King of Conquerors
Join Date: Jul 2009
Originally Posted by Fat ginganinja
Just on the high speed stat submissions. Can someone tell me why we need massive specially defensive bulk, as well as superfast speed, for CAP 5 to do its job. The high speed comes with its fair share of problems, and I have yet to see any high speed stat address these concerns.
For starters, Admiral_Stalfos19's spread requires a pathetic amount of speed EVs to outrun neutral base 100s, which is still thought to be the "standard" speed benchmark of OU. CAP 5 requires so little investment, it can quite happily run something like 252 HP 232 SDef Careful, outspeeding the majority of the OU tier while still walling pretty much any special attacker. Why the hell do you need 130 base speed? Scarf Toed is potentially annoying, but its not staying in on CAP 5, who can easily tank the Ice Beam and follow up with a Power Whip, basically crippling Politoed for the entire match (and remember sun often packs Dugtrio which can follow up on the Revenge Kill if Politoed survives).
Just looking at nyttyns spread and I havde a similar question. 115 speed is still impressively fast, outspeeding basically all of the most common mons in the OU metagame provided they lack a scarf. This is particularly troublesome when the top scarfers in the metagame (Latios, Terrakion and Keldeo), cannot actually switch in and revenge kill it. Its also worrying that CAP 5 is predominantly checked by fast fighting mons, and yet giving it 115 speed allows it to outrun all of them, and KO 2 of them with its STAB Power Whip. Just how are you suposed to handle this thing when its exceptionally hard to revenge, and your best ways of killing it (Fighting mons) cannot actually switch in and need a scarf to outspeed (ignoring just how royally screwed they are if we give CAP 5 substitute).
So really, why do we need massive special bulk, and massive speed, especially when that impacts heavily on shifting CAP 5 away from its main focus, checking Latios and dealing with Politoed. When you raise the speed you risk CAP 5 becoming more of a sweeper, or you change what can or cannot beat it. Outspeeding Keldeo and Terrakion I will always be against considering that as it stands they are the best ways of handling CAP 5. If it outspeeds and KOs them it makes it a heck of a lot harder to beat.
Speed is needed to give better flexibility to the CAP. Give it more chances to heal, attack, and spin. I already explained why Speed is good, but i guess you don't read my posts.
You also mention that with a fast spread the CAP outruns all the Fighting types in OU, which are supposed to check us. Well, Breloom, Toxicroak, Lucario, and Conkeldurr still counter us so no problem here right? As far as Keldeo and Terrakion go, don't forget that those two are also Grass/Rock types, which are weak to us by typing alone. So we can't really switch into them and they can't really switch into us. While it is true we outspeed, both Pokemon can use effectively a Scarf set, and both Pokemon are not OHKOed by Power Whip, allowing them to take a hit and KO back if the situation is really desperate.
I don't even get why you say that these pokes are the best ways to deal with the CAP, as literally they are some of the worst. Scizor, Lucario, Breloom, Skarmory, U-turn Jirachi, Heatran, Volcarona, Toxicroak, Kyurem-B, Hydreigon, Infernape, Conkeldurr, U-turn or SD Gliscor, Landorus-T, mixed Salamence with Intimidate, Metagross, and Magnezone are all Pokemon that can easily counter the CAP
, along with a multitude of checks and revenge killers, so i can't really see your concern. If you get the reason to use Speed, outspeeding Terrakion and Keldeo shouldn't be an issue at all.
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Last edited by alexwolf; Mar 6th, 2013 at 9:01:20 AM.