1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

The Best Attack in Gen IV

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Nails, Sep 10, 2010.

?

What is the best move in Gen IV

  1. Stealth Rock

    61.7%
  2. Substitute

    5.6%
  3. Spore

    8.4%
  4. Taunt

    1.5%
  5. Dragon Dance

    5.9%
  6. U-Turn

    8.4%
  7. Encore

    1.2%
  8. Other

    7.2%
  1. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,588
    There are a huge number of great attacks in pokemon. Certain moves have shaped the metagame, forcing some pokemon into the bottom of the tiering barrell simply because of the threat of the move, while others are completely game breaking when unleashed and can allow one to sweep through an oppnent's team when used at the right time. The list is potentially huge, but I've done my best I think to narrow it down. If anyone has any problems with my list, please tell me!

    Stealth Rock

    This one move has undoubtedly shaped the metagame more than any other (however, the poll is based on which is the BEST move, not which has the greatest metagame impact). Certain pokemon who have the power to destroy the OU tier are barely used because of this move (think Yanmega). Rapid spinners are used solely to counter this move, and Ghosts are frequently used to counter the countering! Easily one of the best moves in Gen IV.

    Substitute

    A fantastic move, it can be absolutely gamebreaking when set up. While it doesn't deal damage by itself, it allows the pokemon to become far more effective at beating the opponent's team. It increases the viability of a number of moves, notably Focus Punch and Leech Seed, and is effectively used by a huge number of sweepers to ease prediction and block status. It is one of the most gamebreaking moves in pokemon when set up.

    Spore

    Argued by many people to be a broken move, spore easily makes the list of options. The ability to incapacitate an opponent and generate a free turn 100% of the time is a huge boost. Indeed, it could be argued that Breloom is viably simply because is has the move (nearly 98% use the move, and few pokemon have a move on their moveset more frequently). Definitely a game changing move when used correctly.

    Taunt

    Taunt is a great support move. It can block pokemon from setting up, and can be used almost singularily to dismantle stall. Again, it is a move that makes certain pokemon a lot more viable due to its inclusion in their movepool. Aerodactyl, while lacking bulk, makes for a great lead simply because it blocks the opponent from setting up Stealth Rock. Azelf is in the same situation, although to a lesser extent (due to having a large number of other useful moves). Taunt is the main reason that mew is the best baton passer in the game, as Ninjask can pass boosts a lot more easily, and yet is easily blocked.

    Dragon Dance

    A move that can be absolutely destructive when used correctly. It was arguably the main reason Salamence was banned (without it, mixmence would be a much smaller threat, due to the lack of the threat of dragon dance). When used once, your opponent generally has to sacrifice something in order to revenge kill. If used twice, you outspeed everything and can destroy the metagame. While admittedly most of the viable users would be threatening without the move, they are a whole lot more threatening with it.

    U-Turn

    While I tried to avoid putting damaging attacks on the list, U-Turn is an exception. It is in my opinion the best damaging attack in the game, as it is 100% used for creating momentum. It puts your opponent in an incredibly tough spot, as no matter what they do, you will have a counter brought in. The added damage is just a bonus.

    Encore

    A highly underrated move, and its usability is hurt due to a lack of good users. It produces a huge amount of free turns, because it forces so many switches. If your opponent tries to set up on you, they are forced to switch, as they risk being set up on themselves. A huge length of time also helps encore, 4-8 turns of incapacitation is something moves like spore wish they could have. Additionally, unlike status moves, it works through substitutes. When used properly, it can change games. It's also my personal choice for best move.

    Honorable Mentions

    Outrage

    The one attacking move that I considered, it has shaped the OU metagame. It hits all types neutrally besides steel, which has largely contributed to the steel centralization. With 180 Base power counting STAB, and 100 accuracy, it is arguably the best attack in the generation.

    Recover/Roost/Slack Off/Wish

    This group of moves are fairly self explanatory. They allow pokemon to essentially live forever if you can't deal 54% or more in a single attack with leftovers factored in. While not at all gamebreaking, the moves nonetheless are incredibly useful.

    Spikes

    Similar to Stealth Rock, except potentially twice as powerful. However, not hitting flying foes and having very limited distribution hurts the move.

    Earthquake

    One of the most powerful moves in the game, it has great distribution and hits the best defensive type in the game super effectively.

    Draco Meteor

    Similar to outrage, Draco Meteor takes advantage of the fantastic coverage of Dragon type attacks and has absolutely huge power. Choice Specs Latias was broken largely because of this move. Fire Blast is a move with widespread distribution and is generally seen along side Draco Meteor because it hits the one type that resists it super effectively, leaving hardly anything safe to switch in.

    Please vote and discuss!
  2. kd24

    kd24 yo daddy musta been a drug dealer? why, cuz you're dope
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    5,279
    Stealth Rock easily, it is without a doubt the best move in the entire game. All you have to do is look through analysis and you will constantly see the phrase "OHKO or 2HKO with Stealth Rock". SR makes Pokemon a whole different game, hampering some pokemon to being unusable, while forcing more quick finishes.

    I also believe it is the reason that DPPT is more team dependant than other gens - Stealth Rock will constantly damage any switch-in, which means if you don't have the right ones, you just die that much quicker.
  3. tawp64

    tawp64

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Messages:
    332
    Stealth Rock almost got my vote, but pretty much anything with DDance (Except Altaria) Rules! Gyarados, Salamence, Dragonite. It influenced the usage of these guys, imagine the game without it!
  4. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    752
    Stealth Rock. Rapid Spin never was that useful, and it nailed some favorites like Articuno, Charizard and Bug/Flyings. A move that changes completely the metagame.
  5. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,074
    No Draco Meteor? That really deserved a spot here.

    Went with Stealth Rock though...if I had to pick something that really shaped this generation, it would either be Stealth Rock or Draco Meteor/Outrage.
  6. Percussionist

    Percussionist

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    286
    I definately have to say Stealth Rock. It is simply a great move, requiring only one turn of set up, and damaging a Pokemon up to 50%, just from entering the battle. That's pretty incredible. It's the sole reason Pokemon like Charizard, Moltres, and Yanmega aren't used more. Having 50% of your HP taken from you just to use the thing is terrible. Any offensive team without it will be criticized to no end, and it allows many offensive Pokemon to turn 2HKOs into OHKOs, which is also great for them.
  7. Adam Lambert

    Adam Lambert

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    547
    You forgot Draco meteor. That move changed the metagame dratically, just like Substitute being a TM, U-turn, and Stealth Rock

    But the best, in my humble opinion, is U-turn. Te ability to switch to a pokemon as they switch while doing damage is undoubtedly the best ability.
  8. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Maize And Blue Badge Set :)
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2010
    Messages:
    2,256
    Yeah...Draco Meteor should have been on there, but SR is definitely the best move in the game.

    Spore and Sub are close seconds.
  9. ala

    ala
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    4,013
    Stealth Rock, runner up being Draco Meteor/Outrage for getting so much shit banned.
  10. coolking49

    coolking49

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,800
    draco meteor and outrage are the gamebreaking moves, as until just now the metagame was always dragon mased, and these moves are why. honerable mention goes to Uturn and SR
  11. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    Stealth Rock. Nuff said.

    Yeah, Draco Meteor is pretty cool, and Spore is still awesome, but SR shapes the metagame.
  12. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    Stealth Rock. Without it, Starmie can't OHKO 4HP Tyranitar in Sandstorm with Life Orb Hydro Pump. Staraptor and Aerodactyl and Infernape appreciates Stealth Rock out of most notable Life Orb users, as well as pretty much any Pokemon.
  13. Volmise

    Volmise .:The Firefly Light:.
    is an Artist Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    208
    Almost voted for Stealth Rock, but Spore got it in the end.

    Both are very lethal, especially when used right. Plus Stealth Rock helps some of my favorites KO potential threats.

    Spore just because Breloom is an absolute beast. (My opinion.)
  14. TheValkyries

    TheValkyries

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,837
    Technically none of those are attacks.

    If you wanted best move, I'd say Draco Meteor. Yes, I'd even take it over Stealth Rock. Draco Metoer has been the deciding factor in two Suspect Tests to vote Uber. Meanwhile, Stealth Rock has never made anything broken, nor prevented it from being banned.
  15. Gigalith

    Gigalith

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    53
    Stealth Rock. It has caused Pokemon that would be OU to be UU or BL (Yanmega and even Staraptor). Any Pokemon weak to Rock would have to try not to switch in a lot, you would need a Rapid Spinner on your team to get rid of the rocks, and while doing so, you may end up losing a Pokemon in the process.

    Spore comes in 2nd. Luckily only Breloom has access to the move. Parasect does too but Parasect is shit.
  16. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast I run with the wolves of the wicked
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,353
    Draco Meteor, Rock Polish. This should have been all 4th gen moves.
  17. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,682
    Stealth Rock. Have you ever seen a team without a user of SR that didn't specifically not use because the trainer hates it? It turns so many 2HKOs into OHKOs and 3HKOs into 2HKOs and is the reason Salamence stayed OU for so long. Taunt (and to a lesser extent Encore) are really only only good as a way to counter Pokemon that use it.

    Others:
    Substitute: Eases prediction and protects against status but that's about it.

    Spore: Only 2 useful Pokemon get it, so even though it's a great move, you can get around it.

    Dragon Dance: Probably the absolute best set up move, since it gives you just enough speed and boosts your attack as well. The physical special split was what made it great this gen.

    U-turn: Pretty easy to switch into since the only Pokemon that gets STAB on it and uses it often is Scizor. It can get Pokemon a free switch in but a lot of Pokemon won't take much damage from it and will recover it back with Leftovers.

    Outrage: Extremely destructive, but whatever uses it could go down the next turn because of things like Scizor and Ice Shard.

    Recover: It's a good move that's often the deciding factor of whether a Pokemon's OU or UU but everything useful gets Rest that can be used for recovery.

    Spikes: Easily avoided by some of the top threats and takes 3x as long to set up as SR. Only really useful on Stall teams.

    Earthquake: Best non-drawback move (besides maybe Ice Beam) but still pretty easy to avoid.

    Draco Meteor: Allowed Mixmence to 2HKO most Pokemon and kept Latias and Latios in Ubers. IMO, it's the absolute best attacking move, provided you get STAB on it (because without STAB, it's pretty useless).
  18. Colonel Darren

    Colonel Darren

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    495
    My vote went for Dragon Dance. It, along with a physical/special split, is the main reason for the revival of Gyrados from Generation 3, and it's likely one of the best, if not dead on THE best, setup moves in the game, bar none. Salamence/Rayquaza/Gyrados were the feared users of this move, and with good reason, as it becomes very hard to kill one of them after a use or two.

    My runner-up would be Stealth Rock, as it has seen the fall of Bug/Flying/Fire/Ice Pokemon without resistances, and is one of the main checks to several -very- dangerous foes such as Charizard, Yanmega, Ho-Oh, and even other Poke like Salamence and Rayquaza.
  19. Tory

    Tory

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    98
    5. Surf - You got to have Surf to get those assholes off your turf. Ludicolo I enjoyed with Surf, I use Rain Dance for Swift Swim ability, increase the speed and STAB to put into a rampage. Rest+Roar+Sleep Talk+Surf with Pressure ability will never get old with Suicune.

    4. Substitute - Still kicks ass in the 4th Generation of Pokemon. Ninjask & Zapdos were the best for me. With Zapdos, you can use Charge Beam to increase your special attack, and Baton Pass it. It was fucking amazing as hell. Other than that, Baton Pass that for Speed. Bad news is... I believe Substitute will lack more in the 5th Gen due to new effects like triple battles, and the ability to change types.

    3. Dragon Dance & Outrage (tie) - I don't even know which one I like better. But for me with Dragon Dance + Outrage, Dragonite > Salamace. My Dragonite was more likely to survive, and sometimes even 6-0 teams.

    2. Stealth Rock - You can spell Stealth Rock with out "steal." You steal opponents HP for later in the game, but you couldn't beat this at Garchomp. That was a problem, but what moves don't have problems with certain Pokemon anyway?

    1. U-Turn - Stealth Rock was the shit. It knocked out Articuno, Ho-oh, Moltres, you know the rest... But I got to say hello to U-Turn. Back in 2008, the main Pokemon I use with U-Turn is Azelf, in the lead team. I know today, people use Stealth Rock Azelf in lead, but I honestly prefer to lead it with U-Turn. Later in the battles, I destroyed Alakazam, Celebi, Jirachi, and even Tyranatar. Other Pokemon I like with U-Turn are Crobat & Zapdos.
  20. doomvendingmachine

    doomvendingmachine
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,075
    I helped nails make some of this list, and i told him draco meteor should have been on there. : )

    However, i do think the best move is listed and it is stealth rock. There is an entire class of leads (suicide leads, for our "slower" smogonites) devoted to putting sr down, preventing the oponnents sr from gettting up, and then MAYBE doing some dammge to the other pokemon before going down/being saved for death fodder. In effect, the thought behind suicide leads is that their users values sr being on the opponents side/sr not being down on thiers so highly that they would rather start out practiacally at 5-6. Now that's a powerful move.

    EDIT: Also, although it wouldn't be my number one choice, I would have liked to have seen close combat be on the list, or at least in the honorable mentions. A base 120 100% accuracy move from a great attcking type with no drawbacks (well, minmial) that inhibit sweeping? Yes pleaz.
  21. Sixonesix

    Sixonesix
    is a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,604
    Spore, definitely. It's equally devastating in singles and doubles.
  22. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,253
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that i think Bullet Punch takes it. While SR is good, it doesn't really do much as an attack.

    Second place is tied between Spore and Substitute, because they both allow setup: Spore guarantees 1 turn setup, Substitute is riskier but can possibly afford 2 turns if you're lucky. Then just Swords Dance or Nasty Plot away.

    But none of these set up moves would be any good without a Priority attack on the receiver to ward off faster threats. Bullet Punch is what arguably brought Scizor up to top usage in OU. Technician boosted Swords Danced STAB Bullet Punch is ridiculously powerful.

    While admittedly, Extremespeed has higher base power, it's blocked by ghosts, and Scizor has the option to carry U-Turn as well (which is a pretty good third best, in my opinion). So oeverall, difinitely Bullet Punch, if only because without it, lots of setup moves lose their potency.

    In the same vein, Ice Shard gets mention, though not as good because really only Mamoswine and Weavile use it, and mostly just to revenge kill 4x weak Dragons.

    Close Combat also gets mention, just because you couldn't pull off a Lucario sweep without it, and you can scare off TTar. Same goes for Earthquake, though with the exception that Earthquake does nothing to Flying types.
  23. Taylor

    Taylor stardust infinite
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    Stealth Rock, for sure. A staple for the 4th Generation of Pokemon. Stealth Rock's that good that often people are so recklessly determined to set them up that they often pass up the chance to KO in order to have them in play.
  24. SMZ

    SMZ

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,605
    Stealth Rock gets my vote; it made such an impact on the metagame, like no other move.
  25. ARandomDude

    ARandomDude

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    396
    Spore: If I could stick any move on every Pokemon on my team, it would be Spore.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)