Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

[sumwun]

Stakeout doesn't activate when a Pokemon replaces a fainted Pokemon, correct?
If a toxic chain user uses a multi-hit move, is the 30% chance to poison rolled on each hit or after all the hits?

 

[AztecCroc]

Stakeout doesn't activate when a Pokemon replaces a fainted Pokemon, correct?

Correct, only if a Pokémon is switched that turn (either manually or via a move).

If a toxic chain user uses a multi-hit move, is the 30% chance to poison rolled on each hit or after all the hits?

Each hit, same as Stench, King's Rock, Twineedle, and Poison Touch.

 

[knepsis]

Does Stakeout activate on forced switches like Red card, whirlwind and dragon tail?

 

[AztecCroc]

Does Stakeout activate on forced switches like Red card, whirlwind and dragon tail?

Assuming the Stakeout Pokémon has an attack left that turn after the item or move is used/activated, yes. So only in doubles for any of those other than the Red Card.

 

[Z-nogyroP]

If a Pokémon holding a Kee Berry is hit by Knock Off, the Kee Berry is consumed. Can it be regained through Harvest, or is it still considered to be "knocked off" and therefore ineligible for Harvesting?

 

[ralts_boy]

If a Pokémon holding a Kee Berry is hit by Knock Off, the Kee Berry is consumed. Can it be regained through Harvest, or is it still considered to be "knocked off" and therefore ineligible for Harvesting?

If Knock Off activates a Kee Berry, it is eaten, so it can be Harvested normally.

 

[Tbolt]

Coming from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokémon-showdown-damage-calculator.3593546/post-10133853

If a Koraidon/Miraidon uses Collision Course/Electro Drift into a Pokemon that is weak to it but has Terastallized into a Stellar-type, does the additional 1.333... boost apply?

 

[AztecCroc]

Coming from https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/pokémon-showdown-damage-calculator.3593546/post-10133853

If a Koraidon/Miraidon uses Collision Course/Electro Drift into a Pokemon that is weak to it but has Terastallized into a Stellar-type, does the additional 1.333... boost apply?

The Pokémon is still treated as its original type(s) for damage calculation, so it's still super effective, so it still gets the boost.

 

[Chessking345]

Hi wanted to check if the following interactions between Neutralizing Gas and Protean/Libero on PS is consistent with that of cartridge
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2138349240-ldjhestp8ks2kmbpmqtr5ni650zp7pdpw
In the replay on turns like Turn 1, we see that when the NGas mon switches out opposing Protean/Libero is able to proc.
However in the same replay on turns like Turn 8 we that despite the NGas mon switching out the opposing Protean/Libero no longer procs. Upon further experimenting on PS in the same replay it seems like this happens when the NGas mon has stayed in and clicked a move.

 

[DarkFE]

Hi again.

Some tests with footage for mechanics that were being discussed on Discord:

• A Pokemon holding Life Orb that heals its ally with Pollen Puff does not incur Life Orb recoil damage. This notably doesn't match Showdown's current implementation.
• Dragon Cheer's crit ratio boost can be Baton Passed.
• Dragon Cheer's crit boost appears to remain the same as it was for the original user when Baton Passing it. So if a Dragon receives a Dragon Cheer boost and then Baton Passes that boost, the recipient gets the +2 crit ratio even if that recipient is not a Dragon-type.

Hi wanted to check if the following interactions between Neutralizing Gas and Protean/Libero on PS is consistent with that of cartridge
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2138349240-ldjhestp8ks2kmbpmqtr5ni650zp7pdpw
In the replay on turns like Turn 1, we see that when the NGas mon switches out opposing Protean/Libero is able to proc.
However in the same replay on turns like Turn 8 we that despite the NGas mon switching out the opposing Protean/Libero no longer procs. Upon further experimenting on PS in the same replay it seems like this happens when the NGas mon has stayed in and clicked a move.

On cartridge, it always works like Turn 1 in the replay where NGas Weezing switches out and then Cinderace's U-Turn procs Libero to change it into the Bug-type, even if Weezing has stayed in for a turn prior. This was already fixed on the simulator as far as I can tell, but I thought it would be good to answer in this thread for ease of reference in the future.

Hope this helps.

 

[AztecCroc]

If you hack Commander onto something other than Tatsugiri does it still work? If it does, what does Order Up do?

 

[DaWoblefet]

If you hack Commander onto something other than Tatsugiri does it still work? If it does, what does Order Up do?

It doesn't work. It must ultimately be a Tatsugiri with Commander. If Tatsugiri uses Transform into something that has Commander it gets eaten like normal and would give the appropriate Order Up stat boost as normal.

 

[DaWoblefet]

When multiple Paradox Abilities activate/deactivate (e.g. Quark Drive getting turned on by Electric Terrain or off by Grassy Terrain), the order the Abilities will activate is based on raw Speed, or the Speed stat in the summary screen without modifiers. This is similar to how it's determined to which LightningRod user an Electric-type move will be redirected if multiple are active, or how chaining modifiers works when multiple Abilities are active, complete with non-RNG methods of breaking Speed ties. See cartridge footage.

So for example, if two Iron Hands are on the field, and Electric Terrain gets set, the Iron Hands with more "raw" Speed will always trigger Quark Drive first, independently of say, Icy Wind Speed drops, Tailwind, Trick Room, etc.

Notes from the testing

DaWoblefet's Iron Hands - 56 stat
Manoferrea - 77 stat
nerd of now's Iron Hands - 112 stat

Leading Miraidon: nerd of now's > DaWoblefet's
After double KO with Electric Terrain: nerd of now's > DaWoblefet's
Switching in Miraidon: nerd of now's > Manoferrea
Switching in Psychic Terrain after Electric Terrain was up: nerd of now's > Manoferrea
Switching in Electric Terrain with Tailwind: nerd of now's > Manoferrea
Switching in Psychic Terrain after Electric Terrain was up with Tailwind: nerd of now's > Manoferrea
After double KO with Electric Terrain with Tailwind: nerd of now's > Manoferrea
Leading Electric Terrain with Choice Scarf: nerd of now's > Manoferrea
Switching in Psychic Terrain after Electric Terrain was up with Choice Scarf: nerd of now's > Manoferrea
Switching in Electric Terrain with nerd of now -2 Speed: nerd of now's > Manoferrea
Using manual Electric Terrain: nerd of now > Manoferrea > DaWoblefet's
Using manual Electric Terrain in Tailwind: nerd of now > Manoferrea > DaWoblefet's

With triple max Speed Hands led
Electric Terrain set: host's left -> host's right -> opponent's left
Grassy Terrain replacing Electric Terrain: host's left -> host's right -> opponent's left

After switching out host left and back in:
Electric Terrain set: Max Speed 2 > nerd of now's > Max Speed 1
Grassy Terrain replacing Electric Terrain: Max Speed 2 > nerd of now's > Max Speed 1

 

[theAstrogoth]

On cartridge, it seems that Wonder Room has an interesting interaction with Unaware. With Wonder Room active, an attacker with Unaware ignores the effect of Wonder Room (so damage for a physical attack is calculated using the target's *defense*). I believe this is different than Showdown's current implementation.

Video of a test case: https://i.imgur.com/GJzmahD.mp4

0+ Atk Dondozo Order Up vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Chansey in Wonder Room: 45-53 (6.3 - 7.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0+ Atk Dondozo Order Up vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Chansey: 316-372 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO

The recording shows 331 damage to Chansey, consistent with Wonder Room getting ignored.

Here's a guess about why this might happen from someone smarter than me:

So here's my theory:
- When Wonder Room is in effect, the game just sets a flag of some kind to flip the Def & SpDef values when doing damage calculations without changing any actual stats.
- Later, the game checks to see if the target's ability is Unaware, and if so it uses its base Def & SpDef values when calculating damage. This is only supposed to remove stat changes, but it inadvertently undoes the change from Wonder Room as well.

With this in mind, it seemed like something like Power Trick might also have a weird interaction with Unaware, but when tested, Atk and Def are swapped the same way with/without an Unaware opponent.

 

[sumwun]

Does good as gold block skill swap, entrainment, gastro acid, worry seed, or simple beam?

 

[Bog Monster]

Does good as gold block skill swap, entrainment, gastro acid, worry seed, or simple beam?

Yes to all

 

[longhiep341]

A veeery minor (or maybe not, considering the reactions) discovery, but if Outrage is disrupted on the first turn due to a Fairy-type switch-in, the user immediately becomes Confused. In older gens, the move would just be disrupted and no confusion would be afflicted.

I did not test other disruption possibilities (missing, etc) but I believe they work the same.

This was confirmed by Fragmented almost two years ago.

Also can confirm this, happened in a raid where Primeape evo got confused after using Outrage on my Flutter Mane

Yet, the interaction has never been changed on Pokemon Showdown. Can anyone confirm if this is still the case?

Does Thermal Exchange work against Will-O-Wisp? If foe has Mold Breaker, does it cure itself?
- User cannot get burnt, even against a foe with Mold Breaker.

Purifying Salt and Thermal Exchange don't seem to be abilities that are affected by Mold Breaker.

Can anyone check the interaction between Neutralizing Gas and Mold Breaker on cart with these abilities, like whether the users cure themselves of status similar to Water Veil. For example, Neutralizing Gas Weezing burns Garganacl with Will-O-Wisp, does Garganacl cure itself once Weezing switches out?
Does Infernal Parade/Hex's BP double against Comatose?
Does Unaware mess with Shell Side Arm (considering both cases of either attacker or defender with Unaware) and Photon Geyser (with Ability Shield) damage category as well?
Do future moves incur Life Orb damage immediately? They currently do on PS.
Do multihit moves immediately stop when the subsequent hits change type? (So a Pixilate Tail Slap against a Ghost-type with Mummy or Wandering Spirit)
Can a Hoopa-Unbound/Darkrai transforming into another Pokemon use Hyperspace Fury/Dark Void and vice versa?

 

[ralts_boy]

I checked first-turn outrage into a Fairy switch-in, and the Outrage user was not confused afterwards. Not sure how OP was testing, but I wouldn't put too much stock into raid testing since the raid mon can use moves into allies, so things aren't as clear.

Neutralizing Gas vs Purifying Salt - Garg was poisoned, was not cured after switching (testing done on Ditto with correct ability)
Neutralizing Gas vs Thermal Exchange - Bax was burned, WAS cured after switching

 

[DarkFE]

<snip>

Hi. Good questions. I've attempted to answer all of them with footage except for the Unaware questions this time around.

<snipped multiple quotes about Outrage's confusion affliction effect>

I checked first-turn outrage into a Fairy switch-in, and the Outrage user was not confused afterwards. Not sure how OP was testing, but I wouldn't put too much stock into raid testing since the raid mon can use moves into allies, so things aren't as clear.

I've also confirmed that the initial use of Outrage won't cause Confusion when attacking into a Fairy-type. Outrage appears to work as it has since the introduction of the Fairy-type, at least in the current version of Scarlet and Violet as of writing this (v3.0.1). Everything appears as normal.

It's possible something was broken in an old game version, or as ralts_boy proposes, perhaps something was weird with the Tera Raid conditions of the interaction previously messing with turns or similar. I'm afraid I don't know enough regarding the Tera Raid mechanics to be able to say definitively.

Can anyone check the interaction between Neutralizing Gas and Mold Breaker on cart with these abilities, like whether the users cure themselves of status similar to Water Veil. For example, Neutralizing Gas Weezing burns Garganacl with Will-O-Wisp, does Garganacl cure itself once Weezing switches out?

ralts_boy pretty much covered this, but I'll pitch in too since this section was already written.

Mold Breaker and Neutralizing Gas both allow you to apply status to a Purifying Salt target. Purifying Salt will not cure a status affliction once it's been applied, even after Neutralizing Gas leaves the field.

Thermal Exchange will cure Burn as soon as it's able.

In Mold Breaker's case, this means that immediately after using, for instance, Mold Breaker Will-O-Wisp on a Thermal Exchange target, Thermal Exchange will activate to cure the Burn before other moves happen on the turn.

In Neutralizing Gas's case, this means that Thermal Exchange will cure the Burn as soon as Neutralizing Gas leaves the field, before other moves on that turn. For instance, NGas Weezing switches out and goes into the Pokeball, then NGas plays its deactivation message, then Thermal Exchange activates to cure Baxcalibur's Burn, then the next Pokemon enters the field.

Do future moves incur Life Orb damage immediately? They currently do on PS.

Future Attacks do not incur Life Orb recoil until the attack lands. Life Orb's damage boost and recoil are not applied if the user of the Future Attack is not on the field at the time that the attack hits its target. Life Orb's recoil and damage boost will still apply if the user swaps out and back in after setting the Future Attack, such that the user is on the field when the attack hits its target.

However, this seems to be correct on Showdown since 2021 or so according to GitHub. It's possible that you saw an old replay before this was fixed. I'd propose providing a recent Showdown replay showing the issue if you still think something is broken with this interaction and we can definitely do more testing.

Do multihit moves immediately stop when the subsequent hits change type? (So a Pixilate Tail Slap against a Ghost-type with Mummy or Wandering Spirit)

Pixilate-boosted Tail Slap does not cease mid-attack when attacking a Mummy Ghost-type, even though Pixilate is removed by Mummy after the first hit. The first hit works as you'd expect a regular Pixilate-boosted attack to work. The subsequent hits appear to remain Fairy-type attacks, but do not seem to receive the additional 1.2x damage multiplier from Pixilate.

I believe this was known already in some places like some Hackmons circles, plus it seems right in the damage calculator. Still, it's nice to have footage of it in the modern games to verify everything remains correct.

Can a Hoopa-Unbound/Darkrai transforming into another Pokemon use Hyperspace Fury/Dark Void and vice versa?

Hoopa-Unbound cannot use Hyperspace Fury while it's Transformed into a different Pokemon, but a different Pokemon can use Hyperspace Fury while Transformed into a Hoopa-Unbound. Footage here.

Darkrai is exactly the same with Dark Void: Darkrai cannot use Dark Void while it's Transformed into a different Pokemon, but a different Pokemon can use Dark Void while Transformed into a Darkrai. Footage here.

Does Infernal Parade/Hex's BP double against Comatose?

Yes. The power of Hex appears to be increased when attacking a Comatose target.

Hope this helps.

 

[Worldie]

For information, the confusion about outrage confusion (hee hee) is due to how turns work in raids. It's fully possible that the raid boss used Outrage on pokemon 1 turn, hit pokemon 1, this carried into pokemon 2's turn, ending the effect and confusing the boss, then using Outrage again in pokemon 3's turn which then carried into yours, keeping the already present confusion and giving the impression it was caused by the Flutter Mane immunity to the move.

 

[doipy hooves]

For information, the confusion about outrage confusion (hee hee) is due to how turns work in raids. It's fully possible that the raid boss used Outrage on pokemon 1 turn, hit pokemon 1, this carried into pokemon 2's turn, ending the effect and confusing the boss, then using Outrage again in pokemon 3's turn which then carried into yours, keeping the already present confusion and giving the impression it was caused by the Flutter Mane immunity to the move.

Or just using Outrage on one mon and hitting into Flutter Mane as the second target and ending to cause confusion instead of already having it. The anecdote of a raid mon hitting into a natural type immunity implies it was already locked in to begin with anyway.

 

[pika pal]

Mold Breaker and Neutralizing Gas both allow you to apply status to a Purifying Salt target. Purifying Salt will not cure a status affliction once it's been applied, even after Neutralizing Gas leaves the field.

Thermal Exchange will cure Burn as soon as it's able.

In Mold Breaker's case, this means that immediately after using, for instance, Mold Breaker Will-O-Wisp on a Thermal Exchange target, Thermal Exchange will activate to cure the Burn before other moves happen on the turn.

This section brings to mind another question I had (whether answered or if it can be pointed to): does Mold Breaker allow proc-moves (which can 'go off" but normally always fail their secondary effect) to work through abilities like Purifying Salt or Thermal Exchange, or only status moves (which would be prevented from being used entirely)?

EX: If I use Mold Breaker Thunder on Garganacl, is it possible to trigger the 30% Paralyze chance, or Mold Breaker Scald to burn Baxcalibur (even if Thermal will cure it immediately after)?

Additional to this, if a Thermal Exchange target is burned by a Mold Breaker while holding a Lum/Rawst Berry, does Thermal Exchange Cure the Burn before the Pokemon eats the Berry? Immunity behaves this way for Poison-Bypassing, but curious for consistency.

 

[Arcticblast]

EX: If I use Mold Breaker Thunder on Garganacl, is it possible to trigger the 30% Paralyze chance

I tested this by Skill Swapping Mold Breaker onto a wild Nosepass then switching to Garganacl, and it was successfully paralyzed by Zap Cannon. Video

 

[sumwun]

Which status moves can be blocked only by good as gold and can't be blocked by any other abilities, items, or status effects (like how ingrain blocks whirlwind)? I don't need all of them. 3 or 4 examples should be enough.

 

[DarkFE]

Additional to this, if a Thermal Exchange target is burned by a Mold Breaker while holding a Lum/Rawst Berry, does Thermal Exchange Cure the Burn before the Pokemon eats the Berry? Immunity behaves this way for Poison-Bypassing, but curious for consistency.

Lum Berry will activate before Thermal Exchange and Immunity in these cases.