Serious The Politics Thread

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faint said:
I don't understand how after everything you've said you're suddenly so defeatist. Shouldn't we be gathering around Kamala and her running mate?
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Clearly you didn’t read any of my posts the last 5 pages. Yes, we must gather around Kamala Harris. I believe her chances of defeating Trump are marginal. As I said above, the Replace Biden movement threw away incumbency for “excitement” that I do not see evidence will equal any more more votes than Biden would have gotten.

faint said:
You say Project 2025 is a threat to democracy, so where is the fight you had for Biden? Why are you not supporting the candidate he just endorsed? Bernie supporters supported Hillary 10:1 in 2016 and even more for Biden in 2020. Why are you not doing the same? You should have the same vigor and energy you had for Biden even though he's no longer on the ticket. She's going to continue his policies either way. And to be clear, I don't mean support as in vote. I know you will vote for her. I just don't understand your behavior when she was his literal running mate. Not to mention, read the room. People seem overly optimistic about Kamala in November. Her AIPAC comments are disgusting and I don't know if I'll vote for her but I'm far more optimistic than she can beat Trump than I was with Biden, and it appears most Democrats are too.

It's just incredibly weird seeing you act as though this is somehow your first election, being unhappy with a choice that you had no say in, when that's quite literally how most Americans feel every election. Whenever someone criticized Biden you would respond in a condescending manner towards them because in your head you can't be wrong. Now you're on the other side of that. Stop moaning. Get back to telling people to vote for Kamala the same way you were for Biden.
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I am not going to respond to these rediculous strawman arguments. I made it clear in at least five posts I am voting for the Democratic nominee. I am griping because history suggests the Replace Biden foolishness just threw the election.
 
RaikouLover said:
Clearly you didn’t read any of my posts the last 5 pages. Yes, we must gather around Kamala Harris. I believe her chances of defeating Trump are marginal. As I said above, the Replace Biden movement threw away incumbency for “excitement” that I do not see evidence will equal any more more votes than Biden would have gotten.



I am not going to respond to these rediculous strawman arguments. I made it clear in at least five posts I am voting for the Democratic nominee. I am griping because history suggests the Replace Biden foolishness just threw the election.
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There's no strawman argument in there. I quite literally stated that I know you will vote for her. I'm just tired of seeing you act in the very manner you called others out for. You never cared about how they felt or approached anything with empathy. In your head it was Biden vs fascism and anyone that talked out against Biden was supporting fascism. One of those things you were right on so it's time for you to do what the rest of us have done and accept that you can't always get what you want.
 
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What's even funnier is Lisa being inaugurated in 2025 and winning again in 2028 is actually perfectly canon with the episode. That's right folks we're looking at a 2 term Kamela.
 
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faint said:
There's no strawman argument in there. I quite literally stated that I know you will vote for her. I'm just tired of seeing you act in the very manner you called others out for. You never cared about how they felt or approached anything with empathy. In your head it was Biden vs fascism and anyone that talked out against Biden was supporting fascism. One of those things you were right on so it's time for you to do what the rest of us have done and accept that you can't always get what you want.
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Well, you used ageist and ableist attacks to drive out the most successful Democratic president in a generation, the only one that beat Trump, and won TWO Democratic primaries, and you disenfranchised 14 million loyal party voters in the process. And you made victory in November considerably more difficult. I don't see how that is analogous to Bernie Sanders not winning a Democratic Primary. So excuse me for not showing empathy.
 
RaikouLover said:
Well, you used ageist and ableist attacks to drive out the most successful Democratic president in a generation, the only one that beat Trump, and won TWO Democratic primaries, and you disenfranchised 14 million loyal party voters in the process. And you made victory in November considerably more difficult. I don't see how that is analogous to Bernie Sanders not winning a Democratic Primary. So excuse me for not showing empathy.
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Wow, I had no idea I was this influential.
 
RaikouLover said:
Well, you used ageist and ableist attacks to drive out the most successful Democratic president in a generation, the only one that beat Trump, and won TWO Democratic primaries, and you disenfranchised 14 million loyal party voters in the process. And you made victory in November considerably more difficult. I don't see how that is analogous to Bernie Sanders not winning a Democratic Primary. So excuse me for not showing empathy.
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if saying someone who is obvious not mentally capable of doing an important job shouldn’t be doing it makes me ableist, then I am proudly ableist. If saying someone’s old age is an issue with them doing an improtant job is ageism, than I am proudly ageist? When someone is running for president, I think it’s very fair to want them to be able to get more than two sentences without rambling about how immigrants are rapists on a debate stage. It’s interesting that you are more mad at people saying Biden is old and being ageist or saying he has dementia and being ableist than to actually make a case for his mental ability to be president now or another 4 years
 
Pinecoishot said:
if saying someone who is obvious not mentally capable of doing an important job shouldn’t be doing it makes me ableist, then I am proudly ableist. If saying someone’s old age is an issue with them doing an improtant job is ageism, than I am proudly ageist? When someone is running for president, I think it’s very fair to want them to be able to get more than two sentences without rambling about how immigrants are rapists on a debate stage. It’s interesting that you are more mad at people saying Biden is old and being ageist or saying he has dementia and being ableist than to actually make a case for his mental ability to be president now or another 4 years
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This is something that bothers me. It's not ageist or ableist to say that being over 80 years old renders one less fit to occupy one of the most powerful and high-stress positions in the developed world. Joe Biden is getting up in years, and he's clearly not quite as sharp as he used to be. That doesn't make him a worse person or less deserving of compassion; it just makes me less enthusiastic about him getting to make decisions that will impact millions of lives. The people dragging him through the mud for his age and calling him "Sleepy Joe" are absolutely repugnant, but I still think that concern over his age as it pertains to his fitness for such an important office is warranted.

All of this also applies to Donald Trump, by the way.
 
Chlora said:
Felt like sharing my pessimistic 2 cents here. Potentially incoherent thought dump
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I saw some twitter posts talking about how kamala has recieved ludicrous amounts from the pro-israel lobby. I couldn't find much close to the amount claimed (5+ million usd) but on opensecrets.org (which seems to be reliable enough a source for this stuff? not sure. never really looked into things like this before) there are records of large amounts recieved by kamala from israel lobbyists
Either way, it seems like nothing will change after all. The genocide will continue anyway. Wish jill stein was allowed on debates so she could actually amass a bigger following

On a side note, my country (portugal) has been looking to legalize lobbying lately, alongside privatizing healthcare and other public services. Not entirely surprising, but still unbelievable that the liberal parties want to turn us into a corporate slave country like america. The left here is also either incompetent or has so much propaganda running against them that most people hate them, so they will never get many seats on the parliament or get elected anywhere
 
Chlora said:
I saw some twitter posts talking about how kamala has recieved ludicrous amounts from the pro-israel lobby. I couldn't find much close to the amount claimed (5+ million usd) but on opensecrets.org (which seems to be reliable enough a source for this stuff? not sure. never really looked into things like this before) there are records of large amounts recieved by kamala from israel lobbyists
Either way, it seems like nothing will change after all. The genocide will continue anyway. Wish jill stein was allowed on debates so she could actually amass a bigger following

On a side note, my country (portugal) has been looking to legalize lobbying lately, alongside privatizing healthcare and other public services. Not entirely surprising, but still unbelievable that the liberal parties want to turn us into a corporate slave country like america. The left here is also either incompetent or has so much propaganda running against them that most people hate them, so they will never get many seats on the parliament or get elected anywhere
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I know they’ve weakened recently, but hasn’t Portugal been largely governed by a left coalition in modern history?
 
Chlora said:
On a side note, my country (portugal) has been looking to legalize lobbying lately, alongside privatizing healthcare and other public services. Not entirely surprising, but still unbelievable that the liberal parties want to turn us into a corporate slave country like america.
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I don't know much about Portugal but it turning into "corporate slave country" can't be worse than being poor
Screenshot_20240722-093957.png
 
Pinecoishot said:
if saying someone who is obvious not mentally capable of doing an important job shouldn’t be doing it makes me ableist, then I am proudly ableist. If saying someone’s old age is an issue with them doing an improtant job is ageism, than I am proudly ageist? When someone is running for president, I think it’s very fair to want them to be able to get more than two sentences without rambling about how immigrants are rapists on a debate stage. It’s interesting that you are more mad at people saying Biden is old and being ageist or saying he has dementia and being ableist than to actually make a case for his mental ability to be president now or another 4 years
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adjectivenoun said:
This is something that bothers me. It's not ageist or ableist to say that being over 80 years old renders one less fit to occupy one of the most powerful and high-stress positions in the developed world. Joe Biden is getting up in years, and he's clearly not quite as sharp as he used to be. That doesn't make him a worse person or less deserving of compassion; it just makes me less enthusiastic about him getting to make decisions that will impact millions of lives. The people dragging him through the mud for his age and calling him "Sleepy Joe" are absolutely repugnant, but I still think that concern over his age as it pertains to his fitness for such an important office is warranted.

All of this also applies to Donald Trump, by the way.
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Spin it how you want, it is ageism and ableism. Proof of ability is in the results. It was the most successful Presidential first term in a generation.

I think the fact is clear that Americans remain juvenile when it comes to politics. An objectively successful President was unpopular not because of scandals, corruption, or economic recession; he was ran out of town because he was old and didn’t give people tingly butterflies in their stomach. Says a lot about who we are.
 
Platinum God n1n1 said:
I don't know much about Portugal but it turning into "corporate slave country" can't be worse than being poor
View attachment 650574
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The US is the richest country and earth and "somehow" ridden with poverty, a vanishing middle class and a vast majority of people that will never own anything

A country that goes fully into corporate slavery is a country with a poor population and a high GDP exclusively driven by the top .1%
 
Chou Toshio said:
I know they’ve weakened recently, but hasn’t Portugal been largely governed by a left coalition in modern history?
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Our "socialist party", PS, which granted is in power often, is mostly centrism that sometimes does good stuff occasionally and misspends often while everything gets worse because of mismanagement and poorly allocated manpower and resources. PCP, the "communists", who are the usual coalition go-to for PS are also debatably closer to the centre
The REAL lefties, such as the green party, PAN, and BE are very alienated and dont ever get the spotlight because of our society's largely very backward and generally conservative thinking (mostly older people, which make most of the population), as well as propaganda made to ridicularize their efforts and goals. Not that they're without flaw, but they struggle to make any meaningful impact because their opponents are well organized and our society generally doesnt resonate with them

Platinum God n1n1 said:
I don't know much about Portugal but it turning into "corporate slave country" can't be worse than being poor
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"Being poor" and "corporate slave country" kind of goes hand in hand. You think GDP reflects your populace's wealth? America may have a "strong economy", but that hasn't stopped their people from unfortunately also having it rough, with a disproportionate cost of living, low pay, generally bad social services, etc
Yes portugal is not a wealthy country and neither are most of it's people, but what the fuck do you think there is to gain from privatizing public services and allowing lobbying???? Do you think life will magically get better as we now have to rely on the almighty CEOs' and the investors' grace to not raise the prices at no repercussion? Do you think we'll get better politicians if we legalize corruption???

Like what are you even trying to convey with that it seems like a poor attempt at defending liberalism
 
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Chlora said:
Our "socialist party", which granted is in power often, is mostly centrism that sometimes does good stuff occasionally and misspends often while everything gets worse because of mismanagement and poorly allocated manpower and resources. The REAL lefties, such as the green party, PAN, and BE are very alienated and dont ever get the spotlight because of our society's largely very backward and generally conservative thinking (mostly older people, which make most of the population), as well as propaganda made to ridicularize their efforts and goals. Not that they're without flaw, but they struggle to make any meaningful impact because their opponents are well organized and our society generally doesnt resonate with them


"Being poor" and "corporate slave country" kind of goes hand in hand. You think GDP reflects your populace's wealth? America may have a "strong economy", but that hasn't stopped their people from unfortunately also having it rough, with a disproportionate cost of living, low pay, generally bad social services, etc
Yes portugal is not a wealthy country and neither are most of it's people, but what the fuck do you think there is to gain from privatizing public services and allowing lobbying???? Do you think life will magically get better as we now have to rely on the almighty CEOs' and the investors' grace to not raise the prices at no repercussion? Do you think we'll get better politicians if we legalize corruption???

Like what are you even trying to convey with that it seems like a poor attempt at defending liberalism
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It's not even really liberalism, european liberalism in tandem with social democracy which allied with them in early 20th century still has some measures/protections to halt the worst effects of a fully unregulated free market society, the right-libertarians like Peter Thiel in tandem with US neo-fascists want to exacerbate even further, ultimately recreating feudalism.
 
SittinGamer said:
I know that this is a meme to an extent but I genuinely did not realize how bad it got. How in the world did he speak at the convention for an HOUR AND A HALF about nothing for 95% of it. I can't believe we live in a world where the trumpers dedicated enough to go to his coronation celebration were bored out of their minds asking when they could go home. If our old guy is off the ticket I say we play ball and hammer down on Trump.
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I posted it the way I usually post stuff but honestly, it's been crazy to see the opinion "no, Biden's perfectly mentally capable, you're just following media propaganda" when I've thought the actual answer to that whole thing is that they're both fucking nuts.
 
Local Dog said:
The US is the richest country and earth and "somehow" ridden with poverty, a vanishing middle class and a vast majority of people that will never own anything

A country that goes fully into corporate slavery is a country with a poor population and a high GDP exclusively driven by the top .1%
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How is the US ridden with poverty? These are ridiculous statements with nothing to support them. Compare the US relatively to the rest of the developed world and tell me how bad it is. Not relative to some utopian idea.
Here's a stat to you statement that vast majority of people will never own anything.

Screenshot_20240722-105828.png
 
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Platinum God n1n1 said:
How is the US ridden with poverty? These are ridiculous statements with nothing to support them. Compare the US relatively to the rest of the developed world and tell me how bad it is. Not relative to some utopian idea.
Here's a stay to you statement that vast majority of people will never own anything.

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Don’t want to get too involved on this particular point but this data isn’t really useful. This is just purely what the increases in homeownership are. It doesn’t show how those changes compare to different years for those same demographics, or the overall percentage of homeownership for those demographics, or how those percentages compare in the US vs other countries.

I have no idea what any of those stats are but don’t think you can use that data to argue your point without looking at those questions
 
RaikouLover said:
Well, you used ageist and ableist attacks to drive out the most successful Democratic president in a generation, the only one that beat Trump, and won TWO Democratic primaries, and you disenfranchised 14 million loyal party voters in the process. And you made victory in November considerably more difficult. I don't see how that is analogous to Bernie Sanders not winning a Democratic Primary. So excuse me for not showing empathy.
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you are framing the leader of the imperial core as a victim of ageism and ableism when he is a driver of policies and legislation which materially create the oppressions at hand. this is a really silly thing to say. our understanding of disability and age based oppression should not be of the frame of JOE BIDEN.
 
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