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Ubers Survivor

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Dracoyoshi8, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. polop

    polop
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    I think I'm going to agree with Focus in that Dialga has the best chance of beating both. The next best contestant is Zekrom spamming Choice Banded Fusion Bolts (Bolt Strike might miss), but that move doesn't always OHKO maximum defense blissey who can then use counter and kill Zekrom. Choice Banded Bolt Strike also has an extremely low chance of not OHKOing so the same thing happens there.

    Sub Dialga can fry Skarmory. The only way the pair can win against Dialga is foddering Skarmory to Taunt Dialga, and then going to Blissey so that it can use Counter / spam Seismic Toss or Focus Blast should it decide to Thunderbolt to try to get rid of Taunt.

    Rest Sleep Talk Dialga might have a better chance but idk. Dialga's poison immunity is the reason why I selected it (it can switch into Toxic and not be dead), the other contestant's risk getting haxed by misses.

    Also I'd much rather perfer to use Flamethrower > Thunderbolt since we have weather control.

    Technically its impossible to beat Blissey + Skarm if we factor they hold Brightpowder and fluke out. Its also impossible to beat if we assume they paralyze the incoming switch in and seismic toss us to death because of parahax. That and Minimze Blissey.

    If we're going to think of the contestant that has the worst chance I would nominate Manaphy who basically gets stomped all over by Psych Up / CM Blissey that uses Thunder. Rest Talk users loose if there are no hazards up since the enemy can switch in and out without really caring about what happens and pp stall the rest talk user out of pp. If they are able to predict your every move giratina-o will be unable to do anything.

    If we assume that the switch-in comes in safely, then Giratina-o has the best shot with a set consisting of Rest Dragon Tail CM Aura Sphere since even minimize Blissey can't beat that. I don't know how well that fare's against SD Skarmory though... using Rain Thunder might also be a decent idea that works over Aura Sphere. But minimize + CM Blissey wins since we assume that Blissey has better luck and gets critical hit Ice Beams.

    Also I'm going to render Forretress useless by saying Skarmory / Blissey can run HP Fire or Flamethrower if its in the sun, and if its not Blissey's going to render it useless with an Ice Beam freezing X_X. Yes the chances of this happening are abyssmal but we are supposed to assume every outcome right?
  2. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    I personally think Groudon has the least chance to beat SkarmBliss simply because Skarmory handles it pretty well. I guess you can run SD + Fire Punch and all that, but Skamory can phaze you out, Toxic you and stall you if you're not careful.
  3. tehy

    tehy

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    Seeing as sash counter blissey is a set, we almost need to rule out every physical attacker. Groudon's especially suspect because blissey can also smack it around with ice beam or toxic it if he tries to avoid the counter. Also, have we ruled out toxic/iron defense/roost/protect skarmory? That could do work on groudon, switching back to blissey if you blast (So you'd need to predict to win). The best set is probably SD/Fire punch/Fire Blast/Earthquake.

    Edit: Forry's only allowed to hazards, spin, and have leftovers. And if you have a move that skarmory walls, and a move that blissey walls... then you can be PP stalled with perfect prediction, so that's not really a good way to win, especially if blissey's running protect. Fire punch has merit in solving this problem and in having more pp/accuracy. Problem with sub is, ice beam can break it, so it only wins if it predicts correctly;50/50 predicts to beat anything don't really make you "the best" at beating it.
  4. polop

    polop
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    Actually why do you even need Fire Punch? I'd run Substitute over Fire Punch so that Counter Blissey can get outplayed if it misspredicts hurt. Alternatively the same thing could be done with Fire Blast, since Skarmory isn't tanking Fire Punches exactly "easily" at all. 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in sun: 172-204 (51.49 - 61.07%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO.

    We could have Forretress fodder itself so that Groudon can get a free switch. Groudon can then Sub up on Skarmory or KO Blissey, if Blissey switches Groudon can Sub next turn. The worst thing that can happen next turn is Groudon getting Taunted but it can just spam Fire Punches and SD when needed. If Skarm does decide to go and start stacking Iron Defenses Fire Punch > pp then Roost so it can stall the Roosts out, the blissey that switched out earlier will be KOed by a EQ now. Fire Punch prevents Blissey from switching in. That's its only merit over Fire Blast.

    The only problem with this is Ice Beam + Toxic Blissey completely ruins this idea since Forry can't explode X_X.
  5. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    i think honeclaw + dtail + bolt strike + fusion bolt beats blissey + skarm almost 100%.

    fusion bolt koes skarm, so skarm is a non issue.

    meanwhile, a combination of honeclaw + dtail beats counter blissey, and then you ohko with bolt strike
  6. Daggerfall

    Daggerfall

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    I'm really sorry about being late. I had something I needed to do and forgot about here. ^^;

    Anyway, I'm updating the challenge to be the most reliable SkarmBliss counter without having to resort to PP stalling. Also, remember that the Forretress has absolutely no offensive moves with the highest base power on its remaining moves being Rapid Spin's pitiful 20. Meaning that the chosen monster has to be able to reliably beat the two with viable sets more than the other contestants to be considered the best choice. Standard sets hold more weight than unorthodox sets, but unorthodox sets hold more weight than gimmicky (Solarbeam Groudon) sets.

    Voting starts now and ends Thursday, December 20th, at 6 P.M. EST. Votes must be in bold or they do not count. Although reasoning is not required, it is nice to have.
  7. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    zekrom

    i already said y
  8. chuckeroo777

    chuckeroo777

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  9. polop

    polop
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    Dialga

    The poison immunity combined with access to Brick Break and Thunderbolt give it the best shot of winning. It can jump around Counter Blissey by using Substitute or Thunderbolt to bypass the sash, and Bulk Up just lets it OHKO Blissey faster and setup on the poor blob. Zekrom risks getting Toxiced and abused with Protect hax (ironically Blissey also lives +1 Bolt Strike if its using Wacan Berry / Focus Sash). Dialga's immune to poison so protect has nothing on him. Skarmory is doomed to Thunderbolt and the fact it underspeeds. Even if Blissey uses cheesy stuff like Fight-resist berry it doesn't matter since Blissey can't retaliate back.
  10. Focus

    Focus I'm waiting you...

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    It's close, but Dialga has the slightest of edges over Zekrom just because of the fantastic defensive typing to take the potential Toxic. Blissey with a little bit of SpA investment can consistently break Zekrom's sub with Ice Beam, which is far less outlandish than the Focus Blast required for Dialga. Dialga can do practically everything Zekrom can, but slower and more reliably. (Also lol, Wacan Berry wouldn't activate if held by a Blissey, unfortunately.)
  11. Jarc

    Jarc

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    Zekrom
    Zekrom has this in the bag, as it easily KO's both, unless Blissey is using an unorthodox set with sash+counter as mentioned, but our buddy Forry can lay rocks. I'm not sure who to vote off the island though.
  12. Phazon00

    Phazon00

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    Zekrom. Duh.
  13. buddhism

    buddhism

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    Mewtwo can deal some nice damage to both Skarmory and Chansey and I would vote for Mewtwo. However, Skarmory and Chansey literally have their asses handed to them on a plate by Zekrom's Bolt Strike.

    I would have to vote for Zekrom.
  14. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!
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  15. Daggerfall

    Daggerfall

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    Voting is now closed! Zekrom gets immunity by beating Dialga with six votes, as compared to Dialga's two. I understand that this wasn't an entirely good challenge, so I'll try to have a better one next time around.

    Elimination voting will take place on Saturday, December 22nd, at 6 P.M. EST. Until that time, feel free to discuss amongst yourselves which contestant should be eliminated.
  16. Daggerfall

    Daggerfall

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    ...
    Come on, guys. I mean, I know it's obvious who will get eliminated, but not a single post?

    Anyway, elimination voting starts now! Voting will continue until Tuesday, December 25th, at 6 P.M.. Votes must be in bold or they will not count. Even though the choice is quite clear this time, reasoning would be nice.

    Remember: PP stalling does not qualify as being able to win, and either side running out of PP counts as failure.
  17. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    edit: excadrill

    sd / ww / roost / bb skarm beats both excadrill and forretress
  18. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!
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    All right... i think Giratina-O has to go, as it's really weak to status outside of RestTalk variants, which are unreliable, and if you really want to talk RestTalk, any of the pokes can beat SkarmBliss. Furthermore, Giratina-O is the only one who has no passive recovery to speak of, futher hindering its stallbreaking abilities. Most people run offensive Giratina-O, which will require locking into Outrage (to beat Blissey) or launching a Draco Meteor or HP Fire (to beat Skarmory), both which can be absorbed through good prediction on the opposing team. Also, the two Dragon moves leave Giratina-O with either Confusion or -2 SpA, and will make it useless. Switching out can alleviate this problem, but not sacking Forretress leaves the duo vulnerable to phazing.
  19. tehy

    tehy

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    Really, it has to be excadrill. SSBM mentioned SD skarmory, but why not take it a step further? Iron Defense/SD/Roost/Brave Bird (Or maybe drill peck), basically boosts alongside excadrill. The only way excadrill can pull off a win is by getting extremely lucky with either criticals or flinches, which anyone can do, really. Keep in mind that skarmory only really needs a few turns-after they both boost to +6 in attack/defense, skarmory takes 2 slides and dances twice, roosts, dances, and roosts-5 turns. After that, it's probably a 2hitKo, so it's seven turns in total-skarmory's not really tempting the gods of fate here. Meanwhile, blissey can run max SpA/Max Def with flamethrower/counter/snatch/substitute, and can even bust out a serene grace body slam for a 60% paralysis. I'm unsure if max SpA/Max Def blissey ohko's with specs flamethrower/fire blast, but that's an option too.

    Giratina-O just needs some forretress hazards, which it should get if skarmory whirlwinds it. Snatch blissey is annoying, however, and i'm having trouble coming up with a 100% win, or even a pretty good win set. However, if it gets up enough hazards, it should be able to win in any case, so it needs to run... Rest/CM/Dragon Tail/Hidden Power Fire, in the sun. Calm Mind until blissey's out of snatches, then calm mind some more. If skarmory whirlwinds you, laugh and start stacking hazards with forretress. With enough hazards down, you can probably pull out a win-force blissey in, and it takes 43%. Then dragon tail it, HP fire skarmory, etc etc.
  20. Daggerfall

    Daggerfall

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    Well, since there were only two legal votes, I'm picking Excadrill to be eliminated, since he has an unofficial vote. I take it there are no objections?

    Contestant Excadrill has been eliminated from the competition! Excadrill will now join Ho-oh in the loser's corner, where they shall attempt Voltorb Flip to try to drown their sorrows.

    Anyway, this will go on a hiatus until either someone else takes it or I get PMs for challenge ideas. As much as I love this thing, I can't think of ideas. >.> Remember: if you have any ideas for a challenge, please PM them to me and I will use them with your name. Of course, if you don't want your name listed, just tell me that and I shall post it as anonymous.
  21. Daggerfall

    Daggerfall

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    Alright, I finally figured out a new idea for a challenge. If anyone has any ideas for future challenges, please send them to me in a PM, or post them here. Either one works, I guess. However, before I state the challenge, the remaining contestants shall be listed!

    The Six Contestants:
    [​IMG]
    MEWTWO
    First Introduced: Pokemon Red and Green
    Typing: Psychic
    Fun Fact: Only Pokemon to be Uber for all five generations.
    [​IMG]
    DIALGA
    First Introduced: Pokemon Diamond and Pearl
    Typing: Dragon/Steel
    Fun Fact: Has the highest Special Attack of all Steel-types.
    [​IMG]
    ZEKROM
    First Introduced: Pokemon Black and White
    Typing: Dragon/Electric
    Fun Fact: Cannot learn any Fire-type attacks, which really blows.
    [​IMG]
    MANAPHY
    First Introduced: Pokemon Ranger (as an egg)
    Typing: Water
    Fun Fact: Can breed with Ditto to produce an NU Pokemon, Phione.
    [​IMG]
    GROUDON
    First Introduced: Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire
    Typing: Ground
    Fun Fact: Heaviest Pokemon to date.
    [​IMG]
    GIRATINA-O
    First Introduced: Pokemon Platinum
    Typing: Dragon/Ghost
    Fun Fact: Only Uber to have Levitate in Gen V.

    SCENARIO THREE:
    Envious of their counterparts taking place in a contest, a rival Pokemon has appeared for each contestant! The rules of the battles are simple: One on one battles, with no prior damage or support. Each Pokemon has full health, any four moves, and an item of their choice. Crits are considered below the belt, and are thus grounds for disqualification.

    Now, as for the counterparts, I'll list them below.
    Dialga --> Palkia
    Groudon --> Kyogre
    Zekrom --> Reshiam
    Giratina-O --> Giratina
    Manaphy --> Ho-oh
    Mewtwo --> Darkrai

    For anyone wondering, Ho-oh is Manaphy's rival because they both shine in different types of weather despite being sub-par outside of it. As for Mewtwo and Darkrai, it's really the closest thing I could see to match Mewtwo that wasn't Godceus.

    Voting for immunity will begin on January 9th, Wednesday, at 6 P.M. EST.
  22. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!
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    So... is the challenge whoever can beat their rival most reliably? Can you clear this up? Or is it just me? :P
  23. Daggerfall

    Daggerfall

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    Yeah, my apologies. Whichever contestant is most likely to beat their rival is granted immunity. This extends across multiple sets, if you feel like you have the time. If not, then just go for standard sets.
  24. rileydelete

    rileydelete

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    Oh, interesting scenario. Well then...

    Dialga VS. Palkia would be cool in terms of seeing a battle between space and time, yet It seems that Dialga would win overall. Dilaga can take a Dragon-Type move from Palkia due to the defensive neutrality it gets from it's steel-typing. Meanwhile it can fire back a Draco-Meteor and down Palkia with little effort. Dialga would win this fight. He's a front runner for my vote.

    Groudon VS. Kyogre is a pretty simple choice. Unfortunately,you didn't tell us what weather would be on the field, but regardless, a Surf, Scald, or Hydro Pump will down Groudon easily. Also, assuming the Groudon is fast and can damage Kyogre before it could use a Water Spout, nearly all Kyogre variants pack ice beam, which also kills the continent Pokemon. Kyogre wins this rival battle hand's down and thus Groudon does not get my vote.

    As for Reshiram VS. Zekrom, the winner is hard to choose. Reshiram has a great special attack stat and can hit incredibly hard with Choice Specs Draco Meteor. Meanwhile, Zekrom has Outrage, but it's less likely to OHKO Reshiram. This one is all about who is faster. This is the only other match up that is up for consideration.

    The Giratina forms facing off would be cool to see, but I think the great wall would win overall. It can take nearly anything that the Origin form can throw at it, burn it, rest, and repeat. Giratina-O would lose and thus does not get me vote.

    Honestly, I can't imagine who would win between Manaphy and Ho-Oh. I'll go with Manaphy due to the type advantage and Scald burns's lowing Ho-Oh's attack. Honestly, I've never seen this match up before so sadly, Manaphy does not get my vote.

    Darkrai slaughters Mewtwo in a 1v1. Dark Void, and STAB Dark Pulse make for one dead pokemon. Of all the options presented, Mewtwo is the least likely to get my vote.

    So it's between Daiga beating Palkia and Zekrom beating Reshiram. I give my immunity vote to Dialga. Reshiram VS. Zekrom is all up to who has the higher speed. At the same time, Dialga reliably stomach a hit from Palkia and then fire back a Draco Meteor. Dialga should receive immunity.
  25. urdrakonis

    urdrakonis

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