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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Tobes, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. Alter

    Alter lab report
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    In a sense, I agree. The whole 'lack of good coverage' idea is rather farfetch'd when it has a ridiculous 120 BP STAB move combined with a ridiculously godly 170 base attack which can rip anything into shreds.

    On the other hand, it's ice typing plain out sucks and is the main reason why I think it's still struggling in OU.
  2. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    Probably the biggest reason Kyurem-B is struggling in OU along with its typing is its Speed. In Ubers, among the Dragons, 95 is pretty fast. However, in OU, where the benchmark is 100 Speed, and preferred is 108, Kyurem-B is outsped by almost all offensive pokemon used, and since offensive teams are so common, people shy away from it. Add to that its typing, and you are sad. Just because its OU doesn't mean it cannot be used in Ubers, and it is pretty good up there still. IMO it is underrated, but it is slow with bad typing. However, it is easily the best Sub user in the OU tier.
  3. Curtains

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    Anyone else find Ferrothorn to be completely annoying? With iron barbs and rocky helmet it just a pain to kill... You can only KO it with fire moves or powerful fighting attacks. Even if you do damage you will take some huge damage from its item and ability.All this while it leech seeds and sets up hazards... The only real way to beat this thing is to trap it... Because if you switch in something you might get leech seeded or paralyzed.... Then if you hit it and don't KO you take massive damage just to kill it. It is a really hard thing to team build around and is probably the best defensive pokemon in the tier atm as it covers so much and is a pain to switch in.

    @ victinivcreate1

    gyro ball
  4. victinivcreate1

    victinivcreate1

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    Ferro is setup bait for Landorus Incarnate.

    Rock Polish

    sweep.
  5. Dark Fallen Angel

    Dark Fallen Angel FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!

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    I do not know why Ferrothorn would be hard to beat. Ferrothorn dies to just about any Fire-type attack. Even rain does not stop Ferrothorn from be 2HKOed or even OHKOed by most Fire-type attacks. Heatran, many Dragon-types, most Pokémon found on sun teams... All them threathen Ferrothorn with Fire-type attacks. Fighting-type attacks are also a problem, and with Keldeo and Terrakion running around, Ferrothorn has a lot of problems. Another thing is that Ferrothorn just isn't what it used to be in terms of walling. It dies to many neutral attacks found nowadays, such as Scizor's Bug Bite, Landorus' Earth Power and Earthquake, Tornadus' Hurricane... Ferrothorn is also setup bait for many, many Pokémon. This includes Steel-types such as Heatran, opposing Ferrothorn, and Forretress. All in all, Ferrothorn is not a pain to take down and is not hard to switch in. This does not mean that it is not a threat. Just means that Ferrothorn is not what you are saying that it is.
  6. yee

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    Definitely. What I've noticed myself doing is stacking up on leads that can beat it like WoW Rotom-W, SR Terrak, general Sash Taunt leads etc. so it can't even start pulling its crap. From there it's a matter of having a Skarm / Tran / Tangrowth for balance and not letting it get free turns with offense, Terrakion / Lando can OHKO no matter what spread it uses which helps and it can't beat many set up threats if it has to switch into them.
  7. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star

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    There has been an incredible amount of sun-stall on ladder.
  8. dcae

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    I haven't seen any, surprisingly. All the time recently I've been seeing Sand Stall or Weatherless Balanced teams. I haven't seen a Sun team or Rain team in a while, which does not make sense.
  9. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    I've seen a lot of sand stall and rain stall teams lately. Most of the sand stall teams are variations of Meru's RMT from a while ago, while most of the rain stalls I see are pretty hastily put together (it seems to me) and are pretty weak to Breloom in general. It has been interesting though, as stall seems to be becoming slightly more popular.
  10. Memphis Grizzly

    Memphis Grizzly

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    I enjoy the appraisal stall players are receiving in this metagame, in a different time such players would receive hate comments for stalling. Stall requires more then a band wagon of "cool" top offensive threats to work in such a high paced meta.
  11. dcae

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    Yeah practically all the sand stall teams are variations of armoaticity. I feel like this is very important that stall is gaining footing among the elite once again, as it once was a dying type of playstyle. I haven't seen much of Rain stall though, more balanced Rain teams.
  12. Memphis Grizzly

    Memphis Grizzly

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    Which is odd seeing as Tentacruel is an everlasting force with Rain up, also Ferrothorn strives hindering it's fire weakness. Dragonite and Latias are a great stallbreakers under rain, although getting ridding of opposing Ferrothorn is a pain.
  13. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Ok, the past few days I've been seeing TOO much stall. Maybe it's because I'm totally biased and hate stall, but I just had like five stall matches in a row. Obviously stall becomes more prevalent (and better) the higher you get on the ladder, but it just annoys me. I need a spinner on my team -___-
  14. dcae

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    Well, on the bright side, this shows that the meta has finally balanced out, with almost every type of team able to succeed. This is exactly what needs to be achieved, and the current meta is doing a very good job of it.
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    What is everyone's opinion about Zapdos? It is one of the few Pokemon that can counter Landorus consistently as long as SR is off the field, and has a lot of use against rain teams, easily beating 1-on-1 most Pokemon that rain teams carry (even SpD Celebi that lack P-Song eventually run out of Recover PPs and can't really do much to Zapdos if it has Substitute). Also, it acts as a pretty good damn check to any CM Jirachi with Roar, and has that sweet Volt Switch to act as a good pivot and preserve momentum.

    I know that the SpD set is great and it works, however i want to hear some opinion about the offensive set (3 attacks + Roost + LO or 3 attacks + Volt Switch/U-turn + Lefties) and the speedy SubRoost set (enough Speed to outrun Modest Landorus). Do you believe that they have any merit on this meta, and on what kind of teams do you use those sets? How are they different from the more popular SpD set and why would you use those sets over it?

    Also please refrain from answering if you haven't used any of those sets, as i want opinions from people with playtesting experience with them.
  16. BKC

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    while zapdos is a horrible landorus counter (it's one of the better checks), the sdef set is a good mon in general. it's got a lot of cool options it can mess around with.

    offensive zapdos is completely outclassed by thundurus-t.
  17. alexwolf

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    Well, Heat Wave, better bulk, and Roost are all qualities that Thundurus-T lacks, meaning that offensive Zapdos is not completely outclassed. I agree with you that it is generally outclassed, but i want to see if anyone has found some little useful niche for it.
  18. Alexander.

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    I found Specially Defensive Zapdos extremely useful. It's a good Landorus-I check, it checks Rain teams and it's very helpful against Sun teams too (Zapdos is bulky enough to tank a hit from Venusaur and to KO back with Heat Wave). It has also nice coverage moves, Electric + Ice + Fire is somewhat which many Pokemon wish to have. However, in my eyes a Substitute Roost one is viable nowadays, honestly I never tried it in BW2 but I used it a lot in BW1 and it was like a beast, able to set a Substitute on many Pokemon and to stall them out with the support of Entry Hazards (especially the Toxic Spikes, it can work like a Substitute Kyurem) so maybe it's interesting in BW2 too.
  19. BKC

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    man, this metagame is driving me insane. my main beef with it atm is how hard it is to be creative while maintaining effectiveness. if i'm going defensive, i have to resort to the same old shit in order to not get steamrolled by these ridiculously powerful pokemon meaning a lot of my teams look very similar. it seems as if i don't revert to the tried-and-true methods of holding these threats off, i'll get destroy. almost always gotta use landorus-t for terrakion, sdef celebi for keld/lando (they've been getting cute with their bug moves lately though). the offensive teams i make are also very similar since it's no secret what works best with one another while keeping threats in check. every rain/sun team is identical and each have their dumb matchup issues, hail is gimmicky, weatherless is fun but basically a disadvantage against any team abusing weather, sand is the most reliable but all of the sand teams i make/see are the same unless the method of covering threats they use is inferior to the standard.
  20. Meru

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    I agree with the above post. I can't break out of my sand stall team because everything just seems to be some damped down version of another team I've seen. Not sure if this is what people call a "balanced" metagame but it has definitely lost its creative edge.
  21. HabibsHotDogs

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    I get by using non-defensive checks reasonably well. Here's a weatherless team with 0 defensive checks, Whimsicott comes close but its more of a check to set-up if anything. What irks me about this metagame is that you have to prepare so well for rain teams, you can often get steamrolled by a sun team stacking 4 or 5 offenders that would not necessarily do well (against rain or sand it'd easily lose) if you weren't to have a weather less team -.-

    I'm talking those Ninetails/Venusaur/Darmanitan/Volcarona/Forretress/Sawsbuck teams or w/e they tend to be.

    My current weatherless team below.

    Show Hide
    Alakazam @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    Garchomp @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Fire Fang

    Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Reversal
    - Sucker Punch

    Whimsicott @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Encore
    - U-turn
    - Taunt
    - Leech Seed

    Keldeo @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Taunt
    - Secret Sword
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Dark]

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Trait: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Crunch


    Notice how I have 0 things that can switch into Terrakion reliably :P it still does perfectly fine against it. I play 90% of my teams strategies around trying to delay their SR and facilitate the fastest SR possible as I believe that is usually the key to winning. This team doesn't mind SR at all though.
  22. George Eliot

    George Eliot

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    Tbh, while I agree with BKC to an extent, I also think that the lack of creativity "allowed" by the meta is more than a little bit a figment of people's imagination. I'm going to use my recent RMT as an example here - I started with Keldeo and Thundurus (now Landorus), and added Zoroark instead of Tyranitar because I a) wanted to see how it would work, and b) could think of a lot of reasons it would be superior. Since I wasn't using Tyranitar, but needed weather control, I used Abomasnow instead...and so on. My point is, if you start unconventionally, that will necessitate making more unconventional choices. If you use the same combinations of pokemon, then you'll usually be forced into using the same partners, because they synergise the best with them. Obviously, this is much more relevant for offense rather than defense, because there are certain pokemon like Terrakion which necessitate one of about six defensive pokemon being used if you're playing stall. But stall's been like that forever; all roads lead to Rome, essentially.
  23. Zarco

    Zarco

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    I recently started using a dual weather team, using both BandTar and Politoed to support Keldeo, and to always be able to stop opposing weather. It's working pretty well. Has anyone else tried this out?
  24. George Eliot

    George Eliot

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    Yeah, I've seen it a few times. Tbh though, in most scenarios I feel like you're better off using Scizor than Tyranitar, since in the Rain it traps the same targets just as effectively, and counters many of the same things as Tar but with more overall utility.
  25. Memphis Grizzly

    Memphis Grizzly

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    I must say I love this post.

    Anyways, I feel the same about the meta game being dried out of creativity. Also if you happen to have one creative set or two on a team of standard pokes you'll still get crowned upon with a copy&paste noob.

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