How Tyranitar is a solid answer to Mamoswine ... ?
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
OU Cores in the BW2 Metagame
- Thread starter -Rockstar-
- Start date
Mind putting down the set you're using, I'm kind of curious.
no, he said a sand inducer, and a solid answer to Mamoswine. I think the 'solid answer to Mamoswine' would be great in the form of Slowbro. It doesn't take anything from Mamoswine, resisting all of its moves bar EQ and Stone Edge, which are neutral. It can also hit other Dragons with Ice beam, and nab steels with Fire Blast. It's a great partner for Salamence.
Also, there is absolutely no EV spread for Meloetta-P that can guaranteedly KO Tornadus-T after SR and outspeed it at the same time. This calculation does not include damage from Relic Song.
Meloetta-P needs a spread of at least 200 EVs and a positive nature to outspeed max speed Tornadus-T. However, even with 252 EVs into Attack, Meloetta-P still needs a positive nature to ensure the KO. Because it needs a positive nature to both outspeed Tornadus-T AND KO it with Ice Punch, this is physically impossible.
However, a crazy EV spread of 252 Atk / 56 SpA / 200 Spe with Naive can outspeed Tornadus-T, and then KO it with Ice Punch after Relic Song and SR on the switch. However, this is not an efficient spread, because Meloetta is at is fullest potential when all of its EVs are focused on one form.
Though I'm a big fan of Slowbro myself, Banded EQ from 252 Attack EVs neutral nature Mamoswine has a 40% chance to 2HKO after SR and Leftovers recovery, so it really can't switch in. LO versions can't 2HKO unless they're Adamant, but Slowbro can't simply Regenerate the damage taken anyway, and it will have to switch twice on weak moves in order to go back to full health... and I learnt it the hard way (that is, first taking the hits expecting to suffer less damage, and then calculating it)
About Meloetta, I think you can modify the EV spread of the set alkinesthetase linked to make it outspeed Tornadus-T and KO with Thunderbolt (in Pirouette Forme) after SR. That would make it less useful as a physical attacker, but I guess it can work if you're having trouble with T-T and don't wanna resort to Mamoswine.
About Meloetta, I think you can modify the EV spread of the set alkinesthetase linked to make it outspeed Tornadus-T and KO with Thunderbolt (in Pirouette Forme) after SR. That would make it less useful as a physical attacker, but I guess it can work if you're having trouble with T-T and don't wanna resort to Mamoswine.
^ Idk if you're replying to my post electrolyte, but you miss the point of the spread, and set, if you're recommending a 252/252+ set for meloetta.
firstly i see almost no reason to run max speed meloetta-P when there are no relevant base 125s in OU. I guess you can try to outrun scarf scizor or something? 252+ ties with +1 base 69s and still doesn't outrun scarf base 70s (eg politoed). The closest thing to meloetta is tornadus t, which as we have both observed is outrun in pirouette with 200+ investment. skymin, weavile, swellow and darkrai are the only things between tornadus-T and meloetta-P - hardly relevant to OU. Those extra 56 EVs can easily go somewhere else.
Secondly, ice punch is not the only move you have that can threaten tornadus. It may be the only physical move you have that can threaten it, but mixed sets are mixed for a reason. as i mentioned in my post, 252 satk investment off 77 base using an LO nonstab tbolt deals min 78% to naive tornadus-T, always ohko after stealth rock. (56 atk / 252 satk / 200+ spd @ life orb meloetta-P. hardly a crazy or inefficient set.) You don't even need to be in aria forme to guarantee this kill. (Ebelt has 75% of ohko after SR). To me, this sounds like a set that guarantees outspeeding tornadus-T and also ohkoing it after stealth rock, so I'm not exactly sure what your argument is. I would consider tbolt and cc mandatory for any mixmeloetta - from there, 252 attack EVs if running ice punch (sadly still not guaranteed OHKO after SR), or 252 spatk EVs if running hp ice. Invest more heavily in the type of attack you have more of. not very complicated
EDIT: blacklight, the set is based on shrang's as i linked in my previous post, but with an extra 8 speed to outrun tornadus-T, otherwise it's the same
firstly i see almost no reason to run max speed meloetta-P when there are no relevant base 125s in OU. I guess you can try to outrun scarf scizor or something? 252+ ties with +1 base 69s and still doesn't outrun scarf base 70s (eg politoed). The closest thing to meloetta is tornadus t, which as we have both observed is outrun in pirouette with 200+ investment. skymin, weavile, swellow and darkrai are the only things between tornadus-T and meloetta-P - hardly relevant to OU. Those extra 56 EVs can easily go somewhere else.
Secondly, ice punch is not the only move you have that can threaten tornadus. It may be the only physical move you have that can threaten it, but mixed sets are mixed for a reason. as i mentioned in my post, 252 satk investment off 77 base using an LO nonstab tbolt deals min 78% to naive tornadus-T, always ohko after stealth rock. (56 atk / 252 satk / 200+ spd @ life orb meloetta-P. hardly a crazy or inefficient set.) You don't even need to be in aria forme to guarantee this kill. (Ebelt has 75% of ohko after SR). To me, this sounds like a set that guarantees outspeeding tornadus-T and also ohkoing it after stealth rock, so I'm not exactly sure what your argument is. I would consider tbolt and cc mandatory for any mixmeloetta - from there, 252 attack EVs if running ice punch (sadly still not guaranteed OHKO after SR), or 252 spatk EVs if running hp ice. Invest more heavily in the type of attack you have more of. not very complicated
EDIT: blacklight, the set is based on shrang's as i linked in my previous post, but with an extra 8 speed to outrun tornadus-T, otherwise it's the same
Latios @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Roost
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 236 HP / 212 SDef / 60 Spe
Nature: Careful
- Spore
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Bulk Up
Politoed @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SAtk / 36 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Hydropump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Grass]
- Perish Song
This is a pretty nice offensive core that I like to use. To begin with, Politoed sets up the rain, which benefits both Latios and Breloom, while spamming high powered Hydropumps that do serious damage to things that don't resist them. Latios and Breloom help by defending the rain - Latios is able to help against Sun teams if played wisely, between offsetting their weather and OHKOing and 2HKOing almost everything sun teams have to offer via Draco Meteor. Breloom helps against opposing Sand and Rain teams quite a bit, though not as much anymore for rain teams due to the introduction of powerful new Rain Sweepers in Keldeo and Tornadus-T, but it can still hold its ground nicely, and the three other teammates can work to patch up the weaknesses it may have. Lastly, this core is weak to hail, but once again, teammates play an important function in patching that up.
Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Taunt
- Roar
Breloom (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Low Sweep
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge
Starmie @ Choice Specs
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
Balanced FWG core for me. Heatran and Starmie go quite neatly together, as Heatran sets up Stealth Rock while Starmie can beat a few spinners with little trouble. It can also get rid of hazards on the team's side, and beat a few things that threaten Heatran. Breloom just destroys stuff like Latios with Low Sweep, and revenge kills threats and weakens them to the point where Starmie can blast them away with a powerful Ice Beam or Hydro Pump. Between this core, I resist most, of not all, of the types.
in terms of typing, any of the classic triangles will probably make a viable core, ie where each member of the triangle is SE on one guy and NVE on the other. fwg is the most obvious one but fight/dark/psych is another classic example. the problem is that besides being able to cover each other, the triangles need to be able to cover mons outside themselves altogether. i think that's what differentiates a viable triplet from one that's influenced the very history of pokemon.
for example if you look at ground/flying/electric triangle (flying isn't SE on ground but close enough), the triangle already has the problem of two members being ice weak. fwg's strength is that, besides each other, f, w and g all have several other useful resistances (to ice, ground, electric, etc). this, combined with the fact that they cover their self-weaknesses and don't double up any weaknesses, is what makes FWG so good - defensively, at least. i don't think any other typing trio can do the job as well.
for offensive cores though, i think typing is a lot less important there than in a defensive core (typing of your movepool as a whole is more important than the typing of your STABs in many cases), so i don't think my statements apply very well on that side. not to say typing isn't important for an offensive core, but resistances matter so much defensively, where as attacking mons can often get by with neutral coverage if they have sufficient power, and their weaknesses matter much less because they'll be on the attack. granted, an offensive mon's weaknesses determine what can check/counter it, and conversely what mons will do well at supporting it or attacking alongside it.
for example if you look at ground/flying/electric triangle (flying isn't SE on ground but close enough), the triangle already has the problem of two members being ice weak. fwg's strength is that, besides each other, f, w and g all have several other useful resistances (to ice, ground, electric, etc). this, combined with the fact that they cover their self-weaknesses and don't double up any weaknesses, is what makes FWG so good - defensively, at least. i don't think any other typing trio can do the job as well.
for offensive cores though, i think typing is a lot less important there than in a defensive core (typing of your movepool as a whole is more important than the typing of your STABs in many cases), so i don't think my statements apply very well on that side. not to say typing isn't important for an offensive core, but resistances matter so much defensively, where as attacking mons can often get by with neutral coverage if they have sufficient power, and their weaknesses matter much less because they'll be on the attack. granted, an offensive mon's weaknesses determine what can check/counter it, and conversely what mons will do well at supporting it or attacking alongside it.
One offensive core that I've been having a lot of luck with is DD Mix-Moxiemence and Calm Mind Reuniclus. I've built a team around one of these two having a set-up sweep at the end.
It's not so much specific Pokémon that they cover for each other, but specific playstyles they thrive against. After one Dragon Dance, Mence can probably outspeed and OHKO an entire offense-oriented team (especially once the Moxie boosts start adding up). He struggles against walls, though, since he can't OHKO them even after several boosts. CM Reuniclus, however, walks all over walls since they can't use residual damage to take him down and he can just set up all over them. Typically, once I start a battle, I get an idea of whether the opponent is more stall or offense, then I tailor my game to clear the field for the proper sweeper. It's given me a lot of great results (I cracked the top 100 for a bit).
Another note, DD Mence absolutely REQUIRES a free turn to prepare for his sweep. Reuniclus may not need a free turn, but he sure likes one, especially if he switches into a WoW or a Toxic. I have been pairing these guys with Wobbuffet, who excels in generating free turns or guaranteed Toxics using his Encore. It's been a pretty great core.
Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 6 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
It's not so much specific Pokémon that they cover for each other, but specific playstyles they thrive against. After one Dragon Dance, Mence can probably outspeed and OHKO an entire offense-oriented team (especially once the Moxie boosts start adding up). He struggles against walls, though, since he can't OHKO them even after several boosts. CM Reuniclus, however, walks all over walls since they can't use residual damage to take him down and he can just set up all over them. Typically, once I start a battle, I get an idea of whether the opponent is more stall or offense, then I tailor my game to clear the field for the proper sweeper. It's given me a lot of great results (I cracked the top 100 for a bit).
Another note, DD Mence absolutely REQUIRES a free turn to prepare for his sweep. Reuniclus may not need a free turn, but he sure likes one, especially if he switches into a WoW or a Toxic. I have been pairing these guys with Wobbuffet, who excels in generating free turns or guaranteed Toxics using his Encore. It's been a pretty great core.
Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 6 SDef / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Focus Blast
- Psyshock
I have found that Water/Dragon/Steel is good core which can be made Offensive, Defensive, or Balanced like FWG. It also gives more resistances than FWG core (not counting secondary typings). WDS core (somehow shortened ^^') can also be used in rain team or against it as you can make all of them resist Water which is something that FWG core can't do. You can also use this core in almost any teams.
Some examples of this core;
Rain: Rotom-W / Ferrothorn / Salamence
Sandstorm: Heatran / Jellicent / Latios
Sun: Heatran / Gastrodon / Dragonite
Hail: Forretress / Tentacruel / Kyurem
Stall: Ferrothorn / Vaporeon / Latias
1st HO: Jirachi / Keldeo / Hydreigon
2nd HO: Heatran / Starmie / Salamence
Balanced: Heatran / Vaporeon / Dragonite
There are many more possible combinations of pokemon that can fit in to this core.
Some examples of this core;
Rain: Rotom-W / Ferrothorn / Salamence
Sandstorm: Heatran / Jellicent / Latios
Sun: Heatran / Gastrodon / Dragonite
Hail: Forretress / Tentacruel / Kyurem
Stall: Ferrothorn / Vaporeon / Latias
1st HO: Jirachi / Keldeo / Hydreigon
2nd HO: Heatran / Starmie / Salamence
Balanced: Heatran / Vaporeon / Dragonite
There are many more possible combinations of pokemon that can fit in to this core.
I think that Magnezone + Dragon + Water would be a pretty cool core that also follows this convention, as Dragon / Water has really good coverage only resisted by Ferrothorn, whom Magnezone takes care of, and would work nice offensively.
A couple of cool cores
I think some of you need to rethink what you consider a good core. You should explain the niche of the synergy of your chosen pokemon and perhaps explain a bit more exactly what it does and why it's effective.
Anyways I have a few I'd like to share
+
Overview
Mamoswine and Magnezone aren't exactly a typical kind of core however in tandem they both check many threats in the current metagame and break apart teams while putting tons of pressure on the opponent in these 2 pokemon alone. But these aren't meant to be your main sweepers. They should be paired with other sweepers who will enjoy the path cleared by this offensive duo.
Synergy
Mamoswine checks dragons and puts tons of physical pressure on opposing teams with it's excellent power and coverage while taking out the Special walls that annoy Magnezone.
Magnezone on the other hand traps and demolishes those who would check Mamoswine such as Skarmory and Scizor as well as being able to threaten the bulky waters that check Mamoswine.
Conclusion
Pokemon like Rotom-W are still an issue since Magnezone doesn't want to switch in nor can it 1hko in return however, this is what your other 4 are for. Additionally a good late game sweeper is essential to clean up the mess left behind.
Click for example sets
Another "core" that I'd like to share is...
+
Overview
Wobbuffet and Dugtrio is probably one of the my favorite cores I've ever come across. Essentially these 2 pokemon can eliminate any threat and guarantee the weather war is yours being able to eliminate any weather starter. Additionally both of these give crazy set up opportunities to other pokemon with Wobbuffett using encore and Dugtrio using Memento.
Synergy
Wobbuffet can encore and tickle any pokemon slower than it to -6 for Dugtrio to be able to come in and kill it right after. While Dugtrio can Memento a pokemon you were already aware is choice locked like Choice Specs Politoed and you don't want Wobbuffet to lose to much health or die trying to Mirror Coat a Hydro Pump.
Conclusion
There are a few pokemon that are relatively immune to this core such as Hydreigon who Dugtrio cannot trap or guarantee a chance to use reversal on and is also immune to Wobbuffet's Mirror Coat as well as having a super effective STAB. Scizor is also a bit of a problem being able to greatly threaten both members of the core. These 2 should be paired with a weather you want to win or deadly sweepers who will find many set up opportunities. The MOST important thing to pair this core with is a spinner to spin away encore'd hazards such as a Forretress who also aids in trapping with Volt-Switch.
Click for example sets
The final core I'd like to share is
+
Overview
Keldeo and Thundurus-T make a very strong offensive pair. Their typings pair with each other hand in hand and both are very dangerous threats. Additionally both of them perform very well in the current most popular weather, rain!
Synergy
Keldeo's weakness are perfectly complemented by Thundurus's typing aside from being Psychic weak. Another great thing about these 2 is that they aren't as susceptible to revenge killing due to their high speeds and resistances to common priority moves. They also pressure the opponent great and will likely be able to break apart their core allowing the other to sweep.
Conclusion
The core itself is very solid but pokemon like Amoonguss can be troublesome. Adding pokemon like Xatu along with entry hazards will give them a much easier time wearing down the opposition and breaking through the opponents team. Naturally of course Politoed is a solid choice as a teammate providing rain which benefits both members of the core.
Click for example sets
Oh and just as far as typings go for cores:
Fire/Water/Grass - This is a classic synergistic core you should already know how they cover each other | Tabloo by Tab is a great example of this
Fighting/Dark/Psychic - These also cover each others weaknesses but are much harder to come by | Tous Pour Un, Un Pour Tous by Katakiri is a good example
Dragon/Steel - In just these 2 typings you have fantastic resistances and power! (Dragonite + Magnezone resist all 17 types) | Hawaiian Air by Twash shows this synergy
I think some of you need to rethink what you consider a good core. You should explain the niche of the synergy of your chosen pokemon and perhaps explain a bit more exactly what it does and why it's effective.
Anyways I have a few I'd like to share
Overview
Mamoswine and Magnezone aren't exactly a typical kind of core however in tandem they both check many threats in the current metagame and break apart teams while putting tons of pressure on the opponent in these 2 pokemon alone. But these aren't meant to be your main sweepers. They should be paired with other sweepers who will enjoy the path cleared by this offensive duo.
Synergy
Mamoswine checks dragons and puts tons of physical pressure on opposing teams with it's excellent power and coverage while taking out the Special walls that annoy Magnezone.
Magnezone on the other hand traps and demolishes those who would check Mamoswine such as Skarmory and Scizor as well as being able to threaten the bulky waters that check Mamoswine.
Conclusion
Pokemon like Rotom-W are still an issue since Magnezone doesn't want to switch in nor can it 1hko in return however, this is what your other 4 are for. Additionally a good late game sweeper is essential to clean up the mess left behind.
Click for example sets
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Superpower
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Superpower
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
Another "core" that I'd like to share is...
Overview
Wobbuffet and Dugtrio is probably one of the my favorite cores I've ever come across. Essentially these 2 pokemon can eliminate any threat and guarantee the weather war is yours being able to eliminate any weather starter. Additionally both of these give crazy set up opportunities to other pokemon with Wobbuffett using encore and Dugtrio using Memento.
Synergy
Wobbuffet can encore and tickle any pokemon slower than it to -6 for Dugtrio to be able to come in and kill it right after. While Dugtrio can Memento a pokemon you were already aware is choice locked like Choice Specs Politoed and you don't want Wobbuffet to lose to much health or die trying to Mirror Coat a Hydro Pump.
Conclusion
There are a few pokemon that are relatively immune to this core such as Hydreigon who Dugtrio cannot trap or guarantee a chance to use reversal on and is also immune to Wobbuffet's Mirror Coat as well as having a super effective STAB. Scizor is also a bit of a problem being able to greatly threaten both members of the core. These 2 should be paired with a weather you want to win or deadly sweepers who will find many set up opportunities. The MOST important thing to pair this core with is a spinner to spin away encore'd hazards such as a Forretress who also aids in trapping with Volt-Switch.
Click for example sets
Wobbuffet @ Leftovers
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Spd / 200 SDef / 56 Def
Timid Nature
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
- Encore
- Tickle
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Hasty Nature
IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
Trait: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 Spd / 200 SDef / 56 Def
Timid Nature
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
- Encore
- Tickle
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Hasty Nature
IVs: 21 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
The final core I'd like to share is
Overview
Keldeo and Thundurus-T make a very strong offensive pair. Their typings pair with each other hand in hand and both are very dangerous threats. Additionally both of them perform very well in the current most popular weather, rain!
Synergy
Keldeo's weakness are perfectly complemented by Thundurus's typing aside from being Psychic weak. Another great thing about these 2 is that they aren't as susceptible to revenge killing due to their high speeds and resistances to common priority moves. They also pressure the opponent great and will likely be able to break apart their core allowing the other to sweep.
Conclusion
The core itself is very solid but pokemon like Amoonguss can be troublesome. Adding pokemon like Xatu along with entry hazards will give them a much easier time wearing down the opposition and breaking through the opponents team. Naturally of course Politoed is a solid choice as a teammate providing rain which benefits both members of the core.
Click for example sets
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Serious Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Serious Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Oh and just as far as typings go for cores:
Fire/Water/Grass - This is a classic synergistic core you should already know how they cover each other | Tabloo by Tab is a great example of this
Fighting/Dark/Psychic - These also cover each others weaknesses but are much harder to come by | Tous Pour Un, Un Pour Tous by Katakiri is a good example
Dragon/Steel - In just these 2 typings you have fantastic resistances and power! (Dragonite + Magnezone resist all 17 types) | Hawaiian Air by Twash shows this synergy
Nice cores Gamester i particularily like the core of mamoswine and magnezone. They seem to work extremely well combined with a dragon sweeper as mamoswine takes out dragons and Magnezone takes ouy steels for dragons to sweep. Also magnezones crippling weakness to ground can be abused with a free switch into flying dragons like dnite or levatating dragons like the latis. I think i will use this core with subcm latias because i love latias! Also rotom washs stabs are resisted by dragons but they do have to watch out for trick
I can attest to the core's effectiveness, having used it on my first BW2 team alongside Kingdra. Love the use of Dugtrio and Wobbu on your RMT as well, Gamester!
A good pokemon in UU would probably be arcanine, If you wanna keep a more defensive core you could run the physically defensive set with intimidate and morning sun, it tends to work wonders
I have found that this duo does well in setting up on many threats. Nothing new, but here it is:
Magnezone @ Light Clay
Calm Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
{Magnet Pull}
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave / HP Fire
- Volt Switch
Kingdra @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 228 Spe
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
I have set up on a ton of stuff with this duo. Magnezone can paralyze slight threats and can then get Reflect and Light Screen up. This lets Kingdra to set up with Sub and DD, which can easily sweep with a Substitute. Ferrothorn is a pain if you have Thunder Wave over HP Fire, so HP Fire has it's uses. Scizor dies as well to it, and takes priority issues away from Kingdra (it doesn't matter whether Scizor is alive or not, Kingdra takes BP easily). Kingdra's EVs allows it's Sub to survive a Body Slam from 0 Atk Jirachi, iirc.
Magnezone @ Light Clay
Calm Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SDef
{Magnet Pull}
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave / HP Fire
- Volt Switch
Kingdra @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 228 Spe
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
I have set up on a ton of stuff with this duo. Magnezone can paralyze slight threats and can then get Reflect and Light Screen up. This lets Kingdra to set up with Sub and DD, which can easily sweep with a Substitute. Ferrothorn is a pain if you have Thunder Wave over HP Fire, so HP Fire has it's uses. Scizor dies as well to it, and takes priority issues away from Kingdra (it doesn't matter whether Scizor is alive or not, Kingdra takes BP easily). Kingdra's EVs allows it's Sub to survive a Body Slam from 0 Atk Jirachi, iirc.
I use Scrafty, Tentacruel and Gliscor and they work pretty damn well as a defensive core
Bold Nature @Black Sludge, 252 HP, 240 Def, 16 Spd, Ability: Liquid Ooze
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Toxic/Toxic Spikes/Giga Drain
-Rapid Spin
Impish Nature @Toxic Orb, 252 Hp ,184 Def, 72 Spd, Ability: Poison Heal
-Swords Dance
-Protect/Substitute/Roost
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang/Toxic
Careful/Impish Nature @Leftovers, 252 Hp, 252 SpDef, 4 Def, Ability: Shed Skin
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Crunch/Ice Punch
-Rest
Basically Tentacruel and Gliscor take the Fighting hits that Scrafty can't + liquid ooze makes Tentacruel very good at stalling out Conkelldurs and even any opposing Scrafties, Gliscor is immune to Tentacruel's weakness of ground, Tentacruel can take the Water and Ice hits that Gliscor can't and Scrafty can take the Psychic moves that Tentacruel can't with it's immunity, Scrafties Shed Skin also means he can set up on stuff like Jellicent without fearing scald because of Shed Skin.
Bold Nature @Black Sludge, 252 HP, 240 Def, 16 Spd, Ability: Liquid Ooze
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Toxic/Toxic Spikes/Giga Drain
-Rapid Spin
Impish Nature @Toxic Orb, 252 Hp ,184 Def, 72 Spd, Ability: Poison Heal
-Swords Dance
-Protect/Substitute/Roost
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang/Toxic
Careful/Impish Nature @Leftovers, 252 Hp, 252 SpDef, 4 Def, Ability: Shed Skin
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Crunch/Ice Punch
-Rest
Basically Tentacruel and Gliscor take the Fighting hits that Scrafty can't + liquid ooze makes Tentacruel very good at stalling out Conkelldurs and even any opposing Scrafties, Gliscor is immune to Tentacruel's weakness of ground, Tentacruel can take the Water and Ice hits that Gliscor can't and Scrafty can take the Psychic moves that Tentacruel can't with it's immunity, Scrafties Shed Skin also means he can set up on stuff like Jellicent without fearing scald because of Shed Skin.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Wish
- Trick Room
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick Room
Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room
The most solid Trick Room core I have yet discovered in Gen 5. Jirachi's Wishes help immensely, not only with the core but with the team as a whole. Porygon 2 is a utility counter, while Reuniclus has the sheer power to get the job done. All three are very bulky, and with Wishes flying around from 100 base HP, keeping healthy is not impossible. EVs may well need tweaking, haven't gotten THAT indepth into the team yet, but the time is nearing.
I often pair these three with a Harvest Exeggutor to absorb all statuses. However, this adds an additional fire weakness, but provides a much needed ground resist.
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Atk
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Wish
- Trick Room
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick Room
Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Def
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room
The most solid Trick Room core I have yet discovered in Gen 5. Jirachi's Wishes help immensely, not only with the core but with the team as a whole. Porygon 2 is a utility counter, while Reuniclus has the sheer power to get the job done. All three are very bulky, and with Wishes flying around from 100 base HP, keeping healthy is not impossible. EVs may well need tweaking, haven't gotten THAT indepth into the team yet, but the time is nearing.
I often pair these three with a Harvest Exeggutor to absorb all statuses. However, this adds an additional fire weakness, but provides a much needed ground resist.
Well in OU yes, Heatran is probably the best. I use a Amoongbro + Heatran core to great success (though this core really struggles against Alakazam in truth, but hey it's only one Pokemon).
Basically the way it works is that Amoogus, though a great special wall, has a number of types it can't really wall effectively and that Slowbro just doesn't have the special bulk or typing to take. Psychic, Ice, Fire and Flying are all common special attacks that Amoongus can't take if they're really powerful (weaker ones though it can actually handle quite admirably). Specially defensive heatran covers all 4 of those weaknesses, as well as being able to handle Scizor (well as long as it's not max speed with Superpower) nicely.
Heatran also is surprisingly able to keep up with the regenerator healing of the other two if played carefully, by using protect for leftovers recovery whenever possible. This is possible because usually the attacks it's switching into do diddly-squat to it.
The sets I use are:
Slowbro @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Psyshock
- Scald
- Flamethrower
- Slack Off
Amoonguss @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Ice] (Fire works too, probably should switch since I have Mamoswine on my team)
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
Roar to give me a way to prevent stat boosters from having their way with my team and SR because I have nowhere else to put it. Toxic would probably be more useful over SR for most teams since it'd allow Slowbro and Amoongus to stall out Bulky waters and such just by switching.
And yes I realize most of this is the same as the Amoongbro core from the first page, but Heatran is important to fill the gaps in that core. Without it Tornadus-T, Reuniclus, Celebi and others can walk all over Amoongbro. It's worth mentioning on it's own, because Heatran is what makes this core so difficult to take down.
Meloetta@Life Orb
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk/56 SAtk/200 Spd
Hasty Nature
- Relic Song
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Thunder
I think I recently perked the SAtk EV's to hit harder when switching forms or hitting with thunder, but this set works the best out of the Meloetta sets I've used so far. :)