DP Research Thread #2 ("New")

[CPU]

I'm assuming that Hyper Beam/Rock Wrecker/other such moves would go inbetween Counter/Mirror Coat and 120 power moves.
Some other attacks you might want to check:
1. Selfdestruct
2. Trump Card
3. Crush Grip/Wring Out
4. Nature Power
5. Hyper Beam
6. Metal Burst

Also, does a Pokémon's stat have anything to do with it? For example, a Swinub (Mamoswine) with Ice Shard and Powder Snow- which one will it pick?

 

[Footnote]

A minor finding: In Double Battles, Frisk picks a random opponent. It seems to have nothing to do with the items being held. The exception, of course, is if only one opponent has an item. Then it'll Frisk that one.

Great Forewarn info, Donut! I'm looking forward to your further findings.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Sir Spanky and I just did some tests!

Embargo is blocked by Substitute.

Gastro Acid is blocked by Substitute

Power Swap and Guard Swap hit through sub. Presumably, Heart Swap does as well.

Worry Seed is blocked by Substitute.

Toxic Spikes cannot poison Pokemon behind Substitutes.

Psycho Shift is blocked by Substitute.

That's all the testing I was able to do.

 

[Surgo]

Thanks AA, very useful for Competitor (as is everything else here).

 

[Peterko]

well, you can call me mr. bad news or whatever you want, but rivalry boosting 25% both physical and special move power was kinda too good to be true...you may anticipate what comes now

if the oponent is of the opposite gender, your moves have 25% less power...we accidentally came across this info as I was finishing the LAST test for the damage formula with x-act, when the calced damage was higher than what I got, it was like this:

female luxio, lv.100, 205sA, using thunderbolt/spark, wise glasses
vs
male 162 sD slaking

thundebolt + wise glasses
calc. damage without the negative 25%: 142-168
calc. damage with the negative 25%: 106-126
damage I got: 116, 117

charge + thunderbolt + wise glasses
calc. dmg without the negative 25%: 283-334
calc. dmg with the negative 25%: 211-250
damage I got: 222, 234, 237

spark had also 25% less base pwr

two wild battle test which prove this:

female lv.28 rivalry shinx with 43attack using bite against female 51defense gastrodon
rivarly boost: 13 x 75 x 43 / 51 / 50 ) + 2) x 85-100/100 = 15-18
no boost: 13 x 60 x 43 / 51 / 50 ) + 2) x 85-100/100 = 12-15
dmg I got: 17

female lv.28 rivalry shinx with 43attack using bite against male 44defense floatzel
no boost: 13 x 60 x 43 / 44 / 50 ) + 2) x 85-100/100 = 14-17
negative rivalry modifier: 13 x 45 x 43 / 44 / 50 ) + 2) x 85-100/100 = 11-13
dmg I got: 12

 

[Boa1891]

So, Rivalry sucks. Nice to know.

 

[Rubberbandman]

It should be called Rivalry/ Chivalry now. But still, since people dont change genders much on netbattle it will most likely will be used

 

[adman2]

Speaking of Rivalry, could you test it on Pokemon with no gender? I'd like to know if it just does normal damage or something. Thanks! :)

 

[ΩDonut]

I've been editing my previous post on Forewarn to help me organize the information I've gathered. However, since it was on the previous page, chances are most people haven't seen it. So, here it is again.

For the purposes of Forewarn, move with set damage or variable power have a listed base power. They are:

0 power: moves blocked by Taunt
80 power: Night Shade\Seismic Toss, Grass Knot\Low Kick, Gyro Ball, Return\Frustration, Wring Out\Crush Grip, Dragon Rage, Sonicboom, Endeavor, Hidden Power, Natural Gift and Psywave
120 power: Counter and Mirror Coat
160 power: OHKO moves

I cannot be 100% certain that OHKO moves have 160 power, but they did have priority over Hyper Beam. And since these base powers come in multiples of 40, it seemed like a reasonable guess.

Metal Burst will have to wait a while for testing - I don't have a Shieldon or sufficiently high-level Aggron to work with. Meantime, chances are there are moves that I may have missed, so let me know if there are any.

That's about all the Forewarn research I'm doing for now... time to get back to preparing my GameStop tourney team.

 

[Surgo]

Just tested Destiny Bond in 2v2. It no longer affects your partner too, so:

Qwilfish used Destiny Bond!
MewtwoA used Thunder! (hits Kyogre for a lot)
MewtwoB used Thunder! (kills Kyogre)
Kyogre died!
MewtwoB doesn't die!

 

[TheMantyke]

I, about a month ago aqured a hacked arceus. Its special ability was battle armor and when I tested it out in battle with a metal plate attached, Its color changed, and judgements power, but its type remained normal.

 

[Mastadi]

It does make sense. The color-changing stuff is exclusive to Arseus, and every other pokemon with his ability (Traced or skill swaped or whatever) probably will just change it's type. And also, the judgement is a move that "Type's changes with plate holded by user" IIRC.

 

[Boa1891]

It does make sense. The color-changing stuff is exclusive to Arseus, and every other pokemon with his ability (Traced or skill swaped or whatever) probably will just change it's type. And also, the judgement is a move that "Type's changes with plate holded by user" IIRC.

Yeah, Judgment is akin to Weather Ball; Even if castform's ability is gone, the attack and ability aren't synonymous.

 

[Team Rocket Elite]

Lv31 Luxray - 83 Atk
Lv30 Electrode - 48 Def
Luxray has Rivalry
Luxray is using Bite

Expected damage range if Rivalry does nothing: 26-31
Damage dealt: 26, 28

Seems like it has no effect on genderless.

Edit: Skill Swapped Rivalry onto a Genderless Pokemon:

Lv100 Azelf - 341 SpAtk
Lv100 Regirock - 310 SpDef
Azelf is using Psychic.
Azelf has been Skill Swapped Rivalry.

Expect damage with no boosts: 108-127
118 damage


Lv100 Azelf - 341 SpAtk
Lv100 Latios - 247 SpDef
Azelf is using Psychic.
Azelf has been Skill Swapped Rivalry.

Expect damage with no boosts: 67-79
69 damage


Lv100 Azelf - 341 SpAtk
Lv100 Latias - 283 SpDef
Azelf is using Psychic.
Azelf has been Skill Swapped Rivalry.

Expect damage with no boosts: 59-69
65 damage.


No boost or reduction in all cases.

 

[aquasuicune]

What's the chance of flame body/static activating? It was 30% last gen, but it seems to work more now.

 

[Boa1891]

What's the chance of flame body/static activating? It was 30% last gen, but it seems to work more now.

Haven't done testing, but it seems like 50% from experience with my Magmortar. I assume effect spore and poison pin have also been adjusted in the case they've been changed?

 

[Footnote]

Just tested Destiny Bond in 2v2. It no longer affects your partner too, so:

Qwilfish used Destiny Bond!
MewtwoA used Thunder! (hits Kyogre for a lot)
MewtwoB used Thunder! (kills Kyogre)
Kyogre died!
MewtwoB doesn't die!

This was never the case. Maybe it was a bug in NetBattle, but I just tested it in Emerald and Destiny Bond never affected your partner in a Double Battle.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Haven't done testing, but it seems like 50% from experience with my Magmortar. I assume effect spore and poison pin have also been adjusted in the case they've been changed?

Its been happening less for me general, out of 9 pokes that had Effect Spore, poison point, static, and flame body at battle tower, 3 of them effected my pokes

 

[Boa1891]

Its been happening less for me general, out of 9 pokes that had Effect Spore, poison point, static, and flame body at battle tower, 3 of them effected my pokes

Meh, I guess suicune and I just had a hiccup in our statistics.

 

[obi]

This was never the case. Maybe it was a bug in NetBattle, but I just tested it in Emerald and Destiny Bond never affected your partner in a Double Battle.

I had heard reports that it did in either JAA nationals or a JAA regional finals battle. It's not that they said "My Geodude killed my Gengar and fainted to Destiny Bond" but, "My Gengar used Destiny Bond, his Kyogre used Waterfall on my Geodude, and Kyogre fainted to Destiny Bond."

Its been happening less for me general, out of 9 pokes that had Effect Spore, poison point, static, and flame body at battle tower, 3 of them effected my pokes

9 cases is not a sufficiently large enough sample size. One more activation and you would have had 4/9, or 44%, which is closer to 50% than 30%.

I, about a month ago aqured a hacked arceus. Its special ability was battle armor and when I tested it out in battle with a metal plate attached, Its color changed, and judgements power, but its type remained normal.

Yeah, Arceus's color change comes from the fact that it's Arceus, not its ability (although the type change comes from the ability), and Judgment's type is based on held plate, not holder's type.

0 power: moves blocked by Taunt
80 power: Night Shade\Seismic Toss, Grass Knot\Low Kick, Gyro Ball, Return\Frustration, Wring Out\Crush Grip, Dragon Rage, Sonicboom, Endeavor, Hidden Power, Natural Gift and Psywave
120 power: Counter and Mirror Coat
160 power: OHKO moves

Nature Power is blocked by Taunt, yet it causes damage. Did you test that one specifically? Do moves like Toxic / Will-O-Wisp possibly have a higher priority than Charm or Wish?

 

[Footnote]

I had heard reports that it did in either JAA nationals or a JAA regional finals battle. It's not that they said "My Geodude killed my Gengar and fainted to Destiny Bond" but, "My Gengar used Destiny Bond, his Kyogre used Waterfall on my Geodude, and Kyogre fainted to Destiny Bond."

Yes, I'm perfectly aware what he meant. I tried it in Emerald. It doesn't work.

(My) Qwilfish used Destiny Bond!
(Gabby's) Exploud used Hyper Voice!
(My L.17 Seviper) fainted!

The Exploud didn't faint.

I don't care how many secondhand reports you heard about JAA. Try it out for yourself.

EDIT: It's possible that it's a glitch in Colloseum or XD. I haven't tested it there. Still, has anyone here at Smogon ever experienced this quirk with Destiny Bond?

 

[obi]

I don't remember how JAA battles were done (it was either XD or Colosseum, though), so a test on those two would either confirm or deny this rumor.

 

[obi]

Rock Head: Does it block the damage caused by an opponent holding a Jaboca or Rowap Berry?

Power Herb: Does it also remove the recharge turn of Hyper Beam / Giga Impact / Roar of Time / Rock Wrecker? Does Skull Bash still boost Defense with this item equipped? I ask because the Defense boost occurs on the charge up turn.

 

[Boa1891]

Rock Head: Does it block the damage caused by an opponent holding a Jaboca or Rowap Berry?

Power Herb: Does it also remove the recharge turn of Hyper Beam / Giga Impact / Roar of Time / Rock Wrecker? Does Skull Bash still boost Defense with this item equipped? I ask because the Defense boost occurs on the charge up turn.

I assume not, but I will have to test it.

It does NOT remove recharge turns (unless I'm remembering incorrectly), and it does still have second-effects on the first turn.

Example:
x withdraws its head!
x raises defense!
x's power herb allows it to become fully charged!
x uses Skull Bash!

The actual terminology may be off, but I'm certain you see what I mean.

 

[ΩDonut]

Nature Power is blocked by Taunt, yet it causes damage. Did you test that one specifically?

Nature Power, like Metronome and Sleep Talk, is Tauntable because they don't actually do damage on their own - they simply call other moves to do damage for them.

Do moves like Toxic / Will-O-Wisp possibly have a higher priority than Charm or Wish?

No, they do not.