DP Research Thread #2 ("New")

[Peterko]

THE DAMAGE FORMULA IS FINISHED!!!

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25175

enjoy

 

[Boa1891]

Nature Power, like Metronome and Sleep Talk, is Tauntable because they don't actually do damage on their own - they simply call other moves to do damage for them.

Just to note, even though they are not technically attacking moves in that case, Metronome, Sleep Talk, Me First, and Copycat all take 'recoil' from Life Orb. Even though I was hoping the damage boost was passive (always there), but the 'recoil' only activated by attacking. (free boost and no recoil on Me First? :D) Sadly, this isn't the case. ;S

Edit: WOOT! Formula 100% finished :D

 

[AJC]

because its still isn't listed Pluck is just a flying typed Bug Bite it does not double in BP on a berry holding foe it instead acts just like bug bite and steals the foe's berry and gains its effect if it can or destroys it if its not able to

 

[Footnote]

Does Defense Curl double the power of Ice Ball or doesn't it? The move thread in the analyses forum says it does, but the official damage formula says nothing about it, although it mentions that it does double Rollout's power.

 

[Peterko]

wanted to test, forgot to do, will do later


EDIT: what I have until now from

REVERSAL

first test:
192/286 HP: 20->40 base power
98/286 HP: 40->80 base power
58/286 HP: 80->100 base power
26/286 HP: 100->150 base power
8/286 HP: 150->200 power

second test:
201/300 HP: 20->40 base power
103/300 HP: 40->80 base power
60/300 HP: 80->100 base power
28/300 HP: 100->150 base power
9/300 HP: 150->200 base power

200 power looks to be at 3% rounded down...it is 3 - 3.146853147%
150 power looks to be at a bit more than 9%...it is 9.333 - 9.44%
hmm...unless I´m calculating it wrong

EDIT 2: I think I have it (maybe)

2/64 = 3.125%
6/64 = 9.375%
13/64 = 20.3125%
22/64 = 34.375%
43/64 = 67.1875%
of max HP, rounded down

at least these numbers correspond with my results

this means, that on a 320 HP pokémon

200 power is activated at 10 HP left
150 power is from 11 to 30 HP left
100 power is from 31 to 65 HP left
80 power is from 66 to 110 HP left
40 power is from 111 to 215 HP left
20 power is above 216 HP


EDIT 3:
by the way, the red HP bar starts if
current HP/max HP x 100 result rounded down is 20...

 

[Rubberbandman]

9 cases is not a sufficiently large enough sample size. One more activation and you would have had 4/9, or 44%, which is closer to 50% than 30%.

I tested this a tiny bit and these are the results:

In a double battle, I sent out Macargo (w/ Flame Body) and Gliscor.

6 out of 25 direct attacks from Gliscor got it burned (24%)

11 out of 50 direct attacks from Gliscor got it burned (22%)

So either I got really lucky in the 3 battles or the direct contact moves went down to 25%.

I'll test it again later and with Breloom.

 

[Footnote]

Type-resist berries only halve the power of the first hit of a multi-hit attack. I've known this for a while, but I kept forgetting to post it.

 

[Peterko]

rubberbandman...you don´t have to test effect spore, I´ve done it and it is 30%, I think flame body is 30%, as well...

sorry I don´t have the patience to go through the many many dmg formula PMs with X-Act, I tested effect spore somewhere in between when I felt like it was happening too often for my taste

EDIT: found it, my effect spore sample was 9/30 and in the end 14/50 = 28%...hmm could be 25%, also, I´ll leave this to you

 

[ΩDonut]

If a confused Pokemon uses Pursuit against a Pokemon switching out, the confusion turn is bypassed completely. No "Pokemon X is confused!" message appears, or the 50% chance of hurting itself in confusion. Presumably the confusion counter is not decreased when this happens, but it will have to take some exhaustive research to rule this out (and I'm certainly not up to it this week).

This has actually been present since GSC, but it strikes me as such an obscure piece of information I thought I'd post it to gauge just how obscure it really is. Also to confirm that it works this way in DP.

 

[Boa1891]

If a confused Pokemon uses Pursuit against a Pokemon switching out, the confusion turn is bypassed completely. No "Pokemon X is confused!" message appears, or the 50% chance of hurting itself in confusion. Presumably the confusion counter is not decreased when this happens, but it will have to take some exhaustive research to rule this out (and I'm certainly not up to it this week).

This has actually been present since GSC, but it strikes me as such an obscure piece of information I thought I'd post it to gauge just how obscure it really is. Also to confirm that it works this way in DP.

That's interesting. But I expect the confusion counter goes down... Does it go down in-game when using items and such rather than attacking? If it does, the confusion counter should go down every turn, regardless. If not, then you're likely right and the confusion counter's not decreased, but testing is pending. (I'll try later)

 

[Footnote]

What are the algorithms for the sleep and confusion counters, anyhow? Have they changed since Advance? What were they in Advance?

 

[Boa1891]

I'm a tad too busy to do it myself, but I know a good way to test if it lowers confusion counter:
Turn 1:
Confuse Ray
-Filler
Turn 2:
Switch
Pursuit
Turn 3:
Switch
Pursuit

Lather, rinse, and repeat until confusion wears off or until you surpass the max for confusion (6 turns?)

 

[esper88]

If a pokemon with insomnia uses rest, what happens?

 

[Footnote]

If a pokemon with insomnia uses rest, what happens?

Rest fails because of Insomnia. That's one of the reasons that Worry Seed is so cool.

EDIT: I did some testing of Nature Power in PBR. It seems to treat the arenas in the same manner that Secret Power does. This is to say:

Lagoon -- Tri Attack
Gateway -- Hydro Pump
Main Street -- Tri Attack
Waterfall -- Seed Bomb
Neon -- Tri Attack
Crystal -- Rock Slide
Sunny Park -- Seed Bomb?
Magma -- Rock Slide
Sunset -- Eathquake
Courtyard -- Tri Attack?
Stargazer -- Rock Slide

The ones with question marks are the ones I haven't yet tested, but the correlation for the ones I did test was perfect, so I'm going to guess that all of them are correct.

 

[reaverz]

Just dropping by to add some data on the move Transform I have gathered while training a shiny Ditto I found with Pokeradar. Nothing gamebreaking of course, but good data to have for accuracy's sake:

Transform now takes stat boosts from whatever Pokemon it just transformed into. In other words, it acts as Psych Up does. I got suspicious after my Ditto Transformed into a Swellow who had first used Double Team, and thereafter some of the Swellow's Wing/Quick Attacks missed. I then tested it in double battle with a Swords Dancing partner and sure enough, Ditto couldnt use Swords Dance after transforming into a +6 ATK Pokemon.

Another quite curious effect of Transform is that it copies the foe straight down to even its Hidden Power! While fighting Gastrodon, Ditto using Hidden Power while transformed yielded different results once in a while, including the single possible "Does not affect" and "It's Super Effective!" messages. And both Ditto and the Gastrodon would always get the same message when they attacked each other with Hidden Power. This would imply that Transform temporarily copies even IVs along with the Pokemon's stats...

 

[Peterko]

some of the things that have been asked in the damage formula topic

ROLLOUT:
- uses up 1 PP
- 30-60-120-240-480 base power
- 60-120-240-480-960 base power if used defense curl before and didn´t switch/faint, rollout doesn´t have to be used right after defense curl (example: defense curl -> milk drink -> rollout 60 base), one succesfull rollout doesn´t „use up“ the defense curl effect, you can miss with rollout and the next („new“) one will also start at 60 base
- more defense curls (more than 1) don´t boost move power again

TEST1: defense curl, rollout 60-miss, milk drink, rollout 60-120-240-480-KO, milk drink, rollout 60-120-240-miss
TEST2: defense curl, rollout 60-120-240-480-960, milk drink, 60-120-240-480-960, switch, switch, rollout 30-60-miss, defense curl, defense curl, rollout 60-120-240-480-960 ...


ICE BALL works exactly like ROLLOUT, everything I said about rollout applies to ice ball, tested it


FURY CUTTER:
- doubles move power everytime you use the move again, the gained power doesn´t get lost if you use a different move between two fury cutters, it does get lost if you switch/faint
- fury cutter max base power is 160, you get 160 power on the 5th fury cutter you use (10-20-40-80-160) and it stays at 160 until you switch out/faint

tested this with a gliscor, lv. 50, 115attack using fury cutter against 102def snorlax,

damage I got: 75, 81, 72

150 base pwr calc. dmg: 64-76
160 base pwr calc. dmg: 68-81
170 base pwr calc. dmg: 73-86



TRIPLE KICK:
- attacks three times in one turn with the message: „Hit 3 time(s)!

technician hitmontop, lv. 25, 53attack, triple kick vs 20def chansey
damage: 170, and other damages around 165 (with an added lv.9 pachi QA damage)

12 x 53 x 10 / 20 / 50) + 2) x R = 6-8 x 1.5 x 2 = 18-24
12 x 53 x 20 / 20 / 50) + 2) x R = 11-14 x 1.5 x 2 = 32-42
12 x 53 x 30 / 20 / 50) + 2) x R = 17-21 x 1.5 x 2 = 50-62
12 x 53 x 40 / 20 / 50) + 2) x R = 22-27 x 1.5 x 2 = 66-80

12 x 53 x 15 / 20 / 50) + 2) x R = 9-11 x 1.5 x 2 = 26-32
12 x 53 x 30 / 20 / 50) + 2) x R = 17-21 x 1.5 x 2 = 50-62
12 x 53 x 45 / 20 / 50) + 2) x R = 25-30 x 1.5 x 2 = 74-90
12 x 53 x 60 / 20 / 50) + 2) x R = 34-40 x 1.5 x 2 = 102-120


18 + 32 + 50 = 100
24 + 42 + 62 = 128
10-20-30 base power without technician boost: 100-128 dmg

18 + 32 + 66 = 116
24 + 42 + 80 = 146
10-20-40 base power without technician boost: 116-146 dmg

26 + 50 + 74 = 150
32 + 62 + 90 = 184
10-20-30 base power with technician boost: 150-184 dmg

26 + 50 + 102 = 178
32 + 62 + 120 = 214
10-20-40 base power with technician boost: 178-214 dmg


looks like the third kick has 30 base power, after all

EDIT: cut out my personal dmg calcs from the rollout test, which helped me figure out the base power

 

[Deucalion2]

Just dropping by to add some data on the move Transform I have gathered while training a shiny Ditto I found with Pokeradar. Nothing gamebreaking of course, but good data to have for accuracy's sake:

Transform now takes stat boosts from whatever Pokemon it just transformed into. In other words, it acts as Psych Up does. I got suspicious after my Ditto Transformed into a Swellow who had first used Double Team, and thereafter some of the Swellow's Wing/Quick Attacks missed. I then tested it in double battle with a Swords Dancing partner and sure enough, Ditto couldnt use Swords Dance after transforming into a +6 ATK Pokemon.

Another quite curious effect of Transform is that it copies the foe straight down to even its Hidden Power! While fighting Gastrodon, Ditto using Hidden Power while transformed yielded different results once in a while, including the single possible "Does not affect" and "It's Super Effective!" messages. And both Ditto and the Gastrodon would always get the same message when they attacked each other with Hidden Power. This would imply that Transform temporarily copies even IVs along with the Pokemon's stats...

I didn't know the stat boost thing, which is interesting, but as for Hidden Power, transform has been like that since GSC, because it copies the foes stats (with the excepion of HP) exactly, ie, the IVs are the same. This was how the-get-a-shiny-Ditto-using-Shiny-Mimic-Gyarados-trick worked in GSC.

 

[ΩDonut]

I didn't know the stat boost thing, which is interesting, but as for Hidden Power, transform has been like that since GSC, because it copies the foes stats (with the excepion of HP) exactly, ie, the IVs are the same. This was how the-get-a-shiny-Ditto-using-Shiny-Mimic-Gyarados-trick worked in GSC.

Technically, this trick only worked in RBY, since that was where the overwrite-wild-Transforming-Pokemon-IVs glitch existed.

 

[Boa1891]

I would love it if someone could confirm Metronome item works alongside every turn of rollout- I've heard people saying that it only works every time you select an attack (everytime it uses PP).

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Can you get Judgment using the move Metronome?

 

[Akayfortyseven]

Ok, pbr double battle, my mismagius uses sub, rampardos uses earthquake, which breaks the sub... so ability doesnt affect the sub? Levitate should theoretically block it.

 

[Bankai]

Rampardos has Mold breaker, which disables levitate.

 

[Akayfortyseven]

^Oh yeah... I thought of that the second I posted it >_>. Thanks.

 

[X-Act]

REVERSAL

...

2/64 = 3.125%
6/64 = 9.375%
13/64 = 20.3125%
22/64 = 34.375%
43/64 = 67.1875%
of max HP, rounded down

It's difficult to conclude, but those numbers seem quite elegant, Peterko. Very good work.

 

[KevlarX290]

Can you get Judgment using the move Metronome?

Yup.