If you need a fast offensive fairy Pixilate Scream Tail is right there and can even run Booster Energy
-
Follow our Instagram!
-
Curious about what we're currently doing about bots? Check out the latest updates from staff in this thread.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Metagame SV Pokebilities AAA
- Thread starter Miss Crisis
- Start date
Ninetales-A is the only pokemon (at the moment) that inherently has a banned combination of abilities (Snow Warning + Snow Cloak), I honestly think that, using that as a baseline, would be a good place to draw a line in the sand and allow it to work without all of its abilities. Not the fact its 'Banned' overall to allow it, but only because its combination bans it - that it's ban was a byproduct of other actions (if it wasn't, it would have been banned before that happened).
It's not hard to find the steps on a 'slippery slope' to stop at, its just that people don't look for them when they're being fear mongered away from the steps/slope overall.
The only issue if it were to theoretically get allowed is HOW to decide which ability gets prioritized/which gets cut. Obviously, I think most of us would want Snow Warning, but the 'how' sets precedent for if similar issues arise in the future but the choice is not so clear cut.
Honestly, I don't mind either way (if nothing happens, or if it becomes allowed), but shutting down the conversation for fear of the 'slippery slope' doesn't seem healthy for any tier/meta; If it turns out it can't be coded in right and gets rejected, that's a valid reason not to do it, but not doing it because its the potential slope is scary is not valid.
Last edited:
Sure Pixelate ST is right there, but it's limited and predictable and it doesn't provide the same type of support Ninetales-A offers. If all I wanted was a fast offensive fairy, I could slap Pixelate onto a Comfey, Whimsicott, Ribombee, whatever. But Ninetales-A provides native Snow Warning and Veil, which further aids most team archetypes. It has a good defensive typing into the meta combined with its inherent Def boost from Snow, making it decently bulky even on offense. I think more importantly, it's just another fun option. The whole point of the game is to have fun and be creative, and the ONE thing holding back creativity on this front is the combination of Snow Cloak/Warning on the same mon being banned. I don't want to throw Pixelate Scream onto my team and start clicking Boomburst, I want to set up Snow and fire off SFLO Moonblast with one mon then switch out to my Slush Rush Beartic, because it's fun and it's the team I want to build.
I understand your sentiment here, but like Tknowledge said,
To use your own examples, Excadrill isn't banned because Sand Rush/Force is a banned combo, or else I could throw Sand Force on a Sandslash and have it banned, Excadrill itself is banned because of the potential it has to add SoR for example on top of that. Same deal with Arcanine-H, the combination of Rock Head/Intim/Flash Fire isn't banned, AH is banned due to its potential to further add onto that with Reckless. Same goes for Dragonite, Inner Focus + Multiscale isn't banned, Dragonite is due to its potential. Ninetales-A is very specifically banned because of its combination of native abilities, one of which is banned for use on non-native users, along with Sand Veil. If we're being honest, no one is running Mamo for Snow Cloak, no one is running Garchomp for Sand Veil, etc. I'd even go as far as to say Evasion abilities shouldn't have been allowed in the first place on native users. We already have a comprehensive list of abilities that are banned except for their base users, abilities banned outright, and ability combos that are banned, of which again, Ninetales-A is the only Pokemon that exists in Gen9 with one of the listed combos natively. I strongly believe it's not as deep and complex as it's being made out to be. If the coding is possible, disable the banned abilities on the mons that are banned soley because of their base ability/ies. That opens the gates to more usable Pokemon like Weezing, the Moody mons, and the trapping mons. Even in the cases where a Pokemon only has one ability natively and that ability is banned, in this case that refers to Gholdengo and Komala, that still leaves them usable with an AAA ability. I'd much rather these Pokemon be usable with most of their abilities instead of being banned outright.
I wanna take another (hopefully shorter) paragraph just to reiterate, I'm not advocating for banned mons such as the aforementioned Arcanine-H or Dragonite to start having abilities disabled until they're usable in the tier, I'm strictly saying that mons with natively banned abilities or combos should at least be CONSIDERED at having their banned abilities disabled. Don't just arbitrarily, or even hold a vote to, disable Infiltrator on Dragapult for example then set it loose in the tier. A lot of these Pokemon are banned because of their potential to add onto their already impressive legal combos, or being mons that are strong enough that adding onto them in any capacity makes them unhealthy.
There's some serious benefits imo to letting these mons, even if limited, into the meta. I've already said my piece 20x over about Ninetales, but the other mons banned solely on the merit of one of their abilities being banned entirely have some serious potential to liven up the meta and provide additional legitimate roles.
Komala would make a great AV/Regen Rapid Spin pivot.
Magnezone is firing off some seriously painful slow Volt Switches with Analytic and Hadron Engine, or Earth Eater/Levitate for more longevity.
Gothitelle with Competitive and Psychic Surge is a nuke in Trick Room.
Fluffy Weezing/Geezing is possibly the safest Meowscarada switch-in I could imagine, with potential to threaten Burn, or a strong Sludge/Strange Steam, and WA Geezing dunks on Secret Sword Keldeo, Hamu, Woger, Craw, and even soft checks Prim.
Slap Protosynthesis Scovillain on a Sun team and watch it rip through the opponent, while being safely hard walled by WBB Corv or ground immune Heatran.
Prankster Smeargle is the best hazard setter possible, and honestly might remained banned with different cheese sets like Jaw Lock or Power Trip, as I could definitely see Magic Guard or Protean being problematic.
Glalie exists.
You get my point I'm sure, but I'm just trying to be thorough and provide ample reasoning as to why it should be considered, while also trying to combat the immediate dismissal of the idea. It's not a slippery slope, it's just new, and I think it has serious potential to improve the tier, even if just slightly.
Sorry for the essay, I genuinely do appreciate the counsel and community feedback and responses <3
Disabling uncompetitive abilities obtained via Pokebilities is NOT gonna happen
Edit:
To make it more clear, the issue, aside from what's already mentioned, with this is that it violates both OMM and OM policy.
Specifically:
1) OMMs are not allowed to make mechanical deviations from their parent OMs (except in extreme circumstances where the tier would be unplayable otherwise such as MnM Doubles). These tiers are primarily played via challenge code, and despite its permaladder status it is still Pokebilities + AAA, so any Pokebilities related change will have to be done with the Pokebilities OM.
2) OMs must be one broad, all encompassing rule (see the linked post). "Pokémon have all of their released abilities simultaneously" is the rule in this scenario, and disabling abilities like Snow Cloak breaks that rule.
Edit:
To make it more clear, the issue, aside from what's already mentioned, with this is that it violates both OMM and OM policy.
Specifically:
1) OMMs are not allowed to make mechanical deviations from their parent OMs (except in extreme circumstances where the tier would be unplayable otherwise such as MnM Doubles). These tiers are primarily played via challenge code, and despite its permaladder status it is still Pokebilities + AAA, so any Pokebilities related change will have to be done with the Pokebilities OM.
2) OMs must be one broad, all encompassing rule (see the linked post). "Pokémon have all of their released abilities simultaneously" is the rule in this scenario, and disabling abilities like Snow Cloak breaks that rule.
Last edited:
This is my final piece on this and I'm dropping it. (and thank you to HiZo)
At the end of the day, my take on this is allowing things like this to be in the tier with exceptions takes away from the entire point of the tier. If we're going to have the metagame revolve around Pokemon with all their natives abilities +1 added on, it doesn't belong in the tier to have mons bypassing these fundamental rules of the metagame because... I really don't understand the argument to be honest. The tier is lacking diversity? Go fiddle around in the teambuilder with the options that there already are, I can assure you there are plenty of 'fish in the sea' so to speak for off-meta options you can pick from to make work.
I trust this gets my point across as decently and clearly as possible and that I do not need to reiterate myself further.
Are there any discussions surrounding Meowscarada? It feels very restrictive to build and play around sets like banded adaptability if you aren’t running something like a fluffy Corv, regen Cobalion, or sap sipper waters that can take knock. The fact that it can take helmet off of these walls is probably the most frustrating thing since it’s pretty difficult to punish it for clicking taxel. Even non-banded sets seem to pretty reliably be able to take a ko when they come in against more offensive teams. Of course, if this is just a flaw with my building or playing, I’d be more than happy to take some advice. Maybe I just need to be better at predicting what it will click lol
There’s been quite a bit of discussion about it actually, so much so that an upcoming suspect was announced in this post. If you wanna a pretty decent check to it you can run is Tablets of Ruin Corv. Intimidate Pecharunt also does a pretty good job. Also just prioritizing keeping hazards up on their side of the field as most meows aren’t running boots
Last edited:
A BRIEF DISCUSSION ON POKEBILITIES AAA TIERING IN RELATION TO OM MASHUPS AND OTHER METAGAMES TIERING POLICY, PROCEDURE, AND PRECEDENTS
Hello everyone, it's time for a very special announcement! There has been a lot of recent discussion of specific tiering elements in PokeAAA, mostly centered around Ninetales-Alola and how it is 'soft-banned' because a ban on its base abilities of Snow Cloak + Snow Warning. It's time to address these topics definitively and move on to more meaningful and productive conversations.
Snow Cloak and Snow Warning
Alolan Ninetales is unfortunately not useable in this format because of its combination of Snow Cloak and Snow Warning as base abilities. This is a result of a very important long-standing policy decision: evasion boosting is broken, both conceptually and in practice. Evasion Clause is present in *every* singles format bar AG for a reason; it's uncompetitive, not fun, and being forced to prepare for your opponent using Evasion tactics actively hinders your team against people who are taking this game seriously. We as a community have agreed upon this since at least 2010, probably longer (anectdotal evidence as early as 2007). Alolan Ninetales has an automatic, drawback-free evasion boost that doesn't require it to take a turn or use a teammate to set up. Ninetales's built-in dodge chance absolutely made a difference in almost every game it appeared in. While Ninetales wasn't exactly a powerhouse or a defensive staple, its ability to cheese matches and pull out entirely undeserved wins makes it an unhealthy presence in the tier, which takes away from actual competitive gameplay.
Slight tangent: Opportunity Cost
Snow Cloak and Sand Veil are not banned in Almost Any Ability, which this format is derived from. Why are they restricted here? This is because of the concept of opportunity cost. In Almost Any Ability, using Snow Cloak requires a Pokemon to give up an ability that actually does something consistently. In nearly every scenario in AAA, Snow Cloak will be almost useless, thanks to its telegraphed nature which requires either a Snow Warning user (also suffers from opportunity cost) or Slowking's Chilly Reception. All of this makes Snow Cloak a laughably bad choice, as you are forcing yourself to run two Pokemon (I guess you could self-set with Snowscape but that seems even worse) for a simple evasion boost, when that Pokemon could have gotten away with running a defensive ability that provides more utility for its team.
This isn't an issue in PokeAAA. Now, a Pokemon can run Snow Cloak without giving up the opportunity to use other abilities. Specifically, Alolan Ninetales does not need to heed the opportunity cost at all, and is free to run other abilities like Prankster, Well-Baked Body, and Sheer Force. Not only that, but Snow Cloak is able to activate without another Pokemon dedicated to setting Snow! Being able to self-set the conditions to activate evasion is broken, much like self-setting the conditions to double one's speed with Rain Dance + Swift Swim. Notably, Shared Power, which is the only other metagame that allows one to stack this many abilities on a single Pokemon, also has Snow Cloak and Sand Veil banned because removing the opportunity cost to use it makes it extremely uncompetitive, while generations with permanent Sand have Sand Veil banned for the same reason.
[everything that I have said about Snow Cloak + Snow Warning that isn't specifically about Ninetales also applies to Sand Stream + Sand Veil]
Disabling uncompetitive base abilities
Just like HiZo and Ivy have made clear, this is not going to happen for several reasons:
1. This requires a modification to the very programming of Pokebilities. OM Mashups are explicitly derivative of the mechanics of their base formats, and Pokebilities is not going to change its code to support an offshoot metagame.
2. This goes against the spirit of Other Metagames, which are all created and tiered with the core conceit of Adding One Rule. We are not going to have formats which Add One Rule Except For The Times We Ignore It So We Can Use Certain Pokemon. It's unwieldy, difficult to explain, and even more difficult to justify. OM Mashups are tiered like Other Metagames and this tiering policy will not be deviated from so we can use specific Pokemon that we think would be cool to play with.
3. Speaking of justification, which abilities are we going to disable? While there are obvious cases, like Magnet Pull on Magnezone or Neutralizing Gas on Weezing, would we be doing this to other Pokemon too? Do we take Magic Guard off of Reuniclus to let it back into the tier? Should we disable Sword of Ruin on Chien-Pao, just for it to run Sword of Ruin like its primary AAA set?
Like we made clear earlier, Pokebilities AAA will not be implementing tiering decisions based on speculation.
For the first time in OM Mashups history, these topics are now blacklisted. Further discussion about disabling uncompetitive base abilities and unrestricting evasion ability combinations will be deleted. Thanks for participating in this conversation, glad to have settled this once and for all!
Hello everyone, it's time for a very special announcement! There has been a lot of recent discussion of specific tiering elements in PokeAAA, mostly centered around Ninetales-Alola and how it is 'soft-banned' because a ban on its base abilities of Snow Cloak + Snow Warning. It's time to address these topics definitively and move on to more meaningful and productive conversations.
Snow Cloak and Snow Warning
Alolan Ninetales is unfortunately not useable in this format because of its combination of Snow Cloak and Snow Warning as base abilities. This is a result of a very important long-standing policy decision: evasion boosting is broken, both conceptually and in practice. Evasion Clause is present in *every* singles format bar AG for a reason; it's uncompetitive, not fun, and being forced to prepare for your opponent using Evasion tactics actively hinders your team against people who are taking this game seriously. We as a community have agreed upon this since at least 2010, probably longer (anectdotal evidence as early as 2007). Alolan Ninetales has an automatic, drawback-free evasion boost that doesn't require it to take a turn or use a teammate to set up. Ninetales's built-in dodge chance absolutely made a difference in almost every game it appeared in. While Ninetales wasn't exactly a powerhouse or a defensive staple, its ability to cheese matches and pull out entirely undeserved wins makes it an unhealthy presence in the tier, which takes away from actual competitive gameplay.
Slight tangent: Opportunity Cost
Snow Cloak and Sand Veil are not banned in Almost Any Ability, which this format is derived from. Why are they restricted here? This is because of the concept of opportunity cost. In Almost Any Ability, using Snow Cloak requires a Pokemon to give up an ability that actually does something consistently. In nearly every scenario in AAA, Snow Cloak will be almost useless, thanks to its telegraphed nature which requires either a Snow Warning user (also suffers from opportunity cost) or Slowking's Chilly Reception. All of this makes Snow Cloak a laughably bad choice, as you are forcing yourself to run two Pokemon (I guess you could self-set with Snowscape but that seems even worse) for a simple evasion boost, when that Pokemon could have gotten away with running a defensive ability that provides more utility for its team.
This isn't an issue in PokeAAA. Now, a Pokemon can run Snow Cloak without giving up the opportunity to use other abilities. Specifically, Alolan Ninetales does not need to heed the opportunity cost at all, and is free to run other abilities like Prankster, Well-Baked Body, and Sheer Force. Not only that, but Snow Cloak is able to activate without another Pokemon dedicated to setting Snow! Being able to self-set the conditions to activate evasion is broken, much like self-setting the conditions to double one's speed with Rain Dance + Swift Swim. Notably, Shared Power, which is the only other metagame that allows one to stack this many abilities on a single Pokemon, also has Snow Cloak and Sand Veil banned because removing the opportunity cost to use it makes it extremely uncompetitive, while generations with permanent Sand have Sand Veil banned for the same reason.
[everything that I have said about Snow Cloak + Snow Warning that isn't specifically about Ninetales also applies to Sand Stream + Sand Veil]
Disabling uncompetitive base abilities
Just like HiZo and Ivy have made clear, this is not going to happen for several reasons:
1. This requires a modification to the very programming of Pokebilities. OM Mashups are explicitly derivative of the mechanics of their base formats, and Pokebilities is not going to change its code to support an offshoot metagame.
2. This goes against the spirit of Other Metagames, which are all created and tiered with the core conceit of Adding One Rule. We are not going to have formats which Add One Rule Except For The Times We Ignore It So We Can Use Certain Pokemon. It's unwieldy, difficult to explain, and even more difficult to justify. OM Mashups are tiered like Other Metagames and this tiering policy will not be deviated from so we can use specific Pokemon that we think would be cool to play with.
3. Speaking of justification, which abilities are we going to disable? While there are obvious cases, like Magnet Pull on Magnezone or Neutralizing Gas on Weezing, would we be doing this to other Pokemon too? Do we take Magic Guard off of Reuniclus to let it back into the tier? Should we disable Sword of Ruin on Chien-Pao, just for it to run Sword of Ruin like its primary AAA set?
Like we made clear earlier, Pokebilities AAA will not be implementing tiering decisions based on speculation.
For the first time in OM Mashups history, these topics are now blacklisted. Further discussion about disabling uncompetitive base abilities and unrestricting evasion ability combinations will be deleted. Thanks for participating in this conversation, glad to have settled this once and for all!
some brief thoughts on the current VR pre meow suspect. this list might be a little all over the place im just looking at the vr and things are jumping out at me one by one
- Tusk is such a good mon and it should easily be A tier (A- at the very least). its a super good physical sponge and you can throw water absorb on it to destroy every samu-h ever. but its a super solid hands check and provide a ton of role compression as a rocker and a spinner. almost forgot but its also probably the best lokix answer other than fluffy corv
- Ting Lu should probably be A+. its up there for most splashable mons in the tier and is a super good check to so much annoying stuff like lati, moth, iron crown, the list goes on.
- zama should be A its just that good. also add and bold long reach on its abilities
- bold long reach + add adapt, you dont need to use your SoR slot on a mon that gets stab on everything + is often choiced anyway
- prima should be at least B+ because of how good it is into Keld and Samu-H. it also has decent phys bulk and canbe a midground into a good amount of stuff
- bold thick fat
- add galvanize i know its a meme but its a legit rilla set. this mon is something yall are sleeping on and im gonna prove it soon
- beads should be bolded imo
- add intim its a good set
- we getting kinda close to shitter territory but i really like fluffy and regen glimm as you want to be getting up as many tspikes as possible so you like the longevity. its also not a terrible mon due to its SpA and serviceable movepool
- this thing is also a pretty decent regenvester so add regen
- Tusk is such a good mon and it should easily be A tier (A- at the very least). its a super good physical sponge and you can throw water absorb on it to destroy every samu-h ever. but its a super solid hands check and provide a ton of role compression as a rocker and a spinner. almost forgot but its also probably the best lokix answer other than fluffy corv - Ting Lu should probably be A+. its up there for most splashable mons in the tier and is a super good check to so much annoying stuff like lati, moth, iron crown, the list goes on. - zama should be A its just that good. also add and bold long reach on its abilities - bold long reach + add adapt, you dont need to use your SoR slot on a mon that gets stab on everything + is often choiced anyway - prima should be at least B+ because of how good it is into Keld and Samu-H. it also has decent phys bulk and canbe a midground into a good amount of stuff - bold thick fat - add galvanize i know its a meme but its a legit rilla set. this mon is something yall are sleeping on and im gonna prove it soon - beads should be bolded imo - add intim its a good set - we getting kinda close to shitter territory but i really like fluffy and regen glimm as you want to be getting up as many tspikes as possible so you like the longevity. its also not a terrible mon due to its SpA and serviceable movepool - this thing is also a pretty decent regenvester so add regenHit rank 1 again after dropping a few hundred elo, you know the story. However, this post is going to be a bit different.
Ok so, instead of doing an analysis of the team (it's pretty standard anyways), I'm going to spend this time talking about my thoughts on Meowscarada, especially after using MGLO Meow to get to rank 1 on ladder. (One thing I will say is Diancie is specifically EV'd to always live 2 +2 Kilo Hurricanes after lefties recovery).
So, Meowscarada is the definitive strongest offensive pokemon in the format, and I think it definitely needs to be banned personally (we shall see what happens during/after the suspect if that ends up coming to fruition). It has all of the tools that it needs to be able to muscle through every single possible check in the format, with VERY few things being able to reliably counter it.
Heatran? Low Kick reliably OHKOs (or CB non SoR having a 62.5% chance to OHKO full physdef Heatran), Knock absolutely cripples Tran and Long Reach lets it bypass Flame Body burns. Corviknight? Has to check MULTIPLE other threats, SpD Corvi really isn't checking Meow, and it REALLY doesn't like losing its item and if worn down to really not that low of HP can be 'reliably' (it's TAxel at the end of the day) 2HKOd by Triple Axel. Etc. etc. Sword of Ruin rips teams apart through sheer power, Long Reach lets Meow bypass Fluffy and ways to punish contact mons, and Magic Guard lets it bypass the few ways to somewhat reliably deal with Meow in residual hazard damage while letting it potentially very comfortably sit in Overgrow Range while being a constant threat as it is able to switch its move on the fly. The only real 'reliable' checks to Meowscarada are niche picks like Regen Tauros Blaze that can resist most of its strongest STABs while not being weak to its other coverage.
It can ALWAYS make progress regardless of switch-ins however with the combination of a strong STAB Knock Off, can muscle through the vast majority of defense boosters with Flower Trick, has insanely strong coverage in 120 BP Low Kicks and Triple Axels (that can break through sashes or Sturdy), and/or has a strong STAB Uturn for momentum or priority in Sucker Punch. All this while having one of the best speed tiers in the format outspeeding the bloated 350 speed tier, mons like Greninja, and OHKOing a majority of the offensive mons in the format (or defensive mons with super effective coverage).
It is not just an offensive presence but THE offensive presence that you HAVE to account for in the teambuilder quite literally every step of the way, and if you don't have a pure dedicated answer to it (this team included that I shared btw) you WILL get run over by it if the person using it pilots it well with good pivots to get it in safely.
Anywho, enjoy the team, and happy laddering lovelies.
Ok so, instead of doing an analysis of the team (it's pretty standard anyways), I'm going to spend this time talking about my thoughts on Meowscarada, especially after using MGLO Meow to get to rank 1 on ladder. (One thing I will say is Diancie is specifically EV'd to always live 2 +2 Kilo Hurricanes after lefties recovery).
So, Meowscarada is the definitive strongest offensive pokemon in the format, and I think it definitely needs to be banned personally (we shall see what happens during/after the suspect if that ends up coming to fruition). It has all of the tools that it needs to be able to muscle through every single possible check in the format, with VERY few things being able to reliably counter it.
Heatran? Low Kick reliably OHKOs (or CB non SoR having a 62.5% chance to OHKO full physdef Heatran), Knock absolutely cripples Tran and Long Reach lets it bypass Flame Body burns. Corviknight? Has to check MULTIPLE other threats, SpD Corvi really isn't checking Meow, and it REALLY doesn't like losing its item and if worn down to really not that low of HP can be 'reliably' (it's TAxel at the end of the day) 2HKOd by Triple Axel. Etc. etc. Sword of Ruin rips teams apart through sheer power, Long Reach lets Meow bypass Fluffy and ways to punish contact mons, and Magic Guard lets it bypass the few ways to somewhat reliably deal with Meow in residual hazard damage while letting it potentially very comfortably sit in Overgrow Range while being a constant threat as it is able to switch its move on the fly. The only real 'reliable' checks to Meowscarada are niche picks like Regen Tauros Blaze that can resist most of its strongest STABs while not being weak to its other coverage.
It can ALWAYS make progress regardless of switch-ins however with the combination of a strong STAB Knock Off, can muscle through the vast majority of defense boosters with Flower Trick, has insanely strong coverage in 120 BP Low Kicks and Triple Axels (that can break through sashes or Sturdy), and/or has a strong STAB Uturn for momentum or priority in Sucker Punch. All this while having one of the best speed tiers in the format outspeeding the bloated 350 speed tier, mons like Greninja, and OHKOing a majority of the offensive mons in the format (or defensive mons with super effective coverage).
It is not just an offensive presence but THE offensive presence that you HAVE to account for in the teambuilder quite literally every step of the way, and if you don't have a pure dedicated answer to it (this team included that I shared btw) you WILL get run over by it if the person using it pilots it well with good pivots to get it in safely.
Anywho, enjoy the team, and happy laddering lovelies.
Meowscarada is very powerful indeed. Didn't even know it got low kick because flowertrick/knockoff/u-turn/tripleaxel is so good but that's another thing to look out for.Hit rank 1 again after dropping a few hundred elo, you know the story. However, this post is going to be a bit different.
View attachment 841024
Ok so, instead of doing an analysis of the team (it's pretty standard anyways), I'm going to spend this time talking about my thoughts on Meowscarada, especially after using MGLO Meow to get to rank 1 on ladder. (One thing I will say is Diancie is specifically EV'd to always live 2 +2 Kilo Hurricanes after lefties recovery).
So, Meowscarada is the definitive strongest offensive pokemon in the format, and I think it definitely needs to be banned personally (we shall see what happens during/after the suspect if that ends up coming to fruition). It has all of the tools that it needs to be able to muscle through every single possible check in the format, with VERY few things being able to reliably counter it.
Heatran? Low Kick reliably OHKOs (or CB non SoR having a 62.5% chance to OHKO full physdef Heatran), Knock absolutely cripples Tran and Long Reach lets it bypass Flame Body burns. Corviknight? Has to check MULTIPLE other threats, SpD Corvi really isn't checking Meow, and it REALLY doesn't like losing its item and if worn down to really not that low of HP can be 'reliably' (it's TAxel at the end of the day) 2HKOd by Triple Axel. Etc. etc. Sword of Ruin rips teams apart through sheer power, Long Reach lets Meow bypass Fluffy and ways to punish contact mons, and Magic Guard lets it bypass the few ways to somewhat reliably deal with Meow in residual hazard damage while letting it potentially very comfortably sit in Overgrow Range while being a constant threat as it is able to switch its move on the fly. The only real 'reliable' checks to Meowscarada are niche picks like Regen Tauros Blaze that can resist most of its strongest STABs while not being weak to its other coverage.
It can ALWAYS make progress regardless of switch-ins however with the combination of a strong STAB Knock Off, can muscle through the vast majority of defense boosters with Flower Trick, has insanely strong coverage in 120 BP Low Kicks and Triple Axels (that can break through sashes or Sturdy), and/or has a strong STAB Uturn for momentum or priority in Sucker Punch. All this while having one of the best speed tiers in the format outspeeding the bloated 350 speed tier, mons like Greninja, and OHKOing a majority of the offensive mons in the format (or defensive mons with super effective coverage).
It is not just an offensive presence but THE offensive presence that you HAVE to account for in the teambuilder quite literally every step of the way, and if you don't have a pure dedicated answer to it (this team included that I shared btw) you WILL get run over by it if the person using it pilots it well with good pivots to get it in safely.
Anywho, enjoy the team, and happy laddering lovelies.
We need to ban that damned cat broHit rank 1 again after dropping a few hundred elo, you know the story. However, this post is going to be a bit different.
View attachment 841024
Ok so, instead of doing an analysis of the team (it's pretty standard anyways), I'm going to spend this time talking about my thoughts on Meowscarada, especially after using MGLO Meow to get to rank 1 on ladder. (One thing I will say is Diancie is specifically EV'd to always live 2 +2 Kilo Hurricanes after lefties recovery).
So, Meowscarada is the definitive strongest offensive pokemon in the format, and I think it definitely needs to be banned personally (we shall see what happens during/after the suspect if that ends up coming to fruition). It has all of the tools that it needs to be able to muscle through every single possible check in the format, with VERY few things being able to reliably counter it.
Heatran? Low Kick reliably OHKOs (or CB non SoR having a 62.5% chance to OHKO full physdef Heatran), Knock absolutely cripples Tran and Long Reach lets it bypass Flame Body burns. Corviknight? Has to check MULTIPLE other threats, SpD Corvi really isn't checking Meow, and it REALLY doesn't like losing its item and if worn down to really not that low of HP can be 'reliably' (it's TAxel at the end of the day) 2HKOd by Triple Axel. Etc. etc. Sword of Ruin rips teams apart through sheer power, Long Reach lets Meow bypass Fluffy and ways to punish contact mons, and Magic Guard lets it bypass the few ways to somewhat reliably deal with Meow in residual hazard damage while letting it potentially very comfortably sit in Overgrow Range while being a constant threat as it is able to switch its move on the fly. The only real 'reliable' checks to Meowscarada are niche picks like Regen Tauros Blaze that can resist most of its strongest STABs while not being weak to its other coverage.
It can ALWAYS make progress regardless of switch-ins however with the combination of a strong STAB Knock Off, can muscle through the vast majority of defense boosters with Flower Trick, has insanely strong coverage in 120 BP Low Kicks and Triple Axels (that can break through sashes or Sturdy), and/or has a strong STAB Uturn for momentum or priority in Sucker Punch. All this while having one of the best speed tiers in the format outspeeding the bloated 350 speed tier, mons like Greninja, and OHKOing a majority of the offensive mons in the format (or defensive mons with super effective coverage).
It is not just an offensive presence but THE offensive presence that you HAVE to account for in the teambuilder quite literally every step of the way, and if you don't have a pure dedicated answer to it (this team included that I shared btw) you WILL get run over by it if the person using it pilots it well with good pivots to get it in safely.
Anywho, enjoy the team, and happy laddering lovelies.
Last edited:
Two things I noticed from these recent posts:
1. Magic Guard should be listed for one of Meowscarada’s abilities
2. It’s probably time for a suspect test (for meowscarada)
These are not my calls though, that’s ultimately up to the counsel to make these decisions.
1. Magic Guard should be listed for one of Meowscarada’s abilities
2. It’s probably time for a suspect test (for meowscarada)
These are not my calls though, that’s ultimately up to the counsel to make these decisions.
Last edited:
https://pokepast.es/10a66e47cfe97115 I’m currently learning the PokeAAAbilities meta as I play something I’m not too high on ladder but this Munkidori I’ve been using has been hard carrying most of my games! I originally ran with boots + parting shot which is another good alternative. I’m experimenting with offensive mons/cores to take advantage of this. Let me know your thoughts…
Munkidori Glowking Larp Balance V.20x
Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fluffy
Level: 99
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Protect
- Scald
- Wish
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
Munkidori (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 232 Def / 32 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fake Out
- Future Sight
- Psychic Noise
- U-turn
Munkidori Glowking Larp Balance V.20x
Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fluffy
Level: 99
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Protect
- Scald
- Wish
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
Munkidori (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 232 Def / 32 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fake Out
- Future Sight
- Psychic Noise
- U-turn
Attachments
where's the other half? NVM I can't read. do meowscarada keldeo zama or smth.
I think I could do better than Keldeo, no? Having justified ain’t doing anything for us so I feel it’s weird to use the standard AAA mon
Keldeo is banned in AAA for a reason. Look at the calcs that Specs PrimSea hits, it doesn't need any native abilities to be bonkers strong. That being said, I'd argue you don't need a super offensive core to take advantage of Munkidori, since its main advantage compared to other psychic Regens (Slowkings) is being able to spread poison easily with Fake Out providing safety compared to Fez. Using a single reliable breaker like CB Meowscarada and then other defensive mons that can take advantage of the ability for the team to slowly wear down the enemy with poison damage (and also shore up the fact that Munkidori AIN'T all that on the specially defensive side) could help.
I got to #11 on the ladder last night before you beat me!! Here’s the current build: https://pokepast.es/8c56e38f07c3db96
I’ll see about hitting rank #1 today if I can. I sent the team to Joey I’m sure he’ll use it at some point
https://pokepast.es/ae6564fbd8cb7793 been tanking my ladder with this wonderful breloom regice team
So, going to be real. This is prob gonna be my last real team I share (or at least one I'm anywhere near happy with) for the next minute and a half. Been getting a bit burnt out, and just haven't been able to climb back up to Rank 1 (I did manage to hit like, Rank 3 iirc with this team though). REGARDLESS, the team has a very fun tech that I would like to immortalize here and share (also it feels strangely queer themed, fitting for the last day of Pride Month).
Misty Meow Balance
https://pokepast.es/93693f3c72536e99
Meowscarada @ Choice Band
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Flower Trick
- Triple Axel
The star of the show and the bane of this tier, has actual plot armor. So, looks like a pretty standard Meow set, Jolly max max, Knock, Uturn, Flower Trick Axel, and... MISTY SURGE? Yes, I know, I continue to 'overcook' as the non-believers say. Misty Surge does a LOT for Meowscarada, and allows it to have lasting pressure on the field even after it switches out.
So, why Misty Surge? Well, it solves a LOT of small interactions that Meowscarada REALLY likes. It resets terrain, allowing you to bypass Priority Grassy Glide, weaken PsySpam teams, but most importantly- STOP QUARK SPEED BOOST. This lets you pressure things like Moth and Crown under ETerrain, and blow them up with CB Knock. It also gives you immunity to status (and your team, and the enemy team) so you stomp on defensive Breloom and fuck over most self-status mons, lets you not be threatened by Static and Flame Body (which is, imo, the biggest benefit to Long Reach), and keep your own team healthy.
BUT BUT BUT That is NOT the biggest upside to Misty Terrain. The biggest reason to use this, is the built-in dragon resistance for yourself and your entire team. You not only due to how terrain/weather effects work in mons, know if say, the Hadron Lati you're facing is scarf or not, but it doesn't matter! A Modest, Beads of Ruin Scarf Lati cannot OHKO Meowscarada with Draco Meteor in Misty Terrain. This, in turn, also helps you weather the storm against Dragspam mons like Regidrago, giving Slowking a resistance to dragon effectively and letting it wall these threats. It makes it so defensive, slower paced teams like this aren't required to run a fairy or else you auto-lose to DragSpam. It has issues, you really miss the safety of Long Reach letting you not worry about Helmet/Rough Skin chip, and the power boost from Adapt/SoR- but the benefits IF YOU BUILD YOUR TEAM AROUND THEM are so, so worth it. (yes I channeled all of my energy into yapping about this cool tech).
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Liquidation
- Crunch
Mr. Craw blows shit up. Idk what you want me to say lmfao, but real talk the team needed a wallbreaker pretty desperately, and Mr. Craw is one of the best in the tier. Could arguably replace it with Adapt Freeze Dry Mamo? But I settled on Craw.
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-turn
- Defog
...yeah I don't have the energy to make a joke for it this time. It's Corvi.
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Scorching Sands
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Stone Edge
Good ol' chomp. Using Stone Edge on it to help against Talon, because the team is uber weak to it otherwise, and Scorching Sands is really greedy with Misty Meow but I like the fact it hits things like defensive Tusk harder while having a chance to burn. Has come in clutch a few times.
Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Chilly Reception
- Earthquake
Standard Slowking. EQ for Deso Heatran, Moth and Glowking.
Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Wind Rider
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drum Beating
- U-turn
- Grassy Glide
- Low Kick
I do not care that Wind Rider Rilla is kinda fake, I will keep trying to make it work. Drum Beating provides some nice utility in a pretty hefty and strong grass move that doesn't recoil you like Wood Hammer, and Low Kick over Knock to blast things like Heatran and Hoodra. It ain't amazing, but it's an amazing check to Hurricane spammers like Zap and Torn-T while providing pivoting and priority.
And uh, yeah, that's the team. Happy Pride everybody, never stop being your true selves and good luck laddering.
https://pokepast.es/93693f3c72536e99
Meowscarada @ Choice Band
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Flower Trick
- Triple Axel
The star of the show and the bane of this tier, has actual plot armor. So, looks like a pretty standard Meow set, Jolly max max, Knock, Uturn, Flower Trick Axel, and... MISTY SURGE? Yes, I know, I continue to 'overcook' as the non-believers say. Misty Surge does a LOT for Meowscarada, and allows it to have lasting pressure on the field even after it switches out.
So, why Misty Surge? Well, it solves a LOT of small interactions that Meowscarada REALLY likes. It resets terrain, allowing you to bypass Priority Grassy Glide, weaken PsySpam teams, but most importantly- STOP QUARK SPEED BOOST. This lets you pressure things like Moth and Crown under ETerrain, and blow them up with CB Knock. It also gives you immunity to status (and your team, and the enemy team) so you stomp on defensive Breloom and fuck over most self-status mons, lets you not be threatened by Static and Flame Body (which is, imo, the biggest benefit to Long Reach), and keep your own team healthy.
BUT BUT BUT That is NOT the biggest upside to Misty Terrain. The biggest reason to use this, is the built-in dragon resistance for yourself and your entire team. You not only due to how terrain/weather effects work in mons, know if say, the Hadron Lati you're facing is scarf or not, but it doesn't matter! A Modest, Beads of Ruin Scarf Lati cannot OHKO Meowscarada with Draco Meteor in Misty Terrain. This, in turn, also helps you weather the storm against Dragspam mons like Regidrago, giving Slowking a resistance to dragon effectively and letting it wall these threats. It makes it so defensive, slower paced teams like this aren't required to run a fairy or else you auto-lose to DragSpam. It has issues, you really miss the safety of Long Reach letting you not worry about Helmet/Rough Skin chip, and the power boost from Adapt/SoR- but the benefits IF YOU BUILD YOUR TEAM AROUND THEM are so, so worth it. (yes I channeled all of my energy into yapping about this cool tech).
Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off
- Liquidation
- Crunch
Mr. Craw blows shit up. Idk what you want me to say lmfao, but real talk the team needed a wallbreaker pretty desperately, and Mr. Craw is one of the best in the tier. Could arguably replace it with Adapt Freeze Dry Mamo? But I settled on Craw.
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-turn
- Defog
...yeah I don't have the energy to make a joke for it this time. It's Corvi.
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Def / 8 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Scorching Sands
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Stone Edge
Good ol' chomp. Using Stone Edge on it to help against Talon, because the team is uber weak to it otherwise, and Scorching Sands is really greedy with Misty Meow but I like the fact it hits things like defensive Tusk harder while having a chance to burn. Has come in clutch a few times.
Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Chilly Reception
- Earthquake
Standard Slowking. EQ for Deso Heatran, Moth and Glowking.
Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Wind Rider
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drum Beating
- U-turn
- Grassy Glide
- Low Kick
I do not care that Wind Rider Rilla is kinda fake, I will keep trying to make it work. Drum Beating provides some nice utility in a pretty hefty and strong grass move that doesn't recoil you like Wood Hammer, and Low Kick over Knock to blast things like Heatran and Hoodra. It ain't amazing, but it's an amazing check to Hurricane spammers like Zap and Torn-T while providing pivoting and priority.
And uh, yeah, that's the team. Happy Pride everybody, never stop being your true selves and good luck laddering.
ANOTHER BRIEF DISCUSSION ON POKEBILITIES AAA TIERING IN RELATION TO OM MASHUPS AND OTHER METAGAMES TIERING POLICY, PROCEDURE, AND PRECEDENTS
Pokebilities AAA is far and away the most popular Mashup in our community’s history. It has had some unique challenges so far, especially given the disconnect between Mashups culture and site-wide tiering policy. As I explained in the post undoing the tiering fiasco I caused, every Mashup has historically been locked into Quickbans as the only viable form of tiering action; smaller playerbases and lack of access to ladders meant that Suspect Tests were out of the question, while Suspect Tournaments were grueling activities that nobody liked and were rarely worth the effort. These factors meant that most Mashups have never been subject to the higher tiering standards of Other Metagames, and Smogon as a whole.
When I started to get PokeAAA up and running last generation, I made the (unilateral, at the time) decision to create several complex bans which prevented the usage of weather setting abilities and weather speed boosting abilities on the same Pokemon. This was seen as the reasonable option at the time, as PokeAAA had a small playerbase and a wide variety of Pokemon with weather speed abilities. Banning over a dozen otherwise unproblematic Pokemon because of one set being broken on all of them seemed like overkill. After all, if the only issue was Primordial Sea + Swift Swim, and neither Primordial Sea, Swift Swim, or the Pokemon abusing it were broken, why would we not just ban the root cause? I championed this policy under the general principle currently enshrined in section 2a of the OM Tiering Policy and Guidelines, where if an ability is breaking more than 3-5 Pokemon it can be justified to ban the ability instead.
While this could arguably have been the right thing to do at the time, PokeAAA is no longer a tiny little pet project. PokeAAA now has the most popular ladder of the Other Metagames section, and will be featured in the upcoming AAAPL. We’re going to be holding ourselves to higher standards, and tier PokeAAA like one of the larger Other Metagames. Per section 3 of the OM Tiering Policy and Guidelines, as well as the wider Smogon tiering precedent, all formats should strive to avoid complex bans wherever applicable. This format does not *need* complex bans to function; we thought it was nice, clean, and convenient, but ultimately the format will be playable without them.
Effective immediately, Pokebilities AAA will be removing all complex bans from the format and implementing several changes to achieve the same effects, in accordance with wider Tiering Guidelines:
-Restricting Emergency Exit and Wimp Out; this achieves the same effect as the complex ban with Regenerator in the absence of Golisopod and Wimpod.
-Restricting Hadron Engine; Hadron Engine is significantly more broken when combined with Quark Drive than Electric Surge, and is the only part of that combination that is extremely broken.
-Adding Evasion Abilities Clause; this will replace the complex bans on self-evasion boosting, while also preventing the niche cases of evasion, like sending in Mamoswine after Slowking’s Chilly Reception, or Sandaconda using Sand Spit to get around the Sand Stream complex ban.
-Quickbanning the most heinous abusers of Desolate Land + Chlorophyll, Primordial Sea + Swift Swim, and so on. The council has voted to start with a conservative initial wave of bans, only targeting the most heinous abusers of weather ability combinations. The rest of the potentially broken users will be given due process after the changes are implemented.
Other changes implemented alongside this:
-Two Ability Clause has been implemented. Previously set to 1 to fit in line with Almost Any Ability, this number is more or less arbitrary, as the primary use of Ability Clause is to limit the amount of Regenerator users on a team. Because PokeAAA already has a hard limit of two Regenerator users per team, Two Ability Clause has been selected to accompany this.
-Cetitan, Drednaw, Floatzel, Kingdra, Venusaur, Victreebel, and Poliwrath have been quickbanned for their extremely potent speed-boosting weather abuse sets. All of these Pokemon are unstoppable when able to double their speed, recieve a boost, and get around nearly every form of counterplay available to them. This set of bans was part of an initial slate to cull the most obviously broken Weather abusers. This slate included every potential abuser and these were the Pokemon the council decided were not worth entertaining in the tier.
-Serperior and Zoroark-Hisui have been unbanned. These changes were long-overdue, and were simply waiting on a Meowscarada suspect test that is no longer in the works.
-Houndstone has been banned and Last Respects has been unbanned, to keep in line with OM tiering policy.
-Revival Blessing has been unbanned. This was a legacy ban from the beginning of the generation and Revival Blessing is not relevant nowadays.
Access to Belly Drum and Swords Dance pushes it over the edge. Snow also boosts its defense which gives it even more opportunities to set up.
Swords Dance, fantastic secondary STAB and pseudo-STABs on biting moves.
Wave Crash is extremely strong (stronger than anything Barraskewda could put out), and has access to coverage, Bulk Up, and mixed sets.
Kingdra is the Pokemon that I created the Primordial Sea + Swift Swim complex ban specifically to address. PS+SS Kingdra is one of the most broken Pokemon I have ever had the displeasure of sharing a format with. Specs, Band, DD, Crit, Mixed, Bulky, Sub, it doesn't matter what you're trying to do with this Kingdra, it's going to be broken regardless.
Growth + Weather Ball is terrifying already, but it has Earth Power to deal with Heatran.
Diet Venusaur, does the same thing more or less.
Evil. Bulk Up is a fantastic win condition, while Belly Drum is game-ending. Punching Glove allows it to get around Fluffy users while Water Absorb lets it counter the other PS+SS abusers.
Thank you to the lovely PokeAAA council (Velcroc BandedBodyPress Lavender Vice sleepyfwog) for sticking with us through this change, you all did great work and I'm glad you were up to the task. Special thanks to Chessking and dhelmise for the guidance and holding us to a higher standard. Lastly, thank you to everyone who's helped make this format what it is today.
Pokebilities AAA is far and away the most popular Mashup in our community’s history. It has had some unique challenges so far, especially given the disconnect between Mashups culture and site-wide tiering policy. As I explained in the post undoing the tiering fiasco I caused, every Mashup has historically been locked into Quickbans as the only viable form of tiering action; smaller playerbases and lack of access to ladders meant that Suspect Tests were out of the question, while Suspect Tournaments were grueling activities that nobody liked and were rarely worth the effort. These factors meant that most Mashups have never been subject to the higher tiering standards of Other Metagames, and Smogon as a whole.
When I started to get PokeAAA up and running last generation, I made the (unilateral, at the time) decision to create several complex bans which prevented the usage of weather setting abilities and weather speed boosting abilities on the same Pokemon. This was seen as the reasonable option at the time, as PokeAAA had a small playerbase and a wide variety of Pokemon with weather speed abilities. Banning over a dozen otherwise unproblematic Pokemon because of one set being broken on all of them seemed like overkill. After all, if the only issue was Primordial Sea + Swift Swim, and neither Primordial Sea, Swift Swim, or the Pokemon abusing it were broken, why would we not just ban the root cause? I championed this policy under the general principle currently enshrined in section 2a of the OM Tiering Policy and Guidelines, where if an ability is breaking more than 3-5 Pokemon it can be justified to ban the ability instead.
While this could arguably have been the right thing to do at the time, PokeAAA is no longer a tiny little pet project. PokeAAA now has the most popular ladder of the Other Metagames section, and will be featured in the upcoming AAAPL. We’re going to be holding ourselves to higher standards, and tier PokeAAA like one of the larger Other Metagames. Per section 3 of the OM Tiering Policy and Guidelines, as well as the wider Smogon tiering precedent, all formats should strive to avoid complex bans wherever applicable. This format does not *need* complex bans to function; we thought it was nice, clean, and convenient, but ultimately the format will be playable without them.
Effective immediately, Pokebilities AAA will be removing all complex bans from the format and implementing several changes to achieve the same effects, in accordance with wider Tiering Guidelines:
-Restricting Emergency Exit and Wimp Out; this achieves the same effect as the complex ban with Regenerator in the absence of Golisopod and Wimpod.
-Restricting Hadron Engine; Hadron Engine is significantly more broken when combined with Quark Drive than Electric Surge, and is the only part of that combination that is extremely broken.
-Adding Evasion Abilities Clause; this will replace the complex bans on self-evasion boosting, while also preventing the niche cases of evasion, like sending in Mamoswine after Slowking’s Chilly Reception, or Sandaconda using Sand Spit to get around the Sand Stream complex ban.
-Quickbanning the most heinous abusers of Desolate Land + Chlorophyll, Primordial Sea + Swift Swim, and so on. The council has voted to start with a conservative initial wave of bans, only targeting the most heinous abusers of weather ability combinations. The rest of the potentially broken users will be given due process after the changes are implemented.
Other changes implemented alongside this:
-Two Ability Clause has been implemented. Previously set to 1 to fit in line with Almost Any Ability, this number is more or less arbitrary, as the primary use of Ability Clause is to limit the amount of Regenerator users on a team. Because PokeAAA already has a hard limit of two Regenerator users per team, Two Ability Clause has been selected to accompany this.
-Cetitan, Drednaw, Floatzel, Kingdra, Venusaur, Victreebel, and Poliwrath have been quickbanned for their extremely potent speed-boosting weather abuse sets. All of these Pokemon are unstoppable when able to double their speed, recieve a boost, and get around nearly every form of counterplay available to them. This set of bans was part of an initial slate to cull the most obviously broken Weather abusers. This slate included every potential abuser and these were the Pokemon the council decided were not worth entertaining in the tier.
-Serperior and Zoroark-Hisui have been unbanned. These changes were long-overdue, and were simply waiting on a Meowscarada suspect test that is no longer in the works.
-Houndstone has been banned and Last Respects has been unbanned, to keep in line with OM tiering policy.
-Revival Blessing has been unbanned. This was a legacy ban from the beginning of the generation and Revival Blessing is not relevant nowadays.
Pokemon no longer useable due to Evasion Abilities Clause:
Sand Veil: Cacnea, Cacturne, Diglett-Alola, Donphan, Dugtrio-Alola, Gabite, Garchomp, Geodude, Gible, Gligar, Gliscor, Golem, Graveler, Larvitar, Orthworm, Palossand, Phanpy, Sandaconda, Sandshrew, Sandslash, Sandygast, Silicobra, Wiglett, Wugtrio
Note: Gliscor was previously banned from this format. To fit the tiering formatting changes, Gliscor is no longer directly banned in the ruleset, as it is now unuseable due to a banned base ability.
Snow Cloak: Articuno, Beartic, Cetoddle, Cubchoo, Froslass, Glaceon, Mamoswine, Ninetales-Alola, Piloswine, Sandshrew-Alola, Swinub, Vulpix-Alola
Restricted abilities: Emergency Exit, Hadron Engine, Wimp Out
Quickbanned Pokemon: Cetitan, Drednaw, Floatzel, Houndstone, Kingdra, Venusaur, Victreebel, Poliwrath
Unbanned Pokemon: Serperior, Zoroark-Hisui
Unbanned Moves: Last Respects, Revival Blessing
Sand Veil: Cacnea, Cacturne, Diglett-Alola, Donphan, Dugtrio-Alola, Gabite, Garchomp, Geodude, Gible, Gligar, Gliscor, Golem, Graveler, Larvitar, Orthworm, Palossand, Phanpy, Sandaconda, Sandshrew, Sandslash, Sandygast, Silicobra, Wiglett, Wugtrio
Note: Gliscor was previously banned from this format. To fit the tiering formatting changes, Gliscor is no longer directly banned in the ruleset, as it is now unuseable due to a banned base ability.
Snow Cloak: Articuno, Beartic, Cetoddle, Cubchoo, Froslass, Glaceon, Mamoswine, Ninetales-Alola, Piloswine, Sandshrew-Alola, Swinub, Vulpix-Alola
Restricted abilities: Emergency Exit, Hadron Engine, Wimp Out
Quickbanned Pokemon: Cetitan, Drednaw, Floatzel, Houndstone, Kingdra, Venusaur, Victreebel, Poliwrath
Unbanned Pokemon: Serperior, Zoroark-Hisui
Unbanned Moves: Last Respects, Revival Blessing
/challenge Pokebilities AAA @@@ Evasion Abilities Clause, !!Ability Clause = 2, +Drizzle + Swift Swim, +Primordial Sea + Swift Swim, +Drought + Chlorophyll, +Drought + Protosynthesis, +Desolate Land + Chlorophyll, +Electric Surge + Surge Surfer, +Electric Surge + Quark Drive, +Sand Stream + Sand Rush, +Sand Stream + Sand Veil, +Snow Warning + Slush Rush, +Snow Warning + Snow Cloak, +Emergency Exit + Regenerator, +Wimp Out + Regenerator, *Emergency Exit, *Hadron Engine, *Wimp Out, +Serperior, +Zoroark-Hisui, +Last Respects, +Revival Blessing, -Cetitan, -Drednaw, -Floatzel, -Kingdra, -Houndstone, -Poliwrath, -Venusaur, -Victreebel
/tour new Pokebilities AAA, elim,,, PokeAAA 2
/tour rules Evasion Abilities Clause, !!Ability Clause = 2, +Drizzle + Swift Swim, +Primordial Sea + Swift Swim, +Drought + Chlorophyll, +Drought + Protosynthesis, +Desolate Land + Chlorophyll, +Electric Surge + Surge Surfer, +Electric Surge + Quark Drive, +Sand Stream + Sand Rush, +Sand Stream + Sand Veil, +Snow Warning + Slush Rush, +Snow Warning + Snow Cloak, +Emergency Exit + Regenerator, +Wimp Out + Regenerator, *Emergency Exit, *Hadron Engine, *Wimp Out, +Serperior, +Zoroark-Hisui, +Last Respects, +Revival Blessing, -Cetitan, -Drednaw, -Floatzel, -Kingdra, -Houndstone, -Poliwrath, -Venusaur, -Victreebel
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 5
/tour new Pokebilities AAA, elim,,, PokeAAA 2
/tour rules Evasion Abilities Clause, !!Ability Clause = 2, +Drizzle + Swift Swim, +Primordial Sea + Swift Swim, +Drought + Chlorophyll, +Drought + Protosynthesis, +Desolate Land + Chlorophyll, +Electric Surge + Surge Surfer, +Electric Surge + Quark Drive, +Sand Stream + Sand Rush, +Sand Stream + Sand Veil, +Snow Warning + Slush Rush, +Snow Warning + Snow Cloak, +Emergency Exit + Regenerator, +Wimp Out + Regenerator, *Emergency Exit, *Hadron Engine, *Wimp Out, +Serperior, +Zoroark-Hisui, +Last Respects, +Revival Blessing, -Cetitan, -Drednaw, -Floatzel, -Kingdra, -Houndstone, -Poliwrath, -Venusaur, -Victreebel
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 5
Access to Belly Drum and Swords Dance pushes it over the edge. Snow also boosts its defense which gives it even more opportunities to set up. Swords Dance, fantastic secondary STAB and pseudo-STABs on biting moves. Wave Crash is extremely strong (stronger than anything Barraskewda could put out), and has access to coverage, Bulk Up, and mixed sets. Kingdra is the Pokemon that I created the Primordial Sea + Swift Swim complex ban specifically to address. PS+SS Kingdra is one of the most broken Pokemon I have ever had the displeasure of sharing a format with. Specs, Band, DD, Crit, Mixed, Bulky, Sub, it doesn't matter what you're trying to do with this Kingdra, it's going to be broken regardless. Growth + Weather Ball is terrifying already, but it has Earth Power to deal with Heatran. Diet Venusaur, does the same thing more or less. Evil. Bulk Up is a fantastic win condition, while Belly Drum is game-ending. Punching Glove allows it to get around Fluffy users while Water Absorb lets it counter the other PS+SS abusers.| Topic | Miss Crisis | Velcroc | BandedBodyPress | Lavender Vice | sleepyfwog | Result |
| Ability Clause | 2AC | 2AC | 2AC | 2AC | 2AC | 2AC |
| Barraskewda | DNB | Ban | DNB | Ban | Abstain | No Action |
| Bellossom | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Cetitan | Ban | Abstain | Ban | Ban | Ban | Banned |
| Drednaw | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Banned |
| Exeggutor | DNB | DNB | Ban | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Floatzel | DNB | Ban | Abstain | Ban | Ban | Banned |
| Hippowdon | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Kingdra | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Banned |
| Liligant-Hisui | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | Abstain | No Action |
| Ludicolo | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Lycanroc | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Overqwil | DNB | Ban | Ban | DNB | Abstain | No Action |
| Poliwrath | Ban | DNB | Ban | Ban | Ban | Banned |
| Qwilfish | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Revival Blessing | Unban | Abstain | Keep Banned | Unban | Unban | Unbanned |
| Serperior | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unbanned |
| Shiftry | DNB | DNB | Ban | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Stored Power | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | Keep Banned | No Action |
| Tyranitar | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Venusaur | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Banned |
| Victreebel | DNB | Ban | Ban | Ban | Ban | Banned |
| Vileplume | DNB | DNB | Ban | DNB | DNB | No Action |
| Zoroark-Hisui | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unban | Unbanned |
Last edited: