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Stored Power + Shell Smash: Yet another gimmick, or a unholy combo?

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by nyttyn, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Already did the mandatory searches and what not, and found nothing on this combo. So, unless I derped and missed something horribly, there isn't another thread on it.


    So! Stored Power. A rather overlooked move of this generation. Only finding home on a extremely small handful of pokemon, it finds use only as a gimmick. Before we go further, let us break it down.

    Stored Power
    Type: Psychic
    Category: Special
    PP 10 (16 max)
    Power: 20
    Accuracy: 100%
    Doesn't make contact
    Affected by Protect/etc
    Not affected by Magic Coat
    Not affected by Snatch
    Affected by King's Rock

    Pokemon that can learn Stored Power:
    Via level up
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]/[​IMG]
    [​IMG]/[​IMG]/[​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Via Breeding
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    As is, this move is utter rubbish. 20 power with 16 PP? However, it has a special effect (Thanks Bulbpedia)

    "Stored Power deals variable damage depending on the stat modifications of the user. When the user has no stat modifications, Stored Power's base power is 20. Its power increases by 20 for each stat boost the user has, and does not decrease in power due to stat drops below 0. It reaches a maximum power of 860 [20 (base power) + {20 x 7 (total number of stats that can be maximized, including Evasion and Accuracy) x 6 (maximum number of boosts per stat)}]."

    Or, in other words, for every stat stage a pokemon has, its power increases by 20. So if I used Defense Curl, its power would be 40 (20 + (20 * 1)). If I used Calm Mind afterwards, its power would be 80 (20 + (20 * 3)). You can see where I am going with this.

    Normally, this move is kind of underpowered. Most stat boosts give 2 at most, and the elusive quiver dance only gives 3, but the pokemon that can baton pass it are elusive at best.

    Enter: Shell Smash
    Type: Normal
    Category: Status
    "Shell Smash decreases the user's Defense and Special Defense stat by one level, but increases the user's Attack, Special Attack, and Speed by two levels each."

    This move gives six stat boosts (four of which help us immensely). Ergo, Stored Power becomes a 160 (20 + (20 * 6)) 100% accurate STAB with 16 PP, which is enough to sweep an entire team, unless they all have protect and sturdy/focus sash.

    Of course, none of the pokemon I listed actually have shell smash. That is where Baton Pass comes in.

    [​IMG]

    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Gorebyss. A popular canidate for "ShellSmashing," which is the act of baton passing a Gorebyss equipped with white herb after they use shell smash once to obtain a sweeper with hyperstats, it has only two common counters in today's metagame: The rare lead who has a thunder attack, and people who instantly use Taunt as their first move.

    Of course, the tricky part here is making sure the poke being Baton Passed to can survive a hit to the face. For this reason, I recommend someone with special bulk, as thunder-fang and the like are not very common. Gardevoir and Victini work very well with stored power as a result. Xatu and Espeon have horrible bulk, but they have the amazing advantage of Magic Bounce, which deflects pretty much anything that doesn't do damage. I shouldn't have to tell you how amazing of a upside that is.

    So, we know the strengths of this, so how about the weaknesses? For one, if your opponent leads with Intimidate, Gorebyss will eat his/her white herb like a moron, meaning that your sweeper will have to deal with 0.67x def/spdef. A huge disadvantage, since they will have to tank the swap-in hit odds are, but nothing unmanagable. Secondly, anyone who realizes what you are doing in the first turn (not a strech, since pretty much all Gorebyss does is Shell Smash/Baton Pass), who leads with Taunt, can ruin the sweep before it gets started. Shadow Sneak wrecks almost every pokemon who can learn Stored Power, and it has priority. Anything that can OHKO Gorebyss will also be problomatic. Finally, dark types as a whole are going to give you a headache.

    Most of these problems can be dealt with ahead of time in WiFi by saving Gorebyss' shellsmash/batonpass until you get a opening to do so. The only real issue you will always have to keep in mind is shadow sneak, but thankfully a good chunk of pokemon who learn stored power can take at least one of them to the face. Make sure you go Timid nature and full speed EVs while we're on the subject of speed, so things like Focus Sash ShellSmash Cloyster and pokemon with Rock Polish/Agility can't outspeed you and counter-sweep you. Also, if your poke isn't terribly bulky, priority moves are going to be a real pain, since not a single pokemon who learns stored power can also learn a special type prirority move.

    On a final closing note, let us go over the pros/cons of every pokemon who can learn Stored Power
    [​IMG]
    Pros: It's Clefable! Make your opponent rage with memeories of hours spent trying to catch a clefairy!
    Only one weakness
    Immune to Shadow Sneak!
    Metronome is amusing if you’re insane enough to use it
    Magic Guard!

    Overall a strong movepool
    Cons: Rubbish base stats
    It’s Clefable, you lose ten manliness points for using it

    [​IMG]
    Pros: Future Sight can win you the lottery
    Impressive move pool
    Decent speed and spatk
    Magic Bounce!

    Cons: Horrible typing
    Horrible defenses
    Opponent may taunt you by singing Surfin’ Bird

    [​IMG]
    Pros: Easy on the eyes
    Above-average special bulk
    Dat SpAtk
    Decent speed, timid nature can outrun pretty much every other 2 speed stage booster
    Trace is delicious
    An utterly amazing movepool
    Cons: Mono-psychic is horrible defensive wise
    Trace can backfire horribly
    Shadow sneak is going to ruin your day
    Most priorities are physical, and Gardevoir’s physical defense is rubbish
    Opponent may taunt you by posting rule 34 pics, unless you’re into it, in which case this is a pro

    [​IMG]
    Pros: Baton arms!
    Decent speed
    High physical attack
    Cons: RUBBISH Sp Atk stat
    Steadfast is useless, and Justified assumes he can actually survive a dark attack
    Don’t use Gallede. Just…don’t. Not with stored power at least.

    [​IMG]
    Pros: ITS SOOO CUUUUTE
    Base 100 stats
    Accuracy boosting ability makes Focus Miss…less so
    Cons: HORRIBLE typing. You thought Xatu had bad typing?
    V-create is a dual-edged suicide button that really isn’t much better then stored power
    Event pokemon, might be a PITA to get one
    It’s cute, so minus manliness points

    [​IMG]
    Pros: A hippie’s favorite pokemon
    Bulky
    High special attack
    Good move pool
    Cons: You may be accused of being a stoner

    Slower than a fat man swimming in the Atlantic ocean without water wings
    Somewhat crippling weaknesses
    Nothing really decent in the way of abilities. Synchronize is…meh at best, Forewarn is a gimmick, and Telepathy has use in doubles and triples, but not singles

    [​IMG]
    Pros: Put a Umbreon on your team too and you can pretend you’re playing Pokemon Coliseum!
    Woah-jeez high special attack
    High speed
    Decent special defense
    Magic bounce!
    Cons: It will not survive any physical priority moves. Period.
    Typing issues
    Gary Oak uses eevee-family pokemon, and Gary Oak is a tosser

    [​IMG]
    Pros: Pretty much Gardevoir with flying/normal typing
    Immune to shadow sneak
    It lays delicious eggs
    Cons: Pretty much Gardevoir with flying/normal typing
    Doesn’t get Psychic STAB
    It looks like an egg with wings

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    No, just no. Every other monopsychic on this list is superior to either of these rejects

    [​IMG]
    Pros: Unaware is kind of nice?
    High speed
    Awww, it has a heart nose
    Cons: Rubbish stats besides speed
    Crippling weaknesses
    It’s the goddamn zubat of this generation
    Note: Simple doesn’t synergize with this strategy because it does not work retroactively in generation 5

    [​IMG]
    Pros: Magic Guard!
    Average stats
    Cons: What the hell is it supposed to be? Some sort of totem…pole…unown..hybrid..bird..thing?
    Horrible typing again
    Average stats


    So yeah, that was a look at the Shell Smash/Stored Power combo, and the pokemon that can (ab)use it. Hopefully, this convinces you that it’s worth a short. Discuss?
  2. Murkglow

    Murkglow

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    The main problem with Stored Power (beyond the whole Baton Passing Shell Smash idea which is its own problem) is that Psychic isn't a good attacking type. Pokemon who resist it are all over the place (Steel & Psychics, with pokemon like Jirachi 4x resisting it...), Tyranitar is outright immune, and pokemon weak to it being mildly rare (maybe a half dozen pokes total but not enough for it to be a huge bonus). And that's not even dealing with the fact that it's a useless attack without the stat ups.

    If you're going to go through the trouble to Baton Pass a Shell Smash (which is hard enough to pull off, Its not like you need a "counter" to kill Gorebyss a strong attack will do, not to mention your recipient must also survive a strong attack as they come in without any defensive boosts) why not put it on an actual sweeper with good stats (Victini stats are decent though not great but its typing is poor) and good moves (Why use Stored Power when you could use Fire Blast or Earthquake or Ice Beam ect ect...)? I mean you could Baton Pass to a Salamance or Terrekion or something, what does Stored Power really give to make up for that?

    Of course if we're talking a different tier then OU it might be a bit more viable. Maybe in RU or NU but even there passing a Shell Smash isn't easy. Whats more if you do get a smash off Gorebyss herself is a good user of it in lower tiers letting you cut out the Baton Pass/Stored Power part entirely...

    If you really want to use Stored Power, Sigilyph is really the only major user of it and he can boost himself with Calm Minds while burning anything physical that switches into him.
  3. Entere

    Entere

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    I kind of agree about that. Interesting, but I think given the chance, I wouldn't bank on being able to pull off the tricky maneuver of doing a successful SmashPass.
    Also, either I'm missing something, or shell smash stored power does 320 because of doubling attack, and 480 because of STAB on most users.

    Also,
    Is musharna that slow?
  4. Wobbanaut

    Wobbanaut

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    This is a gimmicky strategy I see the best user of this is Espeon but the sheer power of this is incredible and cause 6-0 sweeps but then again even Magikarp can 6-0 sweep teams this strategy is really inconsistent (not as much as Magikarp though ) but I think im gonna test it out and see how it goes and report back as the alias of vbbbb well let's see how the goes
  5. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!

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    Stored Power is not a gimmick, not on some Pokemon anyway. Shell Smash is also clearly not a gimmick. However Shell Smash and Stored Power combined, without any other support IS a gimmick simply because you'd be better of Smash-passing to something else anyway. The biggest problem isn't with Stored Power or Shell Smash itself, but with the Pokemon that carry Stored Power. They just don't have the stats and movepools to pull it off properly, not when compared to other recipients of Smash-pass. Basically, yes, Stored Power becomes a very powerful move when combined with Shell Smash. It's just the Pokemon that get it aren't the best for recieving a Shell Smash in the first place. Espeon and Gardevoir don't have the defenses, Gallade, Clefable don't have the power and Xatu, Swoobat and Musharna don't have the stats or movepool, and Chimeco just doesn't have... well anything. The most useful of these Pokemon with such a combination is probably Vicinti and Togekiss, who have better things to do with V-Create and paraflinching respectively.

    Honestly, it's basically just an ordinary Smash Pass with a powerful but poorly typed move thrown in. It's subject to all the problems ordinary Smash Pass has with Pokemon roaring you out before you can use it, taunt, priority, etc. Stored Power is not strong enough after a single Shell Smash to in and of itself make a Pokemon a far better recipient than another.

    However, combine it with something like a Baton pass chain with defensive boosts to pad up Espeon, and you can get something truely lethal. The two on their own aren't anything special though.

    However, I will note that Vicinti is actually probably a way better recipient for Smash pass than I had thought before. It's got great Special coverage so with Smash Pass and the right coverage moves, it could really tear shit up. HP Fighting would get rid of the dark types and... hmmmm...

    And Togekiss could have potential too, as even though it looses out on STAB it makes up for it with Serene Grace giving you extra options for working past counters. It has a decent Special Attacking movepool too and good bulk.

    Still, they're not exactly gamebreaking. Just two potnetial smash pass recipients made better by access to Stored Power, but probably still behind the likes of Nidoking and Latios who just have more to work with... as well as useful fighting type resistances for those Mach Punches all over the place.
  6. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1

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    Entere's got a point of it being 320 power due to the fact that Stored Power doesn't negate the boosts, so you have a +2 attack boost (which is double attack) along with a 160 BP move.

    Sadly, most things either resist or are immune to psychic, at least in OU. If not most, then many, and that means a 320 move gets cut to 160 anyways, and everyone knows that while STAB makes it a 480 move, Psychic is a horrible defensive typing (except against the fighting hordes, but that's neither here nor there), so having STAB makes you a glass cannon.

    While i can see this strategy working on paper, the sad part is that the combination just wouldn't work in real battles. Too hard to pull off a Smash Pass in the first place, and even harder to then effectively sweep with Stored Power. I'd agree with Murkglow and say Terrakion could do more with a Smash boost than anything with Stored Power, even if the BP is higher.

    Still, high risk, not-so-high-but-still-sorta-high reward. Just not sure it's worth the set-up. Or the fact you have to use Gorebyss on your team, who is just...well...you all know about Gorebyss...

    The one thing i should stress here is that many people forget that high BP doesn't mean good. There's a limit to when BP becomes stupid rather than useful. If you only need a 130 BP move to kill a Salamence (hypothetical example, numbers are arbitrary), then you only need a 130 BP move to kill a Salamence. You can use 160 BP, 240 BP or even 480 BP, but that thing is dying no matter what you use, and the extra BP is wasted doing nothing. Strict Damage Clause, along with the mechanics of pokemon battling in general prevent the extra BP from doing anything even remotely useful. That, and Tyranitar just completely ignores Stored Power.
  7. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Espeon is probably the most notable user Stored Power, as it has Magic Bounce to prevent Whirlwind and Roar from phazing away your boosts and can bounce back Thunder Wave that would normally end your sweep. It's great on Baton Pass teams to prevent phazing, as it also gets Calm Mind and Baton Pass to continue setting up for it or another Pokemon to sweep. It's generally not the primary receiver of Shell Smash on SmashPass teams but it is useful if your opponent send in a phazer that would remove your boosts.

    The other notable user is Sigilyph, who can keep setting up Cosmic Power and then Burn most Dark Pokemon with the combination of Psycho Shift and Flame Orb. It's pretty difficult to kill without getting a critical hit and is only walled by Shed Skin Scrafty, Houndoom, and fast Dark-types with either Taunt or Substitute.

    Other than that, I don't think any of the Pokemon with this move should really be using it. I remember some people using Moody Smeargle with Baton Pass together with Simple Swoobat in early Gen 5, but as you said, Simple doesn't actually double the effectiveness of the boosts, which means it doesn't help unless the Simple Pokemon actually uses Shell Smash.
  8. nyttyn

    nyttyn Ribbit!
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    Well now, this was enlightening. I must admit I'm still somewhat new to competitive battling, so I tend to overlook things.

    That's just the thing. It doesn't to be honest. It's more along the lines of a slightly weaker alternate. However, it does have a upside, in that it's highly unexpected, and as such people are not going to have as many dedicated counters to it as they would, say, to Terrkion or Salamance. Plus, fighting hordes.

    It's different. On a side note I've never had my gorebyss killed in one hit while running this setup, but perhaps I'm just playing against idiots.

    However, I have been experimenting with throwing in a second baton passer, such as mew for example, who throws in a few more buffs and tanks a few hits to ensure that Stored Power reaches absurd levels. It has tradeoffs, but it's working rather well

    32 speed. It is that slow.
  9. Nyktos

    Nyktos Custom Loser Title
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    20 + 6×20 is actually "only" 140 BP.
  10. StallMandibuzz

    StallMandibuzz

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    ^Then you count STAB, and if it's SE against the target or not, along with the Sp. Attack of the attacker and the Sp. Def of the defender. It's not that cut and dry.
  11. Cinccino

    Cinccino

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    Taken from Serebii's POTW for CM Sigilyph:

  12. StallMandibuzz

    StallMandibuzz

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    @Cinccino: Those are helpful, and they show the power of Stored Power, but who would let Sigilyph set up all the way to +6? I would at least attempt to phaze it out before getting completely destroyed by it.
  13. Entere

    Entere

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    Well, keep in mind that this is talking about SmashPassing and Stored Power. No player in their right mind would let one's opponent do that.
    That aside, that CM tactic seems pretty good, and I don't doubt that one could get off 2 calm minds pretty easily. A decent surprise tactic.

    If you're talking about Smashpassing, that's another doubling as well.
  14. StallMandibuzz

    StallMandibuzz

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    If a Shell Smash was passed to Sigilyph, then Sigilyph uses three or four Calm Minds before using Stored Power, it could probably destroy a Metagross or Bronzong. Since Sigilyph is bulky on both sides, it should be Bold with full Def EVs, since Calm Mind will be boosting its' Sp. Defense, as well as fueling Stored Power. Only thing is you gotta watch out for phazers~
  15. Entere

    Entere

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    Erm... 4 CMs ... That's 14 boosts, plus STAB, plus +6 attacking stat.
    20 + 14*20 = 300, which means 1350 BP. No attacking EVs Sigilyph gets a 242 SPATK stat.

    Against a max spdef max hp Bronzong, it will do *insert drumroll* 63% and 75% ! A 2HKO. I was expecting more.
    With no spdef investment max hp, it still doesn't OHKO.

    Oh, wait. If you have Tinted Lens as your ability, it makes both those a clean ohko (127-150%)

    More stats:
    +6 Sigilyph Stored Power with 14 boosts and Tinted Lens, with no item OHKOs EVERY SINGLE NON-DARK TYPE BW OU SET ON SMOGON as of September 2011. Well, except for max HP max SPDEF quagsire.

    I'm a bit doubtful that it KOs everything. Can someone doublecheck? I am using the Honkaculator. Is this one inaccurate?
  16. TM13IceBeam

    TM13IceBeam

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    Meh, I'd rather use CM/CP Shiftilyph. It's one of the best sets in terms of sheer trollishness, you are only hard-countered by Houndoom iirc (Tyranitar does NOT appreciate burns, Jirachi actually outruns Sigilyph so it can't paralyze) StoredSmash seems awesome on paper, but its shit, shit and thoroughly shit. Even if you use Whirlwind, Skarmory is still going to take a burn to the face. Burns are crippling, really.

    StoredSmash is terrible. just terrible. You are limiting the possible potential of SmashPass by using Stored Power. A +2/+2 Salamence/Terrakion rapes shit better than a +2/+2 Clefable while actually not gg to TTar. Yeah, you can use Sigilyph, but god forbid its better to just use Sigilyph by itself considering Gorebyss's multitude of problems (slow, taunt bait).
  17. Showsni

    Showsni

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    I do use a Stored Power Sigilyph on my Smash Pass team, but he's not the regular recipient - that's either Nidoking or Jirachi. Sometimes, though, the time is right to pass the smashes to him instead. Mainly only if you want to troll someone by then setting up all your Cosmic Powers too and ending up with +6 in each stat.

    A better tactic is passing Quiver Dances, I find. Venomoth can usually get a Quiver Dance or two up, and then Sigilyph is an excellent recipient. He can either go on to get some Cosmic Powers as well, or just sweep with Stored Power. The extra speed also lets you outspeed Taunting Dark types, so you can concentrate all of Sigilyph's EVs in defence. Even with just one Quiver Dance passed to it Cosmic Power Sigilyph becomes much better.
  18. ramjr13

    ramjr13

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    I have been using a Stored Power Espeon with EVs in SpAtk and Speed. I pass a Quiver dance to it from Smeargle after I spore. I put choice specs on my Espeon because I have run into situations where my opponents poke wakes up after one turn and KOs either my Smeargle before the pass or Espeon after the pass. Hoever steel and dark types usually end up ruing this for me since Espeon gets locked into stored power.

    I also never lead with this, I usually go with Forretress to set up rocks to make future KOs easier since I only pass one Quiver Dance or switch out to Espeon on the first turn if I think my opponent is going to taunt me or set up there own rocks.

    EDIT: Also Magic Bounce prevents Espeon from being PHazed by things like Roar/Whirlwind and racks up Stealth Rock damage if it is used against it by making the opponent switch out instead.
  19. rhycochet

    rhycochet

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    whether or not this is a gimmick...doesn't it sound like a hilarious thing to do?
    it's sad, though, that not only is psychic a commonly resisted type, but also completely unable to hit darks...which are another common type running around these days.

    i'd much rather just stab icicle spear off cloyster though, and bypass the whole baton altogether :P
  20. Skore

    Skore

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    Perhaps try Life Orb and run with a moveset of Stored Power/ HP Fire or Fighting/ Morning Sun / <filler move>

    You'll still be weak to physical attacks and priority so having screens up can be a big help but you should be able to put dents in most steel or dark types with HP fighting or go with HP Fire if you fear Scizor that much.
  21. KTVX

    KTVX

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    Sigilyph is awesome. Long ago I had a crappy shellpass team, but that thing could turn around 6-0s into wins. I think the CP set is slower to set up and therefore less aggressive, but far more reliable, since you have impenetrable defenses to back you up, allowing you to get boosts AND avoiding revenge kills. You won't be missing Ice Beam since you can just burn any Dark types to death (I've done that to a tyranitar), meaning your sole true counter is the rare Houndoom (you can burn Shed Skin Scrafty multiple times, and wall it to death unless it has Ice Punch). This particular set benefits much more from ShellPass since it doubles sp.attack which can't be achieved by the CP set while the CM set can.
    My opinion, however, is that you're better off just using CP set standalone, and save up the passer's team slot for something that helps the team, or something that can actually remove sigilyph's counters, which paves the way for a sweep. Unless, of course, you want to center the team around the passer, and have multiple recipients depending on the situation, or a chain, but that's a whole different thing.
  22. ShortsTheory

    ShortsTheory

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    Embarrassingly, I made the mistake to let a Sigilyph to get to +6 with CP, and I thought it was just walling, 'cos I had no idea how Stored Power worked.

    Worst.Battle.Ever.

    Nevertheless, CP is the way to go for Stored power to get ultra bulky and ultra powerful. Sigilyph defines this.
  23. StallMandibuzz

    StallMandibuzz

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    Ouch. Sounds fun. <_< Stored Power is pretty gimmicky, but if you know how to use it, it can blow through teams. Dark types can hard counter it, but Shiftilyph can burn all of them, barring Houndoom. Phasers are also set-up boosters' worst enemies. :p
  24. windwolf777

    windwolf777

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    ^ Crits
  25. StallMandibuzz

    StallMandibuzz

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    Crits will happen regardless, whether or not your Pokèmon sets up or not. Lucky Chant is hugely gimmicky, but it could help, maybe?

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