat / Iron Tail / Extremespeed has very few counters, namely physically defensive Hippowdon (takes 76% damage minimum from +2 CC and is easy to overwhelm with multiple physical attacksers), Landorus-T, Aegislash, and physically defensive Zapdos. Iron Tail takes the slot where Ice Punch, Crunch, or Earthquake used to be because OHKOing Clefable, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur (after SR + Spikes), is just too good to pass up. Lucario basically can wreck both stall teams (fucks up the common Chansey / Clefable / Mega Venusaur / Skarmory stall core) and offensive teams if the proper preparations have been made, and not having to worry about Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Prankster Thunder Wave is a huge boon as well. I have found that he works best on Deo-D HO teams, where keeping up SR + Spikes is not hard at all, and having strong priority is invaluable, as well as a good check to Bisharp. Aegislash can be a real bitch to get rid of though...

Landorus-Therian can't switch directly into Lucario:
+1 252 Atk Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 169-199 (44.2 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
But it does rely on it not missing, so there is that.

 

[Ash Borer]

And i was sure i forgot something... Lucario for B+. A moveset of SD / Close Combat / Iron Tail / Extremespeed has very few counters, namely physically defensive Hippowdon (takes 76% damage minimum from +2 CC and is easy to overwhelm with multiple physical attacksers), Landorus-T, Aegislash, and physically defensive Zapdos. Iron Tail takes the slot where Ice Punch, Crunch, or Earthquake used to be because OHKOing Clefable, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur (after SR + Spikes), is just too good to pass up. Lucario basically can wreck both stall teams (fucks up the common Chansey / Clefable / Mega Venusaur / Skarmory stall core) and offensive teams if the proper preparations have been made, and not having to worry about Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Prankster Thunder Wave is a huge boon as well. I have found that he works best on Deo-D HO teams, where keeping up SR + Spikes is not hard at all, and having strong priority is invaluable, as well as a good check to Bisharp. Aegislash can be a real bitch to get rid of though...

I disagree! Bisharp's ability to pursuit trap aegislash is absolutely marvelous and is one of Lucario's best partners because of this! Other than that I strongly agree that extremespeed sweeping is super useful for dodging all that priority that offense uses to check threats. Luke is still good.

 

[Magcargo]

Landorus-Therian can't switch directly into Lucario:
+1 252 Atk Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 169-199 (44.2 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
But it does rely on it not missing, so there is that.

Landorus-T is switching the turn Lucario uses SD, not the turn where it already has the boost.

 

[alexwolf]

I disagree! Bisharp's ability to pursuit trap aegislash is absolutely marvelous and is one of Lucario's best partners because of this! Other than that I strongly agree that extremespeed sweeping is super useful for dodging all that priority tha offense uses to check threata.

Yeah, Bisharp is good to trap Aegislash, though Aegislash can mitigate its threat with either Substitute or Sacred Sword.

Also, using two frail Steel-types that are weak to Fighting, Ground, and Fire moves needs some heavy compensating with the right teammates to work.

 

[skies]

Landorus-T is switching the turn Lucario uses SD, not the turn where it already has the boost.

Oh, duh, complete oversight on my part.

 

[Max Carvalho]

Substitute can be a problem but most bisharp outspeed aegislash anyway so knock off is a better choice. Is really hard for aegis to beat bisharp.

 

[RufflesPro]

And i was sure i forgot something... Lucario for B+. A moveset of SD / Close Combat / Iron Tail / Extremespeed has very few counters, namely physically defensive Hippowdon (takes 76% damage minimum from +2 CC and is easy to overwhelm with multiple physical attacksers), Landorus-T, Aegislash, and physically defensive Zapdos. Iron Tail takes the slot where Ice Punch, Crunch, or Earthquake used to be because OHKOing Clefable, Azumarill, and Mega Venusaur (after SR + Spikes), is just too good to pass up. Lucario basically can wreck both stall teams (fucks up the common Chansey / Clefable / Mega Venusaur / Skarmory stall core) and offensive teams if the proper preparations have been made, and not having to worry about Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and Prankster Thunder Wave is a huge boon as well. I have found that he works best on Deo-D HO teams, where keeping up SR + Spikes is not hard at all, and having strong priority is invaluable, as well as a good check to Bisharp. Aegislash can be a real bitch to get rid of though...

+2 252 Atk Lucario Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 272-322 (83.9 - 99.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Stone Edge + Sash is also a good check for Talonflame and Mega Pinsir (If Mega Pinsir is at +2), Stone Edge without even sash also lets you check Mega Pinsir at +0, while also Char Y, furthermore Char X is also checked if at +0 with sash and EQ/Stone Edge + CC.

I honestly have never though about Iron Tail, It's a good move this generation but never took into account, honestly it's a great way for the physical Lucario to take the other STAB. Though ES goes through Talonlfame's BB, it will not OHKO even at +2. so a sash with CC + ES would kill.

I also want to say that Lucario is a fantastic Knock Off absorber that works great with Chansey, losing sash is irrelevant when you get hit (although Life Orb missing sucks) but you still geta free +1 boost, and better if the opponent switches because of pressure (like Bisharp) you can easily proceed to get at +3 and easily sweep the whole team possibly even without hazards supports.
It only sucks when Iron Tail misses lol.

 

[procrastinat]

As I stated on the earlier page, Lucario is outclassed as an independent sweeper, in that there are better are better pokemon to build your team around.

However, Lucario does function as very well as a partner for arguably the most dangerous sweeper in the tier at the moment, Mega-Pinsir, as Lucario can break Pinsir's
best checks and counters, including Skarmory, Rotom-W, and Talonflame due to it's Fighting STAB and +2 priority extremespeed.

However, while Lucario lacks the speed and power of other sweepers, it does not have such glaring weaknesses to hazards of the two most popular SDers, Pinsir and Talonflame. This makes it easier to fit into a team, as it does not require Defog/Spin support.
Finally, Lucario has the luxury of choosing what beats it, something other sweepers and their shallow movepools do not allow. Pinsir is always hard-walled by Skarm, while Talonflame has problems getting past rock types. Any Dragon struggles against either fairies or steels, even Zard-X struggles to get past the bulkier pokemon in the tier, like Azumarill or Tar w/o earthquake. Lucario can run Ice punch to get past Lando-T and gliscor, crunch to get Bulky Psychics and ghosts, bullet punch to get otherwise faster threats that Extremespeed, like Terrakion and Gengar or the (very) rare scarftar. It can even use earhquake to get Aegislash.

There are pokemon that are easier to set up, have stronger attacks, faster, and generally considered better overall, but Lucario has unique abilities as a sweeper that should not be ignored.

Lucario for B+.

 

[TheTraininator]

I know we have been talking about a lot of other things, but I would like to bring up the fact that Mega Alakazam is underrated as all hell.

The first thing nobody realizes about this thing is that it's so damn fast it can afford to run a Modest nature. After Modest nature, it has the equivalent of a base 197 Special Attack (higher than Mega Mewtwo-Y, since it runs Timid!) and in-between base 131 and 132 speed, (we'll call it 131.5 for now,) if it were a Timid natured Pokemon with the same stats. And yes, for those wondering, that means it simultaneously hits harder and is faster than Timid Life Orb Alakazam. That speed tier also allows it to outspeed some really important threats, most notably Greninja, but also including things such as +1 Mega Tyranitar, Tornadus-T, and Modest Scarf Politoed.

The second important thing to note about Mega Alakazam is Trace. Trace is an often overlooked ability due to its limited distribution and dependence on one's enemy to be effective, but it is a lot more useful than first meets the eye, as it can...

• Steal Protean from Greninja (it outspeeds it now too, remember)
• Switch into Heatran's Fire moves
• Steal Landorus-I's Sheer Force (boosting the power of Psychic, Shadow Ball, AND Focus Blast)
• Send Gyarados' and Landorus-T's Intimidates right back at them
• Steal Scizor's Technician, making not even maximally invested Assault Vest Scizor (who runs max investment on it anyway?) fully safe from HP Fire:

252+ SpA Technician Mega Alakazam Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Scizor: 300-356 (87.2 - 103.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 78-93 (30.9 - 36.9%) -- 66.5% chance to 3HKO​

• Steals Dragonite's Multiscale, making it an easier revenge kill:

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Mega Alakazam: 104-123 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO​

• Steals Excadrill's Sand Rush (making it outspeed him in sand)
• Steals Clefable's Magic Guard (who's outclassed now?)
• Steals Mamoswine's Thick Fat:

252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Alakazam: 76-91 (30.1 - 36.1%) -- 46.1% chance to 3HKO​

• Steals Skamory's Sturdy, meaning after it is killed off by 'Zam, it basically acts similarly to is Focus Sash non-mega counterpart

And these are just the A rank Pokemon. I was going to go down the B rank Pokemon, and believe me, it has a lot of useful abilities it can steal there too, (it can switch into Gliscor's Toxic, steal Slowbro's Regenerator, Scolipede's Speed Boost, etc.), but I didn't feel like doing extra work, since I already water 15 or so minutes making this post. I think I've proved my point.

I know it faces competition from regular Alakazam, but calling it outclassed and ineffective is ignorant. With all this information in mind...

WHY THE F*CK IS IT C+ RANK?

 

[Karxrida]

I know we have been talking about a lot of other things, but I would like to bring up the fact that Mega Alakazam is underrated as all hell.

The first thing nobody realizes about this thing is that it's so damn fast it can afford to run a Modest nature. After Modest nature, it has the equivalent of a base 197 Special Attack (higher than Mega Mewtwo-Y, since it runs Timid!) and in-between base 131 and 132 speed, (we'll call it 131.5 for now,) if it were a Timid natured Pokemon with the same stats. And yes, for those wondering, that means it simultaneously hits harder and is faster than Timid Life Orb Alakazam. That speed tier also allows it to outspeed some really important threats, most notably Greninja, but also including things such as +1 Mega Tyranitar, Tornadus-T, and Modest Scarf Politoed.

The second important thing to note about Mega Alakazam is Trace. Trace is an often overlooked ability due to its limited distribution and dependence on one's enemy to be effective, but it is a lot more useful than first meets the eye, as it can...

• Steal Protean from Greninja (it outspeeds it now too, remember)
• Switch into Heatran's Fire moves
• Steal Landorus-I's Sheer Force (boosting the power of Psychic, Shadow Ball, AND Focus Blast)
• Send Gyarados' and Landorus-T's Intimidates right back at them
• Steal Scizor's Technician, making not even maximally invested Assault Vest Scizor (who runs max investment on it anyway?) fully safe from HP Fire:

252+ SpA Technician Mega Alakazam Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Scizor: 300-356 (87.2 - 103.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Alakazam: 78-93 (30.9 - 36.9%) -- 66.5% chance to 3HKO​

• Steals Dragonite's Multiscale, making it an easier revenge kill:

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Mega Alakazam: 104-123 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO​

• Steals Excadrill's Sand Rush (making it outspeed him in sand)
• Steals Clefable's Magic Guard (who's outclassed now?)
• Steals Mamoswine's Thick Fat:

252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Alakazam: 76-91 (30.1 - 36.1%) -- 46.1% chance to 3HKO​

• Steals Skamory's Sturdy, meaning after it is killed off by 'Zam, it basically acts similarly to is Focus Sash non-mega counterpart

And these are just the A rank Pokemon. I was going to go down the B rank Pokemon, and believe me, it has a lot of useful abilities it can steal there too, (it can switch into Gliscor's Toxic, steal Slowbro's Regenerator, Scolipede's Speed Boost, etc.), but I didn't feel like doing extra work, since I already water 15 or so minutes making this post. I think I've proved my point.

I know it faces competition from regular Alakazam, but calling it outclassed and ineffective is ignorant. With all this information in mind...

WHY THE F*CK IS IT C+ RANK?

Because it's frail as fuck to priority or anything that survives a hit and has no Focus Sash.

 

[TheTraininator]

Because it's frail as fuck to priority or anything that survives a hit and has no Focus Sash.

So is Deoxys-A.

 

[Ash Borer]

train brings up something interesting. Zam stealing clefs magic guard is arse but stealing unaware is brilliant against a calm mind sweeper. Cm clef runs phys def so it takes a shitload from zams psychic and does barely anything back. I'd say its an underrated poke.

 

[Karxrida]

So is Deoxys-A.

Deoxys A can hold a Focus Sash.

 

[TheTraininator]

Deoxys A can hold a Focus Sash.

Touché. However, Zam has Magic Guard before Mega Evolving, meaning it can switch into hazards and the proceed to mega and copy Skarmory's Sturdy, acting as a sash. It can also stand up to priority depending on the ability it copies, as I listed in my previous post.

Keep in mind I'm not saying Mega Zam is perfect or a top-tier threat, it just is underrated and has enough positives that it can compete with its non mega counterpart and I think it should be higher than C+, even if it only advances to B- with regular Zam.

train brings up something interesting. Zam stealing clefs magic guard is arse but stealing unaware is brilliant against a calm mind sweeper. Cm clef runs phys def so it takes a shitload from zams psychic and does barely anything back. I'd say its an underrated poke.

Probably should've included that too. Whoops.

 

[LoDart210]

Great thing about lucario is the variety of boosting moves it has and a great movepool to go with each of them.

Swords dance - extreme speed, stone edge, earthquake, blaze kick, ice punch, bullet punch, close combat, iron tail, crunch, hi friggin jump kick, low sweep

Nasty plot - focus blast, aura sphere, psychic, shadow ball, dark pulse, flash cannon, dragon pulse, vacuum wave

And then there is agility if speed is really what you need and can afford to run an attack boosting nature along side life orb or expert belt.


He can go mixed with extreme speed.

Lucario is a versatile mon that is let down by sub par speed, and weak defenses.

However, it is a powerful offensive force whose usefulness (READ: viability) lies in his ability to boost and build just the right move set to glue your offenses together.

So basically, yeah, B+ sounds good.

 

[TheTraininator]

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention: I'm not sure why Mega Zam is sitting in C+ while Mega Gardevoir is B+. Is the Fairy typing really enough to separate the two that drastically? Mega Gardevoir suffers from the same piss poor physical bulk and priority weakness that Mega Alakazam does, but Mega Zam also hits harder and is faster and has Trace, so Mega Gardevoir only has the Fairy typing over it.