October 2012 OU / Suspect Stats

[AJC]

not to mention it is ludicrously easy to safely get RP genesect in thanks to volt-turn.

and it shares the same typing as all the other bug/steels so you have a plenty of resists and it's defenses are not that terrible so if you have to switch in normally your not totally screwed.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Well, these usage stats are quite a mixed bag to say the very least.

| 1 | Genesect | 145258 | 18.759% | 126041 | 20.139% |
| 1 | Genesect | 11417 | 50.549% | 10233 | 52.536% |

Lol. King of OU everywhere. All Hail our new king, Genesect!

| 2 | Politoed | 131347 | 16.962% | 120412 | 19.240% |
| 2 | Politoed | 6337 | 28.057% | 5862 | 30.095% |

Likewise. Politoed and his rain teams are dominating OU.

| 43 | Keldeo | 40073 | 5.175% | 31355 | 5.010% |
| 5 | Keldeo | 5664 | 25.077% | 4575 | 23.488% |

Seems like one of OU's biggest secrets.

| 20 | Cloyster | 68587 | 8.857% | 53586 | 8.562% |

Lol. How did this get a sudden rush in popularity?

| 34 | Vaporeon | 50913 | 6.575% | 39961 | 6.385% |

Quite impressive considering I hardly see this thing.

| 41 | Haxorus | 42691 | 5.513% | 32319 | 5.164% |

How the mighty have fallen...

| 46 | Latias | 37620 | 4.858% | 29448 | 4.705% |

I fear this might very well drop to UU if this keeps up.

| 48 | Celebi | 34077 | 4.401% | 27154 | 4.339% |

LOL. How the mighty have fallen. He's really having a lot of meta-related pressure. I hope it doesn't drop to UU.

| 49 | Reuniclus | 33914 | 4.380% | 26549 | 4.242% |

Why so low?

| 52 | Landorus-Therian | 28576 | 3.690% | 24174 | 3.863% |

I feel really bad for this guy. He might very well end up in UU. Seems as though his Incarnate cousin getting Sheer Force has gotten the crowd. Poor Landorus-T, I knew you well.

| 55 | Chansey | 27011 | 3.488% | 21364 | 3.414% |

This needs to exit OU. Like some of the other OU Poke's (sigh, Infernape and Metagross), it is dead weight and really should only be seen as such.

| 56 | Abomasnow | 23077 | 2.980% | 20730 | 3.312% |

No, we can't let this thing drop! We can't!

| 77 | Xatu | 12562 | 1.622% | 10260 | 1.639% |
| 86 | Stoutland | 10500 | 1.356% | 7995 | 1.277% |

Shameful! These two need at least two percent usage in OU! Xatu is a great user of Magic Bounce, and U-Turn gives it an advantage over Espeon, while Stoutland is an amazing revenge killer in sand! How must these two be so lowly used?

| 105 | Virizion | 7545 | 0.974% | 5871 | 0.938% |

Lol. A Pokemon who was once OU now fails to even get 1% usage in OU. This is kinda surprising, tbh.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

| 55 | Chansey | 27011 | 3.488% | 21364 | 3.414% |

This needs to exit OU. It's a dead weight Pokemon and should be treated as such. You're seriously better off running a special wall like Blissey or Tyranitar who aren't sitting ducks like Chansey. Also, it's not cut out for a metagame with Loom, Terrakion, Ttar, and to a smaller extent Hippo and Abomasnow.

Please enlighten me how how Blissey provides amazing amounts of offensive pressure to ensure that a Terrakion and Breloom will not sweep. Or better yet, tell us more about how a pokemon's weaknesses can never be solved via teammates.

You know what forget about all of that, tell me more about how Hippowdon is smashing through Chansey when it can't 2HKO with earthquake is is slower.

 

[Lady Alex]

| 55 | Chansey | 27011 | 3.488% | 21364 | 3.414% |

This needs to exit OU. It's a dead weight Pokemon and should be treated as such. You're seriously better off running a special wall like Blissey or Tyranitar who aren't sitting ducks like Chansey. Also, it's not cut out for a metagame with Loom, Terrakion, Ttar, and to a smaller extent Hippo and Abomasnow.

That statement is bad and you should feel bad. Chansey is very often a much better choice than Blissey for Rain teams or more balance oriented Sun teams. The extra bulk Chansey has with eviolite makes a big difference against threats such as Tornadus-T and Genesect.

 

[Gary]

This needs to exit OU. It's a dead weight Pokemon and should be treated as such. You're seriously better off running a special wall like Blissey or Tyranitar who aren't sitting ducks like Chansey. Also, it's not cut out for a metagame with Loom, Terrakion, Ttar, and to a smaller extent Hippo and Abomasnow.

Chansey is a better SpD wall with Eviolite then Blissey I'm pretty sure, the only thing it lacks is Leftovers recovery which is easily patched with Softboiled or Wish. In my opinion, I'd rather go up against a Blissey then a Chansey because Chansey walls special attacks for weeks.

 

[alkinesthetase]

You're seriously better off running a special wall like Blissey or Tyranitar who aren't sitting ducks like Chansey

wait blissey is less of a sitting duck than chansey?

i mean they're both pretty meh right now but lol they both only do damage with seismic toss and toxic, i'm not feeling the comparison

 

[Wizarus]

Difference is that Chansey can wall threats alot better thanks to that flat-out better physical bulk and 20% more SPD.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

wait blissey is less of a sitting duck than chansey?

i mean they're both pretty meh right now but lol they both only do damage with seismic toss and toxic, i'm not feeling the comparison

At the very least, Blissey at least has limited offensive prowess. If you wanted to, you could run Flamethrower to cook Ferrothorn, Genesect, and Forry (And Scizor too!), or even Ice Beam or Thunderbolt for Gliscor/D-Nite or Gyara/Jellicent if you really wanted to (but not recommended). Chansey can't do that. So Blissey is somewhat less of a sitting duck than Chansey.

Speaking of which, I will take back the part about Loom and Terra since other special walls DO in fact die to them (Our other special walls in OU are Blisset, Ttar, and Tran, all weak to Fighting).

 

[Whyyyyy]

Of course it's all the usual ugly mothafuckas that are being used the most

Yall niggas crazy as FUCK. Yall know damn well that rain and genesect wipe the florr with everyfucking thing. Sun and sand too. Yall wack ass niggas just want to spam weatehr without putting any thought into your teams. All yall niggas stupid.

Matthew edit:
you're done

 

[Gary]

At the very least, Blissey at least has limited offensive prowess. If you wanted to, you could run Flamethrower to cook Ferrothorn, Genesect, and Forry (And Scizor too!), or even Ice Beam or Thunderbolt for Gliscor/D-Nite or Gyara/Jellicent if you really wanted to (but not recommended). Chansey can't do that. So Blissey is somewhat less of a sitting duck than Chansey.

Speaking of which, I will take back the part about Loom and Terra since other special walls DO in fact die to them (Our other special walls in OU are Blisset, Ttar, and Tran, all weak to Fighting).

I honestly don't see why you continue to call them sitting ducks? Chansey and Blissey are both perfectly viable in OU with their amazing supporting move pool and tanking abilities. Ever heard of the annoying Skarmbliss combination? If you depend on Blissey to be your entire team wall, then yeah it's a "sitting duck" however when combined with something to take physical moves such as Skarmory or Gliscor, Blissey can be a great team member. Being the highest Wishers in the entire game with moves such as Toxic, T-Wave, and Softboiled they can last a very long time. If you really want to try something, put Counter on Chansey, and if something tries to hit you with a physical move that can't OHKO her but deal decent damage, you can really surprise and most likely take out some physical attackers.

 

[/B/utterfree]

At the very least, Blissey at least has limited offensive prowess. If you wanted to, you could run Flamethrower to cook Ferrothorn, Genesect, and Forry (And Scizor too!), or even Ice Beam or Thunderbolt for Gliscor/D-Nite or Gyara/Jellicent if you really wanted to (but not recommended). Chansey can't do that. So Blissey is somewhat less of a sitting duck than Chansey.

Speaking of which, I will take back the part about Loom and Terra since other special walls DO in fact die to them (Our other special walls in OU are Blisset, Ttar, and Tran, all weak to Fighting).

I use Blissey in a recently constructed team with Abomasnow, Kyurem-B, and Scrafty. One of the primary things I do is give it Blizzard so it can take advantage of the Hail whilst otherwise Aromatherapy-ing the team. In the right hands, Blissey is nowhere near as much as a sitting duck as you might believe. Especially since Skarmbliss, while defensive in playstyle the way I like, also gave me nightmares during Gen III.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

That whole "choosing Chansey means you drop the ability to use Special attacks" notion needs to stop getting kicked around. Even considering weather, nobody uses Special attacks on Blissey. You'll see somebody once in a blue moon with one, but really. People stopped running Ice Beam or Flamethrower back in the middle of DP. Today, as long as you play her right, Chansey is a much bigger pain than Blissey, due to the sheer walling prowess she has. I'd much rather face Blissey than get stuck by her.

 

[ElectivireRocks]

People stopped running Ice Beam or Flamethrower back in the middle of DP.

Only to swiftly go back to Flamethrower/Ice Beam once they realized they were giving Scizor/Dragons/Ghosts 100% safe switch-ins depending on her status move of choice.
Thunder Wave and no Ice Beam? Garchomp, Thundurus-T and Landorus say hi.
Toxic and no Flamethrower? Genesect, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Scizor and Gengar would like a word with you.

At least Blissey has just enough special attack to scare those potential switch-ins off, something that Chansey will never be able to cover in one set unless for some weird reason you run Toxic, Thunder Wave AND Seismic Toss on Chansey. The fourth move would have to be Softboiled, so you'd be giving up Aromatherapy and Wish, Chansey's most useful move.

I'd rather stick to Blissey and my special attacks, thank you very much.

 

[Wizarus]

Only to swiftly go back to Flamethrower/Ice Beam once they realized they were giving Scizor/Dragons/Ghosts 100% safe switch-ins depending on her status move of choice.
Thunder Wave and no Ice Beam? Garchomp, Thundurus-T and Landorus say hi.
Toxic and no Flamethrower? Genesect, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Scizor and Gengar would like a word with you.

At least Blissey has just enough special attack to scare those potential switch-ins off, something that Chansey will never be able to cover in one set unless for some weird reason you run Toxic, Thunder Wave AND Seismic Toss on Chansey. The fourth move would have to be Softboiled, so you'd be giving up Aromatherapy and Wish, Chansey's most useful move.

I'd rather stick to Blissey and my special attacks, thank you very much.

And lose to everything that is neutral or resistant to your attacking move, and can set-up Substitute?

 

[Siggu]

Nowadays, there's almost no reason to run Blissey without Special Attacks

If you want a pink blob whose only means of attacking are Toxic and Seismic Toss, choose Chansey, at it's not 2HKOed by as many attacks as Blissey is, as the difference in bulk is very noticeable, even if we consider Leftovers

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Uh... what. Please if you haven't played with Chansey and Blissey please stop talking.

First off, Blissey's special attacks, namely flamethrower, are generally useless. BUT they can have a niche use on teams, for example flamethrower Blissey can in fact counter Vensuaur (if you run 6 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD bold) and if you run speedy Blissey, you can outspeed Scizor and roast it, which alieves the pressure of volt-turn teams, meaning you are not as obligated to run a specialized pokemon for volt-turn (although this may not be as good because of Genesect...). Note though, that both of those are extremely niche uses, its only if you need a pokemon for that, and you need a general special wall, that you run Blissey with flamethrower. And even then, you don't use other moves, you use the standard Blissey movepool (soft boiled / toxic / siesmic toss) because you NEED all those other moves. Overall, running Blissey with special attacks is pretty much analogous to running it with wish, aromatherapy, or stealth rock, all of them are extra moves you tack on to fill niche in your team. The rest of the set remains roughly the same (maybe protect > softboiled if you run wish).

The main differences between Chansey and Blissey are subtle, and they both depend a lot of team building. First off, if you run a hail or sand team, you don't use Chansey, you just don't. But outside of that, it takes a lot of play to see which is more effective. Does chansey leave your team weaker to special attackers in the hail/sand? Or does Blissey leave you more open to mixed attackers. It can take some play to figure out which is more beneficial to your team, you can't really outright say one if better than the other because its not true.

 

[Chimera404]

My personal opinion as a UU player and part-time OU dabbler:

1. Don't let Chansey drop, please, we were very thankful when it left the first time.
2. Since Hail was unbanned in the last UU Suspect round, I think I can safely say,
PLEASE LET ABOMASNOW DROP
So that we don't have to use Snover as Hailsetter.
3. Celebi and Lando-T really wouldn't affect the meta too much; Celebi with its tremendous weaknesses and Lando-T with mediocre speed... They fit right in with the power scaling, imo, so I wouldn't be too unhappy with the drop.
4. Reuniclus must not drop. It's too good for UU, especially when combined with Trick Room powerhouses like Cofagrigus, Victini, and Escavalier.

OK, comments about the general situation aside...

@/B/utterfree, just a question, how does your team deal with... uh, Lucario? Cobalion? Heracross? Terrakion? Any strong Fighting type? Part of the problem with Blissey is that you really need a solid fighting-type counter, and with stuff like Terrakion and Keldeo running around, the meta's not being very friendly to our favorite pink blobs.

@ScarfWynaut, isn't speedy Blissey a specialized Pokemon in the first place? Blissey's versatility lies mostly in its movepool, but it doesn't have the stats to back it up in the first place. It can fulfill a bunch of niche roles, but not the multipurpose ones that the meta needs. You can run Flamethrower and max speed to torch Scizor and co. but then you can't sponge a pair of Politoed's Specs Hydro Pumps in the rain, or whatever ridiculous special attack that Blissey is generally used to counter.

I like using Blissey, but there's a point when you have to acknowledge that the new meta is not treating her well.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Yeah I don't know if speedy Blissey is even viable anymore, volt-turn has dropped off in useage for some reason + you know, Blissey isn't out speeding Genesect. The drop in defenses wasn't to bad, if you balanced the defenses right you would barely notice. Its not really specialized, but more of something one would but on if you needed it, again like all of Blissey's other things. But yeah its dropped off the map (for now), so there isn't much use discussing it anymore.

 

[Nyara]

Chansey = Blissey, it just depends of what you need, really, they both are great Pokémon, anyway, for being the best special walls of the entire game.

With respect of Genesect, 50%+ on suspect is just huge, really huge, it should be banned? I think yes, but what it says if it should banned or not is it's win ratio, one thing is being the most used, and other is being the greatest winner with certain margin, a broken Pokémon is not the one who is most used, is the who can't be really defeated at all (except by itself, thing to take in account with this outstanding percent, too). I support the Genesect ban because: it can only be countered by itself, actually, and it have a really small number of hard counter that can't do anything else than counter him (and nobody can counter him at 100%). So, he's an easy option to take, to abuse, and to win (because I feel it somewhat broken).

A Pokémon who can't be countered by nobody at even 75% of times is broken, at least for me. Anyway, a Genesect ban could help to improve (a lot) the variety inside OU, because more than the half of the people will start to using other Pokémon, and that will bring a good number of changes.

 

[New World Order]

Why the fuck is Infernape ahead of Keldeo?

 

[Arcticblast]

Probably because of U-Turn, its ability to check Genesect, and the fact that you're comparing a badass flaming monkey to a silly little water pony. That said, Infernape is getting less and less useful these days, especially when its best STABs all have serious drawbacks (Flare Blitz has recoil, Overheat and Close Combat drop stats, Fire Blast and Focus Blast have accuracy issues). The analysis paints a pretty rosy picture of it too...

USE THE SILLY LITTLE WATER PONY MORE

 

[dragonuser]

If you look at the OU Suspect usage you can see that Keldeo has 25% usage, which I think is much more representative of its dominance in the metagame. Keldeo is easily one of the best scarfers at the moment. It also has good versatility and can run CM sets or Specs sets as well. Also the fact that Tornadus-T and Keldeo are both behind Infernape in regular OU usage stats makes me much more skeptical of the usefulness of these stats as Keldeo/Tornadus-T are metagame defining forces while Infernape is rarely seen in higher level matches. It is definitely interesting to note the difference in usage between the two OU usage stats. If I were forced to say, I would have to say the different playerbases between the two ladders is the main cause for difference in usage.

 

[Lavos]

If you look at the OU Suspect usage you can see that Keldeo has 25% usage, which I think is much more representative of its dominance in the metagame. Keldeo is easily one of the best scarfers at the moment. It also has good versatility and can run CM sets or Specs sets as well. Also the fact that Tornadus-T and Keldeo are both behind Infernape in regular OU usage stats makes me much more skeptical of the usefulness of these stats as Keldeo/Tornadus-T are metagame defining forces while Infernape is rarely seen in higher level matches. It is definitely interesting to note the difference in usage between the two OU usage stats. If I were forced to say, I would have to say the different playerbases between the two ladders is the main cause for difference in usage.

Essentially this. We shouldn't be focusing on the regular OU stats, as far as I can tell the suspect stats mean a lot more as they're representative of better players who are laddering more seriously with an intent in mind (to get voting reqs). I'm too lazy to look, but I'm betting that Infernape saw less than a 5% usage on suspect ladder. The fact of the matter is, Keldeo is the best revenge killer in the game right now, surpassing even Genesect in that regard, and it's going to be this way for a while, I'd imagine. Its limited movepool belies its hidden versatility; it's actually capable of revenge killing most, if not all, relevant boosting sweepers in the OU metagame. Under Rain, its STAB Hydro Pump is boosted to unreal levels of power, forcing every decent OU team to carry at least one check to the monster. Secret Sword is as reliable as it's ever been, and Hidden Power Ice, while not quite Ice Beam, still does the trick on Dragonite and Salamence, as well as Yache-less Garchomp. There's no denying the impact this little pony has had on the BW2 metagame.

 

[Stone RG]

I still dont get why people keep assuming keldeo (or rather its scarf set, which is by far the most used) will always be on a rain team. I do agree that on a rain team, it is a power analogous to Kyogre in Ubers (which comes from an Ubers player btw), but honestly enough, Scarf Keldeo is a pokemon that is just suited for Sand, everyone at this point should know about the core CB Tar + Scarf Keldeo, which turns Keldeo into a late game sweeper just as effective as Lucario was in 4th gen, and entire rain teams fall to pieces to its dual STAB once tentacruel is gone.

On the other hand, i see keldeo, as lavos said, as the best revenge killer in the game, and easily the bane of every stall team is found in the Specs set, which in the rain has nothing to envy from King Kyogre, CM sets are (in my opinion) much harder to play since in this metagame you boost your speed or you dont sweep (which isnt Terrakion's case, but you know, its Terrakion).

 

[PDC]

I can't say I didn't expect these stats. I mean really, Genesect being #1 this fast was no surprise and really didn't give us any surprises. Genesect is a very versatile Pokemon that can just run so many sets and is plain out unpredictable. It can fit on basically every single team, even on stall to outspeed and check threats. I really don't like where this is heading, but I can say that it will probably stay like this for at least a little while. It is overshadowing pretty much everything but the few other top ranked Pokemon. The closest thing to Genesect in this metagame would have to be Terrakion who is equally as strong, much faster, and at least somewhat versatile. Terrakion doesn't however earn a boost to either attack on the switch in, which gives Genesect an advantage on the weak stat allowing for it to max out damage output. It's not even a question if Genesect is great or good in this metagame or metagames to come, as for as long as he is OU he is going to shape at least part of it. Being the face of offense with his RP set that has just been unearthed and the ever common Scarf set. I don't know where I stand on this, whether broken or not. But I can for sure say he is impacting the metagame in a very huge way.

Rain is still the top weather with Politoed at #2 and being one of the newest sensations of the metagame with rain being improved. Valentine Rain has basically been what I have been seeing on the ladder and it is very annoying. There are definitely different options for rain sweepers than Tornadus - T. Expert Belt Thundurus - T is a great choice for offensive rain as it can destroy many teams with ease. Even better it can function as a stall breaker of sorts with momentum gaining and power boosted super effective moves from Expert Belt. Life Orb Gastrodon is also a boss. It is a pretty cool Pokemon and has been one of my favorite choices for an offensive water type since BW1. And with the amount of Rotom-W using Will-O-Wisp has been dropping for Thunder Wave it has became a sensation for defeating them with no problem at all. Breloom is also a great choice for offensive rain when paired with Tornadus - T to gain momentum when facing stuff like Blissey, Rotom-W or other steel types. Rain dominating the metagame was foreshadowed for a very long time and was pretty obvious from the start.

I am pretty sure everybody knows by now, but Keldeo being #45 is just outrageous and really needs to be fixed pronto. Keldeo may have been called trash in early BW2, but it has come apparent to almost all players by now that it is a huge threat and is capable of trashing teams no matter what weather it may be. I have been crushed by Scarf Keldeo with a simple layer of Stealth Rock and Spikes up, allowing it to 2HKO everything on my team. It is a really great Pokemon with it's Scarf and Choice Specs sets which just decimate everything. Icy Wind is a pretty cool move on Choice Specs as with a layer of Stealth Rock it allows you to beat both Latios and Latias if they are not holding a Choice Scarf. I have also been liking Reuniclus in this metagame. Simply beat up the opponents team a little with hazards and you automatically have a high chance of winning with it on frail offensive teams. Sadly the time of Trick Room is very limited, so it is prime to use it late game when you at least have some time to finish everything up in at least 1-2 hits to minimize the time wasted. I have always been a fan if this Pokemon and it has not seen some real usage since probably 2011 in Round 3. It is a great Pokemon and I really would like to see more people using it. If it's defenses matched it's offenses then it would really have a better chance at being called a top tier threat in this metagame. I would suggest using this Poke to anybody who appreciates a strong immediate force in their team. Being immune to hazards and most status ailments is a huge bonus for a sweeper.