Media Yu-Gi-Oh discussion

[Forte.EXE]

King Tiger Wanghu, I disagree. Anti-meta decks run it on occasion.
As far as I can, Macro Cosmos can go over Dimensional Fissure in a Dino Rabbit deck.

As for the no one siding them in, no one used to side in things like Mirror of Oaths and Chain Disappearance. As the meta changes, so do the side decks.

 

[Cipher Admin Lovrina]

King Tiger Wanghu, I disagree. Anti-meta decks run it on occasion.
As far as I can, Macro Cosmos can go over Dimensional Fissure in a Dino Rabbit deck.

As for the no one siding them in, no one used to side in things like Mirror of Oaths and Chain Disappearance. As the meta changes, so do the side decks.

Mirror of Oaths have always been nice for Plant and GB decks though. I ran them like as soon as Synchro Cat, or whatever it was, became hot way back!

 

[Cshadow]

Originally Posted by Fat Forte.EXE
Except they're not broken.

Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror. Fair.
Skill Drain. You have to use a deck that revolves around this. The only deck unhindered by Skill Drain is Dark Worlds and T.G. Skill drain variants - and Dark World sucks because of how ridiculously easy it is to side against them.
Fiendish Chain. Popped by any other Inzektor monster that grabs Hornet from the grave/hand.
Effect Veiler. Hurts everything, invalid.
King Tiger Wanghu. Would have to be used by an anti-meta deck - most decks don't main this because they would actually be hurt by it.
Solemn Warning. Hurts everything, invalid.
Macro Cosmos. Dimensional Fissure is better and actually mained/sided by Inzektor decks because when they're equipped cards are sent to the grave they're sent as Equip Spells and not Monsters.
Banisher of Radiance. Mediocre card that's popped by a Hornet in the hand, and allows them to +++ from easy Leviair plays.
Chain Disappearance. Allows them to ++++ off Leviair plays.
Prohibition. Trash.
Divine Wrath. Trash.
Light and Darkness Dragon. Only run by Monarchs and it hurts everything anyways.
Crevice into the Different Dimension. Doesn't hurt them.

It's not broken just because you don't actually look for ways to beat it. Side Decks exist for a reason

Banishment arguments are invalid because they can easily Xyz into Leviair and begin to plus off him in that way. Dimensional Fissure is mained by Inzektor decks because Hornet and friends when sent to the grave while equipped are sent as Equip Spells and not monsters. Cards like Effect Veiler and Solemn Warning literally hurt everything (well most everything) so using that as an argument is pointless.

 

[Forte.EXE]

So if it works on anything other than Inzektors, it's invalid? Well, guess I'll start mentioning more specialized counters, like Eradicating Aerosol.

For Fiendish Chain, you stop them when they go to use Dragonfly/Centipede's effect when they Normal Summon it on that turn, then you run over it on yours.
I have no idea what your point was when you were addressing Macro Cosmos. Literally, no idea.
Banisher of Radiance stops Hornet completely because Hornet requires it to be sent to the Graveyard for its effect to activate.
With Crevice, if you send even one other Inzektor to the Graveyard, you can remove it and Hornet from play.

Following your banishment counterargument, all cards that banish monsters are terrible because I'll just magically pull Tour Guide at the exact right moment and summon a Leviair straight from out of my ass.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Maxx "C", Veiler, Solemn Warning and Shadow Mirror are all good ways to slow Inzektors down. They are still an overpowered archetype though, and can counter-side if need be.

 

[Forte.EXE]

Maxx "C" doesn't really do anything against Inzektors though. The only Special Summon that's happening within the Dragonfly + Hornet combination is Centipede. Other than that, you're just hoping to hit a Tour Guide.

 

[Cshadow]

So if it works on anything other than Inzektors, it's invalid? Well, guess I'll start mentioning more specialized counters, like Eradicating Aerosol.
What I'm saying is you can't say "Oh Veiler/Warning stop them so they're not busted" because Veiler/Warning stops flipping everybody. Just because they're stopped by Veiler/Warning doesn't mean they aren't broken.

For Fiendish Chain, you stop them when they go to use Dragonfly/Centipede's effect when they Normal Summon it on that turn, then you run over it on yours.
That's fair. But it won't have as much of an effect in the Second/Third game when they side in Royal Decree.

I have no idea what your point was when you were addressing Macro Cosmos. Literally, no idea.
Macro Cosmos is only good in Macro Cosmos decks. If you're looking for a better, more varied option that a lot of decks can take advantage of, you should look at Dimensional Fissure. However Dimensional Fissure is run/sided by Inzektor decks because it doesn't stop them from working.

Banisher of Radiance stops Hornet completely because Hornet requires it to be sent to the Graveyard for its effect to activate.
Ah, I thought Banisher of Radiance was like a Dimensional Fissure with a body. My bad. Still, Inzektors can run it over with Inzektor Giga-Mantis equipped to anyone, so he's not always going to be a viable option.

With Crevice, if you send even one other Inzektor to the Graveyard, you can remove it and Hornet from play.
Following your banishment counterargument, all cards that banish monsters are terrible because I'll just magically pull Tour Guide at the exact right moment and summon a Leviair straight from out of my ass.
They don't need Tour Guide to go into Leviair, all the cards in the Archetype are level 3 except the Giga-____ Inzektors. But what I'm saying is banishing Damsel/Hornet isn't going to hurt them as severely because they can just use Leviair to plus off of them. By banishing their monsters you've opened yourself up to Leviair plays that will wreck you.

There's also the Inzektor-Wind-Up decks that like to burn your entire hand if you don't go first and don't open with Effect Veiler or Maxx "C". But that's a different discussion~

EDIT: Don't interpret this as me trying to be difficult or just pull stuff out of my ass or anything. This is going based off what I understand from how Inzektors run.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Maxx "C" doesn't really do anything against Inzektors though. The only Special Summon that's happening within the Dragonfly + Hornet combination is Centipede. Other than that, you're just hoping to hit a Tour Guide.

Don't forget about Centipede and Dragonfly going into an xyz at the end, usually Leviair, who can special summon Dragonfly from the banished zone and start the shenanigans all over again. Deterring a play like that with Maxx "C" can win you the game. But yea, Veiler is probably a bit more effective than Maxx "C" in that regard.

 

[Atticus]

Except they're not broken.

Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror.
Skill Drain.
Fiendish Chain.
Effect Veiler.
King Tiger Wanghu.
Solemn Warning.
Macro Cosmos.
Banisher of Radiance.
Chain Disappearance.
Prohibition.
Solemn Warning.
Divine Wrath.
Effect Veiler.
Light and Darkness Dragon.
Crevice into the Different Dimension.

It's not broken just because you don't actually look for ways to beat it. Side Decks exist for a reason.

lol did you seriously list prohibition as a side deck choice. the fact that TWO cards is an insant +4 regardless of how counterable it may be is fucking retarded. also its not like inzektor players arent aware of things like shadow mirror/chain etc, they'll just side in msts and maybe a dust to counter that. the combo is too easy to pull off and rewards the player with unnecessary advantage.

 

[Warped Worlds]

It's viable, I suppose. I hope you plan on running Agents and Hyperion somewhere in there.

I have to disagree about 3 Fiendish Chain with LizardMan. When Inzektors get more popular in the TCG, it's going to become necessary that you have some way to stop them. Effect Veiler only stops them for a single turn, and Fiendish Chain isn't affected by D-Fissure Rescue Rabbit decks, unlike Veiler.

Hide

I will never stop hyping Inzektors until everyone realizes that they are the biggest new threat.

I haven't played in a couple of months, but are they really THAT good or are they going to be overhyped like Dark World as I predicted?

Fiendish Chain is a great card, but it seems to be overkill in like every matchup except Inzectors. Sure, you can side it out. That doesn't take away from the fact that triple Fiendish Chain can lead to sub-par draws depending on what you are fighting. Take this with a grain of salt, I haven't played.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I've been having stupid fun with a GK secret village team:
http://i.imgur.com/jJg0g.jpg

It's actually been testing pretty well. Locking players out of spells can really slow them down (especially against decks like Dark World). Summoning Jowgen with Safe Zone after you have set up your field is often auto-win.

The funny part is I sided the regular GK engine so I could annoy decks like Inzektors and Plants game 2. Lol.

 

[Penance]

I guess I'll join this thread. I have been playing yugioh ever since 2005ish and played WC 2006 a lot. I have played competitively ever since around 2009 when we had Lightsworns with 3 Charge and 3 Lumina and we had Blackwings with 3 Kalut and Whirlwind. And I believe Destiny Draw was at 3 and Allure was at 2 in September-ish. After Infernities got mega hyped and X-Sabers were pretty broken with Cat and Cold Wave I decided to take a break from the game seeing as all I saw was 6 to 12 rage inducing months. I returned around October of 2011 and I got thrown into a game that I barely knew, however I learned it all around late November and have reimbursed myself into this game with confidence.

I've been having stupid fun with a GK secret village team:
http://i.imgur.com/jJg0g.jpg

It's actually been testing pretty well. Locking players out of spells can really slow them down (especially against decks like Dark World). Summoning Jowgen with Safe Zone after you have set up your field is often auto-win.

but the funny part is I sided the regular GK engine so I could annoy decks like Inzektors and Plants game 2. Lol.

Dark World can set Gates over Village and then just flip Gates so it doesn't hurt too much if they draw into Gates, which is at 3 then continue to spam -1s. And Dark Worlds do play around Necrovalley. However it sounds like that it has a lot of good matchups against a lot of meta decks.

I have been working on a Skill Drain Beast Beatdown deck I have had moderate success with since it has mad draw power with Horn of the Phantom Beast and Beast King Barbaros just overpowering everything early game and if I do get 3 horn and protection they are either staring down a +3 everytime it kills something or 5400 damage every turn, so it is pretty cool.

Also if anybody wants to play on DN my screen name is new user, creative, I know.

 

[Neonian]

You cant flip gates over secret village

 

[pimpgangster]

I can see the benifits of using Zephyros (though if I did get rid of the Red-eyes for this card, bouncing future fusion would be pointless because I wouldn't have enough Dragon's in my deck to use it in the first place after using it a second time.)

@Terraforming (a third one seems bitter sweet for me. I can see adding one would increase my speed by a little bit but at the same time it seems kinda pointless to me. I don't know why.), and Effect Veiler/Divine Wrath(these cards are always good but I'm trying to decrease my defense to add more speed lol)/third Cards of Consonance(the reason I decided not to do 3 instead was because I thought it would lead to more dead draws. I already get more dead draws than not with this card so I'm actually thinking about taking 1 out.)/Pot of Avarice(I can see the benifits of using this card but at the same time my deck is heavily reliant on monsters in the grave. Using it on the winged beasts is something I can think of going with but at the same time there aren't nearly as many of those as the dragons I need to have in my grave.)/Malefic Stardust Dragon(this one I can get behind. A 2500 beat stick that's easy to summon and protects my field spell is pure love. Only bad thing I can think about it is that it banishes Stardust which I often target with my level 8 synchros. Maybe I can put in Return from the different Dimension?)/Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind(useful for defense and it allows me to get out those level 7 synchros sense this deck lacks any level 3 tuners or level 5 non-tuners that would actually allow me to get em out. Another card I can get behind.)/Dark Hole (Always a useful card and there are definately times when I needed it.)

As said Zeph can bounce Ravine or a used Dux or Legionnaire to use them again. Running 2 is pointless because the second just becomes dead after you use the first one.

Terraforming to 3 because it can give either a Ravine to your hand or provide fodder for Ravine

Maybe side Gale.

Also has anyone noticed how good Shard of greed is for Anti-Meta decks such as GK's and Glads. Yeah, sure it's vulnerable to MST and Heavy but if people waste an MST on it they are retarded. It certainly helps Glad's because Duality just screws them over IMO.

DN: sayoonarabob

 

[Atticus]

i was hesitant to use 3 chains so i started out with 2 and its been amazing, i might even run 3 but we'll see. i think you guys are overlooking chain's versatility. it doesn't just stop opposing inzektors, it protects you from attacks you dont want hitting you, game breaking effects like trish/opposing dragonfly and most importantly, you can target chain as your hornet fodder to + off your crap when your opponent plays conservatively and doesn't want to commit to the field. plays like fiendish chaining a thunder king, then targeting chain and the tking for massive +++ are amazing.

this of course is only in inzektors, as for siding it in other decks i would probably would have 2 in pretty much everything. inzektors love blowing up backrow with hornet which is why a lot of builds dont even main mst anymore. chain is a good way to just shut them down and its not like they can do anything if you dont have anything to hit.

 

[kd24]

its pretty sad that inzektors arent even the most broken thing on dn right now...windups are such fucking bullshit =[

 

[Glen]

started playing again after a 3 month break, not sure if i'm gonna buy back tour guides or whatever but we'll see

the first thing i noticed upon my return is that zenmaines is not only one of the best cards in the game, but it rewards good players noticeably more than it does bad players so

original build had 3 but i realized if i knew what i was doing id only need two, plus random second leviair/leviathan have come in handy considering the only thing this deck does is xyz rank 3. put in scrap and stardust after a couple instances of running into gorz with veiler mind control in hand.

could be tweaked but the build is close to as good as it can get. charge of the cornered rat is insane, fitting room is kinda gimmicky but you can set up double zenmaines first turn and if you have the warning for cydra you're in hog heaven. also i fitting roomed into trish once and it was so cheeky

common charity is really cool too. i was playing dinos before but after repeatedly guessing wrong on whether to make laggia or dolkka i got really mad and stopped playing it, hydro and guaiba are insane though, more decks need to splash them

inzecters and windups are zzzbroken, but on the plus side that probably means i wont need to buy rabbits if i start playing again sooo

 

[reyscarface]

lol chain burn is so ridiculously easy to win with :D

 

[Super Mario Bro]

@ Glen:

Minor detail but Mad Lobster > Sonic Duck :P

Nice team though. I tried to make a normal beatdown deck myself but it was a bit more trap heavy and included the level 4 Dinos. My only suggestion would be to put in 1-2 Swing of Memories -- it really helps make quick rank 3s, and isn't dead too often.

 

[kd24]

ok now for a real deck of men .. i know i told some people id be putting up a youtube profile of my first inzektor build months ago (before they became mainstream and the only pictures of them were fuzzy outlines on DN) but i still cant be assed to do it and this deck has been done to death on yt already (although ive only found 1 build similar to this although i believe mine fairs better in the current meta)

im sure puny atticus will try to boast about his inzektors but trust me, this is the best build right now for this meta and i think its probably more consistent than wind-ups, ill explain some things that should be easy to follow but w/e

Heart of Clear Water - i was so excited when i saw this (only 1 yt vid i found had this in the inzektor build) and i immediately changed my BLS build which featured rai-oh because atticus is a nerd and i heard him talking about it so i tried that out .. this is really just amazing. ill list what it does:

- free defensive protection for dragonfly against attacks / random targetting destruction effects (tiras suck my cock :D)

- free instant ss when equipped to a dragonfly already equipped with hornet - you search for centi, pop with hornet, ss another centi, ss hornet with them both for 2 more pops and search for 2 so you are basically doubling up your plusses

- free instant 1st turn hornet search for centi (one of the most annoying things about inzektors is opening centi with shit like tour guide/veiler/solemns it just becomes a waiting game as you try to stall out...heart fixes this by literaly giving you a searcher for hornet)

- literal mst / heavy bait, the opponent cant touch it with either because if they do, one of the inzektors goes off and hornets just going to come out so they basically have to leave it alone if equipped to dragonfly...but then dragonfly cant be destroyed, only banished/returned to hand

Call of the Haunted - in a meta where everything from your hand to field is popped and you need to deliver otks efficiently, running 2 call makes your job very easy, basically giving you 2nd chances when needed (especially with solemn) and a good finisher if you can xyz summon twice but still need a final beater to finish

Effect Veiler - fuck off wind-ups, this is basically your only defense against that ridiculous +4 loop they have early..inzektors fuck them up though if they cant loop right away, assuming your draw isnt terrible. great call all around though, especially in builds where you could have trouble (agents for example dont leave too much popping room and instead just try to slug it out, this slows them down easily)

why this deck is different from what youll normally see - actually this deck is similar to what i saw on YT but i made some key changes that fit how i play better - mainly the 3 upstart and 2 veiler. you need the draw engine and defense and on youtube, the build was to defend with spirit reaper (which is good in todays meta) but i just dont like it. there were some other changes like using SLR for backrow protection but imo, the time to worry about heavy is almost never there (other than fiendish chain)...much of your s/t action results in plusses for you right away anyway. he also used MST but again, you have hornet to pop things and imo enough summoning material that very rarely do you want mst. going back to what i said though, from what i can tell inzektors like to run dad, bls, some kind of boss like fabbles pointed out to me - i think its better not to. i tried using both and they always left my hand clogged and when i could use them, it felt like i could just use something else instead to start inzekt swarming. i suppose SLR and one of those bosses could be put in (GORZ too) but this meta is more concerned with little guys dumping shit rather than big guys bossing through...its really your choice

also the ideal play taken from atticus and applied to my own duels is getting your plusses and then zenmaines at the main phase 2 of each turn for safety...should be obvious enough but yeah

now if for some reason heart of clear water doesnt work then id be extremely sad and it means ive been cheating :P but i checked all the rulings and worked through test duels with fabbles and, yeah it checks out from what i can tell (it equips first and then is destroyed, but it still is equipped) so idk why it doesnt get much use (if any on DN?) but i would suggest using it if you are a fan of inzektors. heart of clearwater turned this deck from gay to cool and gay so yeah there ya go you bunch of nignogs xD

 

[AlphaSpade]

Speaking of Wind-Ups

Bread and butter pure Wind-Ups minus hunter. Still playing around with the S/T line-up.

 

[Z-rex]

inzektor is more like an engine to me than an actual deck , and this is why i think it's going to be a pain to side against , you can play agent inzektor , wind up inzektor , heck you can even play frog inzektor with insect imitation , it's just ridiculous , what the hell was konami thinking :( .

veiler should be played at 3 in the main for the next format in my opinion .

 

[Forte.EXE]

I dislike Heart of Clear Water in an Inzektor deck for a few reasons. One, it's situation. Didn't open up with Dragonfly or Centipede and/or the means to get them quickly? Guess you're screwed for the next few turns then. Needed that one card that could potentially save your ass? Nope, you top-decked Heart of Clear Water instead. To me, it seems like Heart of Clear Water is less of a card to help you win and more of a card that screams "hey, I'm winning, but I really want to flip my opponent off, so I'll play this too".

Also, you may not have to play the waiting game if you open up with no Hornets and Centipede/Dragonfly in your hand if you ran at least one more Armageddon Knight. Dark Armed is insanely useful because Inzektors easily control just how many Dark monsters are in the graveyard by equipping Hornet. It should rarely, if ever, be dead, unless it's so late in the game or you're just throwing away monsters for the hell of it.

Packing three Mystical Space Typhoons all together in preparation for the Spell and Trap hate that Inzektors are going to have to deal with. Dimensional Fissure stops Agent decks from removing their Agents from the Graveyard, forcing them to give up field or hand advantage. Dark World gets shut down. Veiler and Maxx "C" can't be activated, and Thunder King can't negate Special Summons anymore. Debunk for shit like Gorz/Tragoedia, as well as the aforementioned Veiler and "C". Cyber Dragon for Karakuri decks (yes, I realize that I need to add Chimeratech Fortress Dragon to the Side), 2 Spirit Reaper to stall Dino-Rabbit decks, as well as 2 Bottomless Trap Hole.

 

[J-man]

I HATE BLS!!!! I was finally beating an inzektor deck with a perfect loop of Light and Darkness Dragon, when HE shows up in the middle of it.
I HATE YOU KONAMI!!!

 

[KurashiDragon]

I HATE BLS!!!! I was finally beating an inzektor deck with a perfect loop of Light and Darkness Dragon, when HE shows up in the middle of it.
I HATE YOU KONAMI!!!

The ban list should be coming soon and with it, hopefully the limiting/banning of those broken Inzektor.