The Next CeleTran? Think Tank Inside!

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Luxormaniac

Everyone has heard of CeleTran, right? That famous defensive combination of Celebi and Heatran, because each can cover the other's weaknesses. But in my wonderings, i thought:

Can there be other such combos?

It makes perfect sense that other typing combos should exist. My purpose for this thread is to try to discuss out a new combo. Come on guys, this could permanently change the metagame! We'll forever leave our mark on future pokegenerations with stories of MetaNette or FrossChamp and how they made battling so much more interesting.

Also, lets just discuss synergy in pokemon in general. How to best use wish support and baton passing and such- but especially trying to find a perfect defensive combo that can do this.

FOR THE FUTURE, FOR POSTERITY, AND FOR YOUR RANKING!

Come on, lets discuss!
................................................
Do you have any ideas?
 
If Latias ends up OU, LatiGross is pretty amazing.

Latias is a great special defender with resistances to Fire, Grass, Electric, Water, Fighting, Psychic, and an immunity to Ground. Metagross is a great physical defender with resistances to Ice, Dragon, Grass, Psychic, Steel, and Rock. The two combine to fully absorb one another's weaknesses and create an excellent defensive core. Latias isn't too shabby on the physical side either, nor is Metagross bad on the Special side.
 
I find LatiZone better, Zone beats the scizors and Metagross that Counter Latias, while it gets a resistance to Dark move (CB Tyranitars crunch mainly).
 
Dragonite and Zone / Jirachi seems to be an underated combo. Haven't tried it much, but if Dragonite covers the special stuff, Jirachi beats the physical stuff.
 
JirachiKiss was beautiful during the time I used it in D/P. Haven't tried it in dppT though
 
Gliscor and Empoleon resist each other's weaknessess. Gliscor can Baton Pass an Agility and possibly a Sub to Empoleon where it try to attempt a sweep.
 
Introducing... Gliscoleon.

i_guraion.gif
i_enperuto.gif


Let's see here...

Empoleon is weak to Fighting, Ground and Electric, and resists/ is immune to Water, Ice, Normal, Flying, Rock, Bug, Ghost, Psychic, Steel, Dragon, Dark and Poison.

Gliscor is weak to Water and Ice, and resists/ is immune to Fighting, Ground, Electric, Poison and Bug.

Between the two of them they resist each other weaknesses perfectly, and on top between the two of them they resist every type in the game apart from Grass. Both offensively and defensively, Gliscor is focused on the physical spectrum while Empoleon is on the Special. Both have good defensive and offensive stats, and can not only take hits but be a threat themselves. My favourite combination of the two is as follows:

Gliscor @ Life Orb
Jolly - Sand Veil
252 HP, 40 Atk, 216 Spe

- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Roost

Outspeeds Jolly Lucario and most Salamence and Zapdos. After a Swords Dance, it OHKOs Salamence, Zapdos, Gyarados, Togekiss, etx with Stone Edge, while OHKOing Metagross, Tyranitar, Heatran, Lucario, etc with Earthquake. The combination is only resisted by Breloom and Bronzong in OU. In my opinion, this Gliscor set is the best replacement for Garchomp there is. Roosts off Close Combats and Life Orb damage to stay alive and set up easily.

Empoleon @ Life Orb
Modest - Torrent
40 HP, 252 SpA, 216 Spe

- Agility
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

Don't bother with the sub petaya thing, it wastes Empoleon's defensive capabilities far too quickly. Plus it has less than ideal coverage with only two moves. This Empoleon is capable of hitting hard with much better coverage, outspeeding scarf Lucario and Heatran after an Agility.

Anyway.... phew, had to get that out my system =P.

LR.
 
Jirachi is the best Steel / Psychic IMO, Wish pass is quite important. Bulkymence (with Roost of course) and Jirachi is quite hard to penetrate, save for HP Ice Mixape of course.
 
Right near the release of DP came out I created an RMT titled "Empiscor". This walling dual isn't original if you all think you just came up with it.
 
Eh emm, "Introducing... Gliscoleon." Sounds like a "new" idea to me.

Anyways, I have always found Camerupt and Gyarados to be effective. Camerupt walls Zapdos entirely, while helping with Heatran. Gyarados deals with pretty much everything else. However, I believe a rock resistance is necessary in these wall duos because Stone Edge is in the top 4 most used moves in OU.
 
Legacy Raider said:
Introducing... Gliscoleon.

i_guraion.gif
i_enperuto.gif


Let's see here...

Empoleon is weak to Fighting, Ground and Electric, and resists/ is immune to Water, Ice, Normal, Flying, Rock, Bug, Ghost, Psychic, Steel, Dragon, Dark and Poison.

Gliscor is weak to Water and Ice, and resists/ is immune to Fighting, Ground, Electric, Poison and Bug.

Between the two of them they resist each other weaknesses perfectly, and on top between the two of them they resist every type in the game apart from Grass. Both offensively and defensively, Gliscor is focused on the physical spectrum while Empoleon is on the Special. Both have good defensive and offensive stats, and can not only take hits but be a threat themselves. My favourite combination of the two is as follows:

Gliscor @ Life Orb
Jolly - Hyper Cutter
252 HP, 40 Atk, 216 Spe

- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Roost

Outspeeds Jolly Lucario and most Salamence and Zapdos. After a Swords Dance, it OHKOs Salamence, Zapdos, Gyarados, Togekiss, etx with Stone Edge, while OHKOing Metagross, Tyranitar, Heatran, Lucario, etc with Earthquake. The combination is only resisted by Breloom and Bronzong in OU. In my opinion, this Gliscor set is the best replacement for Garchomp there is.

Empoleon @ Life Orb
Modest - Torrent
40 HP, 252 SpA, 216 Spe

- Agility
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

Don't bother with the sub petaya thing, it wastes Empoleon's defensive capabilities far too quickly. Plus it has less than ideal coverage with only two moves. This Empoleon is capable of hitting hard with much better coverage, outspeeding scarf Lucario and Heatran after an Agility.

Anyway.... phew, had to get that out my system =P.

LR.
Click to expand...

I really like how this one looks. What about giving Gliscor Sand veil with some sandstorm support from something like TTar? Gliscor's evasion increase and Empoleons immunity makes it look kind of nice.
 
Yeah, that's a really good suggestion Olimaraman. The only reason I had Hyper Cutter was because without the Life Orb (I used to run Leftovers), Gyarados was not OHKOed by a +1 Stone Edge (after Intimidate). Now that I've been using Life Orb a lot more with much better results, I think I'll change it to Sand Veil.

Oh and blashhemy, you really needn't get so defensive lol. The post above mine mentions Gliscor/Empoleon already, and like I said it's mentioned in Empoleon's analysis. Can one not post a set or combo without somebody coming and trying to copyright it lol?

LR.
 
Gyarados + Magnezone resists every single attack. An interesting defensive combo, but it's also quite offensive as well.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned jirachi/flygon, since they handle all top threats bar hp ice zapdos/ ice punch metagross. both resist rock/sr, as well as ts

weaknesses covered are obvious; jirachi resists dragon/ice, while flygon resists fire/ground. there's more than typing at play obviously; jirachi+wish can handle most bulky waters save pert (who can be gked), and flygon deals with most bulky grounds.

The sets are largely team dependant but lifeorb roost outrage fire blast eq flygon paired with body slam wish zen headbutt uturn jirachi is pretty ballin. scouting scarf flygon (eg with uturn) and subcm jirachi are also a pretty good match.


edit: im only posting itt because others have put efforts into their posts but honestly when the op puts no thought into the title and makes stupid posts like "luxor used encore!!!!" and "so says luxor!" it's almost embarrassing
 
all I'm saying is that it's a good idea to actually put some thought into a thread where you ask people to contribute their strats :|

but you are on a roll with the irrelevant posts so uh don't let me stop you
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
If Latias ends up OU, LatiGross is pretty amazing.

Latias is a great special defender with resistances to Fire, Grass, Electric, Water, Fighting, Psychic, and an immunity to Ground. Metagross is a great physical defender with resistances to Ice, Dragon, Grass, Psychic, Steel, and Rock. The two combine to fully absorb one another's weaknesses and create an excellent defensive core. Latias isn't too shabby on the physical side either, nor is Metagross bad on the Special side.
Click to expand...

Magnezone seems to be much better since Scizor would normally use Metagross and Latias as setup fodder. Magnezone usually traps Scizors and kills them off pretty easily whereas Metagross would be praying that it doesn't carry Roost if it lacks HP Fire. Mamoswine also ruins that combination. Well, Steel + Dragon isn't very useful anyway IMO.

Anyway... has anyone considered Latitar?

380.png

BSTS:
80 HP
80 Atk
90 Def
110 SpA
130 SpD
110 Spe

Typing:
Psychic/Dragon

Extra Perks:
Levitate
Trick

Usage?

Calm Mind
Double Screen
Mono Screen
Wish Support
Safegaurd Support
Scouting

248.png

BSTS:
100 HP
134 Atk
110 Def
90 SpA
100 SpD
61 Spe

Typing:
Rock/Dark

Extra Perks:
Sandstorm Boost
Taunt

Usage?

Dragon Dance
Curse
Mixed Sweeper
Able to chase away Pursuit users
Can ward off other Tyranitar
Stealth Rock support

248.png
380.png

Ironicly, Latias's greatest fear, the one who plays mind games with her, can work nicely with her in terms of battling. Latias fears Pursuit while Tyranitar can ward off most viable Pursuit users and considering that most (I can give a rough... 98%) of them are Choice Banded, Tyranitar has no problem using them as setup fodder, including that heavy Bug. Latias resists Fighting, Water and Grass and is immune to Ground moves moves while Tyranitar resists Dark, Ghost and takes little damage from most Ice moves. Together, they're not unbeatable but, a nice combination.

Weankesses?

Fighting, Bug and Steel types with a Dark, Ice or Fighting move (which IS a lot). For Bug types, Latias wouldn't reallt mind runnign Hidden Power Fire and Tyranitar wouldn't mind running Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Stone Edge or Fire Punch.

Just had to get that out >_>........
 
I really like this thread, it's a great outlet for all the good combos I've used in the past. I'll try and bring it back and keep it on topic. I've actually got a couple of pages of ideas that I've jotted down over the course of the Platinum metagame development. Another very effective combination that I've used in the past is the following:

i_gyaradosu.gif
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i_hassamu.gif


Gyarados + Jolteon + Scizor

Anyway, before I go any further, I'm going to be the first to tell you that this is by no means my own idea. Some people I know will jump at the opportunity to say 'Oh I've been using that, you copied me', so I'll let you all know the earliest record I could find of the Gyarados + Jolteon + Steel type combo was RaikouLover's post here. Hector's recent Dream Team also utilizes something very similar, as did I in my Siren Song team a few months ago.

This is a very potent walling combination, and can handle most offensive threats while posing a very significant threat of its own. I also know from experience that Heatran, Metagross, Jirachi and Bronzong all work very well in Scizor's slot. Here's some in-depth information about this kind of walling combination:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish - Intimidate
252 HP, 224 Def, 32 Spe

- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This Gyarados, like I've said many times before, can take out whole stall teams by itself. It also takes on all fighting types with ease, surviving everything upto and including a SD Infernape Thunderpunch. The speed EVs put Gyarados' speed at 206, letting it hit 309 after one Dragon Dance in case you need to finish off a weakened fast foe.


Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Timid - Volt Absorb
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

- Thunderbolt
- HP Grass
- Shadow Ball
- Baton Pass / Signal Beam

Takes Electric attacks aimed at Gyarados. Sweeps teams. Nuff said.


Scizor @ Leftovers
Adamant - Technician
252 HP, 76 Atk, 176 SpD, 4 Spe

- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break
- Roost

Great priority revenge killer, and sets up with ease on weak attackers such as Starmie, Vaporeon, Gengar, Swampert, Gliscor, etc.

Anyway, that's another highly efficient wall combo for you.

LR.

EDIT: Well whaddyaknow, RL decides to post right before me =P.
 
RaikouLover said:
Doesn't stop Gyarados very well...
Click to expand...

If that was to my post, adamant 252 LO gyarados SE is never an ohko on zapdos without a boost, and pert can always throw stone edges at it if you want to. Also, pert can roar it out unless it has taunt, at which point it is no longer likely the offensive version that is needed to ohko zapdos. Your right though, not the best gyarados counters. It can also actually be taken down by mixape, gyarados, and mence if they are played right. I paired this combo with starmie who could beat all 3 (not mence since it got outrage, but pert and zapdos can handle it well enough). This also gives you added heatran insurance.

So, I guess the combo is actually starmie/swampert/zapdos. I do believe vaporeon also works, but that makes it easier for lucario, who can also beat this duo, to set up on you and beat you. I'd prefer to ev starmie more defensively to outspeed and get in 2 surfs on lucario while it swords dances and extreme speed wouldn't beat you, and surf can get you the guaranteed 2hko when factoring in one round of LO damage and SR with no special attack investment.

EDIT: Looks like my post was deleted. Just to clarify, this post is for the combo of swampert and zapdos.
 
panamaxis said:
I find LatiZone better, Zone beats the scizors and Metagross that Counter Latias, while it gets a resistance to Dark move (CB Tyranitars crunch mainly).
Click to expand...


the only problem with that is Latias gets OHKOed by Pursuit from any of those(though im not sure about gross, CB scizor and ttar for sure tho
 
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