1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Pokemon Unfit for UU Analyses

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Oglemi, Jun 6, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,261
    Yeah Arcanine is there
  2. GtM

    GtM

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    Messages:
    717
    I'd like to vouch from experience that Electric attacks are pretty damn rare in UU. Nidoking's Thunderbolt is just about the only one you'll find in the average game, although admittedly Electivire does better against Nidoking than Jolteon.
  3. oizo 06

    oizo 06

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    16
    Victini, Arcanine and Zapdos also use Electric moves, and they're all in the top 10 in the statistics.
  4. zdrup15

    zdrup15
    is a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,775
    Ok so I think there should be a few changes here:

    Sawsbuck: ok this thing was on my team last round and it was very good without a doubt. However, without Drought support, it has neither the bulk to get the boost it NEEDS to sweep, or the Speed to revenge anything. So I think it just doesn't deserve an analysis for now.

    Charizard: pretty much the same reason makes me bring Charizard. The only reason people used it was its ability Solar Power. However, without Drought support, Charizard doesn't have the necessary power (Solar Power provided it with the Specs boost it needed to hurt things). Its major weakness to Stealth Rock means a Choice item is pretty much unviable unless you carry a Rapid Spinner and, in that case, Moltres outclasses it completely by hitting harder and taking hits better (which means it has the opportunity to use Roost). So I think it should be removed.

    Froslass: in a metagame that will have Hail as its main weather, Froslass deserves at least a Spiker set. It's fast and its ability means it will often get at least 2 layers, while also working as a spinblocker. With the top spinners being Donphan and Hitmontop (which doesn't run Sucker Punch that often on the spinners sets), Froslass can pretty much come in, threaten them out, and being to set up.
  5. Moo

    Moo Professor
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,446
    Sawsbuck and Charizard need some time, because they might stay popular even with Drought gone.

    And I agree about Froslass, Spin Blocker+Spiker is a cool role and Taunt+Dbond is just as cool.
  6. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,148
    Definitely disagree with Charizard. A standalone Sunny Day is still ridiculously effective and with sun support from another Pokemon the Choice Specs set is ridiculously strong.
  7. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Agree with PK on this, I've seen quite a few Sunny Day Charizard used to great effect. Also, seconding Froslass, Spikes+Taunt+Destiny Bond + spinblocking is just too good pass up...
  8. sax king

    sax king

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2010
    Messages:
    769
    Regirock is a monster on SS teams. Curse is an amazing set that Registeel can't quite copy (no SDef boost, not as much Def) Definitely should be added.
  9. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,149
    Actually, Milktank's bigger issue is competition with Slowbro/SlowKing... Same resistances (fire/ice), similar defensive stats and offensive (special v. physical). While Miltank needs to choose between the precious fire/ice resistances and the ability to hit everything with its STAB, Slowbro gets all of that just by typing, and Regenerator on top of it. Regenerator alone is generally a bigger selling point than Heal Bell. With Scald for STAB + Burn, Slowbro just generally makes for a better support Poke

    As a stat-booster Slowbro get Calm Mind to cover his weaker special defensive side, better offensive STAB type (and 2 of them!) and a host of awesome coverage moves like Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Grass Knot.

    I've considered Miltank before, but I really couldn't justify using it over Bro or King.
  10. prem

    prem failed abortion
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,778
    anything on galvantula? most of the bulky pokes in UU right now are bulky waters and psychic types. galvantulas stab compoundeyes thunder and bug buzz take care of both of them , while he has energy ball for any quagsires trying to switch in

    also he is not outclassed by jolteon because his life orb thunder does more damage than jolteons specs thunderbolt.
  11. Diana

    Diana This isn't even my final form
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    Messages:
    1,394
    Sawsbuck absolutely needs to stay. Sunny Day teams still work because Abomasnow is weak to Fire and Hippopotas is weak to Grass. Not to mention that there are weatherless teams in UU, not every team is going to have Abomasnow or Hippopotas anyway...
  12. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,149
    Pretty much this.
  13. Moo

    Moo Professor
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,446
    Yeah, I agree that it should get a priority analysis, but it should definetily get one in the future.
  14. The3DOstrich

    The3DOstrich

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    172
    I'd like to nominate Espeon for an analysis. Magic Bounce works quite well against defensive teams, and the ability to bounce back status is always a plus, as status inducers usually don't like being statused as well. It also bounces back entry hazards and incoming Taunts, so it doesn't fear using moves such as Calm Mind. It also makes a decent Dual Screener (though Uxie does it better) and can Baton Pass Calm Minds and Substitute's without fear of being Taunted. Its also has a great base 130 base special attack and a very good base speed of 110, so its perfectly capable of sweeping as well.

    Edit: I'd also like to nominate Victreebel. He's a monster under the sun, and essentially functions as a less bulky but more offensively oriented Venusaur. Access to growth only helps it, as it can easily run either a mixed or purely special set. It also has access to Weather Ball, which operates at double BP under the sun, and means Victreebel needn't use Hidden Power Fire to hit Steels, allowing it to use another Hidden Power. It also has a decent support movepool as well, such as Stockpile, Knock Off, and Encore, which it can effectively set up thanks to its boosted speed under the sun.

    And, just because it hasn't been mentioned, what about Vulpix? Sure, its bulk isn't fantastic with Eviolite, but its got an ok support movepool, and Drought allows you to give sweepers like Sawsbuck and Charizard abuse Chlorophyll and Solar Power respectively.
  15. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,539
    Urk, I was so excited about UU analyses that I didn't notice this.

    So, I'll make cases for Exeggutor and Aggron. Exeggutor is one of the best supporters for Trick Room thanks to Sleep Powder, has a niche for Subseeding thanks to Harvest, and is quite threatening with Sunny Day or a Choice Specs set, especially due to Sleep Powder.

    Aggron is pretty damn scary with a Choice Band thanks to Head Smash, 2HKOing at worst just about anything that doesn't resist it, and even some things that do. Metal Burst + Sturdy also gives it a niche over other Stealth Rock users.

    EDIT: Self-locked my threads until approved to save the mods some trouble. Won't complain if I'm infracted.
  16. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,261
    K some things:

    Espeon - I had/have it on the priority list for the Reservations thread, but I forgot to add it here. My bad.

    Exeggutor - I agree. Go ahead

    Aggron - This I'm not so sure about. I haven't tried it myself, but if someone else could vouch for its effectiveness and maybe add a couple logs I'll consider it. Those glaring weaknesses are hard to miss, and there is just too much stuff that is faster than Aggron this time around. It'll definitely get one later, so don't worry about that.

    Galvantula - See Chou's post

    Victreebel - Honestly, when I tried him with Drought I wasn't impressed. And, now with Drought gone, I don't see him being the best choice for a Sunny Day team. I would always choose Shiftry over Victreebel tbh (but that may be because I have a soft spot for Shiftry). In any case, I don't even have Shiftry on the priority list, so it'll take some major convincing for me to add Victreebel.

    Vulpix - lol no Drought got banned.

    Regirock - Rhyperior > Regirock. So no. I realize he plays differently, but he's really not good enough even with SS support.

    Froslass - Yeah I agree.

    Electivire - OK, I guess the tier is kind of lacking in physical Electric attacks. Also Motor Drive is an OK niche.
  17. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Shouldn't we hold off on Espeon to see if it becomes OU or not? Because I have a feeling that it is gonna turn out to be that way.
  18. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,261
    Yeah and it looked like Electivire and Dusknoir were going to be UU for like the last 4 rounds of OU in 4th gen. I'll still let Espeon to be written for now.
  19. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,042
    Good point... ok
  20. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,149
    Victrebell is a no-go from me... weak bulk, slow :/
  21. breh

    breh
    is a Smogon IRC AOP

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2010
    Messages:
    3,113
    I'd like to add Jynx and Archeops (mostly because I want to add analyses of them, heh).

    Jynx was previously outclassed by Kyurem, but is now one of Hail's premier sweepers with its ban. It's a very nice scarfer and now does not have to worry about anything but Sandslash and faster scarfers outspeeding. It can also run Nasty Plot very well.

    Archeops is similar. It's fast, it's idiotically strong, and now it doesn't have to worry about anything outspeeding it at all, bar scarfed pokemon, unlike the Drought sweepers of last round. If scarfed pokemon (especially hail sweepers) begin to be problematic, a Scarf set (it can run Adamant and still outspeed most relevant pokemon) can be run at the cost of Acrobat.
  22. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,261
    You and FlareBlitz can push for Jynx all you want, I still don't think she's that impressive. Any priority wrecks her, Chansey walls the shit out of her, and she isn't particularly fast by the new UU standards. Maybe later when I see her in action.

    Archeops I'll allow.
  23. QuantumDerp

    QuantumDerp

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    76
    Quick question, Kyurem was tiered in UU by the usage stats, is he still down here? If so he would be a monster in UU where he's actually pretty fast and deserves an analysis. Also an analysis for Accelgor is deserved as he makes a pretty good spikes lead.
  24. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,261
    Kyurem was banned and will not be in the tier ever again. Plus the ladder was just re-set, so have fun.

    Also Froslass and Deoxys-D > Accelgor. So, no.
  25. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor Alumnusis the Smogon Tour Season 10 Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,239
    Blastoise is a good bulky water and rapid spinner. He also got a nice buff in Dragon Tail.
    Add?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)