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The Dark Horse Project IV

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Birkal, Oct 2, 2012.

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  1. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    I had a feeling that my record won't last long after seeing the new rules; good job anyway, I had my moment of glory and that's enough xD
  2. Broken Wing

    Broken Wing

    Joined:
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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Raw Power
    Hall of Fame Standing: none
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Porygon2
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1935 ± 62

    Specially defensive porygon 2 is has been pretty good at cheeking all most all special threats in the game right now. Almost to bronze, hope I can make it further.
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

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    8,580
    Much blood has been shed in the past day... ninelol lost his Rotom-H to scampy, and ganj4lf has been dropped out of HoF ;-; (don't give up!), because of Lady Alex.

    However, I'd really like to applaud Molk, a double-platinum HoFer! That is probably the greatest accomplishment second to becoming a Grandmaster >:D
  4. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

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    Hey dhp-posting from phone. Internet has been on the blink at home, so I'll update when I get back to residence at 22:00 edt. Keep up the laddering!
  5. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

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    oh yes, shed the blood of my competitors while I observe from the throne of a grandmaster...

    thanks for your constant vigilance in keeping the HoF/signups list updated, guys
  6. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Are we allowed to have more than 1 sign-up active at a time?
  7. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

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    well that sucked, stupid bus was like 15 minutes behind schedule and highway traffic at 9pm from toronto to waterloo is WAY worse than people would expect... but i am finally back and have updated the thread!

    lady alex: hmm i don't see why not so i'll accommodate it, although i also don't see why you'd be laddering with two dark horses separately and simultaneously.

    and lol lavos has a point, he HAS been gm for a while. nobody going to make a run on his throne? nobody?
  8. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Ok, great. I'll go ahead and sign up then. I'm satisfied with three runs, so this is more for giggles than anything else at this point.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Bloody Princess
    Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Chandelure
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: None

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Empress Alexandria
    Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Suicune, Deoxys-D
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: None
  9. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

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    Ok, I'm here to dethrone Lavos. Lgi!

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Kasugami
    Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Dog (Stoutland)
    Current Ladder Standing: 2412
    [​IMG]

    Screenshot (open)
    [​IMG]


    The team I used (open)

    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Whirlwind
    - Slack Off


    Dog (Stoutland) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - Wild Charge
    - Pursuit


    Magnezone @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 SAtk / 108 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spe
    - Volt Switch
    - Sleep Talk
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Flash Cannon


    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 SAtk / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp


    Latias (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 152 HP / 172 SAtk / 184 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Recover


    Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 29 HP
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Spear
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?

    I made this team back during round 1 of The World Cup Of Pokemon and I got the core of Stoutland (as the main sweeper) & Magnezone (traps steels that resist Stoutland's STAB) from my friend: Ripamon. The core works amazingly and I instantly fell in love with Stoutland, with it's 518 speed under the sand - which outspeeds pretty much the entire metagame - it's ridiculous power, bulk and decent coverage; Stoutland can spell doom for any team. I decided to use it for this challenge because I was able to easily adapt the team to function well in the BW2 metagame and this team has quickly become my favourite team ever.

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?

    Well, outside of Magnezone to trap steels, A sand inducer was essential to Stoutland's success. I had a choice between Hippowdon and Tyranitar, but I chose Hippowdon because Tyranitar gave me bad synergy, as it would just give me a 3rd pokemon weak to fighting, but the main reason is: Hippowdon is a much more reliable sand inducer than Tyranitar, because of it's reliable recovery move, superior defensive typing and not being trapped by Dugtrio.

    I definetly needed some water resists, I chose Specially Defensive Rotom-W, because not only did it resist water and hit water types back with it's super-effective Volt Switch but it also checked / countered half the biggest threats in the current metagame and it's easily the second best Tornadus-t counter, second only to Specially Defensive Jirachi. Specially Defensive Rotom-W was the most amazing set I've ever used and it just functions so well in the current metagame. I still felt like a I needed another water resist, because a few pokemon, such as Keldeo, were a bit too much for Rotom-W to handle alone and something to check sun would be great. I chose Latias, it meets all the criteria and it took advantage of Magnezone's steel-type removing capabilities, letting it spam Draco Meteor to its heart's content.

    Lastly, I needed some sort of wall breaker to aid Stoutland, my team was also rather weak to a few pokes like Breloom, even with Latias and Sleep Talk on Magnezone I at least needed one more check. Things like Sub Toxic Gliscor were a pain and if I managed to somehow lose Hippowdon to a weather team and lose the weather war, dragons didn't have much trouble sweeping the rest of my team, as I lose the speed needed for my revenge killer (Stoutland) and Hippowdon was the only thing that can tank multiple hits. I decided to use Mamoswine and it worked perfectly and the team was born. This was a very quick version of how I made the team, but I will be making an RMT of this team sometime in the forseeable future if you're interested in a much more in depth look.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?

    Tbh, I almost always build around a "dark horse" pokemon when making new teams, this is because when using standard, run of the mill pokemon and sets in tourney battles you have no tricks up your sleeve, no suprise factor. If you lack these important elements in your teams you'll often find the battle's outcome being decided by hax and team matchup. Although the ladder's different from tourney battles, I pretty much only ever make teams for tourney battles... yeah. To answer the question: for the most part I find battling with dark horse pokemon easier, but they're both pretty equal, using a dark horse pokemon has suprise factor whereas the standard, commonly used pokemon are used often for a reason, but there's always a few underrated pokemon down in the depths of the usage list that can destroy everything with enough support.

    How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?

    Reaching the hall of fame was rather easy for me and I was really amazed with the sheer brilliance of Stoutland as well as a few other amazing pokemon I discoverd along the way, eg. Tank Latias & Specially Defensive Rotom-W. The best advice I can give to anyone trying to get to the top with their Dark Horse pokemon is to not go out of your way to try and make a lower tier pokemon work in ou, test some stuff out and then use something you know can function well in OU.
  10. scampy

    scampy

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    I'd like to answer Birkal's list of questions, too. A big thanks to him, alkinesthetase, and everyone else involved in the project. It's a lot of fun. : )

    Show Hide


    How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?

    I initially started with the combination of Tinkerbell Celebi and Choice Band Terrakion as a basis for my team. Celebi is able to lure and paralyse many Pokemon who might impede a Terrakion rampage, such as Latios, Tornadus-T, Scizor, and Genesect. She can also give Terrakion a safe switch-in with U-turn. Celebi gives me a general Water sponge to aid against Drizzle teams, while Terrakion is a good response to Drought and Genesect.

    In truth, I had no idea that Celebi was a dark horse! I haven't played much at all recently, so I thought Celebi was still top tier material.

    I chose my other dark horses (Rotom-H and Blastoise) purely as an extension to the Celebi-Terrakion combo, so I'll outline my reasoning in the next question.

    How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?

    For the next team member, I decided that the most important thing was to have a hard counter to Genesect and Tornadus-T. Heatran would have filled the role to a degree, but I was edgy about picking him due to his lack of type synergy with Terrakion. I also hate being weak to Dugtrio. The only Pokemon left who could counter both Genesect and Tornadus-T would be Zapdos and Rotom-H. I decided upon Rotom-H, as it also had the ability to tank random Pokemon in Drought teams, and to somewhat address Thundurus-T. It also gave me a cute Volt-Turn core between it and Celebi.

    After I added Scizor as an obligatory Steel Pokemon, I needed a Rapid Spinner, due to the Volt-Turn shenanigans and Rotom-H's weakness to Rock. Under a different account where I experimented with alternate builds to this team, my first choice was Acid Spray Tentacruel. It was pretty hilarious set, and it worked for me to a degree, but it wasn't quite right for the team. Tentacruel doesn't give me the freedom to stay in on Landorus-T as a spinner, and it is trapped by Dugtrio.

    So, I tested out Blastoise. Although it has less overall defensive potential than Tentacruel, not being forced out by Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Donphan was extremely helpful to me. I added Dragon Tail to the set just as a response to random Baton Pass spam, but the combination of this Taunt-immune phazing move and Rapid Spin ended up forming a large part of my game plan against Deoxys-D heavy offense, and against these teams Blastoise ends up being the most critical member. I'm not going to say that Blastoise is the best spinner in OU by any means, but he fits my team like a glove.

    Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?

    I think most people are used to dealing with Celebi, even if she currently is a dark horse, so using her didn't net me the element of surprise or anything. She's quite simply a good Pokemon! I wouldn't really recommend anything like a walling set or Nasty Plot in the current metagame though, Tinkerbell is where it's at.

    Rotom-H's obscurity worked in my favour as I was laddering, as people often underestimated its special bulk, and many of the top threats in OU are unable to break Rotom-H. In particular, Rotom-H is hard for Drought teams to dispose of, gives a rock solid response to Genesect-Dugtrio cores, and counters Tornadus-T. It's simply a Pokemon who fits well into the current metagame.

    Blastoise was consistent Pokemon. I think some teams which rely upon eliminating Rapid Spin users evidently have trouble with Blastoise, due to its lack of exploitable weaknesses. As I outlined before, it helps immensely in dealing with Deoxys-D. I don't think Blastoise is superior to any other Rapid Spin user, so I wouldn't say he made my laddering experience "easier" in the sense I was using a better Pokemon than my opponents, but he fills a weird niche in my team that can't be performed by any other Pokemon.

    Plus it's Blastoise.

    (For Hall of Fame members only) How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a Dark Horse Pokemon on your team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with Dark Horse Pokemon?

    Laddering was fairly easy. My win rate was pretty consistent, something I'd definitely attribute to the dark horses as I'm not the greatest of players. The dark horses allowed me to explore unusual team constructs which threw off my opponents. Rotom-H in particular makes team building much easier, as it checks so many top threats for you and has good synergy with Rapid Spin users.
  11. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    387
    Made platinum! :D

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Aoraki
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Victini & Cresselia
    Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking:
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Sets:

    [​IMG]

    Victini @ Choice Band
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - V-Create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - U-turn
    - Brick Break

    Despite the success of Gamester's and Lavos' sun teams, Victini still hasn't really caught on with the general OU community yet, which perplexes me. Victini's V-Create is bar none the strongest attack in the game. Unless your name is Heatran or Politoed, prepare for a hurting.

    [​IMG]

    Cresselia @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Moonlight

    This beauty can wall entire teams once their Tyranitar/Scizor/Genesect is dead. Cresselia is an incredible Pokemon on sun teams as it hard-counters many of the biggest threats to them, such as DDNite and RP Landorus-I.

    Note: I had updated my original post with the change - the registration list still has me listed as State Angel using Sawsbuck.

    EDIT: Here's the full team.

    Show Hide
    Ninetales (F) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 SDef / 68 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 30 Def / 30 SDef / 30 Spd / 3 Atk
    - Flamethrower
    - Hidden Power [Rock]
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    Dugtrio (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Arena Trap
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 21 HP
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Reversal
    - Memento

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 20 Atk / 236 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Volt Switch
    - Rapid Spin

    Victini @ Choice Band
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - V-create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - U-turn
    - Brick Break

    Venusaur (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 252 SAtk / 184 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 Spd
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb

    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Psyshock
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Moonlight
  12. Master of the Six Kings

    Master of the Six Kings

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    790
    ^Glad i didnt get too far with Victini than. Ugh.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: SwampMage
    Hall of Fame Standing: None
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Swampert, Mismagius
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown! Notta
  13. Eranu

    Eranu

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
    382
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: VwCaddy
    Hall of Fame Standing: Bronze
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Ambipom
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: None.
  14. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    6,483
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Burning Water
    Hall of Fame Standing: None
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Rotom-H, Amoonguss
    Current Ladder Standing: 1000
    __________________
  15. Myzozoa

    Myzozoa Throw-up on the internet, or get off on TV
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Venemoth Pwns You
    Hall of Fame Standing: IDK what this is, halp.
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Venemoth and Mew, who uses Hydreigon seriously.
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 0, since i haven't started yet

    I may not have read the OP.
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

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    Alakazam and Hydreigon cannot be chosen because they have more than 5% usage.
  17. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

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    ^ lol myzo =P alaka and hydreigon aren't dark horses (hoo boy not even close) but venomoth obviously is and so is mew, so i'll take it. quick summary in case you didn't read the 4 OPs: hall of fame is for anyone who achieves a certain rank on PS OU leaderboard, and a certain glicko2 rating. only one of each dark horse can be in the hall of fame at a given time, and thus only one user of that horse as well. if you beat someone else's ladder peak and ranking with a dark horse that they hall-of-famed, you will take the hall of fame position from them.
  18. Molk

    Molk mfw zoroark
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    RU Leader

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    Messages:
    3,440
    Venomoth is cool and all but every team ive made falls apart when venomoth dies so im changing my dark horse.... for now :3. Plus, ive always wanted to try this guy

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: GOML HAXORUS
    Hall of Fame Standing: Platinum
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Darmanitan
    Current Ladder Standing: none yet

    calcs for fun

    band kyurem-B outrage vs max/max+ gliscor: 723 Atk vs 383 Def & 354 HP (120 Base Power): 244 - 288 (68.93% - 81.36%)


    sheer force boosted band darmanitan flare blitz vs max/max+ gliscor: 624 Atk vs 383 Def & 354 HP (160 Base Power): 280 - 330 (79.10% - 93.22%)

    Free kyurem-B, enslave darmanitan
  19. TROP

    TROP This is it, baby. Hold me.
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    Metang is really bad and makes me lose because 5 fillers(at least Ambipom allowed me to set up with mence), so scrapping that alt and trying something new that has been on my must try list for a long time.

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Geppetto
    Hall of Fame Standing: Silver
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Shiftry
    Current Ladder Standing: none yet
  20. Eranu

    Eranu

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2011
    Messages:
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    Updated my first post. Got a little higher with deoxys-d. I'll try to make it higher later.
    Also, i noticed a lot of teams aren't in the right 'color' since i thought you had to make top 10 for platinum class and top 50 for silver.
  21. alkinesthetase

    alkinesthetase <@dtc> every day with alk is a bad day
    is a Smogon IRC SOp Alumnus

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    ^ the plan pocket's taken for hof is that the user, and all their dark horses, will be dropped in the highest tier that the user has reached so far, so for example molk has made plat like twice thus ALL his horses will be in the plat section. he only made gold with weavile but we'll leave it up there as well because it was molk's horse (i think pocket colored the names of weavile and what not in the gold tier color to indicate that they were technically of a lower rank)

    however if there are any users whose highest-tiered horse's recorded peaks actually do not match up with where they've been placed, please drop us a line so we can look into correcting it!

    EDIT: @ uvood, anything is up for grabs if you're willing to ladder with it far enough. the current holder of celebi is molk, who's made plat with it (check his peak on the hof page). if you can beat his peak, celebi is yours, so it's up to you
  22. Uvood

    Uvood

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    142
    Oki, Articuno is finally being dropped. I managed to get above 1700 ranking with my Swampert and Articuno team, but it became incresingly more difficult to keep stealth rock down as I got higher. I changed up the team a bit, but Articuno is only decent, no way of getting around that fact. Its too hard walled by Heatran if you don't opt for Hidden Power Ground, and hidden power ground's only use is against Heatran, because Hurricane is more powerful in every other scenario. The most used steel types are Gene and Scizor. which you will be hurricaning regardless. Not to mention how slow Articuno is, which really sets it back. Though I'm happy with how far I did get before I dropped it.

    Swampert however is another story. Swampert is really good, with choice band, he hits surprisingly hard. He is also a great switch in to Tyranitar(who he 1hkos with three of his moves). Only problem is prediction of course, but that's the case with any choiced pokemon. Swampert I definitely recommend, he's hits hard and can take quite alot of hits before going down, as long as you play carefully with him.

    Is Celebi up for grabs btw? I'd love to take my fav poke through this challenge if it is, I already have a team ready for it :)
  23. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    539
    New signup post since I'm switching horse and name:
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: -273.15c
    Hall of Fame Standing: None. (Yet!)
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Lapras
    Current Ladder Standing: 1906 88 2020 ± 81 (provisional) 21-5-0
    EDIT so I was doing excellent, up to Bronze ranking but I then lost to a bullshit baton pass team and dropped a ridiculous number of points. Will try to get back, but this isn't doing anything but strengthening my hatred of Spore...
    EDIT 2: Sigh... 3 games in a row +1 for winning... I really don't know how people get so high when things are stacked so heavily against you past the first few matches...
  24. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    @Uvood- aww, I was really rooting for your success with Articuno. Did you try running dugtrio on your team to mitigate Articuno's Heatran weakness?
  25. Uvood

    Uvood

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    142
    No, was running it on a rain team, so it was supposed be a what kept Heatran at bay. Though Articuno's real problem is either finding a free turn for Agility and being so slow. I kinda asked myself, why not use Tornadus? Not such a severe weakness to Stealth rock, more speed and a much easier to spam Hurricane, that is also more powerful. Not to say I Articuno did not work, but there are just better options, it's outclassed at sub roosting by Moltres, sub Hurricane by Moltres and at sweeping it's outclassed by Tornadus.

    That's not even mentioning that Articuno is murdered by Scizor without substitute XD. You really should be using either Moltres or Tornadus for Hurricane spam(or Volc), Moltres is also walled by Heatran, but can take on other Steel types quite well, not to mention being good against sun teams, being able to switch in on things. Articuno is so difficult to get into play, due to basically no resist's. It has ground immunity, but what earthquake user does not have stone edge?

    Though, as I mentioned, Swampert is awesome, some of the players I went up against got real confused when it was in play XD.

    If you wanna mess around with the team I used, I can give it to you :). It was by no means perfect, Dugtrio might be able to help out.

    This became a nice little wall lol XD. Tldr: stealth rock and low speed screws with Articuno's chances at being any better than decent in OU, you are usually better of using something else for Hurricane spamming, for Sub roost toxic stall, Zapdos or Moltres does it better due to better speed.

    Edit: thank you for rooting for me though :D. I did get decently high up ^^.
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