^ A STAB (Flash Fire) Overheat from 145 SpAtt stat begs to differ.
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Chandelure
- Thread starter tennisace
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Then sir, you must be a terrible player. Flash Fire Shandera has been on literally every team of mine and my ranking has never gone below 25 in the Beta Server. As for real wifi matches, Shandera is an amazing pokemon when played correctly (hint: It's a less bulky, more offensive Heatran).
You'd be have an even better rank if you used heatran instead. The only reason you should ever use flash fire shandera over heatran is if you really need a spinblocker, Heatran is good because of bulk and resistances, his offensive power is only a bonus. Significant dropping in bulk and inferior typing is not worth the extra power and slight speed increase, ever.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
That entire post makes no sense. The arguement is that flash fire shandera is bad because it's bad. And that's all. I use this thing as an offensive sub/nitro charger on one of my many sunny day team variations and it is awesome. Flash fire boosted sunny day STAB fire blast coming off of base 145 sp. atk is amazing. Shadow tag shandera switches into timid ninetales flamethrower in the sunlight and loses half of it's life. If flash fire shandera is something you consider "bad", the I guess every other flash fire pokemon is "bad" too save for the heatran you mentioned. Even with the stealth rock weakness, shandera is still amazing.
As for shadow tag, that fifth generation psychic pokemon has it too. That's why she's used on nearly 25% of the time on the dreamworld ladder just like shandera. Oh....wait....
Shadow tag shandera isn't something to be feared solely for revenge sets. Turns of free setup are just that. After shandera nabs its acid armors/calm minds/nitro charges or whatever I don't think tyranitar will be able to switch in willy nilly and tank a +? Hp fighting. Nor will he enjoy using pursuit on a big bad substitute.
You could always do what some people are doing and slap a shed shell on your sweepers as some form of "counter".
As for shadow tag, that fifth generation psychic pokemon has it too. That's why she's used on nearly 25% of the time on the dreamworld ladder just like shandera. Oh....wait....
Shadow tag shandera isn't something to be feared solely for revenge sets. Turns of free setup are just that. After shandera nabs its acid armors/calm minds/nitro charges or whatever I don't think tyranitar will be able to switch in willy nilly and tank a +? Hp fighting. Nor will he enjoy using pursuit on a big bad substitute.
You could always do what some people are doing and slap a shed shell on your sweepers as some form of "counter".
Implying I use a Choice set. Recently, I've been running set up Shandy, something Heatran can't do. May not be the best Shandy around, but played correctly it's one hell of an amazing late game sweeper.
Setting up with Shandera is epic :)
I laugh when they bring in T-tar on my +1 Sp.Attack,+2 Speed Shandera only to get OHKO'd by HP Fighting.
Shandera even with Flash fire is nothing to sneeze at. With two of the most used Pokes being Fire types, Shandy itself and Blaziken, a fire type move coming your way can be, and I mean can be not will be, predictable. Most Blaziken I've seen run only Flare Blitz and HJK/Sky Uppercut as offensive moves, and FF shandy is immune to both. Sure Heatran has more resistances, but Shandy shines in it's own way by being immune to the ever popular fighting type (except Payback or SE from Roopushin and Machamp), just like Heatran shines in it's way as well. God that was corny.
However, due to its immunity to fighting types' priority (well, resistance to Bullet punch anyway) it can simply OHKO with a powerful Fire attack, meaning that Payback coming Shandy's way is inconsequental.
Blaziken on the other hand commonly carries SE or Shadow Claw, so after coming in to absorb an attack you pretty much have to swtich back out, unless it runs both SD and protect or something.
That is very true. I have seen some Blaziken carry shadow claw, though most of the ones I've seen are mostly used for baton passing or leads that use Protect and Claw Sharpen. This is just me speaking from experience, not saying you're incorrect.
Difference between the psychic shadow tag and shandara is Shandara has immunity and then can use that time to do a setup. With nitro boost, cm, or sub you can have an unstoppable poke.
I agree about the Flash Fire though. If you are using it for Flash Fire (except maybe on a sunny day team) then you are better off with a different ghost or heatran. Heatran has overall a better a movepool and better typing plus bulk. Gengar almost equals SpATk but is much faster. Mismagius has access to NPlot and is faster.
About the only thing to do with Flash Fire is bluff bad players since they assume it is Shadow Tag.
Unless you know you are getting either a free switch or minimium dmamge switch why would you switch in Shandara. Ninetails does two things right now. Set up sun and try to get some damage out.
I agree about the Flash Fire though. If you are using it for Flash Fire (except maybe on a sunny day team) then you are better off with a different ghost or heatran. Heatran has overall a better a movepool and better typing plus bulk. Gengar almost equals SpATk but is much faster. Mismagius has access to NPlot and is faster.
About the only thing to do with Flash Fire is bluff bad players since they assume it is Shadow Tag.
Unless you know you are getting either a free switch or minimium dmamge switch why would you switch in Shandara. Ninetails does two things right now. Set up sun and try to get some damage out.
Shandera has a special attack boosting move, STAB Fire Blast, and Nitro Charge, coupled with 145 base special attack. Other ghosts don't have boosting options or don't have its massive special attack and Fire Blast, and Heatran doesn't have access to Calm Mind. Even if not on a sun team, Shandera is an extremely effective setup pokemon. Heatran may have better defenses, but no other pokemon can claim Shandera's myriad of boosting options, as well as that massive special attack and STAB Fire Blast.
At this point, I'm going to have to say that Psychic on a Shandera is useless. Fire Blast hits EVERYTHING that doesn't resist it along with Psychic for the same damage counting STAB, and even if one uses Flamethrower, Psychic has almost no utility outside of negligible coverage.
Except that HP Fighting and Shadow Ball provide flawless coverage and at +6 Sp.Attack and even at +1 speed,not much will survive.
Not all mons can guarantee at least ONE kill per game.
Who's to say your opponent doesn't switch in a Weavile as you Swords Dance with your Garchomp? Garchomp has NO choice but to switch out or die.
Garchomp didn't get a kill and you can't really do anything. If that Weavile has a Focus Sash and you don't have any hazards up,your Garchomp wont be doing anything at all.
You could have done better using Heatran instead.Like i said, there will be people who use it but eventually once everything settles down people will realize just how much it sucks.
Shandera is a terrible,teriible Pokemon..I'm just ahead of the curve and realized this earlier than everyone else.
You must be a HORRIBLE player then.
Flash Fire Shandera works great on my team.
Not only do I NOT have to look at an armored turd,STAB Overheat murders everything that doesn't resist it.
Along with 80 speed which is easily boosted by Nitro Charge.
Add a petaya/salac berry or a Life Orb,and you got yourself a decent late game sweeper.
Stop looking at its frailty and start looking at the possibilities.
You are the worst poster i've seen on Uncharted that doesn't have single digit posts. Non-Shadow Tag Shandera gets to abuse Falsh Fire, making is already poweeful Fire Blast even more absurd. Shandera abuses Nitro Charge much better then Heatran, Shans Scarf set can outspeed threats Scarf Heatran can't. Shandera easily switches in on Fighting type priority users and obliterate them with Fire attacks (Specs ensures they will all die), while Heatran is hit for a good chunk by them. Shandera may not have a better defensive typing, but he has both a much better offensive typing and maginally better movepool. remember how Heatran was forced to run HP Grass just to handle Swampert? Shandera just Energy Balls to OHKO, rmember how Heatran was forced to use Fire Blast to hit ghosts? Shandera fires off a Shadow Ball. Shandera can run a different Hidden Power because of Energy Ball to handle certian things (obvious one being Hidden Power Fighting to dent Tar). Oh, and Specs can murder everything that doesn't resist or is Blissey/Chansey.
Not on the same set though, right? Since Overheat won't work well on a late game sweeper, and you probably wouldn't want to run Nitro Charge alongside that.
Are you serious?Like i said, players who love Shandera will use it for a while.However once they realize how much it sucks they will stop however they will keep defending.If it wasn't for Shadow Tag only people who like the Pokemon itself would be posting here.
Use Hetran or any other Ghost instead.
Terrible Pokemon is terrible.
Obviously.
In all honesty, when I used FF Shanderaa as a simple Sub+3 attacks variant to come in on some crucial weaknesses for my team (Fire and Fight - Heatran couldn'tve done it) it performed admirably.
If you come into something that you can force out, you get a Sub and then to smack something off your colossal SpAtk without worrying about predicting the switch, same as SubPerior or anything using a similar set, really.
Saying Shanderaa without Shadow Tag is awful is somewhat foolish imo, as although it looses colossal utility, it can still be used to fit niches nothing else can - Fire and Fight immunities in one slot are one example. And as long as a pokemon has a niche, however small, it'll be used by some to great effect in that small role.
If you come into something that you can force out, you get a Sub and then to smack something off your colossal SpAtk without worrying about predicting the switch, same as SubPerior or anything using a similar set, really.
Saying Shanderaa without Shadow Tag is awful is somewhat foolish imo, as although it looses colossal utility, it can still be used to fit niches nothing else can - Fire and Fight immunities in one slot are one example. And as long as a pokemon has a niche, however small, it'll be used by some to great effect in that small role.
It be lovely if you would actually try and argue any of the points I posted, but it's clear you can't and your just spewing shit out to post on this thread. I also don't LOVE Shandera, I used his Scarf set to nice affect, and his other sets seem quite good, so i'm just defending a good Poke that you seem determined to try and make it seem like just because it doesn't have Shadow Tag, it's completely usless. (I bet you would find Gallade usless too)
^ That
it's also not hard to bluff having a scarf.
No one wants their Nattorei to die,therefore,free sub.
Shandera is a good mon even without Shadow Tag,just not AS good.
It's not terrible by any means.
I didn't say useless, no Pokemon is "useless".I am saying Shandera is a terrible Pokemon..Which it is and the only reason to use it is because of Shadow Tag which is inherently broken.
I'm sure you can find a set for Flash Fire Shandera to be useful in the team, that doesn't change the fact that is a terrible Pokemon.Same how Butterfree has Sleep Powder and with Choice Scarf it will do something, but you could just as easily use Breloom or Darkrai if wanting to use something that can abuse sleep.
Find me another poke with Shandy's immunities and I will gladly respond to your point. As it is, you clearly need to understand the concept of a niche better...