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Pokemon VGC 2010 DATES / rules announced for the US!

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CrazySnorlax said:
Garchomp loves Dig everyone.
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:pimp:

Ferrouswheel, don't forget that Hail and Sandstorm are weather conditions as well and that they require specific team building. Hippowdon cannot really do anything other than getting slaughtered by Water and Grass moves. Ttar is funny with a specially bulky spread and Light Screen up but it attracts physical Fighting moves and Earthquakes and its damage output is mediocre at best. Abomasnow is the most promising of these OU weather leads as it can adapt to a variety of team building styles - think of Scarfobama, TR Obama - as well as its ability to counter various threats in VGC's metagame.

Do you guys have any ideas on what you will be using? This question is directed more towards the U.S. players as I noticed already in the VGC 2009 thread that very few people actually talked about their teams and I think that was one of the reasons why America and Europe got served in San Diego.
 
drug_duck said:
:pimp:

Ferrouswheel, don't forget that Hail and Sandstorm are weather conditions as well and that they require specific team building. Hippowdon cannot really do anything other than getting slaughtered by Water and Grass moves. Ttar is funny with a specially bulky spread and Light Screen up but it attracts physical Fighting moves and Earthquakes and its damage output is mediocre at best. Abomasnow is the most promising of these OU weather leads as it can adapt to a variety of team building styles - think of Scarfobama, TR Obama - as well as its ability to counter various threats in VGC's metagame.

Do you guys have any ideas on what you will be using? This question is directed more towards the U.S. players as I noticed already in the VGC 2009 thread that very few people actually talked about their teams and I think that was one of the reasons why America and Europe got served in San Diego.
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I'll most likely be running Rain or Hail. Here's the current version of my Rain team, that I've been using on PBB's Netbattle server:

Togekiss (M) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Extremespeed
- Follow Me
- Roost

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Water Spout

Palkia @ Haban Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Aura Sphere
- Protect
- Spacial Rend
- Thunder

Heracross (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Night Slash
- Stone Edge


I'm not too sure how useful Heracross is - I've also tested with Ludicolo and Kingdra. The sets I run on those two:

Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Surf

Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Protect
- Waterfall

I like Kingdra more than Heracross, but at the moment, I don't really have a way to deal with Shedinja (on my cart) - I'm thinking about getting a Ludicolo with Leech Seed, or I can throw Abomasnow in, since Sash doesn't save Shedinja from field hazards.
 
Something smart that I saw was to use choice scarf Kyogre as a finisher. It literally destroys the other team. Make your first two guys strong enough to do some damage and when they finally think they got you, they become unprepared for a Kyogre coming, because usually ur opponet makes their first two get rid of weather effect pokemon. I haven't tested it yet, but I believe that this idea will do work in the VGC.
 
well in general, if they still have a hidden Uber, it would be wise to be wary of it :/. lol for me, I would love Kyogre in the back, it gives me less problems hidden in the back than it would coming out first thing >_> since I wouldn't have to worry about Swift Swimmers so early in the game
 
I know its been mentioned before...but, is sefl destruct mewtwo going to be heavily used???? and what about taunting weavile or will mewtwo just be equipt with taunt
 
Cannonfodder said:
I know its been mentioned before...but, is sefl destruct mewtwo going to be heavily used???? and what about taunting weavile or will mewtwo just be equipt with taunt
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I'm sure somebody will use it, but honestly how many people here can RNG in FR/LG?

*workingonit:P*
 
People don't need to know how to RNG in order to use SelfDestruct Mewtwo. >_> I have a Mewtwo from ADV that knows SD, and it's good enough to use in VGC, but it's not RNGed(just SR the old way).
 
I don't get what the big deal is with selfdestruct Mewtwo. Obviously I didn't go to JAA where I hear it was used a lot, but really, it should be fairly easy to guess if the Mewtwo has SD by looking at whoever's using it (i.e. if it's a kid they probably don't have one), and even then just be aware of it. Mewtwo's attack isn't exactly amazing, and selfdestruct as opposed to explosion means it loses a good fifth of the power of an explosion off something with the same attack. I guess it has a bit of surprise value, but it just doesn't strike me as any good. Plus it's effectively impossible to RNG abuse for one. At least within the limits of what I'd call legit.
 
people are so focussed on RNG that they dont notice that it is possible to SR a good pokemon in an acceptable amount of time..*runs* =/..oh what did you guys do in 2003?

anyway i dont think that SD Mewtwo will influnce the metagame that much cuz it fears wheater and scarfers...mewtwo was god in RBY/GSC and shared its throne with groudon/Kyogre/Deoxys in ADV but now its just a shadow of itself with all these new dragons and ghosts all arround. ..
 
well when you're using the RNG, you're pretty much SRing for that same Pokemon, except you know about when to hit it, so it's faster, and you might end up with the best spread instead ._.
Mewtwo has what? 110 Base Attack? that's pretty good considering the only ones who actually top it (with Explosion of course) are Azelf and Metagross, besides the fact that it's Self Destruct, and even then, half of your opponent's Defense pretty much maims them. Not to mention Mewtwo has 130 Base Speed, and can run Scarf to pretty much prevent any other Pokemon from outspeeding it, making other Scarfers lose to it. Coupled with its 153 Base S.Atk and movepool, it can still rip holes in teams. My only problem with using Mewtwo, is the fact that it's not immune to Fake Out....
 
I really cannot see a niche for Mewtwo in this metagame. It is not fake out immune and thus heavily susceptible to any Ludicolo lead that carries the move. Let's go on, shall we. As Zog already has stated, Selfdestruct is not exactly what I would call strong. It can net surprise kills on unsuspecting opponents but other than that every person with half a brain can see that coming, especially when it's best-of-three so you are just wasting a Uber slot. Also don't forget Dialga, Giratina and Metagross. And even then, for its special moves to be effective, for those arguing with that enormous SpAtk stat of his, he would need Specs or at least Life Orb (which would have the nice side effect of boosting SD as well) which, to my mind, is also waste of a Uber slot since you can achieve similar damage output with Kyogre and the Dragons which have near perfect coverage in this metagame. In addition, I don't think one should fear Base 95 moves... It dies to any random move + priority so it needs sash and then you could just use Azelf instead of Mewtwo because you have a way better Boom.

Rayquaza, Kyogre, Groudon, Lugia, Hooh > Mewtwo.
 
Picollo said:
people are so focussed on RNG that they dont notice that it is possible to SR a good pokemon in an acceptable amount of time..*runs* =/..oh what did you guys do in 2003?

anyway i dont think that SD Mewtwo will influnce the metagame that much cuz it fears wheater and scarfers...mewtwo was god in RBY/GSC and shared its throne with groudon/Kyogre/Deoxys in ADV but now its just a shadow of itself with all these new dragons and ghosts all arround. ..
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You're right, it won't. Scarfed Selfdestruct will OHKO any non-steel types if they don't/can't protect, but it'll only work once. If you're going to use a Kamikaze Pokemon, you'd be better off tossing a Choice Band on something like Azelf or Metagross. I did a little testing a couple weeks ago, and a Naive Banded Azelf hits 265 Attack, which is enough to OHKO any 0 Defense Metagross, Dialga, Heatran.

Howie82 said:
well when you're using the RNG, you're pretty much SRing for that same Pokemon, except you know about when to hit it, so it's faster, and you might end up with the best spread instead ._.
Mewtwo has what? 110 Base Attack? that's pretty good considering the only ones who actually top it (with Explosion of course) are Azelf and Metagross, besides the fact that it's Self Destruct, and even then, half of your opponent's Defense pretty much maims them. Not to mention Mewtwo has 130 Base Speed, and can run Scarf to pretty much prevent any other Pokemon from outspeeding it, making other Scarfers lose to it. Coupled with its 153 Base S.Atk and movepool, it can still rip holes in teams. My only problem with using Mewtwo, is the fact that it's not immune to Fake Out....
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As drug said, Scarf sacrifices some of Mewtwo's Attack in order to ensure that it can actually blow up. It's still very vulnerable to Fake Out, and if your Fake Out Pokemon is paired with something that can kill it (ie Kyogre), chances are the person using the SD Mewtwo is already going to be down 2 Pokemon.

I don't see much use for Mewtwo either - given the fact that he can be killed very easily, if he is used, it will be as a support Pokemon. He's got access to Taunt, Light Screen, and Reflect, so he can mitigate some damage (if he lives) or stop Trick Room/Status users (like Cresselia and Dialga)

Cannonfodder said:
so outside of raquaza what is going to be the BIG defense to kyogre........obviously not SD mewtwo....
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Slower Groudon (since water loses power in the Sun), Palkia, Rayquaza (who cancels rain), Cresselia, Dialga, Togekiss, other Kyogre, and possibly Lugia (not too sure on him) aren't KO'ed by Modest Scarf Ogre's Water Spout in Rain. Ray and Groudon can always be hit by Ice Beam, and if the opponent's got their own Ogre, use Thunder.
 
I think Toxicroak will be more of a major player this year. Pretty much all Rain+Surf teams will have him instead of Ludi, since he heals in Rain, heals from Water, Fake Out, Fighting Stab w/ Low Kick, Sucker Punch, and some good stuff. He'll be an alright counter to Kyogre, since he can FO something, and is immune to Water moves. Not as good as Ludi in countering Rain, but still pretty good.
 
drcossack said:
Slower Groudon (since water loses power in the Sun), Palkia, Rayquaza (who cancels rain), Cresselia, Dialga, Togekiss, other Kyogre, and possibly Lugia (not too sure on him) aren't KO'ed by Modest Scarf Ogre's Water Spout in Rain. Ray and Groudon can always be hit by Ice Beam, and if the opponent's got their own Ogre, use Thunder.
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About Lugia, it's actually pretty good at blocking Kyogre, especially CM Lugia paired with Groudon.

BlueCookies used them both and completely dominated my Kyogre, if you're looking for a good counter that works well as an all-around spot I'd go with Lugia.

Nice post too, drcossack, I haven't thought of really using Togekiss either, but now that I think about it, it could work by drawing Thunder and other hits. I'm gonna try to throw a team together with it :D
 
I've been thinking of potential uses for Giratina-O in this format. Specifically, uses of Shadow Force.

Shadow Force, I think, can be a really powerful tool in Giratina-O's arsenal in Doubles for a few reasons.

1. It passes through Protect.

This one is a biggie in Doubles, when Protect is important on so many Pokemon to avoid either Team Mate Damage (like from Discharge, Earthquake, Surf, or Explosion) or avoid damage from opponent's moves (Like the aforementioned Explosion, as well as making the opponent waste a turn if they try to double up on one Pokemon). The only Pokemon-Type completely protected against Shadow Force is Normals.

2. Normal-Pokemon are Rare, and probably won't switch in.
I can't think of a Normal-Type Pokemon that fits in this format that would be widespread. Even so, switching in 4v4 is a bit more risky, I think, since you have less Pokemon to work with in the battle. It could give the opponent a turn they need to weaken the switch-in into KO range for the teammate.

3. Weaknesses to strike
While Ghost is resisted by Dark and Steel as well as being completely nullified by Normal, there are plenty of Ghost-Weak Ubers like Lugia, Mewtwo, the Latis, and other Giratina. Also, other than a Pokemon who is at least one of those Types (like Dialga and Scizor, perhaps?) Shadow Force will still hit with 120 base Power off 120 Base Attack with STAB and the Griseous Orb Bonus.

4. There are two targets.
In singles, Shadow Force can only hit one Target, which makes switching in a resist easier. In doubles, though, you don't know where Shadow Force will hit until it lands.

5. "Protect" is more useful in Doubles.

I think this is a bit self-explanatory. The "Invincible" Turn of Shadow Force can give Giratina a round of "protect", where it's less likely to be targeted. Since Giratina is likely to be slower than most Pokemon (with 90 Base Speed, IIRC), using Protect with the other Pokemon that turn would result in your entire side being immune to damage that turn.

What do you think of Shadow Force in this environment? Does it seem like a good idea?
 
ultimatedra said:
ummm....how are you going to use Giratina-o? it is not possible since the Griseous Orb removes when connecting to wifi.
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Transfer the 12th Movie/TRU Arceus to HG/SS and take it to the Ruins of Alph--it will open up an event where you can get a Level 1 Giratina, Dialga, or Palkia, with each holding their respective orb. With that, you'll have a Giratina-O which you'll be able to use. Similarly, Rotom was unbanned presumably since you can now simply get its forms by trading one over to HG/SS and taking it to the elevator in Silph Co, which will lead to a room where it can transform.
 
Naxte said:
Transfer the 12th Movie/TRU Arceus to HG/SS and take it to the Ruins of Alph--it will open up an event where you can get a Level 1 Giratina, Dialga, or Palkia, with each holding their respective orb. With that, you'll have a Giratina-O which you'll be able to use. Similarly, Rotom was unbanned presumably since you can now simply get its forms by trading one over to HG/SS and taking it to the elevator in Silph Co, which will lead to a room where it can transform.
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That still does not answer the fact the Giratina's orb still detaches when connected to any kind of WiFi.
 
ultimatedra said:
That still does not answer the fact the Giratina's orb still detaches when connected to any kind of WiFi.
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But don't the VGC matches use local wireless and not Wi-Fi for the battles? I thought they did. Of course, I've never been or anything, so I wouldn't know, but that was what it seemed to me, especially now that the Japanese have unbanned Rotom this time around (when the last time it was just banned because of the forms messing things up. If it's not banned anymore, I'd assume that would no longer be the case, and thus local wireless). If so, I don't see the problem--trade over Arceus, select Giratina, and you're set--no need for Wi-Fi.
 
It does not matter what kind of wireless it uses, it detaches either way. Have you ever actually tried battling with another DS? Your recent posts suggest you have not played against another person before, just on Shoddy.
 
ultimatedra said:
It does not matter what kind of wireless it uses, it detaches either way. Have you ever actually tried battling with another DS? Your recent posts suggest you have not played against another person before, just on Shoddy.
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Hmm, you're right about that. I hadn't actually battled against anyone with them and was simply going by what I had heard, which is that it did work. Going into the union room on my Platinum, however, both my Rotom and Shaymin reverted. Wonder what's up with the change in the Rotom's status then, since I'm pretty sure it's not banned anymore--I suppose they just sensed up and thought banning it because of something that's impossible to bring in anyway was kind of silly. Would check just to make sure this is the same on my copy of HG, and to make sure that goes for the Battle room as well (which is I believe what I heard was talking about), but I only have Platinum with me right now, so I suppose I'll just assume the same goes for them.

Anyway, never mind then, I suppose.
 
I'm pretty sure you can use Special Formes in local wireless connections by which I don't mean the Union Room but the right one room, the Colosseum, if it is Platinum vs Platinum and similarly HGSS vs HGSS.

IPL: Smeargle is still a top-notch contender though I found the TR Support set (Follow Me) to be more effective than Scarf Void spam. You can make your argument here but I think that his speed, even with Jolly Scarf, is sup-par in Ubers, considering it gets outsped by Scarfogre.

Purimpopoie: All your points are valid. The only disadvantage I can see is that Giratina itself is weak to Dragon moves which obviously cannot be fixed by a Haban berry if you are using the Orgy-Forme.

Mosquito: Do you really think Toxicroak will be of more use this year? There are several hard hitters all of which pose huge threats to Toxicroak. It is immune to Water but not to Electric and Dragon and don't forget people might just use Groudon...
 
I've heard it works in the colosseum only, but haven't tested seeing as I don't physically know anyone who's decent at battling with Platinum. My friends don't play any gens past gen 2. :P

Also I'm considering using Giratina-O and shadow force too. I have a pretty good one already, and on PBR always hated fighting noob Giratina that spammed shadow force. For Giratina-O, an unavoidable 216BP physical ghost STAB off decent attack isn't anything to scoff at.
 
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