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Pokemon RBY In-game Tiers - Mark II

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Mekkah, Jul 21, 2012.

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  1. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Uhgg... I've never liked Hypno. It just wasn't bulky enough to just ignore incoming attacks like Nidoqueen (who is still faster even!) or Snorlax, and it gets outsped by way too much stuff. I don't want to be healing it every 2 battles when trying to mill through rockets. Status is annoying too. I feel like if you're going to be "top"/"high" you should have some speed, or at least a way to easily get rid of/prevent status (Nidoqueen is immune to Poison/T-Wave, and is still faster; Snorlax's Rest + Pokeflute lols off everything the opponent could do).

    It's not a bad poke, if only for 115 special, and the easiest to obtain STAB psychic... but high? I dunno about that...
  2. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I had a go at Dratini. Although its tier placement should be pretty obvious, it was a lot harder to write up than I though it would be (mainly the availability section just because I was trying to be as thorough as possible).

    Note: Match-ups is difficult to write for this thing because it ultimately depends on what moves you taught it (Dragonair can’t really win using its stats alone), and against the Elite 4 it depends on whether it has fully evolved or not. I tried my best but I apologise if it sounds a bit all over the place.

    Also, can someone confirm my listings for the price and level of Dratini bought from Celadon? I'm sure Red's are correct based on memory but I had to rely on the internet for Blue's because I don't own Blue.

    [​IMG]

    -Dratini - Low Tier
    -Availability: In RB, you can theoretically get it as soon as you get to Celadon by buying it from the Game Corner. It is cheaper in Red but is at a lower level and therefore requires more grinding (level 18 for 2800 coins in Red and level 24 for 4600 coins in Blue). So either you’ll have to fork over a bit of money but spend time grinding, or you’ll get it at a more manageable level but have to spend up bigger. Neither is particularly desirable in an efficient playthrough. Another more minor issue is the fact that you can only buy 50 coins at a time, which slows things down compared to later generations. Alternatively, you can catch it in the Safari Zone with a Super Rod at level 15. This is probably a bit more practical and cheaper, but you are at the mercy of the Safari Zone mechanics and the level is a lot worse especially at that point in the game. In Yellow, it can only be obtained from the Safari Zone, and it is a bit rarer. It comes at the same level. Note that it is possible to catch Dragonair as well, but since you’ll likely have to go past level 30 for Dragonair to match your team, this isn’t really much of an advantage.
    -Stats: Dragonite has excellent stats, but Dratini and Dragonair don’t. It will struggle compared to the rest of your team until it evolves, by which time most of the game will be done anyway.
    -Movepool: Dratini’s level up movepool is not that good. Hyper Beam comes way too late. Slam has decent power but is inaccurate, though Thunder Wave has some utility until stronger moves come along. Dratini can also use the Agility/Thunder Wave + Wrap combo to get around troublesome opponents, but this is slow and not very reliable. On the plus side, Dratini has great TM/HM compatibility. Pick from Surf, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Fire Blast, Thunderbolt or Body Slam. Obviously this comes with opportunity costs (except Surf) but chances are that you will have at least a few of these free so it isn’t so bad.
    -Power: Well, Dragonite has power, but Dratini and Dragonair don’t. Dragonair will not be sweeping through enemies on its own. Dragonite potentially can, but as I said most of the trainers will be defeated once you get it so it hardly matters.
    -Type: It doesn’t learn any STAB moves sadly (not even Fly). From a defensive point of view, pure Dragon is nice. A strong set of resistances is backed up a general lack of Ice moves throughout the game. It is also unique to Dragonair. However, Dragon doesn't resist everything and Dragonair will end up relying on stats alone in these instances.
    -Match-ups: Lt. Surge: In the unlikely scenario that you have Dratini at this point, it should go ok in RB, but in Yellow Raichu will win using Mega Punch and Mega Kick.
    Erika: Grass resistance, but you need Ice Beam to really be helpful at all. If you do then it should go ok though it won’t absolutely dominate the gym.
    Koga: Neutral, in terms of type advantages. Koga sucks in RB so pretty much anything can work here (Dragonair is no exception but a full solo might be a bit much). Venonat is weak so Yellow is probably the same deal (if you have Fire Blast at this point then you do even better).
    Sabrina: Alakazam will be too strong to handle. It probably doesn’t do well in the gym overall, though Thunderbolt can help against the Slowbro and Slowpoke used by the gym trainers.
    Blaine: This gym is one of your best match-ups. Surf is probably the best move to teach Dragonair simply due to it being a HM rather than a TM, and Surf + Fire resistance gives it a good showing here.
    Giovanni: Chances are you’ll have at least one move that hits Ground super-effective (Surf most likely), so you do alright here too.
    Lorelei: Ice attacks are being thrown out a lot here so don’t bother.
    Bruno: Onix dies to Surf. Dragonite should be strong enough to kill everything else but Dragonair isn’t.
    Agatha: Golbat is weak to Thunderbolt and Ice Beam/Blizzard, but if it outspeeds and confuses you then you may lose anyway. Arbok shouldn’t be too much of an issue but Gengar can still win if you are unlucky.
    Lance: Depends on your moves it has. Thunderbolt hits Gyarados, Ice Beam/Blizzard hits the dragons and Aerodactyl is weak to both. In Yellow you need to watch out for an ice attack from Lance’s Dragonair and Dragonite.
    Blue: In theory, you can hit pretty much everything super-effectively but again it depends on what you gave it.
    Additional comments: Dragonite is awesome, but because it evolves so late it may as well not exist before the Elite 4 (and even then you may not have it yet). Instead, what you are essentially getting is Dragonair, who has below average stats. Combine this with how tedious it can be to obtain in the first place and you have a pokemon that is clearly at home in Low tier.
  3. Dre89

    Dre89

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    The problem is, as someone pointed out on the last page, is that the game is incredibly easy no matter which pokemon you use due to level grinding.

    A nuzlocke tier list would be more interesting in my opinion. Specifically one with a pokecentre limit, because I don't see how nuzlockes pose any challenge without a pokecentre limit.
  4. Lucchini

    Lucchini

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    The idea behind the tier list is that the game is played efficiently, it's not supposed to help people who struggle with the game (in 2012?) to succeed by recommending whom to use (and I'm sure there are poor ways to use, say, Nidoran M).

    Also, when speaking of Dratini, I think Agility/Thunder Wave + Wrap could be mentioned. It takes forever to beat an enemy that way and it is 15% likely to miss each time, but it's there and gives Dratini and its evolutions a chance to take on the likes of Alakazam.
  5. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    I dunno. Wrap-trapping would make sense if you were trying to solo the game with just Dratini, but what will most likely be the case is that Dragonair will be a member of a team. In that case, the chances are that if you are trying to get through the game quickly then you'll have a team mate that would do be able to kill things like Alakazam more quickly than Wrap-trapping anyway. Why not just use that instead of waiting around for Wrap to finally finish the opponent off? Also, yeah the accuracy is an issue. It would be very annoying if you did 90% to an opponent, only for Wrap to miss at the end and for Dragonair to die. Not only did you lose a lot of time using Wrap, but you didn't even kill the target!

    I don't have an issue putting it in if that's what everyone thinks is best but I'd like more opinions on it first.
  6. Garud

    Garud

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    I think its worth a brief mention, but it shouldn't affect his tier rank (Dratini is low). Make sure to emphasize that it's inefficient and unreliable.
  7. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Ok I've added a sentence on it in Movepool. Can't hurt to have it there I guess and I can just take it out if it ends up bothering other people.
  8. Lucchini

    Lucchini

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    That's one thing but we can't be sure the rest of your team will be able to handle the likes of Kadabra and Kazam. Your team just might consist of Machamp, Nidoking and Dragonair, for instance, and only one of them will dare to take Sabrina on.

    I think you do have manual control over Wrap though, you're not forced to keep using it when it's likely to lead to your failure. Wrap, Wrap, Dragon Rage is serious damage, and has only a 27% chance to fail (with either of the Wraps missing). Since facing Sabrina's Psychics is generally a gamble (special falls and crits all over the place, and they run Reflect/Barrier and Recover to outstall you even), a 72% chance of success is high indeed (assuming you can paralyse with T-wave and stay alive). 61% chance of three series of Wrap connecting, but you probably won't need that many.
  9. Garud

    Garud

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    I don't think anyone was doing Rhyhorn (and it was still listed as undone) so I've done it.

    [​IMG]

    Rhyhorn - Low Tier
    Availability: Mid-game at the earliest. It is uncommonly found at levels 25-26 in the Safari Zone, and it is found in 2 of the 3 areas. There is a 15% chance of encountering one, so it is likely you will find a Rhyhorn somewhere. Their catch rate isn't too bad either, it can take a few attempts to get one. The only other place you can get one is in Cerulean Cave in Pokemon Yellow Version, but that's much later than practical.
    Stats: Massive Attack and Defense make Rhyhorn/Rhydon an absolute powerhouse, and with a great HP stat it makes it a very strong pokemon. Unfortunately, it's low speed really hinders it and it's low special means that it should stay away from special moves.
    Movepool: Rhyhorn has incredible TM capability, the kind most special sweepers would dream of, despite having a terrible special stat. As for level-up, Rhyhorn gets very little moves of any worth, and actually relies on TMs to give it STAB moves.
    Power: Pure power best describes Rhydon, anything it hits, it KO's. It doesn't score many critical hits, but the raw damage output is always significant.
    Type: Rock and Ground type are both great offensively, but defensively it's so-so. Immunity to Electric and resistance to Fire and Normal is great, but weakness to Grass (x4), Water (x4), Fighting (x2) and Ice (x2) is less than desirable.
    Match-ups:
    Erika: If you have Rhyhorn at this point (unlikely) then this is the last place to use it. Everything in this gym is faster and can cripple you with status or OHKO with STAB 4x Grass moves against your miserable Special stat. Leave Rhyhorn at home.
    Koga: Rhyhorn wrecks if you gave it Dig or Earthquake, but if you didn't, it's very likely you will have normal-type moves. Rhyhorn still does ok in that case though, but watch out for poison.
    Sabrina: Sabrina wrecks you here. Her pokemon are fast, high-powered and hit you in your pathetic Special stat. Even without weaknesses this is a bad match-up, although if you can survive a hit you can beat Kadabra as it's frail. But that's still a big IF.
    Blaine: You come in with type advantage, but you won't like fighting here. Everything is faster than Rhyhorn, and even though he resists Fire, his special stat is atrocious. In addition, if Rhyhorn is burned, it will be pretty much useless. That being said, Rhydon should be able to take out Growlithe. The biggest threats come from Ponyta and Rapidash, who will both be faster than you and will trap you with Fire Spin. If you can move successfully however, you should take them out in 1 shot. Arcanine is a much bigger deal as you will be weakened by the time he arrives, and even though you resist Fire Blast, it can still KO you (or burn and cripple your attack stat).
    Giovanni: This match-up very much depends on whether you taught Rhydon Earthquake/Dig, and only fight with Rhydon if he's level 51 to outspeed Giovanni's Rhydon, otherwise you risk Fissure. In this battle, Rhyhorn only knows crappy normal moves, Nidoking/Queen only have normal and poison moves and Rhydon can only hurt you with a lucky Fissure/Horn Drill. All of these Pokemon are hit supereffectively by Ground moves as well, but watch out for Dugtrio, because you won't like a STAB Dig (but is countered by your own Dig funnily enough).
    Lorelei: Avoid avoid avoid. Lorlei can hit you with 4x Water moves and 2x Ice moves, and most of her Pokemon will be significantly faster than you. However, if you MUST fight her with Rhydon, make sure he knows Rock Slide to hit them back for 2x damage.
    Bruno: Odd, but he actually does OK here. Both Onix are no trouble at all, and he can probably take down one Fighting-type Pokemon due to his high defense. However, Rhydon get's worn down very easily here, and won't solo unless he is extremely over-levelled.
    Agatha: The sheer speed of her Pokemon plus Confusion/Sleep hax that her pokemon carry don't guarantee a quick or efficient sweep. If you can avoid these though (unlikely), then it's a clean sweep for Rhydon, as the best move each of them carry is essentially Night Shade.
    Lance: If Rhydon ever picked a single moment to shine, it's here. Aside from Gyarados, Rhydon picks apart this team like it's no big deal. The only moves that any of them use are normal-type, and with Rhydon's massive defense and type resistance, it will be able to shake off the damage. It's worth noting though, Aerodactyl is still dangerous with Supersonic and immunity to Ground-type moves. In Yellow, Rhydon has a tougher time as his Dragonair has Ice Beam and Bubblebeam, while Dragonite now has Blizzard, but on the flip side, Aerodactyl no longer has supersonic, and the other Dragonair carries Thunderbolt (which you are immune to).
    Rival: It doesn't matter what your Rival will be using here, he's going to have a different way of ending Rhydon in almost all circumstances. Charizard is the best starter to come up against due to it's weakness to Rock, but your terrible special means you will be eating Fire Blasts. Your Rhydon should be able to beat Pidgeot though, as it's frail. Exeggutor can be annoying with Hypnosis, but he only knows normal moves so he's no threat. Arcanine is easily beat, as Ember is piss-poor and his other moves just aren't up to scratch. The key Pokemon for Rhydon to completely avoid here is Blastoise, Venasaur, Alakazam and Gyarados who can all outspeed and OHKO.
    Additional Notes: Rhydon would be awesome if it actually learned a single STAB move by level-up. And while it is able to beat regular trainers, it's useless in almost all of the important battles. It's unlikely that you saved Dig for Rhydon, and I would be hesitant to teach it Rock Slide and/or Earthquake. But, if you HAVE to use Rhydon, you need to give it these moves, it depends on them. Rhydon's TM movepool is amazing when it comes to special attacks, but unlike the Nidos, he doesn't have the stats to use them. In fact, Rhydon is a great special attacker in the same way Alakazam is a great physical wall. Rhydon does have a couple of interesting uses outside of battle, as it is able to use both Surf and Strength, so it's not a terrible HM slave. Overall, stick with Golem, Sandslash, Dugtrio, Nidoking or Nidoqueen, Rhyhorn is completely outclassed.


    What do you guys think? Anything I need to add?
  10. Dre89

    Dre89

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    I don't think you can chose to do another attack whenever you want if you wrap, but you can switch out at any point, at which point you get a free switch.

    Also, concerning rhyhorn, the fact he doesn't learn any stabs by level up isn't too much of a problem seeing as he definitely justifies the TMs he gets. Earthquake will cream anything that doesn't resist it or have an immunity to it.
  11. Garud

    Garud

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    Also, I know we don't want to do reservations, but I want to reserve Hitmonlee (I'm probably going to do it soon) if that's ok?


    Edit: Ok, I've decided on a full playthrough using the following pokemon:

    Bulbasaur
    Hitmonlee
    Voltorb
    Horsea
    Ponyta
    Cubone

    If we've crossed over on one of these pokemon, feel free to review them, but hopefully I will be done very quickly.
  12. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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    Rhyhorn's analysis is pretty good. I have never used it myself so it is difficult for me to say the information is good regarding match-ups, but I do have comments:

    Keep in mind that in Yellow, one of his Dragonair has Ice Beam and Bubblebeam, and his Dragonite has Blizzard, making this battle less of a free ride. On the other hand, Aerodactyl doesn't have Supersonic in Yellow so Rhydon just walls the hell out of it. I think this stuff should be included because its match-up is a bit worse in Yellow than in RB (he is only beating the Thunderbolt Dragonair and Aerodactyl in Yellow).

    Again, I've never used Rhyhorn/Rhydon before, but is it really that bad? Pretty much all the trainers here (who are technically optional but let's just assume that you'll fight them) use weak unevolved pokemon like Growlithe and no way is Rhydon losing to them, Special and burn chance be damned. Blaine even uses Growlithe and Ponyta in RB. The 2 Ninetales used by gym trainers will probably be using this moveset: Ember/Tail Whip/Quick Attack/Roar, so they're hardly a threat (though Blaine's Ninetales in Yellow has Flamethrower I think). Rapidash is perhaps more threatening with potential Fire Spin trapping (assuming it chooses to spam it), and I guess Arcanine's Fire Blast is going to hurt a bit, but I don't think Rhydon is doing particularly badly here.
  13. dinosaurdan

    dinosaurdan

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    playing through with these:

    Poliwag
    Seel
    Nidoran-F
    Meowth
    Magnemite
    Farfetch 'D (HM slave)

    Ill try to finish most of the game by Saturday.
    I'm not familiar how to beat Koga before Erika, could someone tell me how to do this?
  14. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
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    Oh that's easy, you simply don't go to Erika at all until after you've beaten Koga. Erika gives you access to strength out of battle, which you don't actually need until you get to Victory road. You can do the Pokeflute quest without ever setting foot in Erika's gym, just go through the rocket hideout, get the scope, go to Lavender town and rescue Mr. Fuji to get the Pokeflute, wake up either Snorlax, boom you're home free.
  15. Naix

    Naix

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    [​IMG]
    Bulbasaur (Yellow) - Mid Tier
    -Availability: Given to you in Cerulean City, at level 10. Keep in mind that to get it, you need Pikachu to have high happiness.
    -Stats: Decent all around, with good Special.
    -Movepool: It starts off without any STAB moves, meaning you're not exactly doing well with it until it gets to level 13, when it gets Vine Whip, which has a staggering 35 base power and a shocking 10 PP. However, 17 levels (assuming you evolved it, which you should've) later, it gains access to the far superior Razor Leaf, which is better than Vine Whip in every way. Aside from that, keep in mind that it's a Grass-type that can't use Stun Spore or Sleep Powder (although it can learn Sleep Powder, it doesn't get the chance until level 55, and you should've beaten the game by then). Body Slam is quite helpful for those who aren't hit super-effectively by Vine Whip, but keep in mind that you're using up an exclusive TM, and resisted Razor Leaf does around the same amount of damage (assuming criticals and a 2x resistance, of course).
    -Power: Since you get it at the measly level 10, when the rest of your party should be at least level 15, Bulbasaur is underlevelled when you get it, and it can't really do anything to anybody until it learns Vine Whip. Early evolution is helpful, but it'll eventually fall behind again, specifically after you get through Rock Tunnel, as seemingly half the trainers have a Pokemon that resists Vine Whip. Body Slam can help, as it has notably more Base Power than Vine Whip. Once it learns Razor Leaf, expect things to take a turn for the better, and thanks to evolving again 2 levels after that, Venusaur will pulverize everything that doesn't resist Grass, and even some things that do. Once you get to the water routes, it'll be smooth sailing for Venusaur.
    -Type: Grass is useful until you get through Rock Tunnel, and picks up again when you get finish Silph. Shame its secondary typing doesn't really do much to help it aside from making it neutral to Poison and immune to Poison (status), as it gives almost no extra coverage and also adds a weakness to Psychic.
    -Match-ups:
    Misty: Assuming you went to see Bill first, you should be fine, because of Ivysaur's good (at the time) Special combined with its type advantage should give you an easy victory. Don't use it against her if you just got it, though, because of a severe level disadvantage as well as the fact that Bulbasaur doesn't know any Grass-type moves (ignoring the useless Leech Seed) when you get it.
    Lt. Surge: Not quite as easy as Misty, as his Raichu knows Mega Kick and has a solid Attack stat to back it up.
    Erika: Seeing as how her entire team resists Grass-type moves (in fact, Weepinbell and Gloom resist Razor Leaf with the critical factored in), and 2 of her Pokemon know Sleep Powder, using Ivysaur against her is not recommended.
    Koga: His team resists Razor Leaf even with criticals factored in, and they all know Psychic. Even though they don't get STAB from it, his weakest Pokemon is level 44.
    Sabrina: Beating her Abra without taking any damage isn't notable, as even a Magikarp could do it. Her other Pokemon have high Special, are level 50, and get STAB on Psychic, which means you'll have to rely on them using Psywave and getting low damage rolls as you Body Slam them.
    Blaine: Venusaur can take a Fire Blast if necessary, but don't expect it to take repeated uses of it.
    Giovanni: All of his Pokemon (minus Persian, who has Slash which is still quite powerful) know Earthquake, which can leave a dent in Venusaur, but all of them are OHKOed by Razor Leaf, barring the Nidos.
    Lorelei: 4 of her Pokemon are weak to Razor Leaf, but Lapras can take a hit, while Jynx outright outspeeds Venusaur, allowing both of them to attack it with Blizzard and Ice Punch, respectively.
    Bruno: *insert sentence here about his Onix getting destroyed by even Vine Whip* Overall, his Pokemon have low Special, and Venusaur resists Fighting, and both of these things mean that your Venusaur should have little trouble dealing with him.
    Agatha: Her Ghosts are a nightmare, as they have high Special, are resistant to Grass-type moves, and are immune to Normal. Her Golbat 4x resists Razor Leaf, meaning that you're best off using Venusaur against her Arbok or not at all.
    Lance: Venusaur can beat Gyarados 1-on-1, but is defeated by his first Dragonair, Aerodactyl, and Dragonite. Not much else to say here.
    Gary: Sandslash, Cloyster, Magneton, and Jolteon (keep an eye out for Pin Missile, though) are the only things Venusaur has a likely victory against on its own. If you have the Poke Flute with you (which you should) and taught Venusaur Body Slam, you can add Exeggutor to that list, as it doesn't know any Psychic-type moves. The reason why it can't easily beat his other Pokemon can be explained as such: Alakazam has a type advantage (not to mention the fact that it's Alakazam), Ninetales knows Fire Spin and Confuse Ray, Vaporeon has great special bulk and knows Aurora Beam, and Flareon knows Fire Spin and Flamethrower.
    -Additional Comments: Bulbasaur has a (very) weak start, and only ascends to "average" until it learns Razor Leaf and evolves again. When those things happen, expect OHKOes on everything that doesn't resist it, and even a few that do. Keep in mind, however, that you need to baby it for the first few levels, and it can't really do anything in places like Lavender Tower.
  16. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Doesn't he have Pin Missile though?

    IMO, Bulbasaur really needs the Body Slam TM to stay strong as so many Pokemon resist Grass.
  17. Naix

    Naix

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    It does, but it also has base 65 Attack, and Pin Missile itself isn't strong in the first place (70 base power at best), but I will make note of it.

    I will make mention of Body Slam, and its pros and cons. Thank you for pointing these things out, I probably should've inlcuded them in the submission in the first place.

    Okay, I edited the submission with what you said, and I also changed the Sabrina match-up slightly, as I do remember her Pokemon using Psywave on a Venusaur in the past.
  18. Dre89

    Dre89

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    If you want to give that TM to someone else, bulbasaur can still manage just fine seeing as he can just sleep powder everything that razor leaf can't wreck.

    Also, it's better not to evolve bulbasaur until it learns sleep powder at level 41. Bulbasaur with razor leaf is better than ivysaur without it, and bulbasaur with sleep powder is better than venusaur without it.

    The set I ran through the game with was spowder rleaf growth body slam.

    Rleaf and growth seems a bit redundant, but the reason why I kept growth was for the E4, at which point I dropped rleaf for mdrain. I would basically just sleep the first pokemon and max out my special then mdrain everything. It might be a better idea to drop bslam instead of mdrain, you're mono grass, but it'll let you OHKO stuff after you've beaten the E4. If anything resists grass you can just spowder-growth-mdrain on them.
  19. Garud

    Garud

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    There are better pokemon that can take advantage of Earthquake, even though Rhydon gets STAB on it. Plus, he's not hitting anything important with it anyway, because he's too slow and too quick to be KO'd. Nidoking is better with Earthquake anyway.

    @atsync Thanks for the heads-up, I've amended the entry to include those factors. Rhydon can beat Blaine, but hes going to be stuck in Fire Spin for quite a while.

    Also, I think the only Pokemon that get separate entries for Yellow should be the 4 starters (Charmander, Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Pikachu). This way we don't need to start an entirely new list just for Yellow, as they are pretty much the only pokemon that may be placed differently. It also keeps the additional tier listings to a minimum.
  20. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Here are the main changes in Yellow:

    Brock:
    - Geodude and Onix have been lowered two levels.
    Misty:
    -Still the same
    L.T Surge:
    - Voltorb and Pikachu have been removed.
    - Raichu is now four levels stronger, and knows "Mega Punch" and "Mega Kick" instead of "Thundershock" and "Thunder Wave"
    Erika:
    - Victrebell/Vileplume are now Weepinbell/Gloom, but 3 levels stronger.
    - Weepinbell replaces "PoisonPowder" with "Stun Spore"
    - Gloom replaces "Poison Powder/Mega Drain" with "Acid/Petal Dance".
    - Her Tangela has been raised six levels and also knows Mega Drain and Vine Whip.
    Koga:
    - His Late 30s/Early 40s Koffing/Muks have been replaced by Late 40s/Early 50s Venonats.
    Sabrina:
    - No more Venomoth and Mr. Mime. Instead she has Abra, Kadabra, and Alakazam all at Level 50.
    Blaine:
    - Has a Ninetails instead of Ponyta and Growlithe, and his Pokemon are stronger in Yellow.
    Giovanni:
    - Has Persian instead of Rhyhorn, and all of his Pokemon have been raised to be from Level 40s to Level 50s

    Lorlei
    -Dewgong has "BubbleBeam" instead of "Growl"
    -Cloyster has "Ice Beam" instead of "Aurora Beam"
    -Slowbro has "Surf" and "Psychic" instead of "Water Gun" and "Amnesia"
    -Jynx has "Lovely Kiss" instead of "Body Slam"

    Bruno:
    -Onix has "Rock Slide" instead of "Rock Throw," "Dig" or "Earthquake" instead of "Rage," and "Screech" instead of "Harden"
    -Hitmonchan has "Double Team" instead of "Counter"
    -Hitmonlee has "Double Kick" instead of "Jump Kick" and "Double Team" instead of "Focus Energy"
    -Machamp has "Strength" and "Karate Chop" instead of "Focus Energy" and "Fissure"

    Agatha:
    -1st Gengar has "Lick" "Subsisute" and "Mega Drain" over "Night Shade" "Hypnosis" "Dream Eater"
    -Golbat has "Leech Life" and "Toxic" over "Confuse Ray" and "Haze"
    -Haunter has "Lick" over "Night Shade"
    -Arbok has "Wrap" instead of "Bite"
    -2nd Gengar has "Psychic" and "Hypnosis" over "Night Shade" and "Toxic"

    Lance:
    -1st Dragonair has "Thunder Wave" and "Thunderbolt" over "Agility" and "Dragon Rage"
    -2nd Dragonair has "Bubblebeam" and "Ice Beam" over "Agility" and "Dragon Rage"
    -Aerodactyl has "Swift" "Fly" "Wing Attack" over "Bite" "Take Down" "Supersonic"
    -Dragonite has "Blizzard" "Fire Blast" "Thunder" over "Agility" "Barrier" and "Slam"

    Gary:
    - Cloyster replaced Gyarados.
    - Ninetails replaced Arcanine
    - Sandslash replaced Pidgeot
    - Magneton replaced Rhydon
    - An Eevee evolution replaced opposing starter Pokemon.
  21. Garud

    Garud

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    138
    ^Thanks for pointing that out.
  22. Naix

    Naix

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2012
    Messages:
    375
    Since Hemp Man made a list of changes to the bosses' teams between Red/Blue and Yellow, I decided to make a list mentioning the changes to the Pokemon themselves. Keep in mind that if a Pokemon underwent minor changes, like "Caterpie can be found as high as level 6 now, rather than level 5" or "Diglett can now learn Cut", such differences will not be mentioned. Also, while the in-game trades change, such trades will not be mentioned unless it's a major change, such as Farfetch'd, who can now only be obtained at Routes 12 and 13, in the wild. Another thing: if there's any changes I might've missed, don't hesitate to let me know!
    Red/Blue to Yellow Differences List (open)
    [​IMG]
    Obtained in Cerulean City at level 10
    [​IMG]
    Obtained in Route 24 at level 10
    [​IMG]
    Obtained in Vermilion City at level 10
    [​IMG]
    Learns all of its moves 2 levels earlier
    [​IMG]
    Is the starter, learns Thunderbolt by level-up, can't evolve
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at Route 3 and Mt. Moon
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Both learn Double Kick much earlier, at level 12
    [​IMG]
    Can only be obtained by buying it at the Game Corner
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at Route 25, learns Confusion
    [​IMG]
    Can only be obtained by Surfing on Route 6
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at Route 22, learns Low Kick
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at Route 5, rather than 24 and 25
    [​IMG]
    Can be obtained via an in-game trade
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at Route 17
    [​IMG]
    Can only be found by Surfing on Routes 12 and 13
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at Route 10
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at Routes 12 and 13, can no longer be obtained via an in-game trade
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at Routes 16 and 17
    [​IMG]
    Can no longer be found at Route 10
    [​IMG]
    Can only be obtained post-game, at Celadon Cave
    [​IMG]
    Can be caught at the Safari Zone, can no longer be obtained via in-game trade
    [​IMG]
    Requires a Clefairy instead of an Abra
    [​IMG]
    Can't learn Water Gun via level-up, learns Aurora Beam via level-up
    [​IMG]
    Can't learn Thundershock, learns Double Kick and Pin Missile much earlier
    [​IMG]
    Can't learn Ember, learns Bite and Fire Spin much earlier
  23. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    So my Yellow run so far is: Pikachu, Butterfree, Diglett, Flareon.

    Pikachu - So far he has been average. He can beat Brock with the right strategy, but there are easier ways. Starmie would have had this guy for breakfast if it wasn't for the Stun Spore hax, and LT Surge destroyed him. Wasn't too helpful against Erika either.
    Butterfree - Caterpie took forever to train, but Confusion has been helpful. Brock is no match. Staryu was beat, and Butterfree can at least Stun Spore Starmie to wear it down. No match for LT Surge, but a lot of the Pokemon at Erika's gym were weak to Confusion.
    Diglett - I know I said I was going to use Cubone, but I had no other way of beating Surge unless I overgrinded. Took out Surge's gym, but was rather fragile at Erika's.
    Flareon -Holy Crap, this thing dominated Erika's gym. Despite only having Quick Attack, it took out most of her gym. Let's see where things go on from here.
  24. Garud

    Garud

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    138
    I was going through my playthrough of pokemon blue for the pokemon I mentioned above, and I got to Misty, and I decided to test out Alakazam vs Starmie, because when I wrote up the review, it was stated that Alakazam is 3HKO'd. Well, even though he's 2 levels above, I sorta proved that wrong. Even though that video is one battle, I tested this 6 times, with critical hits landing in all different spots. Turns out, he didn't lose once.

    Of course, Thunder Wave is a huge help, but it's available right at that point so why not use it?
  25. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2005
    Messages:
    739
    So in my Yellow run Machamp has been disappointing so far. I had to grind him to catch up to the rest of my team, and even then he lost to a fricken Goldeen at one point.

    On the other hand, Flareon is surprisingly awesome. Bite + Quick Attack is taking out trainers with ease, even without having any STAB moves.
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