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Pokémon BW2 In-game Tier List Mark II [See Post #840]

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by SuperJOCKE, Oct 8, 2012.

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  1. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    Terrakion doesn't show up until you beat Marlon. Also it eats the remaining plasma grunts for breakfast so it's easy to train, and it's definitely helpful in the E4 too because SD is easy enough to setup and Terrakion has good enough coverage to sweep.
  2. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    I think Vulpix and Bronzor (or Ninetales and Bronzong, who are both catchable in the wild) are fine in Bottom because of their lateness and low catch level. I doubt any redeeming qualities they have are enough to make up for that.

    I'm not commenting on which tier Cobalion, Virizion, and Terrakion belong in until I read up about them more and see what other people think of them. The only thing I can say is that they arrive late, so clearly they would need to be really good during the time they are available (i.e. sweeping through many trainers easily and having strong match-ups against the last gyms/elite 4) to make it into High.
  3. Scorpio


    Oct 23, 2010
    Just a question, but is Frillish potentially available before the fifth Gym fight (like, is it possible to get Surf, get Frillish, and then fight the gym)?
  4. TheKAM1993


    Jan 5, 2013
    No, you need to beat Clay and beat the PWT Driftveil tournament in order for Cheren to give you surf.
  5. SuperJOCKE

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 4, 2010
    Ok, so there doesn't seem to be any objections here, so I'm going to add the 5 Pokémon to the OP now.

    As a reminder, these are the Pokémon and their tiers:

    Show Hide

    Vulpix to Bottom Tier

    Bronzor to Bottom Tier

    Cobalion to High Tier

    Virizion to High Tier

    Terrakion to High Tier

    The next Pokémon I want to bring up are these:

    Rattata for Mid or Low Tier

    Grimer for Low Tier

    Zebstrika for Mid Tier

    Foonguss for Low or Mid Tier

    Basculin for Mid or Low Tier

    Absol for Mid Tier

    Banette for Low or Mid Tier

    I know Zebstrika and Grimer have been posted about by one user each, but I feel posting an entirely new preliminary tier list is unneeded for just two Pokémon, so I'll just bring up these two along with these other 5 Pokémon for you guys to discuss about if you agree with the placements they brought up or not.

    And like last time, if you want justifications from me, let me know. I'll leave this up for a while, like last time.
  6. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    I actually would be interested in your reasons behind these proposed tier placements if you are willing to give them.


    I can maybe buy Zebstrika in Mid, if only because STAB Electric attacks are useful against 2 gyms and a significant number of regular route Pokemon (there's plenty of Water-types near Undella and Humilau, and there is also a significant number of Water- and Flying-types in Victory Road and a few other places). I just wish it had better stats and a slightly wider movepool (pre-elite 4, it might be something like STAB + Signal Beam and/or Bounce for Grass types + Flame Charge, which is mostly useless + Random Normal filler move - Overheat is post-game unfortunately).

    I don't really know much about the others. I think Low for Grimer is ok, if not Bottom. It definitely shouldn't be any higher than Low. I would also lean towards Low for Foongus and Mid for Rattata.
  7. Celever


    Sep 25, 2012
    I noticed that yamask/Cofagrigus do not have a placement yet. I used one in my last play of this game, but I am kinda torn whether to put him in low or mid.

    Cofagrigus: - Low/Mid
    Availability: He is available in the relic castle as a yamask, extremely common.
    Stats: Yamask does not have great stats, so you will be babying it for a while or just grinding excessively. Cofagrigus on the other hand does have good stats, he should be great, but for the things holding him back - mainly movepool. His speed is also a real let-down.
    Typing: Being the earliest ghost type is a treat for Cofagrigus, but you really should just wait for Litwick later on if you want a ghost type. This thing has large bulk and special attack, but learns about shadow ball and psychic to use the latter, and as for the former it never seems to be able to do damage if you try and make it a wall. You need to use curse to deal any kind of damage which halves your HP right there.
    Movepool: This is where things start getting really bad. Cofagrigus would probably be high no question if not for this thing's move pool. Seriously, it can burn effectively and try and wall in that respect, but requires a bunch of babying to evolve, and then even more for it to be able to do an damage. Your main way of doing damage before getting shadow ball is burning the opponent and then using hex, otherwise it is simply too weak. It is cofagrigus' worst factor by far.
    Major Battles: Yamask is not good against Elesa. Too slow, too frail. Yamask is also not good against Clay, however he can burn with will-O-wisp which was helpful with dealing with the guy's Excadrill. Against Skyla it should be evolved, but good luck having him find any worth in that battle either. I tried to burn and wall the Skarmory but that just failed.
    Drayden really does destroy this thing. He simply does not deal enough damage or wall effectively enough in this battle to have much worth at all.
    Additional Comments: You would think he is good on paper, but use him and be surprised.
  8. breh

    breh 強いだね

    Feb 6, 2010
    Yamask is definitely low; far from useless, but it has a particularly awful movepool and isn't overwhelmingly useful. It's slow and lacks power. Hex is pretty awful and, until you get shadow ball, that's the garbage that you're dealing with. Cofagrigus still suffers from the lack of punch and terrible movepool.
  9. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Yeah when I read that analysis of Yamask I get the impression that it's a Low tier Pokemon, so you should probably just go with that.
  10. Lucchini


    May 6, 2011
    Seems to me the late evolution is Yamask's biggest problem.
  11. TM13IceBeam


    Oct 22, 2010
    I'm kind of confused what is Absol doing in Mid tier, most of the time it's going to be SD+Night Slash+Super Luck abuse which is good but isn't going to win you favours with the remainder of the Plasma grunts. I guess it might be able to get away with X-scissor and Rock Smash (lulz), or one of the 120 elementals with a somewhat decent 75 SpA, but I'm not really convinced it's to the level of say Volcarona or even Swanna.

    Not seeing Banette considered for Mid either. The movepool is really bad (Dark/Ghost moves everywhere) and the only other things he gets are Thunderbolt(or Thunder/Charge Beam) and Psychic. This seems like a pretty clear low to me, especially when most of the Fighting-types you're facing after his capture are immune to Psychic anyway (Scraggy -.-)

    Basculin might make it to mid on account that Adaptability Surf/Waterfall has 190/160 BP and it's offensive stats aren't exactly horrid. Water isn't that bad of an offensive type, but Basculin's inability to murder things quickly enough combined with his fraility might be a big issue though.
  12. breh

    breh 強いだね

    Feb 6, 2010
    If you're willing to grind a bit for shards, you can tutor absol superpower. It is very deserving of mid given that it'll OHKO a good portion of what it hits with SD / Night Slash / Superpower / Psycho Cut. ffs, if you're trying to recommend Basculin of all things for mid (a mon that is considerably weaker in almost every aspect bar its STAB), Absol should go there as well.
  13. SuperJOCKE

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 4, 2010
    Aww damn, totally forgot about this. Sorry about that.

    Well, Rattata and Grimer are not my opinion really, more what I've seen in the thread so I have nothing to say about those two.

    Zebstrika just seems really solid. It comes right before Skyla, while it hits all of Marlon's Pokémon super effectively (Jellicent might be a tough nut though). Relatively good stats and moves too.

    Mid for Foonguss is mostly because of Amoonguss's good bulk, decent offenses etc. Faces difficulties against other Poison-types and Caitlin (and some other scattered stuff), you get the idea.

    Basculin has solid Speed and offensive stats, but its movepool is a little too shallow. Some bad matchups too.

    Absol. Powerful, beats two E4s easily (it should anyways), doesn't really need a lot of coverage outside of its STAB and Superpower if you wanna teach it that. Comes a bit late though.

    Banette. Don't really know what to say. Nothing in particular stands out.

    Remember though, these are just suggested placements. I bring them up for you to discuss.
  14. v1perz53


    May 28, 2013
    Sewaddle is still missing from the OP, so I figured I'd agree with consensus thus far and post my impressions.

    Sewaddle: Mid
    Availability: Available almost immediately on Route 20, one of the earliest mon to get if you want to drop your starter. Quite easy to encounter.
    Stats: Sewaddle as Leavanny has fairly balanced stats. A respectable 92 speed and a quite good 103 attack compliment its excellent physical movepool. Comparing to Snivy, who I dropped to try sewaddle, it has a higher attack stat but worse speed, and slightly worse defense. Not the best defenses, but it has actually been fairly resilient for me. Another advantage is you can typically fully evolve sewaddle by level 22 or so, making great use of Leavanny's high stats early on.
    Typing: Sewaddle's typing is a mixed bag. Bug/Grass has many significant weaknesses, including a 4x weakness to flying and fire. However, bug is a useful type both offensively and defensively (as long as used appropriately, and not sent in against fire or flying mon). The typing ends up being fine, as the things that Sewaddle's moves are not good against are the things you wouldn't want to use a bug/grass for anyway.
    Movepool: Movepool is where my Sewaddle really began to shine. 60 base power stab bug bite at 8, 55 bp stab razor leaf at 15 was incredible for coverage. Combined with a 90 bp return at 22 means you can hit every type except for steel with an 80 power move minimum at 22 with a third stage pokemon. And just as bug bite/razor leaf start to lose their luster, Leavanny gets leaf blade at 36 and xscissor at 39. As such, Sewaddle consistently has very powerful moves in any situation where you are using it. Swords dance by level up is just gravy, though steel types continue to pose a problem.
    Major Battles: Major battles can go one way or the other, and is another area besides typing where Sewaddle loses some points. My sewaddle destroyed cheren due to Bug Bite being so powerful early on (and eating annoying berries is always a nice plus when they heal for 30% of a mon's HP). Roxie and the complex were tough as expected but I personally didn't have issues because I was overleveled, but an appropreate sewaddle would struggle here. Burgh was actually fine, as a third stage pokemon by then was quite powerful, though it wasn't an optimal choice for this gym. Sewaddle is useless for Elesa because of a flying move on one and a fire move on another mon (4x weak in both cases), but my Leavanny actually survived both type attacks somehow. Clay is almost made for Sewaddle, though rock slide on excadrill can kill you. Skyla destroys Sewaddle at every turn. Drayden is fine, though not exactly optimal and Sewaddle fares quite well against Marlon.

    Sewaddle is fantastic for the elite four, being super effective against both dark and psychic as well as being relatively quick, and useful here or there in the other battles. Team plasma is hit or miss as dark types are easy to handle, but poison and steel are also common and stop Sewaddle in its tracks.
    Additional Comments: Honestly, I expected to have more issues using Sewaddle than I actually did given its seemingly debilitating weaknesses. However, it's moveset has quite good coverage and excellent power throughout almost all of the game, getting powerful moves very early. It's no heracross, but it is certainly a solid bug and grass type. Even in situations where it should have had trouble (Roxie, Elesa, parts of Plasma) I found that mine ended up being fine due to speed and good enough defense, but all that could have been luck. All in all, I think it's movepool, coverage and stats are high tier material, but its bad matchups for half the game and extensive weaknesses mean that it settles solidly into mid tier.
  15. SuperJOCKE

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 4, 2010
    Reservation Index

    About a week or so late, but here it is.

    With lack of activity in this thread I've decided that we move onto writing the entries for each Pokémon that will go on site later on, despite there being some Pokémon left untiered.


    How this works:

    This works similar to how things work in C&C. You make a post that says which Pokémon you want to write about. Then you follow the format I've posted, and write your entry describing the Pokémon. What you write should be concise, but still enough to cover each Pokémon's "pros and cons." Try to keep it between 2-5 sentences if possible.

    You can reserve up to 3 Pokémon at one time, and only until you've finished all 3 can you reserve more.

    This is format you'll be following:

    Name: Simple.
    Availability: When does this Pokémon become available? Is it easy or hard to encounter?
    Stats: Describe how a Pokémon's stats make it excel. Is it a fast and deadly sweeper or a strong tank that can take hits and deal heavy damage back?
    Typing: Discuss this Pokémon's typing. Is its STAB effecient or not, does it have any great resistances or glaring weaknesses?
    Movepool: Describe this Pokémon's movepool. Does it have many effective movepool options through level up? Is it over reliant on TMs to function? Does it have access to useful HMs to help you traverse the region?
    Major Battles: Describe how the Pokémon handles the major opponents throughout the game. Notable opponents and battles include the Gym Leaders, battles against various members of Team Plasma, the Elite Four, and the Champion.
    Additional Comments: Discuss any miscellaneous information not covered in other sections here. Factors such as experience growth, abilities, and other lesser characteristics can be discussed here.

    Again, try to keep it short. Around 2-5 sentences if possible.

    Note that if I find any flaws in your entries, for example, if you don't follow the format or the length of your writing is a bit too long, I will contact you and ask that you fix whatever it is. If you don't fix it within a certain period of time, I'll dismiss your entry entirely and let someone else write it instead. This can't be stressed enough.

    And don't worry, if you do a significant ammount of work and have done work in another area in combination with this, you could be rewarded with a Pre-Contributor badge [​IMG] or Contributor badge [​IMG] for your hard work and it will not go unnoticed by me or Jellicent.

    A tip: Go through the pages of this thread and look at what other users have said about the Pokémon you are writing about. That might give you more insight about it if you need it.


    Reservations will be kept in this post, and will be categorized like this:

    [Unreserved.] - This Pokémon is unreserved and you're free to write an entry for it.
    [Reserved.....] - This Pokémon is reserved by another member and is not open for reservation at the time being.
    [Done...........] - The entry for this Pokémon is written and ready for the final product.

    Available Pokémon (open)

    Top Tier:
    Braviary (Route 4 stationary) [White 2] - SuperJOCKE
    [Done...........] Darumaka - TM13IceBeam
    [Done...........] Drilbur - SuperJOCKE
    [Done...........] Heracross [Black 2] - RegiFlame150
    [Done...........] Magnemite - TM13IceBeam
    [Done...........] Minccino - Mulan15262

    High Tier:
    Axew - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Azurill - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Cobalion - SuperJOCKE
    [Done...........] Eevee - Espeon - KurashiDragon
    [Done...........] Eevee - Jolteon - KurashiDragon
    [Done...........] Elekid [White 2] - cant say
    [Done...........] Lillipup - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Litwick - Twins
    [Done...........] Oshawott - TM13IceBeam
    [Done...........] Petilil - atsync
    [Done...........] Pidove - Mulan15262
    [Done...........] Pinsir [White 2] - SuperJOCKE
    [Done...........] Riolu - RegiFlame150
    [Done...........] Roselia - KurashiDragon
    [Done...........] Sandile - KurashiDragon
    [Done...........] Scraggy - Punchshroom
    [Done...........] Sigilyph - atsync
    [Done...........] Staryu - illixo
    [Done...........] Tepig - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Terrakion - TM13IceBeam
    [Done...........] Virizion - SuperJOCKE
    [Done...........] Zorua - cant say

    Middle Tier:
    Aron - Lockes and Keys
    [Unreserved.] Baltoy
    [Done...........] Basculin - atsync
    [Unreserved.] Buizel
    [Unreserved.] Cottonee
    [Done...........] Cubchoo - atsync
    [Done...........] Deerling - TM13IceBeam
    [Reserved.....] Ducklett - SuperJOCKE
    [Done...........] Dwebble- atsync
    [Done...........] Eevee - Vaporeon - cant say
    [Unreserved.] Ferroseed
    [Unreserved.] Frillish
    [Done...........] Gligar - Its_A_Random
    [Unreserved.] Gothita [Black 2]
    [Done...........] Growlithe - Tyranitarphantom
    [Done...........] Joltik - RegiFlame150
    [Unreserved.] Karrablast (With trade)
    [Done...........] Klink - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Koffing - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Magby [Black 2] - atsync
    [Unreserved.] Mandibuzz (Route 4 stationary) [Black 2]
    [Unreserved.] Maractus
    [Done...........] Mareep - Tyranitarphantom
    [Reserved.....] Metang - SuperJOCKE
    [Unreserved.] Mienfoo
    [Unreserved.] Numel [White 2]
    [Done...........] Onix (With trade) - atsync
    [Unreserved.] Pansage
    [Unreserved.] Pansear
    [Reserved.....] Pawniard - SuperJOCKE
    [Unreserved.] Pelipper
    [Unreserved.] Piloswine
    [Done...........] Psyduck - SuperJOCKE
    [Unreserved.] Roggenrola (With trade)
    [Done...........] Sawk - TM13IceBeam
    [Done...........] Sewaddle - atsync
    [Done...........] Skarmory - Punchsroom
    [Done...........] Snivy - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Solosis [White 2] - KurashiDragon
    [Unreserved.] Spheal
    [Unreserved.] Tangela
    [Done...........] Timburr - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Trapinch - Tyranitarphantom
    [Done...........] Venipede - atsync
    [Done...........] Volcarona - TM13IceBeam
    [Done...........] Zangoose - atsync
    [Done...........] Zebstrika - atsync
    [Done...........] Zubat - Mulan15262

    Low Tier:
    Absol - Tyranitarphantom
    [Done...........] Audino - atsync
    [Unreserved.] Banette
    [Unreserved.] Bouffalant
    [Done...........] Buneary [Black 2] - Tyranitarphantom
    [Unreserved.] Clefairy
    [Done...........] Drifblim - atsync
    [Unreserved.] Druddigon
    [Unreserved.] Eevee - Flareon
    [Reserved.....] Elgyem - Celever
    [Done...........] Emolga - atsync
    [Unreserved.] Foongus
    [Done...........] Golurk - Its_A_Random
    [Unreserved.] Grimer
    [Done...........] Lapras - atsync
    [Unreserved.] Lunatone
    [Reserved.....] Nosepass - Celever
    [Unreserved.] Panpour
    [Done...........] Patrat - atsync
    [Done...........] Rattata - atsync
    [Unreserved.] Remoraid
    [Unreserved.] Roggenrola (No trade)
    [Unreserved.] Rufflet [White 2]
    [Done...........] Sandshrew - Tyranitarphantom
    [Unreserved.] Seel
    [Reserved.....] Seviper - celever
    [Unreserved.] Shelmet (With trade)
    [Done...........] Skorupi - Tyranitarphantom
    [Unreserved.] Sneasel
    [Done...........] Solrock - DHR-107
    [Unreserved.] Spoink
    [Unreserved.] Swablu
    [Done...........] Throh - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Trubbish - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Tynamo - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Woobat - atsync
    [Done...........] Yamask - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Zweilous - Darknesscrusher

    Bottom Tier:
    Alomomola - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Bronzor - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Castform - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Combee - TM13IceBeam
    [Done...........] Corsola - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Delibird - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Ditto - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Dunsparce - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Eevee - Umbreon - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Karrablast (No trade) - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Onix (No trade) - atsync
    [Done...........] Purrloin - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Shelmet (No trade) - Its_A_Random
    [Done...........] Shuckle - atsync
    [Done...........] Skitty [White 2] - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Sunkern - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Vanillish - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Vullaby [Black 2] - DHR-107
    [Done...........] Vulpix - DHR-107

    Keep this in mind when you propose a tier for trade-related Pokémon (such as Magby):

    If you don't agree with a Pokémon's placement, you are free to post about it and tell us why you think it should be moved. Nothing is set in stone yet.

    You might notice that there are still some Pokémon missing from these two lists. In the post below I explain why.

    Special encounters etc. that you need to keep in mind

    Zorua - Is given to you in Driftveil City.

    Minccino - Is only Top Tier because of Skill Link; so this only applies to the Minccino in the Hidden Grotto on Route 5.

    Mandibuzz - Route 4 stationary in Black 2. Can only be caught on Thursdays.

    Braviary - Route 4 stationary in White 2. Can only be caught on Mondays.

    Gigalith - Is traded to you on Route 7 for an Emolga.

    Petilil and Cottonee - Petilil can only be traded for a Cottonee in Black 2, while Cottonee can only be traded for a Petilil in White 2. This trade is located on Route 4.

    Volcarona - Staionary Pokémon in Relic Castle. Can only be reached through the Relic Passage after defeating Clay.

    Cobalion, Terrakion, and Virizion - These three are stationary Pokémon at three different Routes; Cobalion on Route 13, Terrakion on Route 22, and Virizion on Route 11.

    Seasonal Pokémon - Some Pokémon can only be caught in certain seasons, for example Cubchoo at Route 7 during the winter. Check when the Pokémon you're writing about is available, and if it isn't available all year round, then mention that.

    If you are new to this thread, I recommend you read the OP (original post) to get an understanding what this is about. All completed entries will also be compiled into the OP for easy access.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2014
  16. SuperJOCKE

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 4, 2010
    Now that I've moved the tier list into the "writing stage", I've nullified the preliminary tier list and added all Pokémon not already in the OP to their respective tiers.

    However, with this, there are some Pokémon that never got a real placement: the Pokémon in the temporary limbo tiers. These Pokémon got an equal number of "suggestions" for two different tiers, and were therefore put into these "limbo tiers".

    Now, what I want you guys to do, is to discuss where these Pokémon should be placed on the tier list. If they should be moved up to a tier or moved down.

    There, everything should now be set. If you have any questions, please let me know.

    Happy discussion!

    EDIT #1:

    Moved Braviary to Top Tier.

    Moved Mienfoo to Middle Tier.

    Moved Sunkern to Bottom Tier.

    EDIT #2:

    Moved Axew to High Tier.

    Moved Eevee - Vaporeon to High Tier.

    EDIT #3:

    Moved Drifblim to Low Tier.

    Moved Venipede to Middle Tier.

    EDIT #4:

    Moved Gothita to Middle Tier.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
  17. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    I don't know enough about the limbo Pokémon to give a tier for them, but I'll just say that I believe that it is safer to put Pokémon that are on the borderline in the lower of the 2 tiers being considered. If lots of time passes and you still don't have definitive placements for them, you could just run with that idea.

    Since I used them, I'll reserve Onix (with trade), Sewaddle, and Zangoose. I'll try get them done ASAP.
  18. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Orange Islands

    Dec 26, 2008
    I'll snap up

    Azurill and Tepig and I'll look over Sunkern again... I would def agree Low or Bottom, and I think I was the biggest supported of Low!
  19. Aerophoenix


    Apr 17, 2009
    I have used two of these so I can give support:

    Braviary for Top. I've used Braviary on two playthroughs and it's invaluable. You get it at a relatively high level, and can get it before Burgh's gym (he was my all-star for it on Challenge Mode). It's movepool is just enough to keep it relevant; you can give it Return soon, and between Aerial Ace and Tailwind for sweeping and coverage (as well as Superpower before the E4 and Shadow Claw from TM) this has at least decent matchups against all of the rest of the gyms bar Elesa. You might find yourself hard pressed to find something it's supereffective against but its sheer power tends to make up for it. What might normally hold it back is only finding it one day per week but due to how easy ti si to manipulate that on a DS/3DS it seems a moot point. It's also notable that he has good matchups against two of the elite four, and decent against Grimsley and Iris too due to Superpower.

    Mienfoo for Middle. I loved this guy, and after I got him he was so amazing. But that's the issue: after I got him. He comes fairly late, and works fine (but not amazingly) for the 10-15 levels until he evolves. After eovlution it has a powerful movepool with good variety that does well against the rest of the game. It's how late you get him and how decent (but not exceptional) he is before evolving that hold him back from High tier.
  20. Tyranitarphantom


    Aug 6, 2008
    I wanted to write Sewaddle and Azurill too, but oh well. I'll take the rest of my team from my first W2 run, Sandshrew, Drifblim, and Absol. I'll do Growlithe after these if nobody else has.

    I'm of the opinion that both Drifblim and Absol deserve Low tier, by the way. Absol is great if you teach it Superpower, but for 10 Blue Shards, you should probably teach Superpower to something better.

    Absol (open)
    Name: Absol
    Availability: Late. Caught on Route 13/14, just after completing Reversal Mountain
    Stats: Decent. It's defenses are bad, and it's speed is only average. However, it's base 130 Attack is amazing.
    Typing: Dark is a mediocre typing, both offensively and defensively. Any Ghost- or Psychic-type will fall before it, but those types are uncommon. Thankfully, it's weaknesses aren't too common either.
    Movepool: Decent. It comes knowing Swords Dance, and soon learns Night Slash, a reliable STAB that becomes even better if you have the Super Luck ability. Learns Psycho Cut and X-scissor for coverage, and if you can spare the Shards, it can be tutored Superpower in Lentimas Town. It also learns Fire Blast, but it's SpA isn't really high enough to viably use it.
    Major Battles: It's only really good against Shauntal and Caitlyn, whom it can defeat single-handedly, and it also defeats Marlon's Jellicent with ease. However, with Superpower, it becomes quite useful versus Colress, Ghetsis, Grimsley, and Iris. Keep it away from Drayden and Marshal, though.
    Additional Comments: Absol is not a very good Pokemon unless you can teach it Superpower, at which point it becomes a very poweful asset to your team. If you're not going to teach it Superpower, you should probably use some other Pokemon.
  21. Darknesscrusher


    Jan 28, 2013
    Name: Zweilous
    Availability: Late, just before the Elite 4 and it's rare aswell, to add onto it. Usually when you get it you have formed your team already and you don't want to train it all the way up again. It also need a whole lot of exp to level up, which is it's main flaw.
    Stats: Zweilous is a Physical Pokémon with nice defensive capabilities, especially with an Eviolite. It's quite slow though, and it will be outsped by the majority of the remaining trainers.
    Typing: Being Dragon typed gives Zweilous a great STAB to use as almost nothing resists it. Dark STAB isn't as useful due to moveset issues. On the defensive side, Dark/Dragon is good aswell, getting only hit for Super Effective damage by Figthing, Dragon, Ice and Bug moves.
    Movepool: A pseudo usually commes with a great moveset, and Zweilous is no different. Unfortunatly, most of it's movepool come from either tutors or TMs, so your options are pretty limited if you are just using leveling up moves. Your Dark STAB is most likely Crunch, which is quite a good move. Your Dragon STAB is limitted to Dragon Rush, which hits hard, but has poor accuracy. This is even worse with Hustle, of course. HM aren't that useful on Zweilous as you get it when you don't need the HMs anymore, and you most likely will have most of them already.
    Major Battles: Zweilous commes very late and the only thing you have to beat is the Elite Four and Iris. Zweilous smokes Caitlin and Chauntal, but it will have a little more trouble against the others. Iris beats you with her faster Dragons and Marshall hits you with Super Effective Figthing type moves.
    Additional Comments: Hustle is nice for an ability, but due to your main Dragon STAB only having 75 accuracy, it can be a pain aswell. Hydreigon is not worth getting, it just needs far too much grinding to get. It takes hours to get Zweilous up to level 64, which is when it evolves.

    Just say when it doesn't meet the standards, then I'll edit.
  22. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Ok so I just noticed that Magby (with trade) is untiered. Since we have Magby (no trade) in Mid, I'd like to propose that we just combine both entries into one and place them both in Mid. Magby is alright since it's caught early and learns powerful moves, but I think it's let down by its late evolutions. It probably won't be Magmar until around Driftveil, and Magmortar isn't obtainable until very late in the game.


    Here are my entries, which are variations of what I wrote months ago when I was only proposing tiers for them. I can try to cut them down if they're too long.

    Name: Sewaddle
    Availability: Early. Sewaddle is found on Route 20, before the first gym.
    Stats: Solid overall. It has high Attack, with enough Speed and bulk to get by.
    Typing: Grass/Bug provides some useful coverage but it's also resisted by 4 types. It's also a lousy defensive type, so Sewaddle will need plenty of support to get through certain routes.
    Movepool: Bug Bite at level 8 gives it a good STAB early on, and X-Scissor and Leaf Blade give it power late game. Unfortunately, its movepool outside of its STABs is poor and provides mostly unhelpful coverage. Swords Dance is available for sweeping.
    Major Battles: Sewaddle's best match-ups are against Clay, Marlon, Burgh, Caitin and Grimsley. It can contribute against all of these but must be wary of its weaknesses (e.g. Aerial Ace from Grimsley, Air Slash from Caitlin). Sewaddle does well against Team Plasma's Dark-types but tends to struggle a bit against their Poison-types.
    Additional Comments: Swadloon evolves into Leavanny with high happiness. Although this means that you can't predict when it will evolve, it should evolve fairly early, and potentially having a Pokémon with 103 Attack before the third gym is very useful.

    Name: Onix (with trade)
    Availability: Obtained in the Relic Path, before the 3rd gym. It's a bit rare but is more common in shaking spots.
    Stats: Onix has massive Defense and decent Speed, but its other stats are horrible. When it evolves, its Attack, HP, and Special Defense improve significantly, in exchange for Speed.
    Typing: Rock/Ground has six weaknesses, including 4x weaknesses to Water and Grass, but its Normal and Fire resistances and its Electric immunity are quite useful. It becomes Steel/Ground after evolving, gaining a ton of resistances in exchange for its Fire resistance.
    Movepool: Wide. Onix's access to STAB Dig helps make up for its low Attack early on. It also gets Strength and STAB Rock attacks, providing it with good coverage. Steelix has wide coverage between its STABs Crunch, Double-Edge and the elemental fangs.
    Major Battles: Onix is the best counter to Elesa, but does less well against Burgh and Clay. Steelix can beat most of Skyla's and Drayden's teams, but hates Swanna and Flygon. Aside from Marshall, it can contribute against the Elite 4, and if it has Sturdy, it can also be a great counter to Iris’s Haxorus.
    Additional Comments: You have the option of evolving Onix right away (Magnemite can hold Metal Coat) or waiting until Chargestone Cave. If you choose to wait, give Onix Eviolite to boost its defences. Rock Head is good for Double-Edge but Sturdy is more useful otherwise.

    Name: Zangoose
    Availability: Mid-late. It's found on Route 7 but has a low encounter rate.
    Stats: Zangoose’s high Attack and good Speed ideal for an efficient playthrough; however, it has awful 73/60/60 defenses.
    Typing: Normal has wide neutral coverage which makes it ideal for regular routes but lacks super-effective coverage, which is problematic for such a frail Pokemon. Normal’s lack of resistances makes its poor defences even more apparent too.
    Movepool: Very Wide. Zangoose has Return and Fustration for easily accessible STAB, and Close Combat and Shadow Claw cover all the types that resist Normal. X-Scissor, Rock Slide, Aerial Ace and the elemental punches are viable alternatives for coverage. Zangoose can use Swords Dance but is generally too frail to rely on it.
    Major Battles: Zangoose is very effective at sweeping through Team Plasma grunts using its STAB. Its performance against other trainers depends on its moveset, but against stronger Pokémon it'll often fall short of a OHKO and get OHKOed back. ThunderPunch is good for Skyla and Marlon; Ice Punch deals with Drayden; Shauntal and Caitlin are weak to Shadow Claw; and Grimsley can be dealt with using Close Combat. Ice Punch and Close Combat cover all of Iris's Pokémon but Zangoose is too frail to beat her entire team.
  23. SuperJOCKE

    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 4, 2010
    Just wanted to point out that this is exactly how I want these entries to look like. Short and to the point. While you other guys did a good job, I want even less fluff than your average analysis or article. So, it would be nice if could cut your entries down a little bit. Just a little. I can do it for you if want as well, but I think it's better you do it. Also, I will look through your entries before adding them to the OP, like GP checking them etc. (forgot to mention that).

    I can't give you Drifblim yet, so you'll get Growlithe instead. I'll make sure you get Drifblim when that time comes.

    EDIT: I've added Absol to the OP now. If you want to see how things will look, then check that out. Also, if you compare the one in the OP and the original Tyranitarphantom did, you'll see about how much I'll fix when it comes to GP.
  24. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Orange Islands

    Dec 26, 2008
    Okay going off the Basis of Absol's because you said that was good.

    Name: Azurill
    Availability: Early. Flocessy Ranch, at Level 5 (20% Chance) [Alternatively, as Marill at Lv25 on Route 6 after 4 badges]
    Stats: Only really lacking in speed, but Azumarill is both bulky and packs a real punch when using Huge Power. This is essentially 150 Base Attack...
    Typing: Water is a great typing both offensively and defensively. Water STAB in general is a huge asset and there are no principle Grass/Electric trainers to worry about.
    Movepool: Azurill gets access to Frustration as soon as it is obtained and then Return immediately after the first gym. This goes well with its normal typing and Friendship Evolution. After that, Azumarill gets Aqua Tail at Level 21 and then access to Waterfall/Strength and then Ice Punch (using the Red Shards) and Super Power. It also learns Surf.
    Major Battles: It has uses against most of the gyms, just through sheer strength. Clay should prove no obstacle, and you can even smash through Drayden's Dragons. Against the Elite 4 it is a similar story, just abusing sheer strength. With Ice Punch you can take on Iris in a similar fashion, taking hits and firing back with SE moves.
    Additional Comments: Only use Huge Power. The other abilities will not help you anywhere near as much. All you need is to abuse that wonderful Attack.

    Should be able to do Tepig later.
  25. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    I edited my entries. Hopefully they're better now.
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