The RU Viability Ranking Thread

Discussion in 'BW RU' started by Molk, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2 ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つDruddigon
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,213
    I disagree with uxie being top. It's lack of offensive presence and subpar Psychic typing offsets it's good bulk. I'm leaning towards Mid-S rank.



    Escavalier has the problem of having a limited movepool. While megahorn hits extremely hard, the only other notable options it has are iron head, pursuit and return. A mega weakness to the common fire types doesn't help either. I say it's a low S-rank. Apart from that the list is pretty good.
  2. Swamp-Rocket

    Swamp-Rocket screw economics!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,289
    Top
    Nidoqueen, Entei

    • Nidoqueen is excellent in the metagame, as its coverage and power is phenomenal, as indicated by its recent coming into Suspect testing. Its bulk is also suprisingly stellar, and it really has no true counters although there do exist some Pokemon that can OHKO it, but none of them can really switch in without taking tons of damage. Its in general very difficult to wear down as well, as it is immune to Toxic, Life Orb, and Thunder Wave, all of which are usually detrimental for a sweeper. Aside from being somewhat slow and having some unfortunate weaknesses, it is otherwise almost flawless.
    • I don't think many people will agree on this but Entei is deserving of being among the Top of S, despite only really having one set. Without a proper bulky resist, its Flare Blitz will take something down without a doubt. Entei has a lot of great perks, including a STAB move that is terrorizing to switch into as it has a chance OHKO everything that is faster than it after Stealth Rock bar Typhlosion and Uxie (Aerodactyl and Archeops have a small chance of surviving), and Extreemespeed that helps it stop sweepers that have taken a beating but need that extra push, coverage moves that take down what it needs to, a suprisingly great bulk, immunity to burns, and the capability to special attack to a degree, and on top of it all it is far from slow. A weakness to Stealth Rock and recoil damage is unfortunate (though Entei has an enormous HP to take recoil), but the fact that it OHKOs so many Pokemon with just Flare Blitz while taking their hits somewhat well regardless is incredible. Even Defensive Slowking can't get away without taking arond 40% damage from this thing's Flare Blitz (a lot more considering 2 hits, meaning slightly weakened ones lose!) and the specs version gets 2HKOed, a testament to its power. Although there are quite a few Pokemon that wall it, a lot of them aren't really that common in the tier.
    Mid
    Uxie, Sceptile, Slowking, Druddigon

    • Uxie is probably the best support Pokemon in RU and has a lot of sets that it can run, all of which are very effective, and it is also one of the bulkiest Pokemon in the metagame. Countering Nidoqueen is also nice (ie switching in to nearly everything and defeating it) but it has some flaws that I dislike. This is pretty much because of its lack of recovery and some annoying weaknesses such as Pursuit, U-Turn, and other things. Uxie is very good, but not quite at the top of S-tier.
    • Sceptile is a freaking monster. It can do a lot to the opponent and can attack on the physical and special sides to some success. Its Leaf Storm is insanely powerful, it can clean up the foes team easily thanks to its great speed stat, and a suprsing amount of other things. Steel-types also can't wall it thanks to Focus Blast. However, Sceptile's main flaw is that it is really frail and it doesn't have the highest Special Attack, so it deserves mid.
    • Slowking is probably the most reselient Pokemon in the tier, and has that thing that Uxie would kill for - instant recovery. Regenerator is also a huge plus, and this thing has an absolutely massive movepool to take advantage of its offensive and defensive capabilities. Its slow, but that is what Trick Room is for. The reason why it doesn't really fit the bill for the top is some unfortunate weaknesses shared with Uxie and also some special weaknesses such as Electric and Grass are irritating since they are both fairly common attacking types.
    • Druddigon is also another Pokemon that is very powerful. Being a Dragon-type, not much can wall it off the bat, and its typing is also amazing for defensive purposes, as it resists the STABs of a lot of the Pokemon listed thus far (and isn't hit hard by their coverage moves either). However, being extremely slow and depending on a locked move is fairly annoying, but its raw power (and ability to support its team with some of the odder sets) make up for this mostly.
    Low


    Escavalier, Moltres
    • Escavalier is an odd case. Immediatley, the fact that it has 120 Base Power move and 135 Base Attack along with a Steel-typing stands out. However, its so dang slow that even Slowking can outspeed it (and OHKO it with Fire Blast), has that annoying weakness to Fire, and really isn't as bulky as it may seem sometimes. It doesn't have quite the defenses to stand up to some of the stronger moves in the tier and often finds itself 2HKOed, sometimes OHKOed (going off the fact that a Sap Sipper CB Bouff 2HKOs it easily though that thing is a strong mofo). Regardless, it is still fairly bulky and hilariously powerful, and aside from its speed problems it does come with a lot of resistances, but I think it deserves low.
    • Moltres is extremely dangerous, but that weakness to Stealth Rock is deliberating. While Entei can live without a Rapid Spinner, Moltres can't. That means you've already got 2 of your moveslots taken up, and while Kabutops and Cryogonal are both good Pokemon, its not like I always want to include them on my team. It also means that you can't add it to your team halfheartedly like some other S-Rank Pokemon, as you WILL need a Rapid Spinner, which may take up another slot you may not have room for. Its also a bit slow. However, the raw power of Moltres (125 Base Attack with 2 120 Base Power STAB moves yes please) makes up for it, but barely enough to keep it in S-Rank.
  3. Nails

    Nails I wanna be a red panda when I grow up
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,518
    Vertical position is scaled according to overall utility and effectiveness.

    Queen - It's queen.

    Entei Uxie - Best revenge killer in the tier, and the best supporter in the tier.
    Sceptile - Fast strong, enough bulk to switch in vs the right mon.

    Druddigon - Really good supporter or really strong wallbreaker, and strong priority always helps any strongmon. Glare is like twave except better.
    Slowking Escav - Anti-meta mons; slowking is on teams either to counter Entei or Queen + Moltres 8/10 times, Escav is on teams because there are a lot of mons that can't hit it (all of the psychic types that are around to kill queen).

    Moltres - You have to prepare for it or you die. If you do prepare for it it's not really a huge threat.
  4. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    944
    Yeah I'd at least throw Escavalier in mid, one amazing thing about this poke is that it's easily implementable on defensive teams thanks to its nice/defensive typing but it comes with the rare added benefit of having an assload of power, so if you can get it in you can just Megahorn and tear holes through offensive teams [Magmortar is 2HKOd by it etc].
  5. Molk

    Molk Trop Ur A Faget
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,979
    Here are my opinions on the current S tier Pokemon.

    TOP

    Nidoqueen and Slowking

    I dont think anyone will disagree with Nidoqueen being in top S rank, its easily one of the best Pokemon in the tier and probably the most controversial Pokemon in the history of RU overall (just look at the suspect discussion x_x). Her excellent type coverage combined with her ability in Sheer Force make her an excellent wallbreaker, which is further augmented by her resistance to passive damage such as Toxic, Stealth Rock, and Thunder Wave, as well as her useful resistances to Electric and Bug (she has quite a few other resistances too, but most of the other Pokemon that carry those moves usually run a way to deter Nidoqueen anyway, making it sort of a moot point.


    Slowking is the very definition of "metagame defining", in my opinion. Slowking's been around for a very long time, and except for very early on when Yanmega and co. ran rampant, its been one of the, if not the most influential Pokemon in the tier. Slowking is capable of running a ton of sets such as its standard defensive set, Choice Specs, Offensive Trick Room, and even Calm Mind, making him a great option for offensive and defensive teams alike. Slowking has excellent defensive stats all around and a good support movepool, which when combined with its cool typing and one of the best abilities in the game: Regenerator makes him the single best pivot in the entire tier, and a major roadblock for multiple threats such as Entei, Moltres (needs to be slightly more careful due to hurricane), Hitmonlee, Emboar, and Cryogonal. Although the metagame isnt as kind to it as it was in BW1, i feel that Slowking's countless positives outweigh that enough for it to be placed in top S rank.

    MID

    Uxie, Entei, Sceptile, Druddigon, and Escavalier

    Uxie is gifted with what might possibly be the most expansive support movepool in the entire metagame, including moves such as Stealth Rock, U-turn, Dual Screens, Toxic, Thunder Wave, Memento, Heal Bell, Trick Room, Rain Dance, and Sunny Day, as well as some of the highest defensive stats in the game, sitting at 75/130/130. These two traits make Uxie hands down the best pure support Pokemon in the tier, almost always being able to do its job (sometimes multiple times per match!), and setting up win conditions for its teammates quite easily. Not to mention Uxie's good speed and excellent defensive stats also make it the perfect candidate for a deadly SubCM set, which is one of the most underrated yet effective sets in the current metagame in my opinion.

    Entei is, simply put, an absolute monster, and one of the main reasons why almost every successful team needs to run a Fire resistance. The power of Entei's Flare Blitz is truely a sight to behold, cleanly 2HKOing almost every Pokemon that doesnt resist it, while Extremespeed makes Entei an excellent revenge killer, capable of picking off a slew of threatening Pokemon before they can do too much damage such as Accelgor, Galvantula, Sceptile, Absol, and Lilligant. As Cherub Agent mentioned before, the main and possibly only reason its not top S rank is because of how quickly its worn down from a combination of Flare Blitz recoil and hazards damage, making its lifespan quite short if the Entei user doesnt play well (also i guess a lot of common Pokemon such as Slowking, Qwilfish, Druddigon and Poliwrath wall it, which further hinders Entei from being top S rank material.


    Aside from being literally 2hko'd by Stoutland's Fire Fang, Escavalier is quite the juggernaut in the RU tier. Nothing wants to take a Megahorn off of that huge base 135 Attack Stat, and while speed isnt its strong suit, Escavalier's natural bulk and good defensive typing more than make up for the speed issue, granting it free switch ins on a ton of common Pokemon such as Uxie, Hp Rock Lilligant and Sceptile, Choice locked Druddigon, and Cryogonal. Escavalier also happens to be one of the best hail checks in the tier, being immune to the residual damage caused by Hail thanks to Overcoat, while using its natural bulk and resistance to Blizzard to neutralize Hail abusers such as Glaceon and Walrein with ease. Escavalier's low Speed stat still gets in the way occasionally, as well as its somewhat limited type coverage, but its positives certainly qualify it for mid S rank imo.

    Sceptile is one of the best sweepers RU has to offer, and its easy to see why, Sceptile can run both physical and Special sets effectively, having close to 0 counters between the Special Attacker and Swords Dance sets. Sceptile is also one of the fastest Pokemon in the game, outrunning almost the entire unboosted metagame without a boost, making it that much harder for the opponent to deal with it. The main thing keeping Sceptile out of top S rank imo is its fraility, especially on the physical side, 70/65/85 isnt winning any awards defensively, and Sceptile often has trouble switching in against more offensive teams in fear of simply being OHKO'd on the switch in without accomplishing anything. Sceptile's fraility also makes it more vulnerable to priority such as Entei's Extremespeed, which can stop a Sceptile sweep prematurely quite easily.

    As for Druddigon, its a bulky Dragon-type with insane damage potential, a great offensive movepool and access to Stealth Rock, arguably the best move in the game in a metagame where FWG cores are incredibly common, what did you expect? I could say more, but its like 4 in the morning and i think its pretty self explanatory tbh :x.


    LOW

    Moltres

    As Cherub Agent, Nails, and Swamp Rocket mentioned in their posts, while Moltres is easily one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier when left unchecked due to its raw power and great dual STAB, that Stealth Rock weakness is incredibly crippling, and prevents Moltres from being top S or even mid S imo. Stealth Rock is on almost every team, and while its relatively easy to keep Stealth Rock off the field in RU simply because of how good Kabutops and Cryogonal are at spinning, it still needs a bit more support than the other S rank Pokemon to function to its full potential, and thats what prevents it from being any higher than low S rank (tbh if Stealth Rock didnt exist Moltres would probably be bannable, lol).
  6. DrRobotnik

    DrRobotnik

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    698
    TOP:
    Nidoqueen, Slowking, Entei

    MID:
    The rest

    LOW:
    Moltres (still think this should be A but whatever)

  7. Silvershadow234

    Silvershadow234 :]]]]]
    is a Pre-Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    695
    TOP:

    Nidoqueen: Nidoqueen has amazing coverage, power with Sheer Force and doesn't take that much from residual damage either thanks to Sheer Force, immunity to Toxic and Thunder Wave and a stealth rock resistance. Nidoqueen also has pretty solid bulk, and good resistances to fighting, electric and bug.

    Slowking: Slowking is easily the best glue pokemon in ru. It is incredibly versatile, which makes it impossible to counter with any one pokemon, and has excellent resistances to fire, fighting, water and psychic. It also has the ability to stick around for a long time without using a recovery move, which is incredibly valuable in such an offensive metagame.

    Uxie: Uxie is the ultimate support mon. It can do absolutely everything-from dual screens, to trick room, to weather support or just getting off Stealth Rock reliably. It has excellent bulk, and a decent typing, allowing it to take on fighting types rather well, and has levitate which gives it an immunity to spikes, toxic spikes and ground type moves. It can also sweep with the SubCM set.

    Middle:

    Sceptile: This is easily one of the best late-game cleaners in ru, if not the best. Thanks to its insane speed stat, it can also act as a scarfer that can change moves, which is incredibly valuable. Sceptile is also incredibly versatile, as the physical attacker and special attacker have very different counters, and by simply changing the HP type on the special attacker set you also have completely different counters. Sceptile is very frail though, which limits it to middle rank.

    Druddigon: Druddigon is a really excellent pokemon in this metagame, and its not hard to see why. Amazing bulk and typing allow it to counter a huge majority of the metagame, including Lilligant, Magmortar and Sceptile, and it also hits ridiculously hard with a CB Outrage-even bulky steel types like escavalier are 2HKO'd after rocks. Its only flaws are that it is slow, and is weak to residual damage, which is why it is middle rank IMO.

    Moltres: Moltres is undeniably one of the most powerful and defining pokes of ru. It has ridiculous power, being able to 2HKO pretty much the entire metagame outside of a few niche pokes, and unlike Nidoqueen is pretty fast by ru standards. It also has reliable recovery in the form of roost. The Stealth Rock weakness is a big nuisance, but there are ways around it. Rapid Spin is the most obvious, but even if it is a lot of support, people would still run Kabutops with moltres anyway because they synergise so well together. And even with Stealth Rock up, Moltres is far from useless-it still blasts pretty much everything to smithereens.

    Entei: Entei is the reason that people need a fire resist(as well as Moltres, but mostly entei because Moltres kills off a lot of fire resists with Hurricane). CB Flare Blitz is ridiculously powerful, 2HKO ing even bulky resists such as Druddigon and Slowking, while ExtremeSpeed is an excellent form of priority in RU, allowing entei to revenge kill Absol, as well as many of the frailer threats in the tier such as Galvantula, Manectric and Sceptile. Flame Plate Entei is also a really great set ATM, as it allows entei to destroy many of its counters such as Quagsire and Omastar with ease. Its only issue is residual damage from Flare Blitz and entry hazard damage(especially stealth rock).

    Low:

    Escavalier: Make no doubt-escavalier is still an excellent pokemon in ru. It has excellent bulk and a great defensive typing, allowing it to counter a large number of ru pokes such as sceptile and smash the switch in with an incredibly powerful Megahorn. However, unlike Druddigon's STAB Outrage which has very few safe switch ins, there are a large number of ru pokes that can take a hit from CB Esca and hits back equally hard, such as Entei, Nidoqueen and Moltres. It is also very slow, and can be worn down quite quickly with entry hazards.
  8. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2010
    Messages:
    1,435
    Top:

    Nidoqueen should obviously be here. It's the most threatening Pokemon in the tier and easily fits onto teams.

    Slowking is generally the most useful defensive Pokemon, usually surviving throughout an entire match. It has a very diverse movepool, allowing it to run multiple sets to fit a team. It walls a ton of threats, is extremely hard to kill, and provides excellent support for most teams.

    Mid:

    Druddigon is one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier. Almost nothing can switch into its moves, and it can even get past its counters with a mixed set. Druddigon is an anti-metagame Pokemon, single-handedly dismantling FWG cores while providing support in the form of Stealth Rock or Roar. It is also one of the best wallbreakers in RU. However, its low Speed and lack of recovery holds it back from being top rank.

    Uxie has a myriad of support moves and counters Nidoqueen, making it very easy to fit onto a team. It is one of the best SR users and pivots in the tier. However, it lacks reliable recovery and often cannot survive throughout the entire match like Slowking. The support sets also do not have much offensive presence, while the CM set isn't really a top tier threat imo.

    Entei is the best revenge killer and one of the most powerful physical attackers in RU. Lots of people come prepared for it though and it gets worn down easily by residual damage. It's still a great Pokemon that can do a ton of damage to the opposing team, so it fits well in mid rank imo.

    Barely anything can switch into Escavalier's Megahorn without losing half of their health. Escavalier has great defenses and a good typing, so it is easy to fit onto a team like the other S Rank mons. Like Druddigon, it is slow and easy to wear down, but is overall a very powerful and useful Pokemon.

    Low:

    Sceptile hasn't been as effective as it used to be. A lot more people run Druddigon and Escavalier now, which threaten Sceptile and its common teammates. People have been a lot more prepared for Sceptile lately which limits its effectiveness. I can't really bring myself to compare it to something like Druddigon or Nidoqueen, but maybe I'll change my mind.

    -

    I haven't really decided on where I want Moltres to go. When Stealth Rock is up, it will usually have to Roost after switching in, putting the Moltres user at a disadvantage. Using Kabutops to Rapid Spin is easy, however, but that puts a lot of pressure on the team with Moltres. I just feel that with SR up, Moltres is very easy to revenge kill or even stop with Slowking. This also brings up the point that Moltres is somewhat unreliable due to an inaccurate Hurricane, and Fire Blast if it chooses to run that. Despite this, Moltres is still one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier with little to no counters, so mid/low would be fine with me.
  9. Texas Cloverleaf

    Texas Cloverleaf meh
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    7,077
    I agree with DittoCrow's ranking in their entirety, with Moltres in low.
  10. Molk

    Molk Trop Ur A Faget
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,979
    Does anyone else have any opinions on this? If not, ill be updating this within 24 hours, like texas, i totally agree with Dittocrow's proposal for S rank as long as we put moltres in low, so if there's no more discussion on this that's what ill probably go with for now.
  11. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,427
    I think DittoCrow's list and reasoning, however I feel Druddigon should be low.
    DittoCrow's reasons don't only have other pokemon, even bastiodon for roar and SR does it better sinne it has better defensive typing and defenses, but the lack of good recovery and minimal speed should put it in low I feel.

    Edit for below: Cbt... missing the point entirely and thinking I was talking about how bastiodon is amazing in RU (which, for the record, it is not). I was saying that each individual thing another pokemon can do just as well or better, but Druddigon still deserves to be S since it can do such things and another thing decently well. It just deserves to be low S.
  12. cbt

    cbt
    is a Pokemon Researcher
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,285
    Since when was Steel/Rock a good defensive typing? It has multiple 4x weaknesses to common attacking types, and unlike pokemon like Bastiodon, Druddigon can do a fair amount of damage without any investment due to its natural attacking power. Bastiodon may have good defenses, but is let down by its lack of reliable recovery, multiple 4x weaknesses, and lack of offensive presence, the latter 2 of which Druddigon doesn't have.
  13. Molk

    Molk Trop Ur A Faget
    is a Tutoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RU Leader

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,979
    Okay, ive updated S rank to match Dittocrow's proposal for the top/mid/low ranks, and we will be moving on to A rank for the time being, for reference, this is what S rank looks like right now!

  14. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest i'm bored
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,257
    So S-Rank is pretty agreeable. At this point, now for the A-Rank. Here's what I think the ranks should be, feel free to disagree with me here.

    Top:
    Absol, Durant, Gallade, Kabutops, Lilligant, Rotom (both), Smeargle

    Absol is top notch A-Rank imo. This beast is great; he's got 130 Attack, Sucker Punch+Superpower, and great overall power. He can be an awesome sweeper with SD and just beat the fuck out out of everything. He can even grab Fire Blast and incinerate Tangrowth and Steelix, or maybe run T-bolt for Poliwrath thanks to a usable 75 SpA. Absol is hands down the top offensive Dark-type of this tier.

    Durant is a great sweeper. He has Hone Claws and Hustle, so he can pack incredible power. He's got Superpower to put Steelix to Sturdy level, and much more. Durant's an awesome sweeper overall.

    Gallade is the top Fighting-type of RU, in the same manner Absol is top Dark here imo. SD and Bulk Up make Gallade a powerful attacker, so he can hit pretty damn hard. Psycho Cut or Zen Headbutt are neat too, so yeah. Overall, Gallade is pretty awesome in RU and is high level A-Rank.

    Kabutops is a solid and useful Pokemon. He's the best spinner in RU, and he's a great attacker too. He can hit really hard after an SD boost, boasts nice coverage, and is just one of the most reliable spinners in RU (Fuck Cryo). He even a good rain sweeper, so yeah. Pretty solid, reliable, and just useful overall.

    Lilligant is an awesome sweeper. Like, among the best in RU. Quiver Dance puts her on a level that her power and speed make her nigh impossible to beat. With decent coverage (not that great coverage, but decent), she can sweep with relative ease after numerous boosts. She also has Sleep Powder to incapacitate an opponent, literally eliminating them, and also allowing her to grab boosts more easily. I guess Munchlax and Escavalier can take advantage of it with Sleep Talk, the former walling her to death and the latter KO'ing easily, but she doesn't really fucking care. Munchlax sucks, Esca is KO'd by HP Fire, and her sweeping prowess, although limited with the coverage issues and typing, yeah, but is still a top A-Rank sweeper imo.

    Rotom-N is cool. It's great and pretty diverse. It can be used to beat a variety of spinners. A set with T-Bolt wrecks Tops a new one, SubToxic beats Cryo, and also Sandslash and the Shitmons too. It's also got a pretty brilliant typing too and offers some nice resistances, not to mention Wisp is also great. It's also not predictable. Overall, high level A, best Ghost-type in RU.

    Rotom-C....He's pretty cool too, like his unattached cousin. He's diverse and can disrupt you with Volt Switch. He also makes some awesome Taco Storms that hit pretty hard, and can run Scarf, Specs, or Support or even Rain. Overall, I'd say Rotom-C is pretty diverse.

    Smeargle is one of the best hazard setters. An amazing Baton Passer. And even a suicide TR lead. I do not need to explain further.

    Mid:
    Cinccino, Cryogonal, Poliwrath, Qwilfish, Tangrowth

    Cinccino is a pretty vicious late game cleaner tbh. It's packs a shit ton of power and high Speed, outspeeding almost everything. Pretty decent coverage, except on Steelix and Magneton. Also King's Rock is annoying as fuck, so yeah. Mid, maybe high A-Rank.

    Cryogonal is one of the best spinners. It makes a great check to special attackers such as Sceptile and Nidoqueen, both of who dislike Ice Beam. It's also an excellent spinner, although weak to SR, it is immune to Spikes, and also it's capable of removing shit like Rotom, as well as some hazard setters like Rhydon, Roselia, Sandslash (lol), and others. Can also run an offensive set. Weak defense and dismal movepool and typing hold it back, but still an excellent spinner.

    Poliwrath is an awesome tank. It has great bulk, and can burn physical attackers with Scald, and phaze with Circle Throw. It also has nice resistances that allow it to take on Absol, Entei, Escavalier, and some more. It's also capable of running SubPunch as well. Pretty good, albeit underrated tank in general.

    Qwilfish is one of the best bulky spikers. It can check Emboar, Entei, Durant, Escavalier, and more. It also has Spikes, and T-Wave, Taunt, etc. Qwil also has Intimidate and such, and also much shit in this. It's so good it's mid A.

    Tangrowth is a good physical wall. It can wall a myriad of physical attackers bar Escavalier/Durant/Entei. Regen and Leech Seed as well as Sleep Powder also make it a nice wall. Great wall, although struggles with Escavalier/Nidoqueen, which can be solved via the use of teammates, like Slowking and even Nidoqueen (I guess, lol)

    Low:
    Emboar, Jynx, Rotom-F, Sigilyph Spiritomb, Tauros, Zangoose

    Emboar is a good Pokemon, sporting fine coverage and also some power. Scarf and Band are both solid in RU. Pretty awesome Pokemon overall. Great power makes it almost impossible to counter directly, although it has competition from Entei.

    Jynx is a very good Pokemon, and can use Lovely Kiss to literally incapacitate an opponent and set up NP. With Hail, Blizzard and other moves will hit pretty hard. It has a fine Speed tier too. But it's not that good though, and super frail physically. Hail is why it's even A-Rank.

    Rotom-F is awesome in hail, that's for sure. But it needs the hail to be consistent. Otherwise Blizzard will miss a lot. Other than that, it's got meh Speed, although outspeeding Absol/Nidoqueen is good. It is also weak to a lot of shit. But great coverage and nice hail attacker is good.

    Sigi is alright. Usable stallbreaker with CP, although that set does not get threatening fast enough. CM though is great and can do work.

    Spiritomb honestly does not function that well in RU and is not too beneficial for most teams to run. It does not have many notable resistances, and is fairly mediocre offensively. It'a a meh Pokemon.

    Tauros is a good wallbreaker, but it's Rock Climb and Fire Blast are both infuriating and can miss at the most crucial time. Sometimes, it cannot hit hard enough. Though Tauros is indeed great and underrated. Low A seems right.

    Zang is great, but it's frail as fuck and speedsters like Cinccino, Sceptile, and Scolipede kill it. All I need to say.

    So that's my opinions. Feel free to disagree.
  15. Magcargo 2

    Magcargo 2 ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つDruddigon
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,213
    I disagree with Smeargle being High A-rank. Spore is dangerous, as sap sippers and Vitual spirit magmortar get a free switch in. Smeargle also relies way to much on Focus sash and pokemon like cinncino can take advantage of this.
  16. shiranai

    shiranai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    114
    Since I missed the whole S-rank discussion, I'll join the A-rank:

    TOP
    Absol, Gallade, Smeargle, Kabutops, Durant, Rotom-N, Rotom-C, Cinccino
    130 base attack makes Absol the best Pursuit trappers of the tier, while still packing strong Sucker Punch and Superpower, anduntil something drops from UU it will be this way. Gallade is the best setup sweeper of the tier, being able to run either Bulk Up or Swords Dance, while packing the coverage of the elemental punches and a priority move that hits ghost types. Smeargle can easily set any hazard while still being able to put something to sleep, but can also run a Baton Pass or Trick Room set, showing how unpredictable it can be. Kabutops have enough offensive pressure to spin hazards away and get rid of spinblockers, while being able to sweep with setup. Durant is a stronger Kabutops that can't spin, Hustle and Hone Claws makes it a monster, while thanks to its high speed even for higher tiers makes a choice set also viable, packing immediate power. Rotom-N acts like a great spinblocker, but having 95 SAtk it still can do some damage, while its nice 91 Spe makes it outspeed threats like unboosted Lilligant, Moltres and Hitmonlee. Rotom-C can do as nice as its brothers on the above tiers, specially in RU thanks to the huge damage Leaf Storm can do and low, even still somewhat threatening, presence of fire and bug threats, being able to run a defensive set too. Cinccino can pack King's Rock, and be one of the most annoying pokemon to fight, paired to Liepard and Whimsicott, except because it can actually damage you, while either a Life Orb or Band set can tear a few holes in most teams thanks to its 115 speed, while by holding a Scarf it can revenge kill most scarfers of the tier, also it is one of the best pokemon to bypass Focus Sash.

    MID
    Cryogonal, Poliwrath, Qwilfish, Tangrowth, Lilligant, Jynx
    Cryogonal
    is one of the of the pokemon that really appreciated hail return, giving it the possibility to run the strong Blizzard instead of Ice Beam, while being a nice spinner thanks to its 135 SDef and 105 Spe and Levitate; unfortunatelly its typing makes it weak to Stealth Rock, lowering its longevity as a spinner, and terrible physical stats makes it have hard times against most physical sweepers. Jynx also appreciates hail return, also because of Blizzard perfect accuracy, while it still packs 115 SAtk and 95 Spe, while not being outstanding still is nice for a tier that lacks special attackers, Jynx also have Lovely Kiss and Nasty Plot, meaning it can easily setup and attempt a sweep, and a water immunity thanks to Dry Skin; but just like Cryogonal, Jynx have terrible physical stats, while Dry Skin means that even a weak fire move can KO it. Lilligant is the best special sweeper of the tier thanks to packing Quiver Dance and Sleep Power, meaning it is quite easy to setup; but Lilligant suffers in coverage, since it have to cover most threats possible in 2 moves, being one of them Hidden Power, most of the times, so a complete sweep sometimes isn't possible even at +3; Qwilfish only lose to Smeargle as a spiker, and it still can act a bulk water thanks to its typing and Intimidate, and thanks to a nice 85 Spe and taunt it is an answer to Smeagles that lacks Magic Coat; but Qwilfish typing ended making its weakness greater, since most psychics and eletric moves are special based, being killed easily by these moves since 65 HP isn't high. Poliwrath can take hits from many physical threats of the tier thanks to its typing and decent bulk in 90/95/90 stats, being able to burn and phaze while packs a immunity to water helps in its role as a tank; unfortunately psychics are more common in this tier since it can counter the few threatening fightings and Nidoqueen, which means it will get hit together. Tangrowth is a nice wall thanks to its 125 Def and 100 HP paired with Regenerator, while it still have all the grass support moves in Sleep Powder, Stun Spore and Leech Seed with 100 Atk and 110 SAtk to do some damage; but 50 SDef isn't ideal to a pokemon that carries fire and ice weakness, while grass are severely damaged by most top offensive threats of the tier.

    LOW
    Emboar, Rotom-F, Sigilyph, Spiritomb, Tauros, Zangoose
    Emboar
    is one of the pokes that came from NU, and got a solid spot in the metagame as a sweeper with a Scarf or a wallbreaker with a Band, while fight/fire is a good offensive typing; unfortunately Emboar's movepool, even though having a nice coverage, isn't the best around since it must rely in recoil moves (even though it packs a nice 110 HP), also it didn't get neither Close Combat or Hi Jump Kick its cousin starters got, and Superpower isn't a nice move to attempt a sweep, 65 Spe also is really low for a poke that attempt a sweep and relies in recoil moves. Rotom-F is inferior to it grass cousin specially because of its typing, since ice is weak to Stealth Rock and fighting while not even being half as effective offensively as ice moves are in the other tiers; if it wasn't for hail Rotom-F wouldn't get a spot here at all, since Blizzard paired with 105 SAtk and 86 Spe still is something. Spiritomb have nice physical and special stats, being 92 in the offensive and 108 in the defensive, and doesn't have a weakness (except for Scrappy users); but 35 Spe limits its offensive presence, while 50 HP limits its defensive presence, meaning that even by having all around stats it can hit hard enough nor take all the hits you wished it could, but it also means that it can be either pack an offensive or defensive set quite well. Sigilyph have a great ability in Magic Guard, meaning it doesn't care about poison, burn or Stealth Rock; Sigilyph is also the best stallbreaker of the tier thanks to its decent 72/80/80 defensive stats and a nice 97 Spe, even an offensive set is viable with its 103 SAtk; but just like all setuppers Sigilyph is really weak to phazers and taunters since it really depends on setting up to work properly. Tauros and Zangoose, even working quite different, share the same weaknesses: they both are vulnerable to fighting moves, can be walled by a rock or steel wall and will miss a lot of KOes without hazards. Tauros works like a physical Nidoqueen, but with a poorer coverage, explaining it sticks in a lower rank than Queen. Zangoose works just like most Guts sweepers: hit as hard as possible before it is worn down, huge power comes with huge prices, unless you're an Uber pokemon; I really wished it had Extremespeed, since it relies on Quick Attack to deal with faster pokemon; short story is Zangoose is weak to itself.

    EDIT:
    Sap Sippers are quite rare, while except for Magmortar and Primeape most pokes that carry Vital Spirit or similar abilities are mediocre. Unfortunately (or fortunately, for Smeargle) Cinccino is still quite rare to face, even though its popularity is growing. And Smeargle still can Baton Pass Quiver Dance. Don't forget that 75 Spe is nice in the RU environment, being able to outspeed many things, specially Nidoqueen. Smeargle have weakness, and that's why it is an A-rank, but still a top one because it can't act only as a suicide lead.
    I've been running a set with Magic Coat/Spikes/Endeavor/Spore, paired with a Steelix, and most common counters of the painter dog are shut down, specially by Magic Coat.
  17. TROP

    TROP FUCK DRUDDIGON

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    707
    This is honestly the dumbest reason for calling something a stallbreaker that i have ever read.
    And btw, CP set is terrible and no one is scared of it. Sigilyph doesn't even need to set up to 2hko everything relevant in the tier at worst with minimal hazard supports.So your reasons for it are dumb in general and most likely based on one of the worst sets someone can use in this tier.
    Good luck finding a rock type not called regirock and rhydon that can hope to take on these 2.
  18. shiranai

    shiranai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    114
    Well, it seems that fortunately for me I had only experiences with CP Sigyliph, so I may be wrong in this since I never faced a Life Orb set, to be sincere. Also, CP set can work quite well against stall, because it is the kind of team that gives more time to it setup, even though they packs a phazer.

    Max HP Aggron have a nice chance to survive Tauros' Earthquake. And Zangoose, again, was my fault, since I missed it got Close Combat. I used Tauros for myself, and relying in moves without a perferct accuracy isn't nice to him, meaning it can miss a crucial hit. Zangoose, on the other hand, is way harder to deal, the best option against it is stalling, even though Zangoose for me is more of theroymon too.
  19. TROP

    TROP FUCK DRUDDIGON

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    707
    Not only stall is a joke that will never be viable again until the day game freak makes everything a Lugia without making everything as strong as possible , an all out attacker set does that way better without needing to set up. Not being useless against more offensive oriented teams is way better than being a crit magnet that is ruined by any dark type that can avoid the burn(liepard) or doesn't care about it(lum Crawdaunt, Crotomb, Scraggy, and champion Houndour).

    And you suggest a mon that needs to rely on an 80% accuracy move to deal with tauros? And Tauros doesn't need to use rock climb at all because Return is still pretty powerful and will get the job done most of the time.
  20. shiranai

    shiranai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    114
    The deal with Tauros is avoiding LO recoil to keep a higher durability, and if with Rock Climb I already missed some damage, I wouldn't have a nice experience with Return. Also, CB max Atk Adamant Aggron's Heavy Slam (only set that is worth running max HP) has a better chance of KOing Naive Tauros than the opposite just because of LO recoil.

    And about Sigilyph, well, I only faced bad sets, it seems, so I can't say many things about it.
  21. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,427
    Top:
    [​IMG]
    Durant can completely rip teams apart. It is fast and powerful, has fairly good defensive typing for an offensive pokemon, and his 3 attacks, X-scissor, Iron head and stone edge have surprisingly good coverage. It can run either hone claws or all-out offensive with superpower over hone claws. The raw speed, power and offensive presence of this pokemon should place it in A top.

    [​IMG]
    Sigilyph can easily destroy teams if you don't have the right preparation for it. It burns the physical attackers, so it can put EVs into special defense instead. The stored power is by far the best set, since it has good defensive typing (kinda) but the cosmic power and roost can have you stalling for ages, especially against the physical attackers that it burns far more reliably than will - o - wisp. Those flinches it gets from air slash too puts it deservedly in top A. It can run a majority of sets though, since it doesn't take damage from life orb it can run an offensive set too so this places it even more securely into top.

    [​IMG]
    Lilligant has an extremely dangerous combo in own tempo and petal dance, as well as access to an extremely rare but extremely good set-up attack in quiver dance gives it an extremely deadly set as long as you put sleep powder on it as well. The most common types that resist grass, flying, fire and bug, are disposed of with hidden power rock in the final position, even though a boosted petal dance can get rid of things like magmortar in 2 hits, it is still worth the spot. If you would prefer synthesis in the place of hidden power, then it can work too. Lilligant is also very good at abusing the sun, a chlorophyll scarf set with that brilliant special attack in theory would work great, but generally I would just stick with the quiver dance set as it is just so good.

    [​IMG]
    Tangrowth is pretty much THE physical wall for RU. Only its lack of offensive presence leaves it out of S, so there is not that much to say. RU kinda lacks many physical walls, so just the fact that Tangrowth is a physical wall, and a brilliant one at that, should place it in the top of A.

    [​IMG]
    Zangoose is an extremely good sweeper in even RU. It is fast, powerful, almost flawless coverage... so that is why it should be in top. The toxic orb and toxic boost is by far the best set, but if you want to feel original you can attempt a swords dance set.

    MID:

    [​IMG]
    Qwilfish is arguably the best hazard setter in RU. It has pretty nice defensive typing, weak to ground and electric, but resisting fighting. It has fairly good defensive stats, but they are not the best. It deserves to be mid as there are not that many defensive pokemon in RU, and Qwilfish has very much usable attack letting it stall for a while by getting flinches from powerful waterfalls.

    [​IMG]
    Absol has incredibly good attack, and with swords dance to boost it, it can manage a sucker punch sweep once it gets a swords dance up. Well, unless it faces the monster that is linoone (espeed ftw!). The thing stopping it from becoming top A is its down-right abysmal speed for RU when its not using sucker punch and its frailty. Additionally for his coverage some people resort to using fire blast off of his clearly worse special attack.

    [​IMG]
    This thing is surprisingly dangerous in RU! What used to be one of the most renowned threats in NU was moved up into RU recently, but it didn't disappoint! It is fast and powerful, landing 5 hits with every move besides U-turn on most sets. It can be scarfed, banded or life orb(ed). The problem with it is that it can't dispatch most of the things in the tier in one (or rather 5) hits, leaving it out of the top of A. I don't know if I am being harsh or anything, but I just feel Cinccino isn't quite as good as the likes of Lilligant, Sigilyph or Durant...

    [​IMG]
    Gallade is extremely dangerous. It has brilliant coverage in that of fighting and psychic, it gets priority in shadow sneak, which is unfortunately not STAB, and then has a coverage move to boot. It has nice offensive presence, however it doesn't have the best attack stat in RU and it doesn't have extraordinary speed either.

    [​IMG]
    Poliwrath is an extremely good wall in RU. It is a great shuffler with circle throw, can run an offensive set with bulk up and has pretty great coverage in water and fighting. The problem with him is that he can only recover health with rest, making it so that you have to choose between water or fighting on a bulk up set. You can run a bulk up and circle throw ResTalk set pretty effectively though, and it can really hurt teams. The problem with Poliwrath is the aforementioned lack of recovery for a defensive pokemon, as well as the fact that its attack is kinda disappointing without you boosting it from bulk up as well, placing it in the middle of A for me.

    [​IMG]
    Rotom mow is basically the substitute offensive grass type in RU. It doesn't hit as hard as Lilligant, doesn't have access to things like sleep powder but is faster than lilligant. Unfortunately, being out classed by just that little bit I feel should put it one mini-tier behind the thing out-classing it, since it is still incredibly usable and works incredibly well.

    [​IMG]
    Spiritomb is the best spin blocker in RU, period. It is a far better wall than Dusknoir, which is practically Spiritomb's only competition. It has that flawless tpying we all know and hate, and it packs a punch. It can burn physical attackers, but there are a couple of flaws it has. First of all is its shalloe movepool in terms of coverage, having it walled by lots of pokemon easily, such as Nidoqueen or Absol. Then is its abysmal speed, it is abysmal. It is definitely deserving to be in the middle of A though, as it has those niches shared with dusknoir, which should never be used. Never.

    LOW:

    [​IMG]
    Emboar is dangerous, yes, but it is not as dangerous as the likes of poliwrath placing it low. It makes up for its speed with a scarf set usually, but can also run bands or life orbs. Right now, I find it at the top of low A (yes, that does make sense) and once reckless is released I see it shooting all the way up to top A, but for now it either needs a scarf for it to be fast, but it loses some essential OHKOs, or it can get those OHKOs at the expense of the needed speed.

    [​IMG]
    I'm sorry, but I don't see Cryogonal being good in RU. It is a far too inferior Slowking, and that is it. The only thing I see it good for is rapid spin, but since it is weak to stealth rocks it will not quite be as good. I really see no point in ever using it and that is why in my propositions for tier changes at the bottom of this post I have proposed it to be moved down. A bit of my reasoning though, is that while it is both fast and specialy defensive, practically anything with priority, but especially fake out, completely dispatch it, since even unSTAB'd Fake out leave far too big a dent in it to be good. When I was a nub and used normal gem fake out medicham, it got rid of cryogonal in a single hit. Yeah. That is just sad.

    [​IMG]
    Jynx can run specs pretty reliably, and has great offensive typing in that of psychic and ice. However, it has terrible speed and possibly worse defensive typing. It does not deserve to be B, since it has incredible special attack and pretty good bulk in terms of stats.

    [​IMG]
    Tauros, is powerful, fairly bulky and fast. It also has nice coverage. The problem is that its stats fall in comparison to the other threats in RU, so while it is nicely well-rounded (and not like Glalie) it isn't quite as good as other threats in the tier.

    [​IMG]
    Kabutops is deadly in rain, and can completely wreck teams once it gets a swords dance up. The problem with him, like Absol, is that it is pretty frail and frightfully slow. It gets a little more bulk than Absol in expense of power, but it is again even slower than Absol. It doesn't get priority either. Like Emboar, I feel it the top of low A, and I don't think it quite on par with the threats in mid putting it in low though...

    [​IMG]
    Smeargle is very unpredictable, the majority of them use spore, but they can set up hazards, baton pass and then even more things. The stats let this thing down, generally meaning it has to have a focus sash to be used effectively.

    Rotom-N and Rotom-F: I have not used these, but on papaer they look like they should be in low.

    Absol MID
    Cinccino MID
    Cryogonal LOW
    Durant TOP
    Emboar LOW
    Gallade MID
    Jynx LOW
    Kabutops LOW
    Lilligant TOP
    Poliwrath MID
    Qwilfish MID
    Rotom-C MID
    Rotom-F UNTESTED but LOW
    Rotom-N UNTESTED but LOW
    Sigilyph TOP
    Smeargle LOW
    Spiritomb MID
    Tangrowth TOP
    Tauros LOW
    Zangoose TOP

    Writing this I noticed a few out-of-place pokemon I think should be changed in placement;
    Propositions:
    Dusknoir down to E rank
    Medicham up to A rank
    Hariyama up to B rank
    Cryogonal down to C rank, is not, then at least B

    I might edit this post with reasoning later, but for now I can just let you argue over my placements, since if medicham got into A I would be putting it in at least mid.

    Oh, also to see if any of you are sharp-eyed I made a mistake in there on purpose, it doesn't effect the placement at all, but I just think it would be interesting to see if anyone notices it and posts it here.
  22. Nails

    Nails I wanna be a red panda when I grow up
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,518
    Smeargle belongs on exactly the same level as moltres. iIt is devastating against unprepared teams but if they prepare for it it's average at best and a large amount of the time a wasted teamslot against prepared-for teams.
  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest i'm bored
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,257
    Cryo is solid A-Rank. It's the second best spinner, can check some special threats such as Nidoqueen and Sceptile (something King can't check), as well as some others. Note that I said check, as it is still 2HKO'd by Focus Blast. It is also capable of spinning, which its immunity to Spikes also helps as well. It is also fast, unlike Slowking. Overall, just a solid and reliable spinner in RU. It is definitely an A-Ranked Pokemon.

    Disagree with Medicham and Hari. They're fine where they are. Medicham could be A, but at least high B.

    Dusknoir...uh, no. At this point it's pretty much been agreed Dusknoir is D minimum and D maximum, because it's slightly better than Munchlax/Sandslash (I still think the slash should be E-Rank, but whatever)
  24. TROP

    TROP FUCK DRUDDIGON

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    707
    It is already pretty bulky physically and fast, making high durability not a big deal when it can avoid most damage not coming from priority already, and even priority is lucky if it breaks 40% depending on the ability. Hazards will wear it down easily anyway and Intimidate is still a pretty good ability allowing it to run other sets if needed.

    Aggron is also a TERRIBLE check to Tauros; stop trying to say it is close to viable check for him when it is only a smeargle away from being ohkoed And inb4 BUT SPINNNER, Max HP aggron would only fit on a trick room team, and those can't afford to sacrifice a slot on a spinner when they could just be nuking everything with strong as hell attacks. It is also fucked hard by sub Tauros, which is a pretty solid set factoring intimidate and how easily tauros scares out shit.
  25. Celever

    Celever

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2012
    Messages:
    2,427
    So you think smeargle should be S tier!? If so then you should probably propose it.
    Smeargle itself can't rip teams apart, merely the thing it baton passes to can. Hopefully the thing it baton passes to can fair well enough without the boosts anyway, and because of this a lot of the leads like crustle have rock blast. Generally you just slap a move on a pokemon and it completely dispatches it, moltres takes far more preperation to counter, even going to a whole move slot if your team has that much trouble with it.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)