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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. sb879

    sb879
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    When dealing with normal trainers you'll probably outspeed more things than you'd expect, but a lot of things will still be faster than you. As for frailty, it is indeed pretty bad. It's generally 3-4hko'd by even weaker pokemon, and come late/endgame most good STAB moves 2hko you (hell, Iris's Hydreigon nearly OHKOd me with its neutral Dragon Pulse). Seviper also has a hard time OHKOing stuff back, since Poison Jab hits hardly anything super effective and it only has 80 BP, and its most of Seviper's coverage moves come very late. Even during normal trainer battles, it wasn't uncommon to be forced to switch out versus trainers I didn't even have a type disadvantage against, and rarely did I finish battles with even half my health remaining.
  2. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    its moves dont come late if u teach it dark pulse, aqua tail, and sludge wave tho.
  3. breh

    breh mfw lucky 'n' bad
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    Yes, seviper is indeed that bad. It's really weak and remains weak when it gets its meager 80 BP STAB.
  4. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    95 stab tho
  5. Age of Kings

    Age of Kings of the Ash Legion
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    Solosis - mid tier or limbo between middle and low tier
    Availability: as soon as you get to Nimbasa (exclusive to White 2)
    Stats: Reuniclus is one of the most powerful non-legendary Pokemon available in your walkthrough; its only drawback stats-wise is very low speed. However, Solosis and Duosion are somewhat fragile and slow but possess a very high SpA stat.
    Typing: Not great, but not too awful either.
    Movepool: Its level-up movepool is awful. In fact, it's recommended you wait until you get to Strange House to capture one because you'll only have a crappy Hidden Power to work with for the first few levels and Solosis' relative fragility and low speed do it no favors. Keep Hidden Power until you get decent TMs because, depending on what it is, it will be the only thing it has to prevent being completely walled by Dark and/or Steel types. Reuniclus is renowned for its excellent movepool in competitive play but you will not have access to these resources during your playthrough. Recover is nice to have, though.
    Major Battles: Meh. The abundance of Dark and Steel types do it no favors. As Reuniclus, it is bulky enough to not be useless against the Ghost and Dark E4 members, but it's not the most reliable thing to have.
    Additional Comments: As good as Reuniclus is, the pain of getting there isn't worth it. I would recommend you skip it, especially if you are doing a no-trades walkthrough.
  6. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    He doesn't learn Sludge Wave without MASSIVE grinding in PWT/Subway, so for a in game ranking, Sludge Wawve doesn't exist for Seviper. Deal with it. Seviper has cool design & offenses, but his defenses, typing & speed are disappointing
  7. Zandock

    Zandock

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    Thanks for the list. About to start my next run so might as well do a quick run down of my team the first time through

    Azurill: - High
    Availability: Flocessy Ranch. Very early on, and not too hard to encounter.
    Stats: Attack is the reason you raise Azurill. Its speed is nothing to write home about, but it has enough bulk to allow it to hit back hard with huge power.
    Typing: Pure water is pretty great. There's not too much that resists you or hits super effectively after Nimbasa
    Movepool: Aqua Tail and Return are all you'll need for a good while, as it offers perfect coverage in-game. Rollout + Defense Curl can even be helpful early on. Super Power and Ice Punch are good options later on. Or just stock up on HMs if want.
    Major Battles: Nothing special against the first two gyms, though Return can do work if you aren't stingy with potions or do some walking around. Burgh and Elesa don't give much of a chance to shine, though you can use it against Burgh's Dwebble at least. Clay is a clean sweep. And you can Ice Punch through most of Skyla (Or even Rollout if you still have it for some reason) if you don't have an Electric type. Drayden is susceptible to Ice Punch once again. You can trade neutral hits with Marlon fairly easily, but Jellicent stops you cold.

    Does fine against most of Plasma, including Zinzolin, just powering though with Aqua Tail. Not much help against Corless, though. Superpower can helm against Grimsly, but isn't of much particular help against the E4. Ice Punch is as useful as ever against Iris.
    Additional Comments: If you don't mind taking the time to get Azurill past the baby stage it will serve you well throughout the whole game. Highly recommend spending 10 Shards to get Ice Punch. Mine wound up with Waterfall/Ice Punch/Super Power/Surf. But you could even replace Super Power with Strength to have an HM slave who still wrecks things.

    Riolu - Mid
    Availability: Flocessy ranch, almost immediately. Rare
    Stats: Lucario winds up with great stats where they matter. Attack, Special Attack, and enough speed for in-game. Defenses are enough to live a hit or two with his typing.
    Typing: Steel is great as usual for resists. Fighting STAB is great as always.
    Movepool: This is what stops Lucario from being High in my opinion. Being stuck with Force Palm for so long is just painful. Return is great, but it's hardly exclusive to him. I don't have the patience to grind BP so Brick Break was out of reach. Bone Rush/Dig can offer a little more coverage. Dark Pulse was a great boon for me. Winding up with Calm Mind and Aura sphere made it all worth it in the end.
    Major Battles: If you do some grinding Force Palm will walk all over Cheren. Otherwise Counter works fine too. Grinding Happiness makes Roxie a breeze if you manage to evolve. Rock Tomb can be used to plow through Burgh. But Return is just as good against everything but Dwebble if you have enough happiness to evolve. Isn't particularly great against the rest of the gyms, and probably a bad idea against Clay. Absolutely wrecks 3/4 the E4 with Calm Mind, Dark Pulse and Aura Sphere, only having to sit out against Marshal. Can do plenty against Iris once you get past Hydreigon's flamethrower.

    Resists just about all of Team Rocket's attacks, and makes quick work of Zinzolin and Corless. Set up six Calm Minds against Ghetsis' Cofragrigus and swept his whole team.
    Additional Comments: The most painful part about Lucario is Force Palm and some time babying or just running up and down for a little while. Going with Swords Dance might also be useful, but I had a lot of success with Calm Mind.

    Trapinch - Low
    Availability: Desert Resort, before the 4th gym, rare.
    Stats: Pretty disappointing at every stage. Trapinch has great attack, but is so slow and frail you can hardly use it. Vibrava is still frail, and actually loses attack. Flygon is fairly well rounded, but after all the work you go through, it just doesn't seem worth it for only middling attack and "okay" bulk.
    Typing: Ground isn't a bad typing for when you get it. Dragon/Ground is very nice with its resistances.
    Movepool: You're stuck with Dig all the way through. Rock Slide is an early saving grace. Dragon Claw is a looong way off for a usable second stab, and no Outrage hurts. A few coverage moves like Crunch or Fire Punch are okay. Fly gives it utility and something to hit grass, bug, and fighting types with.
    Major Battles: Trapinch is Top Tier for the gym battle right after you catch it. It walks all over Elesa with Dig and Rockslide for Emolga. You might want an Eviolite on it to make sure you survive Zebstrika's Flame Charge.
    If you manage to evolve it before Clay, Sandslash can't hurt it too badly and Dig is okay against Excadrill. Rock Slide can be used against Skyla. Drayden will walk all over you. Doesn't have much to do against Marlon, either. Not much special against the E4. Crunch might be good against Caitlyn and Shauntaul, and Fly is okay against Marshal. Dragon Claw won't take out the Champ's dragons and they'll OHKO you back.

    Zinzolin will take you out with Ice Beam. Dig is useful against Corless at least. Can help out against Ghetsis's poison types.
    Additional Comments: The amount of babying you have to do for such a small payoff just wasn't worth it to me. Trapinch and Vibrava took loads of damage, even with Eviolite on. And Flygon just doesn't hit all too hard.

    Litwick - High
    Availability: Celestial Towe, just before Gym 6. Very common
    Stats: Poor as a Litwick, but amazing as a Chandelure. Skyhigh special attack, with enough speed to get over some things, and okay bulk.
    Typing: Ghost is always a great typing for switching in on fighting or normal type moves. It does kind of suck how pretty much every fighting type has Dark or Rock type moves, though. Fire typing doesn't grant resistances to many common attacking types late in the game, unfortunately. Ghost and Fire stab is resisted by nothing in-game I can think of.
    Movepool: You start off with Flame Burst, WoW, and Hex. Which is good enough to get you through to Reversal Mountain where you upgrade to Shadow Ball. You can get Fire Blast shortly after, but I found that Flame Burst was good enough to use until Flamethrower. You can add on stuff like Energy Ball or Psychic. But really, I never used anything besides my STABs or WoW. Chandelure is just so overpowering with them.
    Major Battles: Litwick can put in some work vs Skyla's Swoobat and Skarmory, just keep it away from Swanna. Drayden's pokemon all have Dark moves, but if you burn them you can still fire off super strong Shadow Balls if need be. Marlon's pokemon can be beaten with Energy Ball and Shadow Ball, but it is a little risky. None of Shauntal's pokemon want to take a Shadow Ball. Obviously stay away from Grimsly. Marshall can be a problem too thanks to all the Dark and Rock moves.

    Zinzolin and Corles are very fire weak. Chandelure can easily take out Ghetsis's Cofagrigus, and his Palpitoad if you carry Energy Ball.
    Additional Comments: The only bad part about Chandelure is Litwick. But it's just a few Audino's away from becoming a Litwick. All the moves you need are TMs, so you can evolve immediately again with the Dusk Stone from the Strange House. Chandelure's Special Attack is just so high it overpowers just about everything you come across.


    I also used Mareep and Venipede, but I think their tiering is good where it is.
  8. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    Trust me, It's not that great. Like I said, it's not so bad in normal fights, but against Gyms/E4 he was virtually pointless. He's not bad per se, but in terms of an efficiency/speed run (Which is what these tiers come down too) he is no where near a good choice.

    Just a note on Seviper, I trained one in SS and thought it was terrible then too.
  9. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    i was under the impression that mandibuzz was uncatchable until after burgh thanks to team crustle

    np + snarl is pretty decent when you get her and is immediately available, and imo you should just go offense since mandibuzz is bulky enough to sustain some hits even with weak armor (which makes her go faster). air slash and dark pulse don't come until stupidly late (around marlon or before him) so she's stuck with basically np/snarl/pluck or AA/faint attack all the way until humilau because for some stupid reason most of her good tutor moves (heat wave, roost) are in there too.

    @zandock: SD Return? return has excellent neutral coverage with force palm, only failing to hit ghosts which you can smack with dark pulse. lucario isn't really mid imo
  10. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    Team Crustle does indeed block players from accessing Mandibuzz, as the area you get her in is that ruined city which is past Team Crustle.

    As for Lucario, I think High is just right for it. It packs a nifty resistance to lots of attacks (like Magnemite, anyone?) and it has a nice movepool to work with. It does sorta need to grab Ice Punch from the Driftveil tutor, but...

    Not to mention that Sawk, Throh and Meinshao are all MIA for most of the game. It does have competition with Conk and Scrafty though.

    Also, did anyone mention the best part about Zubat? Poison/Flying. Quad resistant to Bug and Fighting type attacks. It's able to easily demolish most of the fighting types in-game, just like the last three generations its been in. I always considered it the best Fighting type counter for in-game purposes because 99% of the Fighting types in-game don't pack Rock type attacks, and the ones that do, Crobat OHKOs. It's also blazingly fast (130 Base Speed, same as Aerodactyl who doesn't exist), and it outspeeds the majority of the in-game enemies it fights.

    Again, Watchog is great for early-game. It just...destroys. You don't realize just how good having an early game Crunch is until you realize it's 80 Base Power that hits Rock types.

    Lemme just nip this in the bud right now. Azurill's stats are pisspoor. The only reason you would want to use one is to get an early water type, which isn't even needed. I played through the game just fine without a Water type.

    Top tier is a tier for things that make the game infinitely easier. Scrafty destroys entire Gyms with Moxie, and Magnezone has its 130 Base SpAtk and resistances that make it reliable for the whole game.

    Azurill...has terrible stats. Having 20/20/20 in your offensive stats is not what I want to deal with. SUNKURN has better offenses than Azurill, with straight 30's. I don't want to hunt for a Huge Power Azurill when I can just wait a bit and have a perfectly good Marill by Gym 5 or something.

    It's also pretty rare. In my hour long grinding session for my battle with Challenge Mode Cheren in my W2 Nuzlocke, I found five Azurill. I am NOT hunting that long for something that'll be deadweight for a good part of the game thanks to lolfriendship.

    Taken from Bulbapedia:

    "Azurill is, by statistical average, the weakest Normal-type Pokémon, and overall the second-weakest Pokémon in the games, stronger only than Sunkern."

    This thing deserves top tier? Really? Magnemite is stupid easy to level up, as is Moxie Scraggy. Those two break the game. Azumarill is...only ok. It isn't great, and you'll probably dump it for something like Jellicent anyway. You face very few Pokemon that are actually weak to Water in the first place. I never missed having a Water type on my team on my first playthrough of B2.

    tl;dr I'd rather wait than use fucking Azurill.
  11. slowking

    slowking

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    Ah, my bad. I didn't get mine until after Burgh, though I assumed it would be possible based on SuperJOCKE's list.
  12. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    @Alice in strings: using Azurill isn't nearly as bad as your making it sound. It 2hkoes everything with frustration, then return, and should be a marill by lvl 17. You're acting like your stuck with Azurill till gym 4 or something
  13. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

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    The problem is, when do you really want to use Marill? Gym 5, of course, where you happen to find it in the wild.
  14. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    I made a case before for Dunsparce being High, although now i think Mid:


    Dunsparce is exceptionally powerful for the stage of the game you get it, with massive bulk, good offenses, and STAB Return. It can solo Roxie by stats alone, and Burgh with Rollout. It remains useful against Elesa, and can even hold it's own against Clay with it's Return and Dig.

    It doesn't even fall off completely, because it gets Roost and Coil later, allowing it to set up.

    It's not useless like the other Bottoms. Hell, Dunsparce is EASILY better than Patrat and Sunkern, and they're in Low.

    I wouldn't agree at all with Dunsparce being Bottom, if only because of it's potential as a Disc 1 nuke. Dunsparce should be Low at worst, Mid at best. In my opinion, Bottom is for pokemon who are completely useless on an in-game run. You can catch a Dunsparce and use it to power through solo to where you can get to Route 4/Resort Desert and then you can grab stuff like Scraggy and Siliglyph and Darumaka.

    Dunsparce isn't even useless lategame, unlike the other bottoms.

    For that matter, Sunkern should be Bottom Tier. It's useless, you're stuck with it until Gym 4, and it has a disadvantage against Gyms 2 and 3 to boot, and you should be using that 1 Sun Stone on a Cherubi.

    Speaking of, Cherubi is either Top or High Tier. Not sure which. It destroys B/W2 even more than B/W1, because Ice Gym is gone and replaced with Water.

    Solrock for Low. It comes too late to be useful, and... well... too late in the game in the first place. To put into perspective, Lapras is available about 5 mins later if you dodge trainers, and Lapras is about 5 times more useful, if harder to find. By this logic, Lunatone for Low.

    It's say Litwick is Mid. There is no Ice Gym anymore. There is a Water Gym. That hurts. Litwick's match-ups from when you can catch it are unfavorable for the majority, except Caitlyn and Corless. [Marshall spams Rock moves]

    Deerling is High Tier. It just WRECKS with a moveset of Seed Bomb/Jump Kick/Return, easily obtainable. Ice Gym Water Gym blah blah. I used a Sawsbuck once, and it just rolled faces.


    Also you can get it Swords Dance if you want. Which just gets stupid.

    These don't need much explanation that's not alrealy been provided.
  15. Rajaion Tagami

    Rajaion Tagami

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    you mean Petilil, right?
  16. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    Why not get it at the beggining of the game, it wrecks stuff there too. in my 1st playthrough, i solod cheren with it and also solod burgh with it, tho it was a marill by then. Then from there it obviously wrecked everything
  17. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    i think i did remember posting an analysis of Flocessy Azurill vs. R6 Marill, what i got was that both are essentially similar in their roles that the only thing Azurill is notable in is the period where it exists before R6 which isn't very significant, considering you have Lillipup and Patrat to contend with. Marill's useless against Burgh (grass types everywhere) and Elesa anyway.

    in essence, R6 Marill = Flocessy Azurill, so if you don't like Azurill you can just grab R6 Marill and still get what's basically the same thing, which gives you the breathing room to raise something else (zubat, riolu, lillipup and mareep all come to mind)

    @raikaria: the only thing holding dunsparce back is stupid rarity (5% in rustling grass FTW) and its mediocrity after earlygame. it's kind of like jeigan in FE, useful early on then starts getting outclassed by everything midgame...

    also uh cherubi is not available, i assume you mean petilil?
  18. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    Excuse me while I facepalm. I don't even know why I said Cherubi.

    Yes, I mean Petilil.

    Also, Dunsparce is rare. OK.

    Lapras is equally rare, in water bubbles, much later in the game. It's Low Tier. Lapras is useful for about the same amount of the game as Dunsparce too. [Lapras due to being very late, it's also useless at Gym 8, average at the E4, although it does beat Drayden and Iris quite handily, it can't solo them because slow.] Lapras also comes underleveled, your team should be nearing the 50's by that point, not 30~40.

    Dunsparce should not be Bottom. Bottom is for useless trash like Purrloin and Sunkern. Dunsparce has use.

    Anyway, I don't have tons of time to write stuff up, so I'll just leave thoughts and some brief notes on the unteired things:


    • Lillipup - Mid, it's not as good as B/W2, simply because the level curve is steeper, and there are generally better pokemon around, so Lilipup gets outclassed sooner.
    • Pansear - Low, comes too late, hurt by Ice Gym to Water Gym.
    • Panpour - Mid, it's better than the other monkeys and a solid water type.
    • Pansage - Low, got a little better because of Ice -> Water, but is still bad
    • Nosepass (I think) - Low, possibly Bottom. Comes late, can't do anything, although you can instantly evolve it.
    • Sewaddle (I think) - Mid, it comes pretty early, you can fully evolve it by Burgh still, and it gets Bug Bite pretty early so actually out-muscles Cheren
    • Audino - Low, it's Audino...
    • Rattata - Low, outclassed by Lilipup
    • Grimer - Low, it's not got a reliable way to abuse Venoshock, although Muk is decent if you get some tutor moves on it.
    • Onix - I'd actually say Low for Onix, Mid or maybe pushing High for Steelix. Onix is fast, and comes at the perfect time, it can destroy the 3rd and 4th Gyms. You can Theif a Metal Coat off Magnemites too. Steelix is useful at Gyms 6 and 7, and against 3 of the E4, and Iris.
    • Skitty - Bottom. It's useless
    • Buneary - Bottom, it's awful
    • Cottonee - Low, it's not very-useful for in-game unless you like to stall. It can still beat stuff, just slowly.
    • Petlil - High or Top. This thing wrecks in-game B/W2 even harder than B/W1.
    • Clefairy - Low
    • Eevee --> Flareon - Low
    • Eevee --> Umbreon - Low or Mid. You can get TM Payback pretty early, giving Umbreon a pretty good STAB because it's slow.
    • Basculin - Low, there's far better stuff to get with Surf.
    • Trubbish - I'd say Mid, because it comes earlier than before, ruins Burgh with T-Spikes + Venoshock, and can then do some work with Acid Spray + Sludge.
    • Maractus - Mid, if only because Grass types in general are better in B/W2, and Maractus was never *bad* just mediocre.
    • Klink - Low, because Magnemite exists 4 gyms sooner
    • Gothita - Low, it's slow, it's pretty frail, and it's movepool is bad
    • Solosis - Mid, it's decent, but not as good as B/W1 because there are more Steels
    • Combee - Bottom
    • Emolga - Low
    • Pinsir - Mid, it's pretty powerful, it just ain't Heracross.
    • Zebstrika - Low, it comes too late to be useful except as a Gym 6 Crutch.
    • Karrablast - Bottom
    • Shelmet - Bottom
    • Foongus - Low, staller
    • Castform - Bottom/Low. You can get the Weather TM's on the other side of Chargestone...
    • Baltoy - Low, it's not that good, evolves somewhat late, and you have to go off the beaten path for it.
    • Ferroseed - Low, staler, comes late...
    • Alomomola - Bottom
    • Zangoose - Mid. It comes somewhat late but is pretty useful.
    • Seviper - Low, it comes pretty late and isn't very useful, far better Posions by this stage.
    • Cubchoo - Low, comes too late, Grotto or Season specific, isn't that useful
    • Numel - Low
    • Spoink - Low
    • Banette - Low
    • Pelipper - Bottom, Swanna is better in every way
    • Lunatone - Low
    • Absol - Low, it comes too late and is too frail and average in speed to be much use
    • Gligar - Low, it comes too late
    • Pawniard - Low, comes too late, Magnemite is a better Steel
    • Terrakion - Mid, it comes late but is brutally powerful
    • Cobalion - Mid, comes late but the right time, seeing as it's just before Gym 7...
    • Virizion - Mid, it's powerful, and comes around the right time, not too far from Gym 8
    • Shuckle- Bottom
    • Remoraid - Low
    • Corsola - Bottom
    • Wailmer - Low
    • Spheal - Low/Mid. It's easier to find than Lapras but fills the same role.
    • Swablu - Low, too late, you should just use an Axew
    • Vulpix - Low, too late
    • Bronzor - Bottom, staller, comes too late
    • Ditto - Bottom for obvious 'can't win unless it has imposter or AI derp'
    • Sneasel - Low, comes FAR too late
    • Delibird - Bottom
    • Seel - Low, effectively a worse Spheal
    • Throh - Low, comes far too late
    • Sawk - Low, comes far too late
    • Bouffalant - Low
    • Druddigon - Low
    • Zweilous - Low
  19. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Nosepass Low? Probopass might have a niche in being a steel-type that can defend specially. his typing is bad but he can rid one of his x4 weakness with magnet rise, he has sturdy, and Steel is just an overall useful typing ingame, and Lock-on + Zap Cannon nuking endgame may be useful (although it's better to just twave outright). Mid imo, although he's really just hanging around there.

    Buneary might be ok because you can use 102 BP STAB frustration immediately, but the big problem is the evolution which is very painful because of Buneary's 0 base happiness. The instant utility might be good for low, but idk

    Most of these are fine imo (although i'd push Druddigon to bottom but the reasons don't really hold). I'd argue for Zangoose too if it didn't just so happen that SD is now L43 instead of L9. That's just dumb. >.>
  20. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    regardless of when u get maril, it's still top tier material. All it does is OHKO sh1t
  21. Antihaxxer

    Antihaxxer

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    I agree on most of your comments, but here's my list of change
    • Lillipup - Still high for me :) You get the relearner earlier for Elemental Fangs (especially fire for all the bug/grass/steel pokemon around Clay
    • Onix - Mid at best, but Low seems better. Steelix needs trading, I'm not sure if there is wild Steelix in B2W2.
    • Buneary - Mid for me : Frustration // Return + Jump Kick + Bounce coverage, nice speed and decent defenses are OK for mid tier.
    • Ferroseed - Mid for me : Nice stab, Slow but very sturdy, no more fire type in late game ...
    • Numel - Mid for me. Great dual stab. Can go physical, special, or mixed. Can grind easily in Reverseal mountain with Flame Burst / Magnitude. But he's very good against all Plasma fights (Corless, Shadow Trio, Zingzolin ...)
    • Gligar - Mid for me. If you need a physical tank for Marshall, here's you guy.
    • Spheal - Mid for me. Perfect type for end game ...
  22. The Cicada

    The Cicada

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    Zwelious should be bottom not low. fcking sucks, comes late, cant become hydreigon till post game unless u overlevel.
  23. BowlArt64

    BowlArt64

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    I'd like to make a case for Volcarona being High Tier.

    Volcarona: - High

    Availability: Stationary in the PWT-accessible part of the Relic Castle, available after Clay at Lv. 35.

    Stats: Higher Special Attack, Special Defense, and Speed than most anything available at that point, and it stays that way right through the end. The other stats are subpar, but it doesn't need them most of the time.

    Typing: Fire/Bug STAB is brilliant offensively, only stopped by Chandelure. Defensively, it isn't anything special, but it has notable resists in Fighting, Ice, Bug, and Grass.

    Movepool: It starts off with next to nothing and doesn't get much by level-up until later on, but luckily it has the Signal Beam tutor readily available. It's more than enough to get by until Route 13 for Psychic, then soon after it can pick up Fire Blast from Lacunosa. Decent filler exists in the form of Will-O-Wisp to cushion its physical Defense, and Quiver Dance at Lv. 59 can be learned before or during the Elite Four if you're willing to give it a couple extra levels. Other tutor moves include Giga Drain and Roost.

    Major Battles:
    Skyla: The only use it has here is Fire Spin against her Skarmory, and maybe the neutral Signal Beam against Swoobat. Otherwise, steer clear.
    Hugh: Unfezant is tough, but the monkey is too frail to pose a significant challenge. Serperior is easy EXP, but Emboar and Samurott should be avoided. Later on, Bouffalant is bulky enough to take a hit and strong enough to OHKO you unless you burn it first. There are better options most of the time against him.
    Zinzolin (All): It manhandles him every time. Fire Blast comes right in time to destroy his Cryogonal, and the Sneasel/Weavile is weak to both of your STABs and can only Night Slash you at best, which likely won't OHKO.
    Drayden: It can spread burns and get strong neutral hits, but that's about it. The thing is, burn completely cripples Haxorus and Druddigon, and neuters Flygon. Watch out for Flygon's (and if in Challenge Mode, Druddigon's) Rock Slide, though.
    Shadow Triad: All of their Pokemon are easily OHKOed, no questions asked.
    Marlon: Sit this one out, you're not doing anything in here.
    Colress: Avoid full-HP Magnets due to Thunder Wave, but otherwise, you walk all over him. Steels die to Fire Blast, Beheeyem to Signal Beam.
    Kyurem-(B/W): It can get off a strong Fire Blast to take it down after it's been weaked, or in the case of Kyurem-B, Will-O-Wisp can cripple it. Kyurem-W's special attacks are taken fairly well with all that special bulk.
    Ghetsis: Arguably the biggest use it has here is dealing massive damage to his Hydreigon with Signal Beam. Otherwise, it handles Cofagrigus and Toxicroak admirably with Fire Blast and Psychic, respectively. If you have Giga Drain, then Seismitoad goes down. Everything else is tough to crack, though.
    Shauntal: Cofagrigus is massive setup bait if you have Quiver Dance. If you don't, then Drifblim and Golurk can be burned and/or hit with Flamethrower. Chandelure requires Psychic and some boosts to get by, however. At least she dropped the Jellicent, right?
    Grimsley: The only problem here at all is Scrafty, who is bulky enough to take a Signal Beam and retaliate with Rock Tomb. If you can stomach setting up on Attract Liepard, then you're all set once it goes down.
    Caitlin: Grab a couple Quiver Dances, wake it up, then win. In case you don't have Quiver Dance, she can still be mostly beaten with unboosted Signal Beam, but Sigilyph and her bulky Pokemon might survive a hit to do a little damage back.
    Marshal: It can't afford to set up here, and Throh and Conkeldurr have Guts. Fortunately, it is probably faster than everything he has, and can mop up weakened Pokemon with Psychic or Flamethrower. If you don't intend to use it here, then it makes a great suicidal way to break Sawk's Sturdy.
    Iris: Quiver Dance lets you survive Hydreigon's Surfs and easily KO it, then get a couple big hits on her other Pokemon. Without Quiver Dance, it's best used to revenge kill Hydreigon and maybe burn Haxorus. Almost everything she has can hit you super effectively, though, so be careful.

    Additional Comments: It creams Team Plasma and most of the Elite Four, whilst never really losing steam earlier on. Sure, it has to sit out of a couple major battles, but they aren't particularly challenging, just unfriendly to Volc. My set going into the Elite Four was Quiver Dance | Flamethrower | Signal Beam | Psychic, and it swept all but Caitlin (who was demolished by Krookodile alone), Marshal, and Iris. Volc even helped out against the latter two by breaking Sawk's Sturdy and KOing Hydreigon. It doesn't even come late, really, despite only being available after the 5th Gym. There's still more than plenty to do in the game, and Volcarona really helped me out.
  24. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcher
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    I'm sorry. It doesn't have massive bulk. 100/70/65 is not massive bulk. I agree, at the start it is good but it does fall off super badly. I initially voted it Low rather than Bottom too. Also: You seem totally fixated on Roost as a primary move? Dunsparce is slow as mountains. Potions are infinitely better than *any Self Recovery move* for in game purposes. And you barely have time to get off more than one Coil in a match. Like I said, in every major battle it can usually only get off one hit than dies horribly. Mine was Glare/Coil/Return/Drill Run and I couldn't really find anything better to work with it.

    I played with Sunflora too, and it was generally better than Dunsparce. Sunkern with Eviolite was okay until I got the Sun Stone. Giga Drain at 22 is super early and Sunflora Spcl Att stat is actually usable at 105. Petal Dance at 28 is really early too. Barely anything survived 2 hits from Petal Dance. Lilligant does it much better with access to Quiver Dance though.
  25. Carl

    Carl or Varl
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    posting to support volcarona for high tier. pretty much just treat it as a bug pokemon for most of the game instead of a fire type and you're golden.

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