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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

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  1. Stellar

    is a Live Chat Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Jan 3, 2007
    We aren't tiering Pokémon based on how they perform against others; we are tiering them based on how they perform against the trainers in the game. It is possible that one Pokemon completely outclasses another but both sweep every trainer in the game easily. In this case, both Pokemon would be high tier. This is what Super Jocke was trying to say earlier... Regardless, Golduck just doesn't have the super-effective coverage to tackle the game single-handedly.
  2. Antihaxxer


    Jun 26, 2012
    Surf / Psychic / Ice Beam / Waterfall seems good for a in game run ...

    The loss of Brick Break is a shame ... :(
  3. DEMo_Gorgon47


    Mar 27, 2011
    I feel as though Roggenrola/Boldore should be low tier, while Gigalith should be the upper part of Middle Tier or the Low part of Top Tier. Gigalith has surprising power and bulk, even against SE moves. and with good coverage in RockBlast+Earthqauke+Normal move and Sand Storm to bolster your SpD, you have a pretty good Pokemon on your hands. Boldore/Roggenrola are obviously low tier if unable to go to Gigalith because they lack the power
  4. Aleva


    Aug 29, 2010
    I believe there's an in game trade around Mistralton that gives you a Gigalith for an Emolga
  5. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

    Oct 12, 2012
    That's the Gigalith that DEMo_Gorgon47 is talking about. I hope he meant High tier, though. Top tier is...well...Rock is a neat type, and he comes right before the Gym he's good at. He's not really great for anything else, though. Drayden's Haxorus laughs at Sturdy and OHKOs, and Marlon doesn't give a damn about Sturdy and will KO anyway, even with his...questionable team. Colress has a team of Steel types, and Magnezone definitely has a Steel attack on his team. Other than that...he could contribute...nah, not really. Marshal eats him alive, and the low SpDef means that Shauntel and Caitlin destroy it as well. He can wall Liepard, at least? I honestly don't see it breaking Mid tier simply because it doesn't provide nearly enough support to set it apart from the other 'mons. But then again, the only Rock types you'll have access to are Terrakion and...Crustle...

    Terrakion basically jumps out at you and says "HEY IDIOT, I"M HERE, CATCH ME", so...I'd probably just wait for the Musketeer.
  6. Diatom

    Diatom An enigma
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 5, 2012
    Might as well post my thoughts on my team, which was Riolu, Magnemite, Zubat, Darumaka, Zorua, and Starmie

    Riolu: Mid tier[/B]
    Availability: Before the first gym, in Flocessy Ranch
    Stats: While it is good as a Riolu, the fact that you can get a Lucario so early makes its stats incredible for where you get it.
    Typing: While steel/fighting may seem great on paper, it's mediocre in practice. Ground is a horrible weakness to have in-game due to stuff like Sandile and Drilbur, and the fire weakness is almost as bad. The fighting weakness really isn't a problem, however, as there are few fighters in-game. Its steel STAB is almost completely unused, due to its being redundant with fighting.
    Movepool: This is where Riolu really fails. Force Palm may be nice, but aside from that, it gets about one useful level-up move until level 51 (Aura Sphere). Most of the good TMs come fairly late as well, so you will be stuck with weak moves until around the Mistralton Gym.
    Major Battles:
    Cheren: About the only thing you can do here is spam Counter and hope for the best.
    Roxie: You can't do anything to her pokes, and she will hit you hard in return.
    Burgh: Similar story to Roxie, although if you have a Lucario at this point, you can probably pull out a win due to resisting all of grass, bug (4x), and poison.
    Elesa: This is one battle where Lucario actually does OK, although the only way you can do a lot of damage to Emolga is with the unreliable Rock Tomb, and Zebstrika has flame charge to ruin your day. You can beat Flaaffy with little trouble, however.
    Clay: You can beat Krokorok, but Sandslash and Excadrill will destroy you.
    Skyla: If you have Rock Slide you beat Swanna and Swoobat, but Skarmory walls you all day.
    Drayden: All of his pokes have a way to hit you super effectively; don't bother.
    Marlon: You beat Carracosta easily and should beat Wailord as well, though Jellicent beats Lucario unless you have Shadow Ball (which wouldn't be a bad idea).
    Colress: Finally, a time when Lucario beats the majority of the team. Everything except Metang and Beheeyem should easily go down, and you can probably take down Metang as well.
    Ghetsis: If you are faster than Hydreigon, you can take it down, although the rest of his team is either too bulky or too hard-hitting for Lucario to take down. You should have Aura Sphere by now, though, so you should be able to take on any weakened pokes. If you have Psychic, you should also take down Toxicroak, and if you have Shadow Ball, you can beat Cofagrigus.
    Shauntal: You should be able to beat Cofagrigus here with Shadow Ball, and may take down Jellicent as well, although Golurk and Chandelure will both destroy you.
    Grimsley: You can beat everything except Krookodile, which will Earthquake you into oblivion. You should be faster than Scrafty, and you will have Aura Sphere here, so it should go down.
    Caitlin: You can actually beat Sigilyph with Shadow Ball, but stay away from the rest of the team.
    Marshal: You can do surprisingly well here due to Psychic, although Throh can probably take a hit, and Sawk has Sturdy. You can beat Mienshao and Conkeldurr if you are faster, however.
    Iris: You can beat Aggron and Lapras, and maybe Archeops, although don't try to take on any dragons; they all carry super-effective moves.

    Magnemite: Top tier
    Do I really need to write an analysis for this?

    Zubat : Top tier
    Availability: You get it before the third gym, in the Castelia Sewers
    Stats: When you get Zubat, its stats are nothing special, but they become great for their time when you evolve it into a Golbat. The fact that you will probably have a Crobat before the fourth gym makes its stats for that point of the game incredible.
    Typing: Poison/Flying is one of the best defensive typings in this game. You resist the common ground-, grass-, and bug-type moves, and have an additional 4x resistance to fighting. The only weaknesses of note are rock and psychic, but these are negligible when compared to all the positives of Crobat's typing.
    Movepool: Wing Attack when you first get Zubat is nice, and Bite provides decent coverage. Fly is great for when you get it, and can easily tide you over until you get Acrobatics, which just destroys everything that doesn't resist it. You don't have much else, but you don't really need anything else when you have Acrobatics.
    Major battles:
    Burgh: Stay away from Dwebble, but you easily beat the rest of his team. If you have a Golbat at this point, you may even be able to beat Dwebble, however.
    Elesa: Stay away. Crobat can be used as a last resort with Confuse Ray, I guess, but that's a last resort tactic.
    Clay: You can beat Sandslash, but Krokorok has Intimidate and Excadrill has that steel-typing.
    Skyla: You easily beat Swoobat and Swanna, but switch out of Skarmory.
    Drayden: Pretty much an even match-up. You both hit each other for neutral damage, but you have the harder-hitting attack, so you should win.
    Marlon: Even match-up again. See Drayden battle, only easier as Marlon can't hit as hard back.
    Colress: You should be able to OHKO Beheeyem, but stay away from all of his other pokes. If you can't OHKO Beheeyem, you will get OHKOd back.
    Ghetsis: You easily beat Toxicroak, and should beat Seismitoad, Drapion, and possibly Cofagrigus as well. Stay away from Hydreigon and Eelektross unless they are weakened, however.
    Shauntal: Cofagrigus can burn you, so watch out! Other than that, her team is frail enough that you probably one-shot all of her pokes except maybe Chandelure with Acrobatics.
    Grimsley: You beat Liepard and Scrafty, but switch out of Bisharp and Krookodile.
    Caitlin: Even though you have a type disadvantage, you may still be able to beat Gothitelle and Sigilyph due to their frailty, but you should definitely should not be battling Musharna and Reuniclus.
    Marshal: Everything but Sawk should easily go down here, although Throh may take more than one hit.
    Iris: The fact that mine outsped Iris's Haxorus even after a Dragon Dance makes this the ideal poke to use to beat Haxorus. Other than that, it's a pretty even match-up, with both sides hitting each other hard.

    Darumaka: High tier
    Availability: Before the third gym, on Route 4
    Stats: Great as a Darumaka thanks to Hustle, and even better as a Darmanitan. STAB Sheer Force Flare Blitz off 140 attack will hurt
    Typing: Pure fire is pretty good in-game, with all the bug- and grass-types running around. It doesn't help you with the multitude of ground-types, however.
    Movepool: Darumaka's movepool fits its stats perfectly. It starts with Fire Fang, and gets Fire Punch very soon. Thrash provides a ton of power later, and once you get Flare Blitz at level 33, it absolutely annihilates even some resists. Not to mention that it gets Dig and Rock Slide by ™.
    Major battles:
    Burgh: You sweep the entire gym except for Dwebble, which you should switch out of.
    Elesa: This is a pretty even match-up. No one can hit each other super effectively, but you have the higher power, so should win unless Hustle screws you over.
    Clay: You probably don't have Flare Blitz yet, so stay away. If you do have it, you can beat Sandslash, but Krokorok has Intimidate and Excadrill outspends.
    Skyla: You easily beat Skarmory and Swoobat, and should even be able to beat Swanna with Rock Slide if you have a Darmanitan (which you should by now).
    Drayden: Don't even try here; you will lose badly.
    Marlon: Stay away here as well, for obvious reasons. You may be able to beat Carracosta with Dig, but I wouldn't attempt it.
    Colress: You should be able to sweep his entire team here; everything is either weak to fire or frail.
    Ghetsis: Flare Blitz should be able to nuke all of his pokemon except Hydreigon, which you should leave to someone else. Due to the recoil, however, you will probably only take down two or three of his pokes.
    Shauntal: You beat Chandelure here with Rock Slide, Golurk should fall to Flare Blitz, and Cofagrigus can't really touch you. Stay away from Jellicent though.
    Grimsley: You easily beat Liepard and Bisharp, and may beat Scrafty as well. Stay away from Krookodile, however.
    Caitlin: You should be able to OHKO Gothitelle and Sigilyph, although Reuniclus and Musharna may give you trouble, as you can't OHKO them, and their attacks and recoil will wear you down fast.
    Marshal: Stay away from Throh and Sawk, as you can't OHKO either and they OHKO back, but you should be able to beat Mienshao and Conkeldurr.
    Iris: You can hit her flying types with Rock Slide, but you should stay away from everything else, as they either resist Flare Blitz or are insanely physically bulky. If you have Hammer Arm, you can beat Lapras and Aggron, but most of you probably deleted it by now.

    Zorua: High tier
    Availability: Right before the fifth gym, as a gift
    Stats: Zoroark's stats are usually nothing out of the ordinary, but the fact that this one is guaranteed a positive nature and 30 IVs in every stat makes this thing have very high stats. However, Zoroark's defenses are atrocious, so don't expect it to be taking many attacks.
    Typing: Dark typing is generally middle-of-the-road, but illusion completely throws this out of the window. Disguise this as something like Crobat and you will never be hit super effectively.
    Movepool: Not great, but serviceable. You will have to make do with Snarl for a while, which is underpowered, but Flamethrower comes eventually, and you should have Night Daze before Victory Road. It also gets Nasty Plot, which is a plus.
    Major battles:
    Clay: You beat Sandslash, but stay away from Krokorok and Excadrill, as you can't touch them.
    Skyla: You easily demolish Swoobat and have an even matchup with Swanna, but stay away from Skarmory.
    Drayden: With Illusion, he shouldn't use Revenge first turn, so you have a shot to beat something. Overall not a good matchup, as Snarl is underpowered by now, and none of his pokes are special attackers.
    Marlon: You should beat Carracosta due to its atrocious special defense and Jellicent is weak to Snarl, but stay away from Wailord.
    Colress: You beat Beheeyem due to the insane type advantage, but stay away from all of the steels.
    Ghetsis: Cofagrigus should go down, and Seismitoad and Eelektross can be beaten thanks to Snarl's side effect, but everything else is a bad matchup.
    Shauntal: You should be able to sweep her entire team.
    Grimsley: Liepard is so bad that you can beat it, and Flamethrower demolishes Bisharp, but watch out for Scratfy and Krookodile.
    Caitlin: Again, a clean sweep if Illusion is used properly.
    Marshal: You can actually beat Throh thanks to Illusion, but don't try to fight if your illusion is broken.
    Iris: Illusion screws with her Hydreigon, but this is a pretty even matchup in general; there are no major type advantages either way.

    Staryu: Top tier
    Availability: Between the sixth and seventh gyms, in Undella Town
    Stats: Mediocre as a Staryu, but the fact you can evolve it right away into a Starmie makes its stats above average for the entire game.
    Typing: Water/Psychic is a good typing in-game, as it hits a lot of stuff super effectively, and the only common type it is weak to is bug.
    Movepool: Starmie may just have the best movepool of any in-game pokemon. Surf and Psychic are available immediately, and Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are before the Pokemon League and provide good coverage.
    Major battles:
    Drayden: You don't have Ice Beam yet, but you can still hit him for heavy damage using Psychic. I don't believe that he can hit you super-effectively either, so it's a fairly even matchup.
    Marlon: Psychic should destroy his Carracosta and Wailord, but stay away from Jellicent.
    Colress: You beat Metang, Klinklang, and Beheeyem, but stay away from Mangeton/zone.
    Ghetsis: Seismitoad should easily go down, and I think you can get Ice Beam by now for Hydreigon, but stay away from all of his other pokes.
    Shauntal: Even though you have a type disadvantage, you still beat Golurk and Chandelure thanks to secondary types. Stay away from the others, however.
    Grimsley: Surprisingly, you beat the hardest member of his team, Krookodile, with Surf, but stay away from everything else.
    Caitlin: Sigilyph dies to Thunderbolt, but everything else on her team destroys Starmie with coverage moves.
    Marshal: Mienshao and Conkeldurr should fall to Psychic, but Throh and Sawk should survive (in Sawk's case due to Sturdy) and OHKO you back.
    Iris: Lol. You should be able to beat every member of her team, with the possible exception of Hydreigon, thanks to everything being hit super-effectively by one of your moves.
  7. Garud


    Mar 28, 2011
    Diatom, after reading your review of Staryu, I find it hard to place him in Top-tier. Remember, the top-tiers should be able to single-handedly take the game apart, with maybe one or two hiccups. And in this case it doesn't seem to be doing that. In addition, it comes way too late to be in the Top.

    I think Arcanine needs more love. Sure, you need to get Growlithe to level 45 for it's best move in Flare Blitz, but it's strong most of the way through the game and learns Outrage to boot. It gets close to perfect coverage with Return, Crunch, Outrage and Flare Blitz. Hell, it solo'd Drayden and only used 1 PP.
  8. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

    Oct 12, 2012
    I actually didn't wait for Outrage. It was painful to get to Crunch, which was the move I really wanted, and Dragon Pulse is just as good for in-game. Flamethrower is good enough for in-game.
  9. Aleva


    Aug 29, 2010
    I went all the way to Flare Blitz for my Growlithe (well it had a +Atk nature) and I found it great. Once you get the lucky egg, it takes only a few minutes to give him about 5 levels on Audinos, if you need it. I ended up with Crunch/Outrage/Flare Blitz/Dig and it was great.

    Like Garud, Arcanine soloed Drayden and only used 1 PP. With Crunch and Outrage, it also gets super effective hits on over half of Ghetsis, Iris and Corless' teams, and does great against Shauntal and Caitlin. Personally I feel that waiting all the way with Growlithe is the best route.
  10. IOS


    Mar 21, 2010
    Diatom, no mention of Swords Dance inyour Lucario writeup tells me that you weren't using him properly. It's like not using Quiver Dance with Lilligant.
  11. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    how is lucario stuck with weak moves

    considering that you should be sticking return on it anyway which is even stronger than earthquake

    and that's not mentioning how it can put its equally good special attack into decent use with dark pulse which he can smack ghosts and physically bulky enemies with

    and then you get free ice punch

    lucario is definitely not mid
  12. rocky505


    Dec 13, 2006
    There's also rock slide and dig for Lucario. Force Palm does just fine until you get aura sphere/ close combat.
  13. SimicCombine


    Jun 8, 2010
    With Starmie, Blizzard + Thunder with Wide Lens does a pretty good job of holding you over until you get Ice Beam/Thunderbolt.
  14. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

    Oct 12, 2012
    If you want a physical fire type, why aren't you using Darmanitan? Arcanine's strength is that it does well with both Physical and Special moves. 100 Base SpAtk is still pretty damn good, and Arc can...you know...get Dragon Pulse, which is just as good as Outrage for in-game purposes. And you're still getting Super Effective Hits with it. You make Outrage seem extremely good, but all it does is hit things hard, because Dragon is a terrible offensive type if you want Super Effective hits.
  15. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    Outrage is awesome for pure power and reliable accuracy (120 BP is very good and consider that it has 100 accuracy as well), and considering dragons it's really one of your best options regardless (Blizzard misshax can be fatal especially considering how strong Haxorus or Druddigon is)

    And Outrage regardless is still something Arcanine has over Darmanitan. SE isn't exactly important except in specific scenarios (you want to hit Drayden hard for example and get his stuff over with because Haxorus is definitely not something you want it to be alive for long with. the same goes for iris, because whatever outrage is SE on is not whom you want to let it be alive for long, between shit like sheer force life orb druddigon and four-elemental hydreigon)

    You can also consider evolving Growlithe early and get a midgame nuke, besides Outrage isn't exactly a must-have on Growlithe (and neither is Dragon Pulse, really since you can always fall back on -generic water type- with ice beam if it's really needed)

    either way, i don't think the one thing you should even be doing is to have arcanine outrage against iris since you're basically begging for Aggron or Lapras to come out and own you. of course, if you're playing shift mode this isn't a big issue...
  16. Layell

    Layell Alas poor Yorick!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Nov 5, 2006
    About time I got around to writing this one.

    Petilil – Top Tier
    Availability: Castelia City park via the sewers in White 2, in-game trade for a Cottonee north of Castelia in Black 2
    Stats: Fantastic special attack and speed, with its decent bulk Petilil can easily set up a sleep powder or even quiver dance.
    Typing: Grass is ass, no doubt about it. This is still a great Pokemon but it can by no means solo the game.
    Movepool: Petilil follows a great tradition in grass types at having awful coverage. But you have sleep powder for anything you know you can’t hit. Using Quiver Dance then Giga Drain followed by some Petal Dances will eliminate most of the Elite 4 and anyone else foolish enough to stand in your way. If your Petilil has Own Tempo (which in Black 2 it always has) you will destroy everything with the grass version of outrage.
    Major Battles: Petilil has problems against Burrgh and his bugs, and Elesa carries a good amount of flying and fire moves which will be a pain. Clay gets trounced by you. Skyla also can ruin you when she isn’t using her ducks. Drayden can be beaten with Quiver Dance easily, and Marlon kneels before you. The key with Petilil even against things that may hurt you is that you can easily sneak in a Quiver Dance or two then the game can almost go into autopilot while you Petal Dance.
    Additional Comments: The best grass mon in the game. The Black 2 ingame trade has a timid nature great IV’s as well with Own Tempo so Petal Dance never confuses you. With the extra exp as an ingame trade Petilil won’t mind if it’s benched for some gym battles while you other mons get a chance to level up. Get the Sun Stone from the Volcarona chamber. You will probably have to use the move relearner to get Quiver Dance which is learned by Liligant at 28 but it is worth it.

    During the holiday I'll see about running White 2 with anything still needing to be placed.
  17. Progeusz


    Nov 17, 2009
    No need to wait till Volcarona, you can get Sun Stone in Nimbasa City and easily evolve Petilil at lv 26 to get Quiver Dance as Lilligant two levels later. I'm not sure about White 2 but in Black 2 Petilil is THE BEST Pokemon. Better than Rash Genesect, Timid Magnezone or Modest Starmie. Honestly.
    Setting up with Sleep Powder is kinda risky as opposing mons often wake up next turn and you miss 25% of the time. Lilligant is fast enough to set up QD against 95% of the game (Timid, IVs, EVs). If you're against special attacker quite often not even super effective attacks will save him thanks to boost in SpDef. +1 Miracle Seed Petal Dance easily OHKOs resistors or special walls. She's unstoppable.
  18. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Sep 25, 2005
    Not to mention Outrage + Fire STAB hits everything in-game for neutral damage.
  19. Phazon00


    Aug 19, 2012
    I think Scraggy doesn't cut it in Top. After all, Darumaka, Drilbur and Magnemite are all phenominal. Scraggy just doesn't fit. Also, I propose that Heracross goes up to fill the spot, as its power and the extremely early addition of Close Combat makes it a Top-Tier powerhouse.
  20. SimicCombine


    Jun 8, 2010
    I'll second that. Heracross > Scraggy easily. Even with Bug Bite/Brick Break/Shadow Claw, it just wrecked stuff. There are also a much larger number of trainers which only use 1 Pokemon, which makes Moxie sweeps that much less likely.
  21. Roseguardin

    Roseguardin formerly skywardsword596

    Aug 2, 2012
    @Diatom: Drayden CAN hit Staryu/Starmie super effectively, as all three of his dragons know a dark-type move. Druddigon and Flygon have Crunch, and Haxorus has Assurance.
  22. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    that's really only a point of concern if somehow wide lens blizzard doesn't connect. besides haxorus has the tendency of dragon dancing on the first turn anyway, giving you a free turn to smack it

    scraggy is pretty good for top imo, eviolite scraggy is great at tanking, instant setup through work up, hjk and payback are excellent STABs and you can pass ice punch for extra coverage. even without moxie scraggy is still good, shed skin helps with random status effects and spare the need for a full restore.
  23. Alice in Strings

    Alice in Strings

    Oct 12, 2012
    Ahahahahanowhatareyoutalkingabout. First off, Scraggy is found in both games. Heracross happens to only be in one game, killing its run for Top Tier right then and there. Scrafty has far fewer weaknesses than Heracross (and can potentially survive a flying type attack), and HJK is just terribly powerful and gotten early on. Moxie is just destruction incarnate, and if its rarity is such an issue, people were arguing Azurill for Top earlier in the topic, despite half of them being utter trash (lolThickFat).

    What does Heracross really have? It gets Megahorn, Close Combat, Shadow Claw...that's pretty much it. Heracross can't sweep a team with Close Combat, while Scrafty can easily sweep teams with HJK. Scrafty also has great coverage in Ice Punch and Crunch. Shadow Claw is redundant with Bug STAB (you hit...ghost), so I really don't see why you're toting its use of Shadow Claw. Heracross also has a terrible ability for in-game (Guts), while Scrafty has two great abilities. My Magnezone was terrible in comparison to my Scrafty, even with Sturdy.

    tl;dr Scraggy is top tier material, why are we even discussing this anymore?

    EDIT: Also, name three trainers that uses only one Pokemon. Unlike in earlier generations, trainers are using MORE Pokemon, and the abundence of Rotation Battles means Moxie Sweeps are just that much more likely.
  24. Lucchini


    May 6, 2011
    Whoa whoa, hold your horses. A Pokemon's absence in one version is precisely that - complete absence in one version, not a point against it in the one version where it is available.

    Hi Jump Kick is strong indeed, but requires Wide Lens if you don't want to miss, whereas Heracross could hold whatever it wants and hit with perfect accuracy attacks for a while until it gets Megahorn where it might also want to make a choice between accuracy and power/whatever else. Scrafty's phys attack is also just 'good enough', nothing spectacular.

    I don't know why you're even sandbagging Heracross's movepool, because few Pokemon have ones as good as his. Close Combat at L34? Bug Bite by tutor, Night Slash by relearner, Dig, Rock Slide, Megahorn?

    Heracross doesn't need to evolve to be good, while Scraggy has to wait quite a bit and you catch it pretty far from there. Heracross's speed is also a significant boon, being sufficient to outspeed plenty of in-game trades and OHKO them. Scrafty can indeed take hits with his bulk, but it's best if you don't take hits at all.

    And how is Shed Skin better than Guts? Randomly being status'd powers Heracross up, while Shed Skin just cancels out the status. I'd prefer being powered up to nothing happening.

    Their availability is about the same, too. Personally, I think Scraggy should get out of top tier because a late evolution and 58 base speed evolved are serious shortcomings in my book.
  25. Mekkah

    is a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
    Super Moderator

    Feb 8, 2005
    What's with all the "outclassed by" silliness popping up again? Pokemon should be judged by their own merits, not compared to the obvious juggernaut they're bound to have sharing their typing. Just because Excadrill is ridiculous doesn't mean we dock points from Sandslash, and just because Darmanitan attacks physically with STAB Fire doesn't mean we suddenly need to put Special attacks on Arcanine.

    How good is the Pokemon at KOing enemies? Good? Bad? Middling? Put him in a tier accordingly. If you need to compare them to something, compare to some Pokemon already sitting in the tiers they're being argued for. Preferably not controversial ones...eg don't use some point on Azumarill you didn't agree with early just to turn around and use it to the advantage of some other Pokemon.
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