They even share the first 5 letters of their names.
Sarcastic or not i mightve shit my pants laughing to this lololol
They even share the first 5 letters of their names.
Assuming I did the math right, (and assuming Smogon PS' stat calculations are correct) one DD will put a jolly Tyrantrum w/ 252 speed above greninja by 20 (397). I'd say it's worth it.In regard to Tyrantrum Rock Head sets, is it worth passing up Rock Polish/DD for Hone Claws, knowing Tyrantrum's going to be slow, and knowing spamming Rock Head leaves you with a harder hitting Stone Miss?
Or is the speed boost too important?
As a STAB move, they're very weak attacks, because you're STAB is supposed to be something you can rely on. As Coverage moves with Strong Jaw however, they are quite potent. Thunder Fang was Luxray's best STAB, but Tyrantrum already has a STAB and then also some rather strong Coverage moves (And by rather strong I mean stronger than Thunderbolt and equivelant).^ not to mention that the Fangs just don't cut it (as good enough coverage, imo). Would any of you use a Fang on a Poke that got STAB on it? No? Guessed so. Luxray was very poor when he didn't have anything else.
What would my other options besides Scoliopede be? I know he's strong now but I don't really like him as a pokemon.I'm really liking the sound of Scolipede batoning him x2 Attack and x1 speed, but it sounds like the general consensus around here is that this is a risky strategy due to Scizor's contant presence, especially as a lead.
Scolipede is Bug/Poison and is weak to Flying, Fire, Rock, and Psychic, two of those types Tyrantrum resists.
However, Tyrantrum's Steel/Dragon/Ice/Fighting/Ground Weaknesses don't exactly make it the best defensive switch in. Luckily, MegaCharY resists all but Dragon, which is neural.
Mega Charizard Y suffers against Rock/Electric/Water, although water can slightly be mitigated by Drought. Nonetheless, Charizard automatically requires a spinner, and who is that to be?
Possible Rapid Spin Candidates
Tentacruel - Tentacruel seems like a good idea, but shares a weakness with each of the above members, and being under the sun doesn't do it any favors.
Forretress - A fire x4 weakness under the sun is risky business, although it does resist or is neutrally damaged by all of the above mentioned weaknesses.
Sandslash - Included him because of Sand Rush and how much trouble both Hippowdon and Tyranitar could give to the above trio. However, Ice/Grass/Water...
Hitmontop - Intimidate is a nice plus, but having a psychic and flying weakness alongside Scolipede is an impediment.
Claydol - I included him just because he is UU. Ice, Grass, Water, Ghost, Dark, Bug.... yatta yatta, basically, No.
Excadrill(maybe) - If he returns from Ubers (I personally doubt it) he'd have to deal with Ground, Fighting, and Sun-boosted Fire weakness. Not ideal.
It seems Forretress, Sandslash, and Tentacruel are top contenders, but still weak options. So maybe this team won't care about hazards (if for some reason you aren't running a spikes set on Scolipede, which isn't completely necessary), maybe... Defog?
Possible Defog Candidates
Skarmory - Only weak to Fire and Electric, two types easily covered by Tyrantrum, or better, Char Y and his slightly buffed SpD
Scizor - Arguably better, but running Scizor as a defensive pokemon would be something very new
Mew (lol) - I just saw him as someone who could learn defog and wasn't weak to SR. I didn't even stop to think. Maybe good for utility or BPassing, so not so bad.
Flygon - Another dragon is a bad idea, but it does have levitate and a rock resistance, making it one of the safest things to throw in a nest of hazards.
Latias - Again with the dragons and levitate. Thing is, it works well with Charizard so it could be a decent choice
Shiftry - Saw this guy and went (SAYWHUUUUT). With Chlorophyll, and Nasty Plot he could also function as another special sweeper.
Empoleon - Ground/Electric/Fighting weaknesses can be mitigated out, and lack of worry nor reliance on the sun means he's a solid member.
Gliscor - Another ice weakness, but Ground and Electric immunity can be very helpful
Defog seems like a better option to run, especially since the trio above (Scolipede, Tyrantrum, Char Y) will hardly have much problem plowing through enemy teams. And the defog candidates seem much more type varied as well as utility useful as opposed to the rigid clear-then-hazard spinners.
So Scolipede, Tyrantrum, Char Y, one of the Defog users, (possibly another special sweeper) , (another wall or annoyer) seems like a pretty steady and strong team.
SO TYRANTRUM CAN BE OU OK?! (jk but in all seriousness, I went to ridiculous lengths to justify him on a team).
Of course he would use it since he also got STAB for it :P 97 BP + STAB is pretty good.As a STAB move, they're very weak attacks, because you're STAB is supposed to be something you can rely on. As Coverage moves with Strong Jaw however, they are quite potent. Thunder Fang was Luxray's best STAB, but Tyrantrum already has a STAB and then also some rather strong Coverage moves (And by rather strong I mean stronger than Thunderbolt and equivelant).
It's not really a fair comparison. If Luxray got Strong Jaw he would absolutely use Thunder Fang.
Wait what? 121 attack is underwhelming? How?!His attack stat is really underwhelming. That's why he needed Strong Jaw to boost a STAB move...
Well, it's underwhelming for a TRex. You'd think he has more.Wait what? 121 attack is underwhelming? How?!
21 Base points is "a little" better in your eyes? That's a huge amount. He's at gyarados level power there, although defensively he is a little weaker than gyarados, he also has a 150BP stab move and the tools to abuse it. Yeah he's lucky to get HS+RH, but I don't see your point. Blaziken is lucky to get speed boost and Mega gengar is lucky to get shadow tag. It seems to me like you're just trying to discredit him for the sake of discrediting him.Well, it's underwhelming for a TRex. You'd think he has more.
341 isn't that great. It's a little better than decent (100 base is decent).
Without Head Smash he just wouldn't have enough power (and without Rock Head he wouldn't want to use Head Smash too much).
He's lucky to get HS and RH tbh, otherwise he'd kinda suck. Even at +1 attack his attacks won't OHKO anything with a little bulk, unless his STAB is super effective.
21 Base points is "a little" better in your eyes? That's a huge amount. He's at gyarados level power there, although defensively he is a little weaker than gyarados, he also has a 150BP stab move and the tools to abuse it. Yeah he's lucky to get HS+RH, but I don't see your point. Blaziken is lucky to get speed boost and Mega gengar is lucky to get shadow tag. It seems to me like you're just trying to discredit him for the sake of discrediting him.
Have you seen these calcs? The T-rex is dangerous.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tyrantrum.3489911/page-11#post-4922829
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tyrantrum.3489911/page-11#post-4924863
341 attack is not the same as 349. If you run a +atk nature it's good, but then you're missing speed which is more important.How is it underwhelming? 121 is Gyarados level, and he's never had power problems before, even though he has weaker STAB and coverage moves.
It's his speed, bulk and defensive typing that's underwhelming.
21 Base points is "a little" better in your eyes? That's a huge amount. He's at gyarados level power there, although defensively he is a little weaker than gyarados, he also has a 150BP stab move and the tools to abuse it. Yeah he's lucky to get HS+RH, but I don't see your point. Blaziken is lucky to get speed boost and Mega gengar is lucky to get shadow tag. It seems to me like you're just trying to discredit him for the sake of discrediting him.
Have you seen these calcs? The T-rex is dangerous.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tyrantrum.3489911/page-11#post-4922829
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tyrantrum.3489911/page-11#post-4924863
I don't think he is lucky to get HS and RH, I think GameFreak just made a good decision in limiting his power so that it doesn't become another easy button like Banded Outrages and Specs Draco Meteors were in 5th Gen. I mean imaging a 140 base Atk Rock Head Head Smash. Just slap a Band and spam away. GameFreak made a good decision in giving him a powerful combination that requires skill to pull off and that has some good counter play. Tyrantrum is pretty balanced in my opinion, hes powerful enough to sweep and wallbreak, but not powerful enough to destroy the metagame with his Head Smash. And what do you mean his +1 attacks cannot OHKO slightly bulky Pokemon. With Jolly LO, you have a good chance of OHKO Banded Scizor on switch in without setting up and at +1 you have a chance to OHKO Gliscor. If that's not bulky idk what is. There is obviously those things that can take +1 Head Smashes like Ferrothorn and Hippowdown but like I said, that's welcomed to maintain a balanced metagame.Well, it's underwhelming for a TRex. You'd think he has more.
341 isn't that great. It's a little better than decent (100 base is decent).
Without Head Smash he just wouldn't have enough power (and without Rock Head he wouldn't want to use Head Smash too much).
He's lucky to get HS and RH tbh, otherwise he'd kinda suck. Even at +1 attack his attacks won't OHKO anything with a little bulk, unless his STAB is super effective.
Well, it'll still be like that though, lol. Head Smash + Rock Head is just too good. Some will be choiced and some will go with DD. Strong Jaw will likely be less common since even 97 BP moves aren't that strong without STAB and just 341 attack (although maybe some will go Adamat).I don't think he is lucky to get HS and RH, I think GameFreak just made a good decision in limiting his power so that it doesn't become another easy button like Banded Outrages and Specs Draco Meteors were in 5th Gen. I mean imaging a 140 base Atk Rock Head Head Smash. Just slap a Band and spam away. GameFreak made a good decision in giving him a powerful combination that requires skill to pull off and that has some good counter play.
I still wish they didn't just give him Head Smash + Rock Head to spam it (not to mention it has shaky accuracy) to basically recreate a new and better Rampardos to make that thing even more useless. They needed to create some STAB moves that make use of his Strong Jaw... we'll have a TRex that will bang its head against things instead of biting things, because it'll be way stronger. It's just kinda sad.Tyrantrum is pretty balanced in my opinion, hes powerful enough to sweep and wallbreak, but not powerful enough to destroy the metagame with his Head Smash. And what do you mean his +1 attacks cannot OHKO slightly bulky Pokemon. With Jolly LO, you have a good chance of OHKO Banded Scizor on switch in without setting up and at +1 you have a chance to OHKO Gliscor. If that's not bulky idk what is. There is obviously those things that can take +1 Head Smashes like Ferrothorn and Hippowdown but like I said, that's welcomed to maintain a balanced metagame.
atm you can't get ithow do you get rock head hidden ability on this? i tried breeding with larion but its still strong jaw
Yea I really wish he did have a biting move that got STAB, something that would distinguish him more, maybe even a move similar to Freeze Dry like the other fossil. It would make both abilities viable and keep your opponent guessing. From testing on showdown, he is able to pull off sweeps, with the proper teammates, his checks and counters can be eliminated and pave the way from him to come in late game. I run him with Hippowdon who takes care of a lot of physical threats, sets up rocks, and is able to set up sand which improved Tyrantrums special defense for easier set up and Rotom-W to handle bulky grounds and burn threats like Scizor. Really wish they would release Rock Head since atm, hes sweep is always cut short by that massive recoil. Since he has so many weaknesses, I run him along side other sweepers, my choice being Mega Lucario as he cant always sweep, in which case I use him to wall break and pave the way for my second sweeper.I still wish they didn't just give him Head Smash + Rock Head to spam it (not to mention it has shaky accuracy) to basically recreate a new and better Rampardos to make that thing even more useless. They needed to create some STAB moves that make use of his Strong Jaw... we'll have a TRex that will bang its head against things instead of biting things, because it'll be way stronger. It's just kinda sad.
I don't think he'll be able to sweep much since many teams will have some walls he just can't get through, or scarfers / Scizor to revenge kill him. If nothing else stops him he could also just miss. He'll still be a somewhat decent Pokemon though.
341 attack is not the same as 349. If you run a +atk nature it's good, but then you're missing speed which is more important.
For Gyarados it isn't as big of a problem because he can set up more DDs because of its type / and/or Intimidate, and because of Moxie. Without them he isn't really too strong (also because of low BP moves but Tyrantrums moves besides Head Smash are also not that strong).
Yes 21 base points is much better than 21 less, but 121 is still not that great. You must not have seen/used all the other Pokemon and their stats if you're satisfied with 121.
Archeops with 379 attack (max neutral nature), base 140, doesn't even have enough power to get him through anything with a little bulk, unless he's super effective. Against anything a little more defensive you can't even get through with a Flying Gem boosted Acrobatics. If you just think of facing sweepers who have no defensive EVs then sure you can hit through some even if you're not super effective...
tl;dr:
His attack stat is not bad, but it's not that great as well. With Head Smash he is still really strong though. And Rock Head makes it useable.
[ anything else besides Head Smash will be lacking power though ]
I didn't say 140 is underwhelming, 121 is. I only gave examples on how even 140 isn't enough to take some cake, so 121 just seems... not that great?What pokemon, would you say, have enough power to hit through anything with with a little bulk without a boost?
140 attack puts Archeops tied with Rhyperior at 8th highest attack stat. You seem to be suggesting that this is underwhelming.
But this is about Tyrantrum right? His 121 attack puts him an inch above Blaziken in base attack. According to your logic, Blaziken's attack, then, is underwhelming.
Basically, what I'm understanding from you, is that if a pokemon doesn't use a boosting move and/or a move with at least 150 BP, they are an underwhelming sweeper.
You sound like a fan of scarf/banded outraging, and everything else seems inferior to you.
Glad Gen VI is finally in town.
...Stone Edge is STAB though, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.STAB moves are strong, but 100 BP without STAB aren't that great (not saying it's bad), especially if they have a rather high miss chance (Stone Miss).
Yeah, it's a shame Tyrantrum isn't likely to run any boosting moves.EQ won't KO anything from ~full health unless you got a boost or really high attack, even if a move like that is SE, unless the opponent has no defensive EVs and rather low HP and (sp)def.
Well, let's see how Jolly Tyrantrum goes after a dance.I was really shocked how bulky pretty much anything can become. Did you know that in Gen 5 OU (although I'm kinda thinking no Uber would be able to as well) it seemed that Rampardos (max atk +nature Choice Banded Head Smash) and Electivire (same with CB and Wild Charge) were the only things that could OHKO a fully defensive Politoed 100% of the time?
See above calculation. Or how about this one?With that in mind, you need to be really strong to fulfill a sweeper role, or you just get hit back hard when they survive your attacks. Even with a +1 Head Smash won't be OHKOing everything it's neutral to. Anything defensive can stop you.
For what its worth, Adamant Archeops' Stone Edges only hit with ~82% of the power of Jolly Tyrantrum's Head Smashes.Though I am using Archeops on almost every team of mine and even it can't get everything KOd with its 140 base attack, so that has to mean something, right?
Yes, STAB SE is quite strong (too bad it kinda sucks because misses are so fatal), but the Fangs are not (strong enough). Don't get me wrong: coverage moves are nice, the point is that Pokemon will survive them and hit you back. Not saying this isn't the case for other Pokemon, but if you're a setup sweeper you'll likely take damage setting up and you can't take anything else after that, which is a problem.Luigi Player, I'm not certain Tyrantrum will make OU, in fact I doubt it, but I still think you are fiercely underestimating it.
...Stone Edge is STAB though, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
Besides which 100 bp moves are pretty great. It doesn't get much better before drawbacks kicking in; sure you've got your 110bp special moves but after that its mostly stat droppers, recoil and hyper beams. Not that these are bad either of course (well, Hyper Beams are) but you can't seriously sit there and tell me that coverage moves with 97-100 bp and no significant drawbacks are somehow unappealing, especially when many mons rely on the 90bp beams and some even use the punches for coverage.
Like I said above.. Life Orb, really? Have fun doing 1-2 attacks and then die from recoil, unless you force something out while setting up (and after getting a free switchin).Well, let's see how Jolly Tyrantrum goes after a dance.
(custom is Rock/Electric Type with 121 base atk - the electric type is to simulate strong jaw)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 343-406 (89.32 - 105.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (31.25% chance without)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 391-461 (101.82 - 120.05%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's a potential (or better) OHKO with both Strong Jaw and Head Smash.
Defensive Politoed doesn't OHKO back either. TTrum obviously can't just switch in and set up taking whatever gets thrown at him, of course, but the point is he hits hard once he gets going.
Did you even read what I wrote? I clearly said numerous times that Head Smash is obviously powerful, but that does not change his base stat, which could be better.See above calculation. Or how about this one?
+1 252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Head Smash vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 257-304 (78.59 - 92.96%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Skarmory! That's like the physical wall, and he has a shot at OHKOing it!
I don't think you really understand just how strong Head Smash is.
But your insistence that he is somehow underwhelmingly powerful is just... inaccurate. I just can't see how you can look at something with over 120 Base Attack, access to a boosting move and your choice of 97bp+ coverage OR 150bp STAB and think "yeah, no, that's too weak sorry".
I think a lot of people are assuming he will be running Rock Head. I know it isn't released yet but its just a matter of time. If your talking about Strong Jaw Tyrantrum, then I agree that he is underwhelming as a sweeper and should probably run Choiced sets since his sweeps will be cut short either by a check or by his own recoil. But after Rock Head is released, I do think there is sweeping potential in him. Not to mention the possibility of maybe being able to tutor him Outrage in the future. From experience in Showdown, I have had several opportunities to sweep with that have been cut short by recoil, but I can see that in these situations had I had access to Rock Head, he would have definitely finished off the game for me. As for the accuracy of Head Smash, I do agree 80 isn't the best but it isn't terrible either. Dragon Claw makes a nice reliable option when the sheer force isn't needed. However because of this, I do recommend a back up sweeper. But the fact still remains that after Rock Head, there will be potential in him.Like I said above.. Life Orb, really? Have fun doing 1-2 attacks and then die from recoil, unless you force something out while setting up (and after getting a free switchin).
If not Life Orb, then what?Like I said above.. Life Orb, really? Have fun doing 1-2 attacks and then die from recoil, unless you force something out while setting up (and after getting a free switchin).
What you wrote, and what I was responding to, was "even with a +1 Head Smash won't be OHKOing everything it's neutral to. Anything defensive can stop you." Which is clearly untrue even with his "underwhelming" attack. I mean, Ok, so that's not everything if you want to be 100% literal, but its a long, long way from "Anything defensive can stop you."Did you even read what I wrote? I clearly said numerous times that Head Smash is obviously powerful, but that does not change his base stat, which could be better.
I agree that Rock Head Smash is better in most cases, but I still think you're being too dismissive of Strong Jaw's own merit. Sure, known walls probably wont go down too easily. That's why they're walls. Not a lot of other things will particularly enjoy it though, that's for sure.It is true though, that even with a +1 attack boost the elemental Fangs won't be good enough to OHKO stuff if they're somewhat defensive. Even if they're SE. If we're talking about any Pokemon who isn't defensive, sure, they'll probably do enough damage, but things who are made to survive some hits, and especially walls, will be able to stop you (unless they flinch...). And thinking logically, those will be the things being thrown in to you. Not to mention that if you do run Strong Jaw, the loss of Head Smashs power will definitely show itself (since it's neutrally stronger than a SE Fang even with Strong Jaw).
Of course not! I agree! The Fangs suck as a STAB, if that's your best STAB option you're in trouble.Like I already said. Pokemon who got STAB on any Fang do not run them.