NU Discussion Thread

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Aquamilotic said:
A good new tier list.

Uber (Current Uber)
Semi-Uber (Pokemon banned from OU, too weak for Uber)
Overused/OU (Current OU)
Borderline/BL (Ban tier for UU)
Moderately Used/MU (Current UU)
Underused/UU (Current NU)
Rarely Used/RU (Ban tier for NU)
Neverused/NU (Real crap)
Click to expand...

Why a semi-uber tier? Seeing as uber is already a ban tier. And we probably need a ban tier between MU (now UU) an UU (now NU) once the metagame is further explored.

I'd personally go with something like:

Uber
OU
BL
LU (Lesser used)
Ban tier UU
UU (now NU)
Ban tier NU
NU (Beedrill & co tier)
 
There shouldn't be too many tiers, and definitely not a 'BL for ubers'. Everything in the ubers tier is useable in ubers, and there are also a lot of OUs which can be used to great success there too. Namely Lucario, Metagross, Heatran, Kingdra and Tyranitar. Plus there's nothing in OU as of now (except maybe Scizor) which is significantly overpowered. Even Latias isn't that hard to deal with.

But then again, I would say UU needs shaking up again. To be honest, new UU is crap: it's basically early D/P's BL tier with Platinum moves added. New NU is even more of a joke, with Pinsir (which was highly overpowered in old UU and 'relegated' to BL) somehow ending up in the bottom tier. Tauros too is a ridiculous choice for NU, given how he can hold his own in OU and even dominate a game in the right hands.

UU is no longer the fast-paced game of surprises it used to be, and is now even worse than the latter days of old UU when Venusaur, Steelix, Weezing and other clear BLs were added. NU is even more messed up than UU, being something like the primordial D/P UU was before things were moved to BL.

So yeah, I would definitely suggest the removal of the likes of Pinsir and Tauros: former BLs should be at least in UU... CB Tauros and CS Pinsir are still the same terrors they always have been.
 
For the last time, UU is based on usage, not power.

In my opinion, they may just create a limbo tier between UU and RU/NU for all the overpowered Pokemon.
 
Zog said:
But then again, I would say UU needs shaking up again. To be honest, new UU is crap: it's basically early D/P's BL tier with Platinum moves added.
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There's nothing wrong with UU. The old UU was a Clefable-whoring stallfest, with nothing outside of Rain Dance teams packing enough power to sweep. The current UU has more variety and more viable tactics, and is faster paced (although, by all means, stall can still work very effectively). Bringing down the BLs was the best thing ever to happen to UU.
 
Exclamation Point said:
Note: It is very likely that a new tier will be formed between UU and NU, due to the amount of Pokemon left over, which is essentially the metagame that this thread discusses. This does not impact any discussion in the thread except for the fact that this tier will probably not be NU. There will be no further discussion on this new tier in this thread. - Great Sage


NU Pokemon have finally been determined. This tier will be, perhaps, the most interesting tier yet! We have quite an offensive group of Pokemon such as Rampardos, Tauros, Slaking, Ursarang, and Tangrowth. All of which were BL not to long ago. Lets not forget that we have have a few legends in the ranks, Articuno and Entei.

Smogon's NU list:
http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/nu


This thread is meant solely for NU discussion. This includes, but is not limited to, Tier placement, common trends, and "counter" discussion.
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Just bringing this up. Quit talking about a possible "RU" tier.

Anyway.
Ursaring is probably the most reliable sweeper in NU right now. It's not that hard to find time to Swords Dance, even once, and you can easily sweep any team lacking a Mach Punch Hitmonchan or a Choice Scarfer faster then Ursaring. (After a Quick Feet boost.) I've yet to face anything that can even stand a hit from him after a Swords Dance. Sure Toxic Orb wears him down, but when he only needs one turn to set up, the recoil doesn't matter.

Gligar is an amazing support Pokemon. He performs great as a lead, taunting slower leads and setting up Stealth Rock. It's just a shame he doesn't get Whirlwind. There's a severe lack of good phazers in NU.

People talk about "TangrIce", Tangrowth and Regice combo, working similarly to SkarmBliss. In theory this works, but they share a fire weakness, (Entei shits all over that.) and don't even cover each other's weaknesses except for Tangrowth's Ice weakness.

Tauros is underwhelming. It's a very predictable attacker, and is walled pretty badly by Tangrowth. (Who seems to be on every other team, with good reason.)
 
Smokingpaper said:
Why a semi-uber tier? Seeing as uber is already a ban tier. And we probably need a ban tier between MU (now UU) an UU (now NU) once the metagame is further explored.

I'd personally go with something like:

Uber
OU
BL
LU (Lesser used)
Ban tier UU
UU (now NU)
Ban tier NU
NU (Beedrill & co tier)
Click to expand...

Semi-Uber is for Ho-Oh, Manaphy, Skymin, Latios without Soul Dew, Garchomp and other Pokes like that. Uber is a ban tier, but Semi-Uber is OU with some current Ubers so they have a chance to shine.

Uber (Current Uber)
Semi-Uber (Pokemon banned from OU, OU+All Pokes that are/have been Suspects+Underrated/Underused Ubers like Ho-Oh and Latios without Soul Dew)
Overused/OU (Current OU)
Borderline/BL (Ban tier for UU)
Moderately Used/MU (Current UU)
Underused/UU (Ban tier for LU)
Little Used/LU (Current NU)
Rarely Used/RU (Ban tier for NU)
Never Used/NU (Real crap)
 
People, this is how the tier list goes.

Ban List 1
Usage Tier 1
Ban List 2
Usage Tier 2
Ban List 3
Usage Tier 3
Ban List 4
Usage Tier 4
Ban List 5
Usage Tier 5

We can carry on that pattern as long as we want.

Ubers is Ban List 1. OU is Usage Tier 1. BL is Ban List 2. UU is Usage Tier 2.

The metagame we're discussing in this thread is Usage Tier 3, which we're calling NU at the moment.

Some people are suggesting names such as MU, LU, RU, etc. for ban lists, which is ridiculous. Ban lists aren't based on usage, so having 'Rarely Used' as the name of a ban list makes no sense. 'Rarely Used' should be the name of a usage tier.
 
first of all the in NU discussion not tier discussion and second of all there is no semi-ubers, those are suspects that are being tested for other tiers.



On the topic of "tangrice" gliscice is more effective. Gligar and regice are quite neat together. They cover each others weaknesses pretty well. I used this in OU with gliscor, I'm not sure if it will work with gligar.
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
I'm fairly confident it will be UU next month. Really, Gallade was the only thing holding back its usage so much.
Click to expand...

I sort of hope it does go up a tier. It's the Pokemon that most people seem to bring up when they want to tell everyone how messed up NU is, along with Pinsir, Tauros, etc.

And it was only slightly less used than Scyther and Porygon 2 last month. I don't think NU players will miss Medicham that much to be honest, if it does move up.
 
There are two groups:
A) Can spell two/to/too properly according to its use
B) Those who can't
But really, we can't bump stuff up from one usage-tier to another, because it simply kills all logic. Something tells me mods will lock this if discussion like this continues.
 
Something that needs to be considered in any NU reforms:

Seeing as it's usage-based, Pinsir, Medicham and friends need to be taken into account. They were BL before because they were too powerful for UU. The only reason they're NU now is because they're outclassed, and so people don't even consider them for teams because they have a better alternative. They're still too powerful, but people forget them in favour of their more powerful cousins, which is why their usage is so low.
 
There are two groups:

A) Those who have a good keyboard
B) Those who don't

Well, let's see. Why was wobbuffet banned from OU since RSE? Isn't a similar scenario about Pinsir, Medicham and friends now in DPPt?
 
supermarth64 said:
No it's not. Wobbuffet was banned from OU because of its ability.
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One could argue the exact same thing for Medicham and Pure Power.

Wobbuffett has a broken ability in tandem with his other moves and stat distribution. If he had Carvanah like defenses, he would surely not be banned.
 
blasphemy1 said:
Wobbuffett has a broken ability in tandem with his other moves and stat distribution. If he had Carvanah like defenses, he would surely not be banned.
Click to expand...
Unlikely; even if he had Shedinja's defenses, the ability to switch in on a support move, outspeed the slow wall that used it, Encore and Tickle it, and then Pursuit it with something else or set up some frail sweeper for free would still make Wobbuffet hell of broken. Wobbuffet takes away a factor of skill, and can singlehandedly dismantle a stall team with no effort.
 
Zog said:
Something that needs to be considered in any NU reforms:

Seeing as it's usage-based, Pinsir, Medicham and friends need to be taken into account. They were BL before because they were too powerful for UU. The only reason they're NU now is because they're outclassed, and so people don't even consider them for teams because they have a better alternative. They're still too powerful, but people forget them in favour of their more powerful cousins, which is why their usage is so low.
Click to expand...

They're in NU now because they're not very good. What, exactly, in UU outclasses Pinsir? Further, considering that there are 25 Pokemon from old UU that are on the new UU list, while Pinsir and Medicham are not, clearly they weren't too powerful for UU.

If Medicham or Pinsir is too powerful for NU, then it will go to NU's banlist. But that's something that has to come from playtesting, not some arbitrary, preconceived idea of how powerful a Pokemon is. That's how we end up with old UU, whose accuracy in judging a Pokemon's power was little better than a coin flip.
 
Steinhauser said:
Unlikely; even if he had Shedinja's defenses, the ability to switch in on a support move, outspeed the slow wall that used it, Encore and Tickle it, and then Pursuit it with something else or set up some frail sweeper for free would still make Wobbuffet hell of broken. Wobbuffet takes away a factor of skill, and can singlehandedly dismantle a stall team with no effort.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but what wall/tank does Wobby outspeed? With 33 base speed, even Relaxed Swampert outruns it. When I meant Carvanah like defenses, I didn't mean in respect to the names, I was referring to HP / Def / SpD. There is absolutely no way it would be broken and it is ignorant to think otherwise.
 
What about with a Focus Sash, and Destiny Bond?

If they attack they lose to Destiny Bond.

Foe cannot escape, if user uses a move besides Taunt, Protect, etc. Wob could just Encore and still do what it intended to do, otherwise Destiny Bond used from turn before when Focus Sash activates means it will kill foe on its damaging attack.

Anyways his point is the same reason why Wynaut is also Uber. Defenses suck, so he is banned based on his ability.
 
hhjj said:
What about with a Focus Sash, and Destiny Bond?

If they attack they lose to Destiny Bond.

Foe cannot escape, if user uses a move besides Taunt, Protect, etc. Wob could just Encore and still do what it intended to do, otherwise Destiny Bond used from turn before when Focus Sash activates means it will kill foe on its damaging attack.

Anyways his point is the same reason why Wynaut is also Uber. Defenses suck, so he is banned based on his ability.
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I never understood that, tbh. I always thought theorymon was typically despised here, but I hate those two pokemon, so I never opened my mouth about the subject.
 
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