Zoroark

[A e t h e r]

I suppose people were expecting too much of a second Lucario this generation.

Knowing Game Freak, they'll just give it some minor improvements throughout the generation and beyond -- perhaps in the form of tutors or future egg/pre-evolution moves. Like for instance, Lucario. Even though gaining Nasty Plot is minor, it's quite significant enough to be worth a mention.

I do wish Zoroark had some priority moves beyond just Sucker Punch, feels like the Attack stat is almost a waste. But I suppose with a similarly gigantic movepool like a certain blue Jackal, Zoroark may have been a bit broken. Still, I'd appreciate more versatility.

Team Reveal really screwed this over as much as a few people would love to suggest that it still has an effect on the opponents actions. It has the stats to perform it's job as an Illusionist, but the typing and movepool doesn't really seem to take full advantage of it so far.

 

[smashbroski77]

I suppose people were expecting too much of a second Lucario this generation.

Knowing Game Freak, they'll just give it some minor improvements throughout the generation and beyond -- perhaps in the form of tutors or future egg/pre-evolution moves. Like for instance, Lucario. Even though gaining Nasty Plot is minor, it's quite significant enough to be worth a mention.

I do wish Zoroark had some priority moves beyond just Sucker Punch, feels like the Attack stat is almost a waste. But I suppose with a similarly gigantic movepool like a certain blue Jackal, Zoroark may have been a bit broken. Still, I'd appreciate more versatility.

Team Reveal really screwed this over as much as a few people would love to suggest that it still has an effect on the opponents actions. It has the stats to
perform it's job as an Illusionist, but the typing and movepool doesn't really
seem to take full advantage of it so far.

I don't want to be a noon but...what blue jackal are you talking about haha

 

[Lady Shinki]

lucario, mate.

Bluffing any fighting type is generally a good strategy, it lures psychic moves and also lures in ghosts to be hit by stab Dark moves.

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

lucario, mate.

Bluffing any fighting type is generally a good strategy, it lures psychic moves and also lures in ghosts to be hit by stab Dark moves.

Except Fighting types take half the damage from Stealth Rock so...any good player will know immediately it's Zoroark.

 

[alphatron]

If team preview is such a problem, then stick to using Zoroark in infrared local battles, where team previews don't exist.

 

[voodoo pimp]

If team preview is such a problem, then stick to using Zoroark in infrared local battles, where team previews don't exist.

Which doesn't help in the slightest when using a simulator that requires it, since the vast majority of us don't have the time and/or patience to fully train dozens of Pokémon in-game. Not to mention it requires that you have a lot of friends in your area to play with, and be content to stick with only them.

Team Preview is a part of the game now, and Zoroark users in particular are going to have to learn to work with it.

 

[Benlisted]

Could always abuse secondary typings and pair him with Heracross, Blaziken, Infernape, or even Enbouh, to get the most out the Fight/Dark combo whilst not letting SR give you away.

 

[PK Gaming]

If you're using NP, then you're not using it right. Zoroak doesn't have enough speed or bulk to really sweep, and there are better stall breakers. Zoroak's purpose is to sucker-punch (not the actual move) your opponent's best check to your sweeper.

NP Zoroark is deadly when played correctly. Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but Illusion gives Zoroark many opportunities to set up.

If team preview is such a problem, then stick to using Zoroark in infrared local battles, where team previews don't exist.

Local battles have a lvl cap of 50 though.

 

[Melfice_Cyrum]

Yeah. I was excited for it at first, but in all honesty, I can't use Zoroark now that Smogon insists on Team Preview in all metagames. It's just not worth it to try and bluff when they're absolutely positive you have Zoroark and will naturally be more wary of it throughout the match. Also, considering his low defenses, inability to switch in on anything if he wants to keep that Illusion going, and the fact that weather teams run over basically everything, Zoroark buffing is about as audacious a strategy as GyaraVire right now.

Go compare his level of usage now to PO's Dream World OU. Being able to see the other guy's team really makes all the difference.

One thing to keep in mind though, is that the 2011 VGCs are only allowing B/W Pokemon. Which this is an extremely selective format, a metagame where you only use B/W 'mon might change the way Zoroark sees use. And honestly, Team Preview doesn't bug me that much. Sure, they know Zoroark is on your team, but that means they have to second guess or stop to think each time they go for a prediction.

 

[SJCrew]

Alternatively, you guys can go to PO's server to get in all the Zoroark fun you want. It's basically all about Dream World over there, which has *gasp* no team preview! If you discover any new strategies with him, be sure to post them here and specify for all of the people still in Wifi-mode.

 

[guanlong]

The question is, what is Zoroark best used to copy? The fact that Stealth Rock weak sometimes calls your bluff is crippling. There are those that have pretty cool type synergy with Zoroark, but they are either horribly outclassed at what they do like Infernape.

However, there's a good thing about using Zoroark to copy Infernape. They share pretty close movepools (NP/Flamethrower) and have equally shit defenses and good speed. You should never copy Blaziken because nobody in their right mind uses Blaze; Enbuuoh is too slow. The rest of the Fighting types are SR resistant, so....

Zoroark is far from a new Lucario, although flavour-wise it does seem pretty similar. With Spinda's defenses (lol) it gets killed by virtually all priority, and that's not a good thing in this priority-ridden metagame. Also, its movepool really sucks, with Focus Miss as your only good Fighting-type move :/

 

[MofoAmbulance]

While it is a hit against Zoroark, team preview is easy to play around with being able to swap round your pokemon, and you can use this to play mindgames. Is that pokemon Zoroark? did he swap them around? Should I take this one at face value or play it safe?

Zoroark also makes a good partner with NP Infernape. Zoroark is a good pokemon that needs to be played intelligently to get the best use out of it... although I suppose that's obvious now.

 

[SJCrew]

Zoroark is far from a new Lucario, although flavour-wise it does seem pretty similar. With Spinda's defenses (lol) it gets killed by virtually all priority, and that's not a good thing in this priority-ridden metagame. Also, its movepool really sucks, with Focus Miss as your only good Fighting-type move :/

Good thing Zoroark is faster than most priority users and has STAB on Sucker Punch. Once he gets that SD in, I'm going to be the one going "lol priority" instead.

+2 on CB Azumarril: 95.8% - 112.9%

LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE'S IN THE WRONG TIER

+2 Sucker Punch on CB Scizor: 46.9% - 55.1%
+2 on Swords Dance Scizor: 57.1% - 67%

Yeah, fuck you bitch. That's what you get for spamming U-turn when I have hazards up.


+2 on Roopushin: 40.3% - 47.6%

Uh....I'm disguised as Salamence? :S

+2 on Lucario: ok, move along nothing to see here

 

[NDenizen]

I once tried using a Gengar set which would essentially "pretend to be Zoruark in disguise". It bombed.

I am still amazed at the amount of people who thought a Gengar using Substitute and Dark Pulse was apparently NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY.

 

[astrohawke]

I once tried using a Gengar set which would essentially "pretend to be Zoruark in disguise". It bombed.

I am still amazed at the amount of people who thought a Gengar using Substitute and Dark Pulse was apparently NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY.

I think most people just don't think too much about what's happening or don't really pay attention. Like if you have a gengar using dark pulse, I'm just gonna assume you're a dark pulse gengar using noob and switch to something that can take it. My 1st assumption would not be zoroark.

 

[voodoo pimp]

Substitute is not at all unusual on Gengar. Dark Pulse not so much, but it's overlookable.

 

[gabezj]

Dark pulse might be overlookable last gen but if the opponent sees that you have a Zoroark with team preview and then your gengar uses Dark pulse, theyll know its a Zoroark.

 

[Arc Tech]

Unless it's not... but Gengar doesn't really gain enough to justify it.

 

[voodoo pimp]

And both of them die to strong neutral hits anyway, so they might not even have to predict a lot of the time.

 

[alphatron]

Rather than gengar, Zoroark should be trying to pass himself off as shandera. Or vice versa. I used to have a log saved where my opponent had his lead machamp use dynamic punch against my lead shandera and then mentioned in the chat that he thought for sure I would be leading with Zoroark instead when he saw my team.

Yeah, Stealth rock is an issue, but not if you're using this thing as a lead. You can also carry a spinner or try to pass Zoroark off as something else later on in the match.

Of course, no one will question shandera using flamethrower even if it really isn't a shandera.

 

[gabezj]

Since team preview is a fact, we need to play Zoroark with it in mind, not in the way that would be most effective without team preview. the way to do this is to have your opponent overpredict a zoroark when the pokemon out is not a zoroark as well as normal illusion stuff. Alphtron's example of his opponent going for dynamic punch against Shandy is a good example of this. it seems to me that one of the best things Zoroark can do is nothing, not even leave its pokeball.

 

[sonickid01]

Zoroark can still work wonders even with the team preview. Although no one can count on their opponent simply not paying attention, Zoroark can add a new dimension entirely to the concept of mindgaming. Most ghost types are good to disguise as, it doesn't have to be Chandelure I forgot to save the log, but I had one match that involved me sending out scarf'd Zoroark illusioned as Jellicent (Burungeru? Not sure if that's the English name), then sweeping quickly while he struggled to figure out why none of his Pokemon could outspeed. As long as he can get in safely, you can play a lot of dirty tricks on your opponent (just don't lure fighting type moves by illusioning as a Normal or Steel type or something <_<). I really like using Zoroark, and like in Alphtron's example you'll just start confusing your opponents altogether, which is a huge advantage when the team preview is integral to the game now.

 

[CrystalAngel]

If you're using NP, then you're not using it right. Zoroak doesn't have enough speed or bulk to really sweep, and there are better stall breakers. Zoroak's purpose is to sucker-punch (not the actual move) your opponent's best check to your sweeper.

Honestly, I have to object here, even with team previews on.

My PO team runs Zoroark/Garchomp pretty well. I find Chomp forces a lot of switches to Nattorei and the likes. Send out disguised Zoroark on something Chomp scares away, Nasty Plot on the switch, smash whatever Chomp counter they brought out.

The only problem is outspeeding, but even then people don't seem to catch on.

 

[Arc Tech]

Honestly, I have to object here, even with team previews on.

My PO team runs Zoroark/Garchomp pretty well. I find Chomp forces a lot of switches to Nattorei and the likes. Send out disguised Zoroark on something Chomp scares away, Nasty Plot on the switch, smash whatever Chomp counter they brought out.

The only problem is outspeeding, but even then people don't seem to catch on.

If they see you NPing, then they should be switching to their zoroak counter/check next turn, not staying in against roak with their chomp counter.

 

[astrohawke]

Honestly, I have to object here, even with team previews on.

My PO team runs Zoroark/Garchomp pretty well. I find Chomp forces a lot of switches to Nattorei and the likes. Send out disguised Zoroark on something Chomp scares away, Nasty Plot on the switch, smash whatever Chomp counter they brought out.

The only problem is outspeeding, but even then people don't seem to catch on.

People don't catch on to nasty plot chomp?