that is not true. gardevoir has the super stronk hyper voice that puts its offenses on par, it has superior utility options, and it has a neutrality rather than a weakness to sucker punch and knock off. garde can also pull off bulky spreads which zam has absolutely no business attempting. gardevoir is just much more versatile and has much better typing. ergo, the ranking difference.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 231-273 (60.1 - 71%)
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 262-309 (68.2 - 80.4%)
Mega Gardevoir gets a free LO boost on its main STAB attack, you know.
It also has Will-o-Wisp, which royally screws over a lot of possible counters like Scizor. Alakazam just has T-Wave. Gardevoir also has a decent amount of special bulk, enough to survive a weak or moderately powerful hit once or twice more than Mega Alakazam. And while it doesn't have Trace, base form Gardevoir does, and this can be abused in a lot of the same ways Mega Alakazam can (e.g. getting a burn on +3 Dragonite, assuming your traced Multiscale isn't broken.) It's way slower so it's not as good as a revenge killer or sweeper, but it has qualities that differentiate itself from Alakazam.
IMO Mega Alakazam's problem is that, while it has a sky high special attack, it's STABs are relatively low in power and it can't hold an item.
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 172-203 (38.7 - 45.7%)
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 174-205 (39.1 - 46.1%)
Its main STAB, when Modest, is only marginally stronger than LO Greninja's Hydro Pump.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 229-271 (51.5 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And it doesn't even compare to stronger special attackers.
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 169-200 (38 - 45%)
It's also not much more powerful than its base form's LO set, and the only thing it has over its base form is Trace and a higher speed tier (120 vs 132 (with modest)) and the number of things between those base speeds is pretty small (Greninja, and Talonflame who has priority anyway, as well as some +1's like Dragonite (around base 74 to 84 with neutral nature.)) However, Alakazam isn't going to have 150 base speed on the turn it mega evolves, and if I wanted an attacker that outspeeds everything I'd use Talonflame.
252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 174-205 (39.1 - 46.1%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 202-238 (45.4 - 53.6%)
And if I absolutely wanted to spend it on a Mega slot I'd use Aerodactyl, who has the coverage moves to guarantee an OHKO on a lot of top threats, as well as some bulk and better typing.
Really, the only reason I would want to use Mega Alakazam is to abuse Trace. Now, Trace is a super good ability, but I've personally never used Alakazam so I don't know how well it can use it in practice, so I don't disagree (or agree) that Mega Alakazam should be raised to B- or whatever.
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This is mainly because Mega Gardevoir faces no competition in its main role: a super strong special Fairy attacker; the other Fairy hard hitters are physically oriented. Mega Alakazam though has to face a fair amount of competition for 'fast Psychic-type attacker', which really isn't a role most Pokemon are squabbling over in the first place.
- Regular Alakazam's Focus Sash allows it to check most boosting sweepers, while Life Orb Alakazam can approach Mega Kazam's power while still being able to avoid passive damage and doesn't cost the Mega slot. Regular Kazam's ability to not reveal whether it is holding Sash or LO can also play mindgames with opponents, while Mega Kazam instantly gives away its vulnerability.
- Deoxys-S is significantly faster than Mega Kazam, fast enough to outrun Scarf Garchomp in fact. This means Mega Kazam's speed is no longer a great advantage. If that weren't enough, neutral-natured Deoxys-S's Life Orb minimum damage Psycho Boost hits harder than Modest Mega Kazam's max damage Psychic. In terms of both speed, coverage, and immediate damage, Deoxys-S has Mega Kazam beat, and can even perform a supporting role due to its access to hazards. Mega Kazam's only true perks over Deoxys-S are its constant power and the fun but situational Trace, but it doesn't seem worth the Mega slot.
- If a Psychic-type with wallbreaking abilities is wanted, Mew would likely be considered over Mega Kazam anyway. Sure, Kazam has much more power, but Mew's bulk allows it to set up Nasty Plot, then either break stuff apart with 3-move coverage, or it could Baton Pass the boosts to another teammate if it is weakened.
(P.S. For the same reasons that Azu and Mega Mawile do not compete with Mega Garde, I'm not going to list Mega Medicham or Swords Dance Mew(?). Lati@s are also Dragon-types first.)
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Damn, I have to admit, did not expect Gardevoir to hit harder than Mega Zam with Hyper Voice, that's impressive. And the fact that she gets Wisp is another good point. Still, the main difference between the two is that Mega Zam hits harder with the rest of his moveset and is much faster, while Garde has major issues with speed and fairy resists. Let's not also forget that while M-Garde has Trace in her base forme, M-Zam has Magic Guard, allowing him to switch into hazards and status before Mega Evolving. Trace abuse after Mega Evolution, as I showed in my first post, is what makes Mega Zam underrated to me, as it has soooo many abilities it can steal. Switch into Lando-I, and suddenly your Sheer Force boosted attacks destroy the tier. Switch into Greninja, and all your coverage moves now get STAB. Revenge kill a Skarm, and there's your damn sash you've been missing so much. He's not perfect by a long shot, but he at least deserves a B- rank in my eyes.
I want MegaZam to be good too, but it just doesn't hit quite hard enough.
But he's still a fun 'mon to use if you play him super gimmicky. Future Sight/Protect/Disable is hilarious. Scare out Mega Venusaur (trace Thick Fat for bulk lmao), Future Sight on the switch in. Protect next turn (and Disable their move if you want). Then bombard them with an attack + Future Sight on the same turn. Trololol.
But he's still a fun 'mon to use if you play him super gimmicky. Future Sight/Protect/Disable is hilarious. Scare out Mega Venusaur (trace Thick Fat for bulk lmao), Future Sight on the switch in. Protect next turn (and Disable their move if you want). Then bombard them with an attack + Future Sight on the same turn. Trololol.
This the same with Gardevoir before mega-evolving. She can trace stuff like Flash Fire from Heatran and set up a Substitute or Calm Mind and fire off a Focus Blast. You also seem to forget that sometimes mega Zam's ability is completely useless if you trace something like Pixilate. You often don't trace a good ability, making mega Zam's ability worthless half of the time. This is what a lot of mega's have over mega Zam, a reliable (and usually good) ability.
I don't know much about Ou atm but where would Haxorus be?
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
If salamence is around, I think haxorus should be in B-. That monster is very dangerous and faries dont hurt it too much, cause it can run poison jab and KO them. Acess to taunt, mold breaker to kill rotom-w (with a lum berry he can use dragon dance while dealing with the landromat!) massive attack stat, good moovepool and, after a dd or a sd, its very very very hard to counter (especially if you give him some bulk). He really should be ranked.
Yeah Haxorus could be ranked. Mold Breaker is a nice advantage it has over most other Dragon Dancers (bar Mega Gyara), as it allows Haxorus to ignore Unaware and Levitate, which belong to notably popular Pokemon in Clefable and Rotom-W, making it one of the few Dragon Dancers capable of beating Clefable.
The problem is that it is somewhat / totally eclipsed by XZard, who not only boasts the same boosting moves in Dragon Dance and Swords Dance, but has better offensive stats, better dual STAB, can easily blast past the aforementioned defensive threats that Haxorus beats with even greater power, and is immune to burns. Haxorus is also somewhat frail for a DDer, it doesn't have as many resists, and what it does resists target its weaker Special Defense anyway, meaning Haxorus will have a very difficult time setting up safely without taking too much damage compared to other Dragon Dancers. Yes, that would include Salamence, who at least has a Ground immunity, Fighting + Bug resist, and the possible Intimidate, and Mence here is outshowed by Dragonite already. In exchange for beating Clefable, Haxorus loses out on a lot more Pokemon to set up on than the other Dragon-typed DDers, which doesn't sound like a worthy trade.
Haxorus can be a threat, but falls under the 'Why would you / Do you really want to' use this over other options? category like Salamence. C+ like Mence boy.
The problem is that it is somewhat / totally eclipsed by XZard, who not only boasts the same boosting moves in Dragon Dance and Swords Dance, but has better offensive stats, better dual STAB, can easily blast past the aforementioned defensive threats that Haxorus beats with even greater power, and is immune to burns. Haxorus is also somewhat frail for a DDer, it doesn't have as many resists, and what it does resists target its weaker Special Defense anyway, meaning Haxorus will have a very difficult time setting up safely without taking too much damage compared to other Dragon Dancers. Yes, that would include Salamence, who at least has a Ground immunity, Fighting + Bug resist, and the possible Intimidate, and Mence here is outshowed by Dragonite already. In exchange for beating Clefable, Haxorus loses out on a lot more Pokemon to set up on than the other Dragon-typed DDers, which doesn't sound like a worthy trade.
Haxorus can be a threat, but falls under the 'Why would you / Do you really want to' use this over other options? category like Salamence. C+ like Mence boy.
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Tbh, Mega Alakazam can afford even to not run 252 Speed, I run 208 to outspeed Jolly Talonflame while 48 HP to sub 4 times and end up w/ 1 HP. What I run on Mega Alakazam is weird, I run SubDisable with Psychic (Or Psyshock) + Focus Blast, it's kinda a copy of the SubDisable set of Mega Gengar's, though it works much better because you are faster than a significant amount of Choice Scarf users and will easily stop Choice Specs mons, it also can disable Sucker Punch or the only SE move the pokemon has on you, while forcing many switches and being behind a sub will give you 2 hits and there are very few things Mega Zam can't 2HKO with a Modest nature.
I also tried Protect over Sub and works greatly because it doesn't take 25% of your health, I even tried Future Sight and it worked greatly and hit very very hard, Mega Zam only works with gimmicks or at least Sub + 3 attacks, all-out 4 attacking set IMO sucks. But with Sub and super fast speed it can manage, I personally see it at B-
I also tried Protect over Sub and works greatly because it doesn't take 25% of your health, I even tried Future Sight and it worked greatly and hit very very hard, Mega Zam only works with gimmicks or at least Sub + 3 attacks, all-out 4 attacking set IMO sucks. But with Sub and super fast speed it can manage, I personally see it at B-
Mega Zard requires a megastone, and can be used as a partner to Hax. Also... zardX is broken so it's an unfair comparison lol.
B for haxorus. Dragon dance sweeper/SD wall breaker are very underrated atm. Former sweeps balanced teams late game, and latter destroys stall teams. This gen in general is much more forgiving of its speed tier, with priority being more important than scarfers. Also no genesect.
The C+ and B- Rankings seem pretty stable to me. However, there are a few things which I feel are out of place.
First of all, Staraptor is definitely not B- Rank. It got so much better this generation because it makes amazing cores with top tier threats: Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, Garchomp, and Gyarados all make fantastic cores with it, especially the former two. Now, you are forgetting how it lures in and 2HKOes almost every wall in the metagame even Physically Defensive Hippowdon and Rotom-Wash. It can even lure and crush a Skarmory with a little prior damage with Final Gambit. In fact, Stealth Rock and its reliance on recoil moves make Final Gambit much more effective. Normal-typing is more valuable with Aegislash, as it hard walls it despite its bad bulk. You can't do much to it, but double switching is a thing. One thing I hear is that Staraptor cannot afford Adamant to 2HKO Rotom-W and needs Jolly, but guess what? It has a second STAB move which OHKOes Rotom-W after Stealth Rock damage. It should be between B- and A-, but I'm not sure where, but Staraptor is so scary. Seriously, one has to sac something to get a 'mon in safely against Offensive teams. Against defensive teams, you can SPAM Double Edge and Brave Bird until it dies of recoil; your opponent's stall team won't be able to take Mega Pinsir / Talonflame / Garchomp next turn or you can just SPAM an LO attack until they lose. Staraptor is like Mega Medichame except its better STAB, not needing a mega slot, and lack of risky STAB makes it superior if you fulfill its needs with Defog. The recoil damage is rarely a problem. I find that if Staraptor manages to die from recoil, you have done so much damage to the opposition that its almost gg. The speed tier it sits on is pretty nice though not the past especially since the metagame has gotten considerably slower and semi-stall is seen often in the higher end of the ladder.
Also, I disagree with Sharpedo being C+ rank. It's not a bad PKMN. I bet none of you have considered using it. One main thing people say about Sharpedo is that it needs rain but your better off using Kingdra (who should be B- js). Next, it doesn't come out early game. You are using it wrong if you say this. It only comes out late-game when everything is weakened so it can OHKO everything. It can play around Aegislash with Destiny Bond. Turn 1: Aegislash uses King's Shield or Sacred Sword, while you Destiny Bond. Turn 2: If it uses King's Shield, you can Crunch on the Aegislash doing massive damage to it (this is late-game, weakening is pretty easy to do with the lack of recovery). Also, is being "predictable" a bad thing? Mega Charizard Y is predictable. Garchomp is predictable. Manaphy is predictable. Conkeldurr is predictable. Aegislash is predictable. I can go with this list for a little more, but you get the point. Using Protect to get a speed boost isn't bad. It can even use Aqua Jet if you think Talonflame is ruining its viability. Keeping Sharpedo in the waste management with Salamence and Celebi is honestly an insult. It has flaws yes, but it requires little support because it isn't Stealth Rock. In fact, it actually becomes a team player this generation vs. Gen V Sharpedo because of Destiny Bond. All it needs is weakening the opponents team for Sharpedo to wrap up. It doesn't even fit the definition of C Rank. It is perfectly fine in B-.
Finally, I feel like Galvantula should actually move up than drop. I bet Doughboy agrees with this. A basic math formula you use for adding exponents in high / middle school is that m^2 + m^3 = m^5. Also, 3^a + 3^b = 3^a+b. Galvantula is the same thing. Galvantula = Sticky Web. Sticky Web = Good. Adding a + b is liek adding Galvantula + Sticky Web which helps form the basis to the answer to your math problem. In this case, you are basically forimng your team on its reliance. A math problem can go wrong without one component. Sticky Web is so amazing this generation that it makes everything 10x faster. You are using Manaphy for Tail Glow because it's amazing. Sticky Web is amazing. Playing with it smart is the key to its success. It is worth it.
First of all, Staraptor is definitely not B- Rank. It got so much better this generation because it makes amazing cores with top tier threats: Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Mega Charizard X, Garchomp, and Gyarados all make fantastic cores with it, especially the former two. Now, you are forgetting how it lures in and 2HKOes almost every wall in the metagame even Physically Defensive Hippowdon and Rotom-Wash. It can even lure and crush a Skarmory with a little prior damage with Final Gambit. In fact, Stealth Rock and its reliance on recoil moves make Final Gambit much more effective. Normal-typing is more valuable with Aegislash, as it hard walls it despite its bad bulk. You can't do much to it, but double switching is a thing. One thing I hear is that Staraptor cannot afford Adamant to 2HKO Rotom-W and needs Jolly, but guess what? It has a second STAB move which OHKOes Rotom-W after Stealth Rock damage. It should be between B- and A-, but I'm not sure where, but Staraptor is so scary. Seriously, one has to sac something to get a 'mon in safely against Offensive teams. Against defensive teams, you can SPAM Double Edge and Brave Bird until it dies of recoil; your opponent's stall team won't be able to take Mega Pinsir / Talonflame / Garchomp next turn or you can just SPAM an LO attack until they lose. Staraptor is like Mega Medichame except its better STAB, not needing a mega slot, and lack of risky STAB makes it superior if you fulfill its needs with Defog. The recoil damage is rarely a problem. I find that if Staraptor manages to die from recoil, you have done so much damage to the opposition that its almost gg. The speed tier it sits on is pretty nice though not the past especially since the metagame has gotten considerably slower and semi-stall is seen often in the higher end of the ladder.
Also, I disagree with Sharpedo being C+ rank. It's not a bad PKMN. I bet none of you have considered using it. One main thing people say about Sharpedo is that it needs rain but your better off using Kingdra (who should be B- js). Next, it doesn't come out early game. You are using it wrong if you say this. It only comes out late-game when everything is weakened so it can OHKO everything. It can play around Aegislash with Destiny Bond. Turn 1: Aegislash uses King's Shield or Sacred Sword, while you Destiny Bond. Turn 2: If it uses King's Shield, you can Crunch on the Aegislash doing massive damage to it (this is late-game, weakening is pretty easy to do with the lack of recovery). Also, is being "predictable" a bad thing? Mega Charizard Y is predictable. Garchomp is predictable. Manaphy is predictable. Conkeldurr is predictable. Aegislash is predictable. I can go with this list for a little more, but you get the point. Using Protect to get a speed boost isn't bad. It can even use Aqua Jet if you think Talonflame is ruining its viability. Keeping Sharpedo in the waste management with Salamence and Celebi is honestly an insult. It has flaws yes, but it requires little support because it isn't Stealth Rock. In fact, it actually becomes a team player this generation vs. Gen V Sharpedo because of Destiny Bond. All it needs is weakening the opponents team for Sharpedo to wrap up. It doesn't even fit the definition of C Rank. It is perfectly fine in B-.
Finally, I feel like Galvantula should actually move up than drop. I bet Doughboy agrees with this. A basic math formula you use for adding exponents in high / middle school is that m^2 + m^3 = m^5. Also, 3^a + 3^b = 3^a+b. Galvantula is the same thing. Galvantula = Sticky Web. Sticky Web = Good. Adding a + b is liek adding Galvantula + Sticky Web which helps form the basis to the answer to your math problem. In this case, you are basically forimng your team on its reliance. A math problem can go wrong without one component. Sticky Web is so amazing this generation that it makes everything 10x faster. You are using Manaphy for Tail Glow because it's amazing. Sticky Web is amazing. Playing with it smart is the key to its success. It is worth it.
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What high school did you go to?
A lot of the talk of dropping Galvantula is specifically because Sticky Web is not that great. There is no good reason to use Galvantula besides sticky web, so his viability kind of hinges on how good sticky web is. And it's not that great.
While I agree about Staraptor, about your Sharpedo arguemnt, first of all, Aegislash is absolutely NOT predictable, weakness policy, leftovers, Life Orb, Expert belt or Spooky Plate, Special, Mixed, Physical, or Atumotize, you can never now just by looking at his team. Char Y has fire move/Solar Beam/Roost, weather he runs Air Slash, Focus Blast, EQ, or no roost at all you'd never know, there is some Zards that even run Flare Blitz to nail Chansey and Blissey, Sharpedo will always hold Waterfall/Crunch/Ice Beam Or Ice fang/D-Bond while some MAY run EQ, but that's about it.
As for Galvantula, Sticky Web isn't THAT t great and you don't have x10 speed b/c of Sticky Web, above all Galvantula IS the one who is predictable and can easily be Taunted, Mental Herb Shuckle w/ Toxic + Sticky Web + SR is better support tbh.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 241-285 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Staraptor: 195-231 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Staraptor: 147-173 (47.1 - 55.4%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
"Hard Walls". Aegislash has more moves then just Shadow Ball and Sneak, you know. Also, as Proffessional2341 said, Aegislash isn't predictable.
Im sure im not the only one it annoys. It's m^3 . m^2 = M^5.
Also i agree with moving up staraptor, its way too threatening, it is much stronger than talonflame who has less attack than amoongus. staraptor is an amazing wallbreaker, you dont know whether it is scarf or band.
While I'm here I am just going to say I believe Exploud ranked at C+
He may not be that overused, but when I see him, I feel he is in competition with some other popular special sweepers. For starters, Boomburst is a disgustingly powerful STAB, almost as strong as Hyper Beam, but with no recharge. Then there is the fact that it breaks through substitutes, which is common for walls like Gliscor, and Subfocus Breloom and Mega Hera. Not to mention he can learn a wide variety of very powerful moves like Blizzard, Fireblast, and Focusblast. This makes him a strong revenge-killer and potential sweeper. There are pokemon that do his job a bit better, but I feel that is the spirit of a C+ rank.
He may not be that overused, but when I see him, I feel he is in competition with some other popular special sweepers. For starters, Boomburst is a disgustingly powerful STAB, almost as strong as Hyper Beam, but with no recharge. Then there is the fact that it breaks through substitutes, which is common for walls like Gliscor, and Subfocus Breloom and Mega Hera. Not to mention he can learn a wide variety of very powerful moves like Blizzard, Fireblast, and Focusblast. This makes him a strong revenge-killer and potential sweeper. There are pokemon that do his job a bit better, but I feel that is the spirit of a C+ rank.
Goodra is a beast of a Pokemon he can go offensive with a physical special or mixed set or he could defensive with assault vest boosting his already high 150 base special defense here are some calcs
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra in Sun: 74-87 (19.2 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 170-202 (57 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Goodra Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 312-368 (104.6 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
this is important because pretend you have Trevenant out and char x about to fire blitz you switch into goodra take the hit his speed goes down ko with dragon pulse high risk but high reward
252+ SpA Goodra Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 256-302 (94.1 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
his return has a 12% chance to OHKO but if you put 20 evs into defense its a guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 60-72 (15.6 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO 2HKO back with dragon pulse
0 SpA Goodra Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 206-244 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
the set im currently using is bold with max hp def with assualt vest in game and it can take out azumarill with 2 thunders
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra in Sun: 74-87 (19.2 - 22.6%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 170-202 (57 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Goodra Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 312-368 (104.6 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
this is important because pretend you have Trevenant out and char x about to fire blitz you switch into goodra take the hit his speed goes down ko with dragon pulse high risk but high reward
252+ SpA Goodra Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 256-302 (94.1 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
his return has a 12% chance to OHKO but if you put 20 evs into defense its a guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 60-72 (15.6 - 18.7%) -- possible 6HKO 2HKO back with dragon pulse
0 SpA Goodra Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 206-244 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
the set im currently using is bold with max hp def with assualt vest in game and it can take out azumarill with 2 thunders
There are quite some things wrong with this. First of all, why would ever run Thunder if you don't have rain or Compoundeyes? You say Thunder 2HKO'S Azumarill, but one of those 2 times it's gonna miss anyway. Let's say Goodra would use Thunderbolt:
0 SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 170-200 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
And a lot of Azumarill's run Assault Vest aswell:
0 SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 112-134 (27.7 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
You also said Goodra can take on Azumarill because it's physically defensive. Well...
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 320-380 (83.3 - 98.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So Azumarill without a boosting item has a 75% chance to OHKO physically defensive Goodra after rocks. And even if Goodra lives, you can just Aqua Jet the next turn and kill it.
So yeah, saying Goodra can take on Azumarill doesn't make much sense.
I agree with the people above who say Staraptor deserves to be moved up. It forms great cores with top offensive pokemon such as Mega-Pinsir and Talonflame and hits like a truck with two good STABs. While it is pretty frail and sits at a decent 100 base speed, it has enough going for it to do its job well and consistently. Staraptor for B
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
I will nominate him (staraptor) for B too. The choice band set hits like a truck.
Most goodra are modest and run 252 spatk
252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 230-272 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Goodra can beat azumarill if it predicts the switch in. Azumarill is naturally slower than goodra and you can easily sniff out max speed belly drum variants based on the damage you're dealing.
Just comparing
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 1002-1178 (260.9 - 306.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 938-1106 (244.2 - 288%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keep in mind that Staraptor doesn't require a mega slot and nothing is immune to Brave Bird, making it much more spammable.
I think that hitting most of the metagame for neutral damage with this kind of power (rivaling the most powerful unboosted attack in the game iirc), not taking up a mega slot and being a part of one of the most devastating cores in the meta is enough to make it at the very least B+.
(Actually looking at the definitions I personally would put it in A-, but I won't aim that high lol)
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 1002-1178 (260.9 - 306.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 938-1106 (244.2 - 288%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keep in mind that Staraptor doesn't require a mega slot and nothing is immune to Brave Bird, making it much more spammable.
I think that hitting most of the metagame for neutral damage with this kind of power (rivaling the most powerful unboosted attack in the game iirc), not taking up a mega slot and being a part of one of the most devastating cores in the meta is enough to make it at the very least B+.
(Actually looking at the definitions I personally would put it in A-, but I won't aim that high lol)
252 Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 1238-1460 (322.3 - 380.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Just because Staraptor hits like a truck doesn't conceal its many other flaws. Staraptor is weak to stealth rock, relies on moves that will KO itself, and has terrible bulk and defensive typing. All of these problems are compounded by a pretty average base speed allowing it to be out-spead and revenge killed very easily. If the opponent has a wall such as Skarmory, Staraptor will literally Brave Bird itself to death. I think B- fits Staraptor pretty well.
Rampardos has shit speed tier and even worse bulk than Staraptor. I really don't see the point of comparing.
All I was doing was comparing two pokemon with similar bulk, same base speed and just-as-bad defensive typing.
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