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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 1 - ...wait, I'm not Jumpman16!
- Thread starter Philip7086
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Honestly, Latios has been counterable. Usually, on their first switch in, they go for Draco Meteor. I send in something that's about to die, and get KOed. I send in Scizor, and either Pursuit, or U-Turn out, depending on if I want to keep up the momentum.
Darkrai has been a thorn in the side, so I decided to use him myself. Honestly, I haven't done much with him, except for one match, where Focus Blast missed, and Scizor U Turned the shit out of me. If you don't get your counter Dark Voided, Darkrai is manageable. I think Salamence still does more for my team, than does Darkrai.
Darkrai has been a thorn in the side, so I decided to use him myself. Honestly, I haven't done much with him, except for one match, where Focus Blast missed, and Scizor U Turned the shit out of me. If you don't get your counter Dark Voided, Darkrai is manageable. I think Salamence still does more for my team, than does Darkrai.
If I had to nominate two Pokemon, it would be Manaphy and Shaymin-S.
Manaphy in the rain is nearly impossible to stop. Most attacks don't score a 2HKO on Manaphy outside of Draco Meteor coupled with Choice Specs/Dragon Jewel/White Herb or strong STAB Electric attacks, and you basically need a 2HKO to win against it. Draco Meteor doesn't even work since you can just Rest the first incoming Draco Meteor and wall the second.
Shaymin-S basically wins you games you shouldn't win to a degree that it's a little ridiculous. Air Slash flinches checks and counter-measures to death, Leech Seed + Substitute wears out checks and counter-measures Air Slash is unlikely to flinch to death safely, and Seed Flare demolishes anything that would normally wall Shaymin-S.
Anything else that's been used has been less than adequate, I'd say. Although, Deoxys-A hits really freaking hard, so that might be a concern down the road.
Manaphy in the rain is nearly impossible to stop. Most attacks don't score a 2HKO on Manaphy outside of Draco Meteor coupled with Choice Specs/Dragon Jewel/White Herb or strong STAB Electric attacks, and you basically need a 2HKO to win against it. Draco Meteor doesn't even work since you can just Rest the first incoming Draco Meteor and wall the second.
Shaymin-S basically wins you games you shouldn't win to a degree that it's a little ridiculous. Air Slash flinches checks and counter-measures to death, Leech Seed + Substitute wears out checks and counter-measures Air Slash is unlikely to flinch to death safely, and Seed Flare demolishes anything that would normally wall Shaymin-S.
Anything else that's been used has been less than adequate, I'd say. Although, Deoxys-A hits really freaking hard, so that might be a concern down the road.
Honestly, Deoxys-A isn't that broken. It's extremely powerful, but it goes down to a tap. I'm all for banning Manaphy, but Shaymin-S is basically a souped-up Jirachi in my eyes so maybe.
i think if suspect test is made, every prominent threats must be tested like dory, rando, chomp, wobby(this thing make me thing quintiple time to use ranky TT), and the "last gen ubers". i usualy try to use toxicroak during this meta though. with hazard deo-A is beaten when they predict wrong once in 4. It resist focus pulse from darkrai so i only need to absorb the void. but shaymin-s.... somehow the hax in PO is outrageous. for example i ever has my dialga at full health(specs) KOed by Scarf Jirachi with 12 in a row flinchhax
Just want to say how good a core of Hitmontop and Magnezone are in this meta. Life Orb Technician Hitmontop deals with most frail sweepers like Deoxys-A, Darkrai, Doryuzuu, Blaziken. Straight up beats ALL of them in a fight with Fake Out + Mach Punch. Balloon Timid Magnezone not only singlehandedly destroys Nattorei+Burungeru, but also does a number on Skymin, and Magnet Pull is REALLY good at locking down Nattorei, Scizor, Skarmory, and even the odd Empoleon. You can even break Doryuzuu Balloons. If you add in Venusaur, you start destroying Rain Teams. Venusaur also solves your Roobushin problem with Sleep Powder and Leech Seed and a useful fighting resist, and also comes in against most bulky waters (That aren't scared off by Magnezone, anyways.)
I have the same question...It would be great if someone could answere this.
Well anyway im pretty much convinced Darkrai,Doe-A/N,Manaphy have to go.
Darkrai is just far too good with a high accuracy sleep move,Sky high Special attack and speed,Decent bulk and great coverage.
Deo-A/N hits far too hard and they truly have no safe switch ins as even most resisted hits are gona kill things with its amazing stats.
Manaphy in Perma Rain is just scary in OU.Cm showed its worth in ubers last gen and its just far too powerful for Standard as your probably not going to straight out ohk0 it and if you dont do that it can simply just heal back up.
It's likely that a list with the accounts that met the requirements will be posted in Uncharted Territory at the end of the testing period. So you'll probably just be asked to identify your alternate account in that thread. The suspect process has always worked this way.
Thank you, Philip, for your time and good luck with the suspect process.
I've actually had a lot of success using Honchkrow as a counter. All you have to do is predict the psychic attack and switch in. Then, you OHKO with Sucker Punch.
Honchkrow is also generally useful for blocking sleep, devastating Lati@s, and countering grass types.
If you read the first post, it's pretty easy to determine that the Standard OU ladder will be used. There's no need for a suspect tier as nothing new is being introduced to the game.
Dream World is a "for fun" tier that has no bearing on the official metagames.
Except that a no Atk EVs Deoxys can almost OHKO Honckrow with extremespeed after SR. That's not really a counter since you need to predict perfectly to switch in, and not even a revenge killer as ES will likely finish you off before you can even scratch Deoxys.
I wrote out a long response to this, but I ended up losing it due to internet difficulties. >___>
Summing up the most important point I wrote out:
Barely average defenses, common weaknesses, SR weak, and very unreliable STAB moves do not come together for a consistent performer. Shaymin-S can cause a lot of frustration when playing against it (if it gets lucky, other games it misses and just gets taken out), but it's also not going to be sending anyone skyrocketing up the ladder any time soon. Not to mention that for all its "legendary" speed, it often finds itself left in the dust in this meta-- there's just too much speed running around. It's not easy to abuse, and it's not a reliable teammate conducive to good ladder performance. It will never be a favorite amongst the best players.
If you want to ban it on the fact that its luck factors can often cause weaker players to win (and sometimes when it misses, cause a better player to lose) than by all means ban it by logic similar to the ban of OHKO moves-- but don't kid yourself into thinking that Shaymin-S is taking the meta by storm and that everyone will pack one like Garchomp in 4th Gen. That's just not happening.
Basically posting to say I agree with Jabba, Skymin is the best poke in the game. I've been using it and winning is essentially effortless. If you get lucky you can take out an entire team, even if you don't you still take out 1-2 pokes. The only safe switch in to scarf (set I've been running) is Blissey/Chansey and they are set up bait for a lot of other stuff. I can't wait to see this thing banned.
I can't deal in possibility, I can only tell you my personal experience. I use Venusaur to counter the ever present Hippo and Tyranitar leads. Once Venusaur kills them/sleeps them, they'll often switch in Deoxys-A to try and finish the job. The enevitable Psycho Shock is easy to see coming. I switch to Honchkrow, eat the the attack, the OHKO with Sucker Punch. ExtremeSpeed normally does about 2/3 to my bird. I guess it's bulkier then most honchkrow. Rocks never go up as I sleep them before they get the chance. Even if they predict and go with a different attack to kill on the switch, Hitmontop comes in and kills with Fake Out.
In this case, then, you're using two Pokemon (Honch+Hitmontop) just to "check" Deoxys, because neither of both can be defined a "counter". And I'm not entirely sure that Honch and Hitmontop are worth two Pokemon slots into a standard OU team. I'm not saying that Deoxys is really that broken, as I've been able to play around it myself, but there are symptoms that it may still be too powerful even in Gen V.
Seriously? I'm testing skymin right now, and the scarf set is nowhere near broken. Sure, it's fast, but it's frail, especially without sub. You have to remember that it's using unSTABed attacks for coverage off an unboosted special attack stat. I'm using a modest 351 speed (before scarf) set, and I'm missing out on a lot of KOs. While the seed flare/air slash/hp ice/ earth power set is good for coverage, It can't just switch in and decimate whatever it wants.
I'm keeping an open mind. I'll start with the opinion that anything with a BST of 670 or higher besides slaking and regigigas is uber. These pokemon are, generally, extremely powerful attackers with unmanageable bulk. They're in a class of their own.
All of the pokes being discussed (namely darkrai, manaphy, skymin, lati@s, mew, deoxys and wobb) don't seem to be uber to me. I'll test them to confirm, but manaphy seems like the only possibility. It looks pretty deadly on paper.
There could be one poke who rises into prominence (a la garchomp) this gen, but I think we should give it the chance to do so. The metagame is still evolving, let it dry it's wings.
BTW, my rating is currently 1024 on 5th gen standard OU. If I manage to reach 1500, will I have to maintain it for a certain duration/until a date?
Have you completely forgotten that Darkrai learns Focus Blast? Nattorei/Ttar hardly wall him when Focus Blast hits them really, really hard. Darkrai gets good enough coverage with Dark Pulse + Focus Blast, he doesn't really need to use anything else.
I was there when PO first brought in the fifth gen pokemon and they basically did everything that is going on right now. They tested Darkrai, Manaphy, Shaymin-S, Deoxys forms, and wobbuffet. Darkrai, Manaphy, Shaymin-S and Deoxy-A (i believe) got banned. I say we should go ahead and ban them because everyone's arguement is the exact same arguement used before to get them banned, which they did.
Lati@s, Chomp, Mence, are fine since they are more dragons that need looking at.
Dory is fine since he is a sweeper
Politoed should be left alone, if you attack him, attack all other weather inducing pokemon.
Outside of the pokemon that everyone is saying should be banned, everything else should be allowed so we can really see what the metagame is like with them.
Lati@s, Chomp, Mence, are fine since they are more dragons that need looking at.
Dory is fine since he is a sweeper
Politoed should be left alone, if you attack him, attack all other weather inducing pokemon.
Outside of the pokemon that everyone is saying should be banned, everything else should be allowed so we can really see what the metagame is like with them.
This can be said of a lot of pokes. Do you think it's too powerful?
It instantly dies to Ice Beam, but nothing that gets Ice Beam out-speeds Skymin. So you'll need to Scarf a 'mon with Ice Beam to insta-KO.
Of course, SR is a weakness.
But personally, I do think it's too powerful. Serene Grace gives Seed Flare an 80% chance to halve the opponents Sp Def. That means that 1vs1, it beats Blissey. In addition it can spam Air Slash with a 60% flinch chance. So can Togekiss, but Togekiss doesn't have 127 base speed.
Another interesting move I've seen on Skymin. Healing Wish. I know that many pokes get it, but when Skymin instantly heals something like, say.... a Roopushin/Manaphy, it allows them to clean up the weakened pokemon that Skymin didn't kill. I'm not sure what makes Skymin different than other pokes who possess this move, but its Healing Wish makes an excellent Explosion-esque move (the old Explosion).
Earth Power lets it beat most Steels who resist both STABs. Not anything special, just a move that goes so well on this 'mon.
Anyway, do I think that Skymin is over-centralizing? No.
Do I think it is over-powering? Yes.
It's true that good players can beat it without losing half their team, but not everyone is a good player. Smogon is a competitive community, and only the elite succeed, generally speaking. But when you make it so that only the elite can really play OU, you'll probably cut the player base by a significant amount.
That being said, we still have to test Skymin, because it could be non-broken this Gen. My opinion isn't necessarily correct.
This. If we don't actually test things before making conclusions, the process can be slightly undermined as well as possibly untrue. That's why I nominated it as a suspect.
With Growth acting as a nasty plot in the sunlight, I find it hard to see what's going to be walling skymin on drought teams. While grass may be an awful attacking type, skymin will be firing off +2 Seed Flares with STAB that have an 80% chance to sharply lower defense. Sure, there are things like Nattorei and Blissey. But niether one of those pokemon are going to like taking +2 STAB air slashes after the special defense drop. This isn't even accounting for the flinch rate (which I do not think should be a defining factor at all in Skymin being banned).
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