We haven't received enough information regarding the dream world traits to make a determination. (Two dream world pokemon have been revealed total).
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Pokemon Black and White (SPECULATIONS ALLOWED HERE)
- Thread starter Great Sage
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We haven't received enough information regarding the dream world traits to make a determination. (Two dream world pokemon have been revealed total).
Too lazy to run calcs, so I'm just wondering, how much does a Modest Speced Sceptile do to those? I'm guessing about the same, but I may be wrong. And yeah, I would go with Return if you have 2 water moves, but I prefer AJ with Ice Punch and EQ.
There.
The reason is Base Power. Stats does matter, but Base Power is way more imporant on a sweeper.
Weavile? Can't even KO Vaporeon after a Swords Dance. Reason: Night Slash it the most powerful attack it gets. And it's WEAK.
Lucario? Has lower attack but can KO Vaporeon after a Swords Dance with ease.
And those 2 pokes are almost equal (1 STAB, 1 priority, 1 coverage move and SD... Lucario can run another sets of course)
A example would be Torterra Wood Hammer X Rhyperior STAB options. Despite having 31 more base attack, Wood Hammer can still hit harder.
A even more extreme example would be Aggron Head Smash. Aggron, with a 110 base attack, hits harder than Rampardos Stone Edge, and between their base attacks there's a huge difference (110 X 165. A whole 55 difference).
That said, here's my points:
What stops Gamefreak from giving something like a 120 STAB Water Attack to Feraligatr? I DOUBT that Skarmory would survive a +2 Guts 120 BP attack from
the alligator. Or Forretress. Hell, even Cresselia would dislike that. And if you use it under Rain...
About coverage: it comes down to preference, just like you said. You could use those 2 water attacks and Return for coverage just like you could prefer more coverage.
Almost every electric poke is faster anyway, so the only way to damage them is with DD (Gyarados is better) or SD Aqua Jet.
So, you trade a strong STAB move for the ability to hit grasses. Preference matters.
- 248 HP / 0 SpD Adamant Scizor: 42.6% - 50.1%
- 0 HP / 4 SpD Naive Heatran: 39.3% - 46.4%
- 0 HP / 0 SpD Adamant Dragonite: 37.5% - 44%
- 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Blissey: 52.2% - 61.8%
No notable additional KO's, but Sceptile is faster and has Dragon Pulse. Venusaur is bulkier and can absorb Toxic Spikes. Both would rip holes in teams, though I think I'd go for Sceptile just because of the combination of Speed + Power. Solar Power would truly be a blessing.
Actually, now that you mention it - TMs being passed down by breeding is pretty useless now. Perhaps abilities being passed down (not every/any ability, but merely ones already an option) will be added to replace that.
Waterfall/Aqua Jet/Return/Swords Dance, as many have said, would have phenominal coverage, awesome power, AND priority.
Hell, with those numbers it'd be able to knock out most things by catching them on the switch in with Waterfall/Return and finishing them with Aqua Jet.
That would be awesome.
Most electric types have such sad defensives anyway that Return is all you really need. Additionally, they'd practically all outrun him anyway.
Like I thought, Sceptile does about the same except to Bliss. Solar Power and LO on Sceptile would be the best blessing that GF would ever give us :')
EDIT: @ Kitsunine- All I really worry about are those slow but bulky Grass types Fera can outspeed. Although, running Return would still be better, but meh :P
nuuu they must be steel! lol
(though bone theory actually makes sense, or if they are made from whatever matter turtle shells are made from)
Yes, but only once. They can always do it again ;D
In a perfect world, Blastoise is Water/Steel, Charizard is Fire/Dragon, and Sceptile is Grass/Dragon.
Ya never know, a new useful ability goes a looong way. Factoring in potential movepool growth too. They may not shoot out of UU and become OU superstars, but Charizard and Sceptile don't like being NU. >_>
BTW you forgot Swampert, the only starter you didn't mention that's in OU
Speaking of, what kinda new ability could Swampert get if any? Flavor wise, his dex enteries mention he has intensely powerful arms, ability to sense storms, and it's amazing vision. Forewarn?... Keen Eye?... Yeah, no plz. >_>
General water-type abilities: Water Veil? Water Absorb (That'd be cool)?
General ground-type abilities: hmm... dunno
If he got a Sandstorm-related ability, I'm sure it could be helpful (One of those two new ones). Also if Swampy did get Water Absorb, he benefit from it by getting a free heal (considering he only has rest and leftovers to heal, or team support that's a huge+) aaannnddd he'd get another immunity.
How could I forget the mudfish :O. You must remember, we are getting the basic forms of the starters (ie Bulbasaur) so this new ability must apply for Mudkip --> Marshtomp --> Swampert. I don't see any Ground-type abilities working for that very reason. Water Absorb and Water Veil seem like the most probable, both of which are pretty useful in their own right (Rotom-A won't be able to burn you, yay).
Weaville has base 120 attack, Lucario has base 110. You make it sound like Weaville has high attack with bad BP moves, but Lucario has low attack with high BP moves. That couldn't be less true. Lucario can reach 350 attack, Weaville can reach 372. Lucario has high attack and high BP moves. Weaville has high attack and low BP moves.
Base Power matters, but so do stats.
Base Power matters more; a base 75 Attack Pokemon using Focus Punch does more damage than a 150 Attack Pokemon using Brick Break.
So, what kinda irl creatures should be pokemon-ified? I think gamefreak should do a pokemon based off the atlas moth (and make it hella huge, Im' talking one of the largest bug pokemon... but the majority of it's size comes from it's massive ass wings, so it's a average sized body with humongous wings) and instead of a early bug it could be a late game bug like scyther, heracross, yanma-line, etc. it would a 3-stage caterpillar -> caccoon -> moth >_> type-wise bug/fire would be awesome (not like bug/flying is any better defensively).
Anyways, I think Gamefreak needs to make a bit of a change regarding what ground-type attacks hit. I will never understand WHY Beedrill, Venomoth, and Dustox were affected by Earthquake. They have wings, so they obviously fly... Just because they're poison type doesn't mean they hang out on the ground or something. I think any winged pokemon should inherently avoid ground-type attacks. It's kinda justifiable why Magnezone is affected by EQ, as you could say it messes up it's magnet stability or something >_> and Magnet Rise lets it... soar higher? I dunno, tbh anything that floats or flies majority of the time (Metagross CAN float, but he's usually on the ground) should get ground immunity. <_< It probably wont happen, but it seems logical to me.
Anyways, I think Gamefreak needs to make a bit of a change regarding what ground-type attacks hit. I will never understand WHY Beedrill, Venomoth, and Dustox were affected by Earthquake. They have wings, so they obviously fly... Just because they're poison type doesn't mean they hang out on the ground or something. I think any winged pokemon should inherently avoid ground-type attacks. It's kinda justifiable why Magnezone is affected by EQ, as you could say it messes up it's magnet stability or something >_> and Magnet Rise lets it... soar higher? I dunno, tbh anything that floats or flies majority of the time (Metagross CAN float, but he's usually on the ground) should get ground immunity. <_< It probably wont happen, but it seems logical to me.
That's actually untrue; they'd have the same damage.
No...
252 Atk Adamant Ampharos Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 58.6% - 69.2%
252 Atk Adamant Deoxys Brick Break vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 47% - 55.6%
Here's hoping that with all the changes to the Eeveelutions, we finally get:
1) A Dragon-Type Eeveelution
2) Flamethrower (and maybe some other coverage moves like Tbolt/Ice Beam) on Espeon.
Removing Espeon's need to rely on HP via Flamethrower not only gives it a BP upgrade but a spot on Sun teams. This still doesn't make up for its status as a glass cannon, but it would give it some more reliable coverage, and the availability to be used by people who don't hack or bother with RNG abuse. With Espeon's stat spread, just the addition of Flamethrower could easily bump it up to UU. Like,
Espeon @Choice Scarf
~Synchronize~
Sunny Day
Trick
Flamethrower
Psychic
4 Def
252 SpA
252 Spe
Actually...give that cat Stealth Rock too and we're looking at UU Lead Jirachi.
1) A Dragon-Type Eeveelution
2) Flamethrower (and maybe some other coverage moves like Tbolt/Ice Beam) on Espeon.
Removing Espeon's need to rely on HP via Flamethrower not only gives it a BP upgrade but a spot on Sun teams. This still doesn't make up for its status as a glass cannon, but it would give it some more reliable coverage, and the availability to be used by people who don't hack or bother with RNG abuse. With Espeon's stat spread, just the addition of Flamethrower could easily bump it up to UU. Like,
Espeon @Choice Scarf
~Synchronize~
Sunny Day
Trick
Flamethrower
Psychic
4 Def
252 SpA
252 Spe
Actually...give that cat Stealth Rock too and we're looking at UU Lead Jirachi.
Well, I used the calcs on Psypoke and Marriland and they both gave me the same result and the same damage with each attack.
I just used Marriland's and got two different numbers, the 75 base attack Pokemon was higher... You must not be doing something right. You should be inputting "273" for the Pokemon using Focus Punch, and "438" for the Pokemon using Brick Break.
Weavile's max Attack stat is only Lucario's by 106.2%, however, Close Combat's base power is Night Slash's about 171.4%, which is a much much larger difference.
To make it sound more simple, I'll just multiply the max Attack stats with the Base Powers.
Weavile- 372(Atk stat)*70(Night Slash)*1.5(STAB) = 39060
Lucario- 350(Atk stat)*120(Close Combat)*1.5(STAB) = 63000
Weavile's Atk stat isn't far from Lucario's, while Close Combat's base power is much much much farther than Night Slash's power.
Base Power matters more IMO as well, think Blashepmy's right. I ran a calc and his calcs are correct. I wish Night Slash's BP got upgraded to 95.
I too hope Night Slash and Shadow Ball get upgraded to 90 BP, like Leaf Blade and Aura Sphere/Psychic. Probably won't happen though!
Wait, how are the other starters getting new ability's?
I though only the Kanto ones get them?
I though only the Kanto ones get them?
If we are getting old pokemon with new abilties than give me a Regirock with Solid Rock and I'll be happy forever.
We've only been discussing this for the past 5 pages....
On the subject of what should be immune to hail discussed a few pages back, having Water and pokemon with Thick Fat immune to hail would solve a lot of its problems. Now with immunity being granted two pokemon types with fire resistances being made immune to hail, Hail based teams are suddenly looking much better. Hariyama and Snorlax would be two welcome additions to hail teams, providing powerful physical offense to offset ice's natural special dependence.
Also, my ideal wishlist for the new starters abilities would be the following:
Blastoise: Shall Armor
Charizard: Intimidate
Venesaur: Natrual Cure
Fraligator: Water Veil
Typholsian: Flash Fire
chickoreta: Flower Gift
Mudkip: Earthquake Spiral
Fire chicken: Quick Feet
Sceptile: Herbivore
Peliper: Thick Fat
Torterra: Earthquake Spiral
Infernape: Guts
Also, my ideal wishlist for the new starters abilities would be the following:
Blastoise: Shall Armor
Charizard: Intimidate
Venesaur: Natrual Cure
Fraligator: Water Veil
Typholsian: Flash Fire
chickoreta: Flower Gift
Mudkip: Earthquake Spiral
Fire chicken: Quick Feet
Sceptile: Herbivore
Peliper: Thick Fat
Torterra: Earthquake Spiral
Infernape: Guts
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