What do you think is the most underrated Pokemon in OU? (Read the OP and Post #215)

[doughboy]

Oftentimes I hear the phrase "underrated" thrown around for Pokemon on the lower rung of the usage statistics. However, I really question whether some of those Pokemon are really underrated and wonder if they just plain stick.

So now is your chance to explain and justify your stance. (hopefully) In his process you convince me (and maybe others) that some Pokemon are really underated and deserved to be used. For our explanation, we will be following a specific definition of underrated:

A Pokemon is underrated if it provides a value, a characteristic, and/or a service to a team that is not recognized by the majority of players. It is this characteristic that has to benefit a team. This characteristic does not necessarily have to be unique to that Pokemon, but adds to its value if it can not be done by others as easily.

Thus, when explaining why a Pokemon is underrated it is necessary to explain what value or service it provides that is not recognized by the majority of players. So for my example:

I think that Roserade is perhaps one of the most underrated Pokemon in OU due her ability to set up Spikes against rain and volt-turn teams easily. While it receives competition from Ferrothorn in the role of setting up Spikes against Water types, Natural Cure makes it more comfortable to take burns from Scalds while setting up Spikes. By having a powerful HP fire while being an excellent counter to Rotom-W, Roserade makes one of the better ScizorWash (thus Volt-Turn) stoppers in the tier. Her ability to set up Spikes to limit switchs only cements this. Overall, Roserade's spike setting utility and ability to stop Volt-Turn are the qualities not seen by most players, making it underrated.

Correspondingly, what do you think is one of the more overrated Pokemon in the tier? To define what an overrated Pokemon is:

A Pokemon is overrated if it holds a quality or service that is overvalued by the majority of OU players or does not actually have the merits of the specific role it is stated to have. Overrated can also mean it does have an execellent quality or service, but it is detracted by some other overlooked, negative characteristic. The quality or role of that Pokemon does not have to be shared with other Pokemon, but if it does detract from its value if it can be done as effectively.

Again, it is necessary to detail the role and the value of that Pokemon that is overrated. Again, I will show through my own example.

Latios remains one of those Pokemon that I maintain has been overrated by OU players. Latios primarily has been used as a wall-breaker with the attachment of Choice Specs; the power of its Dragon moves unleashed at their full potential. However, its non-complimentary movepool detracts from its power and there remain more powerful wall-breaking options available. Particularly, Hydreigon offers better wall-breaking potential by having more power using its most common nature, Modest, and having access to powerful Fire, Fighting, and Ground moves. Latios also has the "overlooked problem" of being wary about when to use Draco Meteor, since #1 and #4 spots trap and kill the dragon even while switching in. Overall, Latios' wall-breaking potential is not as powerful as other unrecognized, special wall-breakers in tier and it remains easily trapped after one use of its most powerful move (Draco Meteor).

So get cracking and explaining fellows.

 

[Acritter]

Archeops, easily. It is capable of some VERY powerful blows on the physical spectrum (with some special backup), is viciously fast, and has great coverage. It can be used to knock holes in teams or clean them up, and although you can't switch it in on much it's a great recipient of slow switch moves and great for bringing in after deaths. Its primary weakness is, of course, SR, but it's still a fantastic Pokemon provided you have a team that needs what it can offer.

 

[FinalEquin0x]

Archeops, easily. It is capable of some VERY powerful blows on the physical spectrum (with some special backup), is viciously fast, and has great coverage. It can be used to knock holes in teams or clean them up, and although you can't switch it in on much it's a great recipient of slow switch moves and great for bringing in after deaths. Its primary weakness is, of course, SR, but it's still a fantastic Pokemon provided you have a team that needs what it can offer.

Archeops has 2 main reasons why it isn't OU worthy.

1) The biggest most obvious one is it's ability defeatist. When it gets below half-health, Both of his attack stats falter by 1/2. As a result he can't run hints like focus sash sets or even switch out with U-Turn because if rocks hits twice Defeatist auto activates.

2) Thus reason is much smaller and can almost be overlooked, However if he had a goodFlying type STAB technique, like say BraveBird. He'd be alot better, because all he really has is acrobatics and in order to use acro, you need a flying gem.

 

[rolrctermaniac]

Archeops has 2 main reasons why it isn't OU worthy.

1) The biggest most obvious one is it's ability defeatist. When it gets below half-health, Both of his attack stats falter by 1/2. As a result he can't run hints like focus sash sets or even switch out with U-Turn because if rocks hits twice Defeatist auto activates.

2) Thus reason is much smaller and can almost be overlooked, However if he had a goodFlying type STAB technique, like say BraveBird. He'd be alot better, because all he really has is acrobatics and in order to use acro, you need a flying gem.

lol brave bird and defeatist. though without its ability and an added brave bird it would be epic

 

[frogoholic101]

One pokemon I find incredibly underrated is Rotom-C. It is often shunned in favour of Rotom-W, because unlike C, it synergises well with Scizor for volt-turn and has a STAB move that doesn't lower Sp.Atk. It is also walled by Heatran unless it runs HP Ground. It has weaknesses to Fire, Ice, Bug, and Poison, which isn't too bad since it makes up for it by resisting Grass and Electric.

Where it shines, though, is its ability to wreck some Rain teams, and, if you're running Rain yourself, take out a lot of counters.

Gastrodon? Meet Leaf Storm. Rotom-W also falls to this too. Hidden Powers can be used to smash stuff you want to get rid of (Ice for Dragons who otherwise wall you, Fire for Steels, or Ground for Heatran). Obviously it can do all that Rotom-W can do, except it deals with literally all Water Type pokemon and that can be a godsend when that Gastrodon is toxicing everything on your team. Did I mention it can work just as well in Sun, too, something that Rotom-W wishes it could do? It has tremendous utility in every weather whilst destroying common volt-turn counters. Oh yeah, and it can counter volt-turn too, killing Scizor with Hidden Power and Rotom-W with Leaf Storm (though be careful about the -2 Sp.Atk).

I certainly think this Rotom Forme is underrated, since despite having a lot of utility in OU it is right down in RU. Seriously, Rotom-C needs some love.

 

[Dave]

Lilligant.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3462908

 

[bubbly]

Are we allowed to list sets, or just pokemon? If sets are allowed then I have to back Specs Jellicent, still being a solid spinblocker while just nuking ANYTHING in Rain.

Apart from that...Sigilyph, Kyurem, and Virizion I guess. Sigilyph is an annoying bastard and its not hard for him to cripple his few counters over a lengthy match. Kyurem beats Waters, Electrics and Grasses better than pretty much anything and packs some fierce offense (should always be used on Rain semistall imo for Tentacruel support and because it beats some of the biggest problems for Rain). Virizion finally seems to always get shafted in favour of Celebi or rubbish like that but literally nothing beats stall like Virizion does.

 

[CrackinSkulls]

BISHARP!!! seriously Bisharp needs some love. with paralysis support it is an absolute monster. a set like

Bisharp (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break/ Tuant

can rip holes in things. its giant base 125 attack couple with SD skyrockets to 766 after 1 boost. it performs a similar role to subsalac garchomp except instead of sand veil you are waiting out paralysis. Sucker Punch STABed is no slouch either dealing massive damage to unresisted foes. the only problem with Bisharp is is fraility and its very specific role as it can not "sweep" unless you have spread some paralysis. i is better just for taking out single threats individually. Still, it is an underrated monster especially couple with guys like ParaShuffler Dnite. another great thing about it is the offensive momentum it gives to the match in that if they switch you have a free sub and you can Sucker Punch or Swords Dance anyone breaking the sub. btw Archeops is also amazaing especially in the sand.

 

[Demist]

I think Azelf is kinda underated. It may be that we have a shitload of Psychic-types in OU, but Azelf is probably one of the most versatile mon. It's ability to run sets from support, to both offensive and mixed in conjunction with it's 125/125/115 offensive prowess and diverse movepool makes him more than effective. But I can't say anything, people use it with a huge success.

 

[FinalEquin0x]

Azelf is a great lead OU pokemon even with the installment of team preview. He's probably one of the better leads I've seen since Deo-S is gone. He has never not setup S-R for me and mine runs Shadow Ball for thee Espeons. He's a great pokemon and is really underated imo. Onto his wallbreaking abilities. He can use Flamethrower/Fire Blast to toast Skarmory and Psyshock to dominate Blissey. On top of it, he puts a really solid dent Into he entire metagame with a modest nature and that will usually become two hits thx to Focus Sash.

 

[Acritter]

Archeops has 2 main reasons why it isn't OU worthy.

1) The biggest most obvious one is it's ability defeatist. When it gets below half-health, Both of his attack stats falter by 1/2. As a result he can't run hints like focus sash sets or even switch out with U-Turn because if rocks hits twice Defeatist auto activates.

2) Thus reason is much smaller and can almost be overlooked, However if he had a goodFlying type STAB technique, like say BraveBird. He'd be alot better, because all he really has is acrobatics and in order to use acro, you need a flying gem.

Please try to actually USE Archeops. It isn't a Pokemon you can just throw onto teams, sure, but not every Pokemon can be Scizor. Prepare a team that can use it and give it a shot. The precise nature of your criticism shows me you haven't. Legitimate criticism is "it's hard to switch in" and "it's hard to put onto teams" and "it's easy to revenge", all of which any user of Archeops can tell you are VERY true.

To address your actual points: Archeops is a wallbreaker and a cleaner. Neither of those have to switch in very often. You get two switch-ins with SR up (hint: give it an odd HP total), and most of the time that's enough to do some VERY serious damage. Give it spin support, and things will improve dramatically. Acrobatics with Flight Gem is FANTASTIC. A 110BP move with 100% accuracy is already stellar, and when you factor in STAB it's just incredible. And really, what would be the alternatives? Life Orb? That's just setting a clock on yourself, most of the time. Choice items? It's hard enough to switch in already, now it's easier to get forced out. Leftovers? That's usually reserved for a Pokemon with some actual bulk. Brave Bird would be ABYSMAL on Archeops. It's easy enough to activate Defeatist as-is. It doesn't need help.

And to the guy who replied to him: even without Brave Bird, if you remove Defeatist you've got an easily OU Pokemon that's might even make it to Ubers.

 

[dragonuser]

Victrebell is a very underated sun sweeper in my mind. It's one main problem is its weakness to scizor's bullet punch, but on a sun team you often have many switch ins and some may even handicap scizor(switching into volcarona and getting flame body). By using weather ball + hp ice and either giga drain/leaf blade you get fantastic coverage. Alot of teams that prepare for venusaur are often dumbfounded about what to do verse Victrebell because of its amazing coverage and power.

 

[Scubasteve23]

I have always said that Porygon2 is very underrated. With properly placed EV's, eviolite, and recovery, he is a defensive monster. He is an excellent Pokemon to use to take out dragon types as well with ice beam.

 

[Joeyboy]

Staraptor

Seriously, I only see it once in a blue-moon but I swear I've never not lost a pokemon to its absurd Brave Bird/ Close Combat

 

[Cinccino]

Rotom-C: counters volt-turn abusers not named Landorus. Specs Leaf Storm is a Godsend.

Chloromons: We only have Venusaur up in OU while lots of them have potential: Victreebel, Shiftry, Sawsbuck.


Weavile: It fits perfectly with metagame filled with Outrage locked dragons. Don't use SD, it hardly get any chance to grab any boost. CB Low Kick does a lot to Ferro and easily OHKOes mons weak to it (TTar, Heatran, CB Terra and stuff).

Also seconding Staraptor & Azelf :3

 

[Careful]

Regirock. The oh-so-common Sandstorm easily allows it to wall both sides of the spectrum, and doesn't afraid of anything. No really, with Rest / Curse / Drain Punch / Sleep Talk this thing can easily stay in with easy recovery with its' attack. The only thing it needs to fear is being out of sand and in the rain/sun teams with Grass types, and Ghost types (Gengars and stray Dusclops and Dusknoirs). Also isn't afraid of status problems.

 

[Razza]

Rotom-C: counters volt-turn abusers not named Landorus. Specs Leaf Storm is a godsend

Yeh rotom-c sure does counter voltturn, it's not like uturn is supe effective versus it or anything... And there's no way Scizor ohkos it or that celebi completely dominates it...

In terms of pokes with low usage I would have to say that Chansey is the best mon with low usage in OU, it just flat out Walls half the metagame being able to take almost any special hit and having the equivalent of swamperts defense of something ridiculous like that. I've had my adamant LO mamoswine recover stalled by chanseys before, and I've used it to sponge outrages before if the need arises.

 

[frogoholic101]

Yeh rotom-c sure does counter voltturn, it's not like uturn is supe effective versus it or anything... And there's no way Scizor ohkos it or that celebi completely dominates it...

Yeh there's no way Rotom-C outspeeds scizor and kills it with HP Fire or that Leaf Storm OHKOs Rotom-W...

 

[peng]

Rotom-C is really good, but i really prefer the defensive set over the choiced sets. iirc its the only Grass-type to get Will-O-Wisp, which allows you to cripple Scizor whilst outright walling Rotom-W. Landorus also isn't actually that good an answer to it either; it definitely can't switch-in thanks to Will-O-Wisp and whilst its U-Turns are threatening they aren't coming near to an OHKO with Max HP and a little Defense investment. Pain Split or ChestoRest give you decent methods of recovery too. Probably the most underrated and most anti-metagame Pokemon around.

 

[Honus]

Tangrowth is still good!

Seriously this thing is absolutely amazing; sure it loses to Scizor, but it's able to beat a plethora of other Pokemon and is pretty close to a CB Terrakion counter since it can't be 2HKOd by it without prior damage and can always switch out and recover damage back, so you can take CB Terrakion's hits all day. It's also a great Dragonite counter with Sleep Powder/Hidden Power Ice and the fact that it can tank even boosted Outrages and Fire Punches. Tangrowth is absolutely fantastic this gen, especially in rain where it can even take hits from stuff like Heatran and Infernape before KOing them with Earthquake. Tangrowth also crushes Taunt+SD Gliscor which people sometimes use to break stall.

 

[alexwolf]

Rotom-C is good if your only concern is Scrotom, but when Landorus comes into the mix, things become troublesome. If Landorus is scarfed, then it simply u-turns, doing 50% or more, and goes to a counter/check. If it is non-scarfed, and you are Scarfed, then things are ok, since Modest Leaf Storm does 81,56%-95,94%, 56,25% chance to ohko after SR.

Scrotom chains with Celebi are also difficult for Rotom-C to beat, since Celebi walls you, and after you use Volt-Switch it will simply use U-turn and get the Volt-turn combo rolling again.

This doesn't mean that Rotom-C is bad for handling Volt-turn teams(it is quite good), just that it needs to be careful of Celebi and Scarf Landorus.

Tangrowth is still good!

Seriously this thing is absolutely amazing; sure it loses to Scizor, but it's able to beat a plethora of other Pokemon and is pretty close to a CB Terrakion counter since it can't be 2HKOd by it without prior damage and can always switch out and recover damage back, so you can take CB Terrakion's hits all day. It's also a great Dragonite counter with Sleep Powder/Hidden Power Ice and the fact that it can tank even boosted Outrages and Fire Punches. Tangrowth is absolutely fantastic this gen, especially in rain where it can even take hits from stuff like Heatran and Infernape before KOing them with Earthquake. Tangrowth also crushes Taunt+SD Gliscor which people sometimes use to break stall.

Tangrowth doesn't really lose to Scizor, since it can tank a hit losing around 60% from a CB U-turn iirc, use Leech Seed or Sleep Powder on the switch-in and then switch out. Also, while technically it isn't a CB Terrakion counter, i would call it one, if you also have a solid Fighting resist in your team, because you lose ~48% from a CB CC, and then switch out on your Fighting resist, having lost around 27%, with SR up.

Anyway totally agreeing with you, Tangrowth is pretty good, if you know how to use it!

 

[kd24]

is quagsire still not ou? i vote for that thing, it can wall so much ridiculous shit in b/w because on unaware, recover, and good stats. sure it loses to rain teams but a lot of the time, i can be building a team and say wow sd terrakion and sd scizor and dd lum nite and etc etc fuck me up, o wait lol quagsire!

 

[Razza]

Yeh there's no way Rotom-C outspeeds scizor and kills it with HP Fire or that Leaf Storm OHKOs Rotom-W...

yeh there is no way that "counter" means you have to be able to switch into the threat safely and survive..... and there is no way that i never mentioned rotom-w at all...

 

[alexwolf]

yeh there is no way that "counter" means you have to be able to switch into the threat safely and survive..... and there is no way that i never mentioned rotom-w at all...

By countering Volt-turn abusers he meant, that he can come in against Rotom-W, and break the chain as he forces out Scizor. Not that he counters both Scizor and Rotom-W.

 

[frogoholic101]

Rotom-C is good if your only concern is Scrotom, but when Landorus comes into the mix, things become troublesome. If Landorus is scarfed, then it simply u-turns, doing 50% or more, and goes to a counter/check. If it is non-scarfed, and you are Scarfed then things are ok though, since Modest Leaf Storm does 81,56%-95,94%, 56,25% chance to ohko after SR.

Also Scrotom chains with Celebi are also difficult for Rotom-C to beat, since Celebi walls you, and after you use Volt-Switch it will simply use U-turn and get the Volt-turn combo rolling again.

This doesn't mean that Rotom-C is bad for handling Volt-turn teams(it is quite good), just that it needs to be careful of Celebi and Scarf Landorus.

What's to say Rotom-C itself won't Volt Switch too? I use a Pain Split set with Volt Switch, and the only problem is Landorus-which is a predictable switch in and dies to Leaf Storm after SR, as you say. Pain Split is a decent recovery and Will-O-Wisp can be used to burn stuff for some more residual damage (though I prefer HP Fire). Against common volt-switchers:

Celebi: Volt Switch out/Pain Split
Rotom-W: Hammer it with Leaf Storm
Scizor: HP Fire
Landorus: Leaf Storm and KO, hopefully

If one of the above is going to switch, then it can be predicted and you can use the correct move. Rotom-C really does help against Volt-Turn, and while it can't destroy all the members, just show me one pokemon that can. Keep in mind it can Volt Switch itself :)

EDIT: Yeh you don't come in on Scizor, I assumed we understand walking in on a super effective move is stupid. It comes in on Rotom-W, which breaks the chain.