Moody (Ubers Edition)

[Lickitungyourmom]

Doesn't Kyogore (The most popular pokemon in ubers) easily stop anything with evasion boosts with it's rain boosted thunder?
Also if you see Smeargle switch in (He's the most unpredictable user of the ability) can't you just switch to a roar/whirlwind/perish song user? So whirlwind becomes no.1# phazing move on Lugia, so what? Most offensive teams that won't run a phazer are fast enough to deal with all the inconsistent users before they can set up a sub. They have to get pretty lucky to get evasion boosts straight away, and even luckier still for it to pay off before they're KO'd.
Running aura sphere on Mewtwo isn't really a bad option anyway. It helps vs Tyranitar and Dialga who would otherwise counter him real hard.
Still i hope gamefreak comes up with some better ways to combat this, it's kind of an error on their part to have allowed this ability.

 

[Agent123]

I hate it when people say just switch to your phazer. For the last time, Roar and Whirlwind can miss! Inconsistent is broken, no matter how you look at it. Once something gets 2+ evasion, you've already lost the game. A 1/7 chance to lose a game isn't fair at all. It gets worse when someone runs 2+ inconsistent Pokemon at the same time, which drastically increases their chance of winning. Also, running Thunder and Aura Sphere doesn't cut it. Smeargle just Baton Passes away while the rest of the Pokemon can just sub until they get enough Sp. Def. Boosts to tank the attacks with ease.

 

[Dragon Rider]

Also, running Thunder and Aura Sphere doesn't cut it. Smeargle just Baton Passes away while the rest of the Pokemon can just sub until they get enough Sp. Def. Boosts to tank the attacks with ease.

That's not entirely true.While they can eventually boost fairly high,Thunder and Aura Sphere will still do a chunk.As an example:

Octillery@ Leftovers
Moody Calm (-Atk + Sp.Def)
252 HP/252 Sp.Def
-Substitute
-Protect
-Surf
-Energy Ball/Ice Beam

Timid Scarf 252 Sp.Atk Kyogre/Palkia/Dialga Thunder vs this Octillery:
+0 71.2%-84.2%
+2 35.6%-42.4%
+4 24.3%-28.8%
+6 18.1%-21.5%

So it needs +4 to have a chance of the Sub surviving even when maxed out on Sp.Def and these guys with no boosts to their special outside of EVs.Never mind Specs/Orb/Expert Belt as an item or even Calm Mind in Kyogre's case.Obviously Modest deals even more as well.

While that same Octillery vs 0/0:
+0 Energy Ball vs. Kyogre 26.4%-31.7%
+2 Energy Ball vs. Kyogre 52.8%-62.2%
+0 Energy Ball vs. Palkia 15.9%-19%
+6 Energy Ball vs. Palkia 63.6%-75.1%
+6 Energy Ball vs. Dialga 17.3%-20.5%
+6 Ice Beam vs. Dialga 82.7%-97.9%
+6 Ice Beam vs. Kyogre 31.1%-36.7%

So if you pick Energy Ball, Dialga marches all over it and Kyogre handles Ice Beam variants.Oh, these Scarf sets also outrun this bulky variant until it has +4 in speed.So in the end, these Rain titans handle Octillery fairly well.I haven't ran calcs for Bibarel but his stats are lower in every regard besides HP (79 vs 75) and Speed (71 vs 45).His normal type adds a weakness to Aura Sphere for more ubers to pound on.

I can't comment on Glalie and Smeargle since I haven't played Dream World Ubers but I will admit Smearle looks like he could be a right big pain to beat.I'm probably missing something.That's very possible since I haven't seen very many Moody users in Ubers and the ones I have seen either die quick to Thunder or stall a bit while hammer at it.So help is appreciated.

 

[calze6]

PP stall and switch are a nice way of dealing with this.

 

[Agent123]

@Dragon Rider

Okay, so maybe they can't tank those attacks. However, with enough speed boosts, eventually they'll just keep on subbing until they have enough Sp. Atk. to wipe the floor with you. With 2+ Moody Pokemon, this isn't too hard.

 

[Dragon Rider]

I'm sure Moody Pokemon can come out on top against some of their counters with enough boosts.Its what they did in OU and I know they can do it in Ubers too.I think the main difference is that most Ubers are better equipped to deal with them as most have access to Thunder,several have Aura Sphere, and just their raw power can kill them in a shot or two.When I faced Moody in OU, even if I got an attack through, it might not take them out in a couple hits.They don't have that luxury in Ubers.

With that said,I think a team sporting Toxic Spikes and the Sun could just destroy an unprepared team as you can hopefully just stall out certain threats like Kyogre (unless its ResTalk) while boosting.

 

[calze6]

There is almost no surefire counter other than haze, unaware and heart swap.

 

[TM13IceBeam]

All three of which are uncommon in ubers(the only mon with unaware that can actually function in Ubers is Quagsire, and I'd prefer Water Absorb to wall Kyogre tyvm). Manaphy can't be bothered with Heart Swap(the only use I can see is in doubles where Manaphy sets up and then gives the boosts to an incoming teammate. if only there was a water-type Overheat that Manaphy could learn, it could actually work). Haze is given to all the shitty Pokemon in the meta, except for Weezing(lolWeezing in Ubers)

 

[calze6]

Exactly. You need something really obscure to fully counter it which makes inconsistent broken. Now someone get it banned!

 

[Focus]

Exactly. You need something really obscure to fully counter it which makes inconsistent broken. Now someone get it banned!

You know that whether or not Moody is broken in Ubers is not a valid argument for getting something banned from Ubers, I hope. There are conventional (totally viable) methods of dealing with Moody that do not involve Haze, Heart Swap, or something even more absurd. Stallbreaker Giratina-O, Roar Dialga (especially with Toxic Spikes), and practically anything with Thunder all handle Moody reasonably well. Yes, they often require a bit of luck, but they seem to work more often than not.

I have not really faced any outstanding players that used a Moody pokemon since round 1 OU suspect testing. As vastly underrepresented as it is in Ubers, I have found it to be almost a non-issue in the current Ubers metagame. (Am I really the only one who uses it with any frequency?) Octillery can save you from the brink of disaster occasionally, but it can also be more or less a wasted teamslot (similar to the situation with Evasion moves and OHKO moves on other servers). All in all, I still generally win/lose against the same opponents while running Moody or not, so I hardly believe arguments that it "takes away skill" in the sense that a mediocre player with Moody should usually beat a good player without it.

Just my two cents on the topic as of recently.

 

[Zebstrika]

Exactly. You need something really obscure to fully counter it which makes inconsistent broken. Now someone get it banned!

In Advance, Skarmory was the main reason Magneton found its way to OU. Skarmory wasn't banned.

It's going to be much harder to ban something from Ubers.

 

[Agent123]

The thing is, Magneton wasn't that bad in Gen. 3 as it could kill other steels beside Skarmory as well. Now tell me, are you seriously comparing using Magneton in Gen. 3 to using Eviolite Golbat in Ubers?

 

[calze6]

Toxic spikes is dealt with arceus-P. How does stallbreaker gira-o beat moody? Roar dialga can also be beaten by evasion boosts and ice beam.

 

[Focus]

Toxic spikes is dealt with arceus-P. How does stallbreaker gira-o beat moody? Roar dialga can also be beaten by evasion boosts and ice beam.

Really the only thing I can say is this: very smart playing. I don't recall seeing many Octillery with Ice Beam, but that would just mean different counters beat it, like Kyogre. The idea with Gitatina-O is to come in when Octillery is slower, set up a Sub, Calm Mind a few times, then fire away Aura Spheres that can smash through Ocillery's subs. Giratina resists water, grass, and fire, making it able to tank hits quite well after Calm Mind. Behind a Sub, Toxic will not work, and it also has Levitate that makes Toxic Spikes ineffective. It is not a 100% counter, but it is pretty good.

 

[ScizorMeTimbers]

I thought the whole point of the Ubers metagame is it was everything that was deemed to powerful for Standard? I agree that Moody is the dumbest shit ever made, and I wish it wasn't, but banning something from Ubers seems like a little much.

 

[Focus]

The evasion and OHKO clauses that are in place now are effectively bans from all official Smogon tiers, including Ubers. Banishing Moody via clause is what people have in mind. This is because it appears that Ubers can handle Moody better than any other official tier and yet there is a notion that it is both too luck-based and too good to be allowed even there.

 

[j99ubers]

Ubers actually handles Moody worse than other tiers. Almost all Moody teams will run tentacruel or some other poison type to absorb tspikes and lay their own. But almost no poison type pokemon exist in ubers to absorb the toxic spikes. There is also the lower amount of phazers in ubers and most of them run Dragon Tail which wont phaze through subs. And while it is not common in ou, I have seen some things (notbaly Politoed) run haze/perish song which are never run in ubers.

 

[calze6]

You mean poison arceus doesn't exist? The problem is, moody is uncommon but if you truely want to beat it, you have to use something else uncommon and very specific.

 

[Virizion]

Excuse me, but HOW is this ability overpowered? I saw a Battle Video of a Moody Bibarel, they Protected, got +2 Def and -1 Atk, then got hit for like 95% damage from a Physical move and couldn't Sub. Then they got +2 SpA and -1 Spe, and the turn after that I guess they just gave up because they didn't use Protect again.

I doubt this ability will work well in Ubers.

 

[R_N]

Excuse me, but HOW is this ability overpowered? I saw a Battle Video of a Moody Bibarel, they Protected, got +2 Def and -1 Atk, then got hit for like 95% damage from a Physical move and couldn't Sub. Then they got +2 SpA and -1 Spe, and the turn after that I guess they just gave up because they didn't use Protect again.

I doubt this ability will work well in Ubers.

It's overpowered for that 1/7 chance a turn of getting the +2 Evasion, mostly.

 

[Virizion]

It's overpowered for that 1/7 chance a turn of getting the +2 Evasion, mostly.

Evasion seems nerfed this gen anyway.. Alot of hits connect to my Whimsicott after 2-3 DT's in Random Matchup. And, a +6 Evasion/-3 Attacking stat Poke isn't too threatening.. Or if it got -Def boosts, then it's just easier to kill (assuming you hit it)

This ability is overrated.

 

[ZetoTarken]

That's probably because you haven't played someone good using it. It doesn't SEEM broken but then you play the person who actually knows what they're doing. On paper Moody seems perfectly fine, yes. In practice, its easily abused and a few anecdotes on how it didn't work out so well for someone isn't going to change the fact that it's horribly broken.

 

[Virizion]

That's probably because you haven't played someone good using it. It doesn't SEEM broken but then you play the person who actually knows what they're doing. On paper Moody seems perfectly fine, yes. In practice, its easily abused and a few anecdotes on how it didn't work out so well for someone isn't going to change the fact that it's horribly broken.

It's the easiest Bibarel set to use, other than the CurseAttack one.. How could someone not know how to use it? They were also Japanese. Hopefully everyone is aware of how much skill they possess on average.

 

[ZetoTarken]

There is a difference between using Moody and being GOOD at using moody and it has nothing to do with whether or not Moody is easy to use. Similarly, Jibaku and I can both use the same Groudon set but Jibaku will simply do a better job at keeping it alive. His set is just as easy to use as mine is but Jibaku is better at using Groudon defensively than I am.
And I don't care how skilled a race usually is because it has nothing to do with if the particular player is any good whatsoever.

 

[calze6]

Although only having to spam sub and protect makes it a bit easy.