np: OU Suspect Testing Round 2 - Who am I to break tradition?

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The thing about Rankurusu is it's so called "counters" (basically Scizor, TTar, and stuff that can fire Specs DM's off against it) are all really situational, all but Scizor dieing if they switch into the wrong attack, or getting set up on if misplayed even slightly. And then you have to consider that the offensive Trick Room set is arguably the single most anti metagame Pokemon right now, and that with Rocks up, basically nothing barring Scizor can swap in against it and not be KO'd (though Scizor can't take two LO Focus Blasts with minimal hazard support). And if you're relying on something like Blissey/Chansey to beat the otr set? Outright loses to the Calm Mind set. Or if your best way of beating sweepers like rank is through defensive pivoting to wear them down through Life Orb? Doesn't work on Rank, of course.

Honestly, the thing is just so damn bulky, taking even some SE hits with relative ease, not being worn down by hazards, weather, LO, or status, and posing a massive offensive threat, is completely anti metagame, and, well, a bit overpowered.
 
If theres something that troubl me this meta ive got to say it is ONLY doryuuzu.
I must admit this. My team is mostly covered well to rain AND sand and carying some unique tactics as their playstyle but doryuuzu really take the cake and eat it.
Well lets just say im calling it Dory mind infesting syndrome

Whenever i play or made team and use this thing, i always remember what if dory do this and fuck me up in which even after i put gliscor which is so called the best counter, i get fucked up more than i could imagine. They switch out and fuck me even more then send it again to replay the cycle. Soooo many great stuff in previous meta become wrecked just because dory exist, its unbelieveable. Thats why i kinda support it. Yeah im siding with the not sure why it doesnt banned last period guys.

As for ranky, to hell with that. I never ever even have a single heck of a problem with that thing. everything he do is just to easy to plot up and manipulate. Its NOT THAT kind of broken its just good. And nattrei, even more to hell. Hes my ultimate set up bait so i surely wont agree for a ban.
 
The thing about Rankurusu is it's so called "counters" (basically Scizor, TTar, and stuff that can fire Specs DM's off against it) are all really situational, all but Scizor dieing if they switch into the wrong attack, or getting set up on if misplayed even slightly. And then you have to consider that the offensive Trick Room set is arguably the single most anti metagame Pokemon right now, and that with Rocks up, basically nothing barring Scizor can swap in against it and not be KO'd (though Scizor can't take two LO Focus Blasts with minimal hazard support). And if you're relying on something like Blissey/Chansey to beat the otr set? Outright loses to the Calm Mind set. Or if your best way of beating sweepers like rank is through defensive pivoting to wear them down through Life Orb? Doesn't work on Rank, of course.

Honestly, the thing is just so damn bulky, taking even some SE hits with relative ease, not being worn down by hazards, weather, LO, or status, and posing a massive offensive threat, is completely anti metagame, and, well, a bit overpowered.

I disagree. Reuniclus may be a good poke but he is no where near overpowered imo. I used him quite a bit this past suspect round and found him to be pretty manageable. Calm Mind sets without recover get worn down by strong physical moves and with recover they are always missing coverage on other threats. Offenseive trick room is only effective for as long as trick room is up because it has no recovery and is slow as molasses. Once trick room is down, it gets worn down pretty easily.
 
What the hell is up with the Snow Cloak and Sand Veil nominations? I didn't realize so many people wanted to ban Garchomp, Sandslash, Cacturne, Glaceon, and Froslass. Or have all of these Pokemon been found in the Dream World?
 
All the noms of sand veil are because they theoretically get other abilities now. They're not all released yet, but I think it goes with the assumption that it would be banned on pokes with alternatives, but still allowed on pokes who had no other choice until they were released in dw.
 
A division of Wifi and Dream World would be really troublesome. Especially for pokemon with no other choice. However, it's still up in the air because as far as we know, Gamefreak might not even release some abilities.
 
A division of Wifi and Dream World would be really troublesome. Especially for pokemon with no other choice. However, it's still up in the air because as far as we know, Gamefreak might not even release some abilities.

That's the funny thing because if that is the case then why would they implement it in the game. They should have the sense that many people will eventually get their hands on it.

And as for Reuniclus, i've faced him in teams 3 (plus more) times in a row and each gave me problems to the point I've been needing to take it to a serious level. I've even put trick on my latios over HP fire just as a backup meassure.
 
That's the funny thing because if that is the case then why would they implement it in the game. They should have the sense that many people will eventually get their hands on it.

It's also why they put certain data on the cartridge that must be unlocked later through a Nintendo Event. I.e. Shaymin, Darkrai...

Even then, they might just release the 3rd Game with access to that data. So you never know.

I do agree with you that Reuniclus is a huge threat, given that the player using it is intelligent in the slightest lol.. I've found Trick Room Reuniclus to be the most troublesome personally. It comes in on a check, Trick Room on the switch, then proceeds to cause some serious damage with the Life Orb you know it carries.
 
To the person that said that parasect counters reuniculus, I'll have to agree with you based on past experience.
 
a lot of people are calling for deoxys n to be brought down
ive been running calcs and hes a beast
he can come in
get a cosmic power on their switch

He can take

a bullet punch from a banded adamant technician scizor 75% left

an x scixor from an unboosted ninjask no set can ohko him but 97 % is the max dmg

and an ice shard from a mamo with about 50% left

he cant take

sucker punch from an absol can kill him
but its prediction

.......................................................................
i just used the shoddy calc
and used 4th gen pokes
but can he be walled well with his base 150 on both atks?

plus he can run bolt beam and shadowball superpower coverage

edit: plus with Lo and 252 atk evs he can do about 30% to an absol
and outspeed its sucker punch with extreme speed
 
Cosmic Power sounds interesting... However, I'd imagine if Deo-N came down from Uber, people would be using it as an all-out attacker with no slot for a defensive boost. Pretty much a poor man's Deo-A.
 
And as for Reuniclus, i've faced him in teams 3 (plus more) times in a row and each gave me problems to the point I've been needing to take it to a serious level. I've even put trick on my latios over HP fire just as a backup meassure.

Even then though you gotta watch out. +1 Shadow Ball has a chance of OHKO on Latios.

The best move you could do is figure out what moves Reuniclus is using. Reuniclus suffers from a moveslot syndrome between Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. If it's using Calm Mind with Focus Blast, the Lati twins (and any bulky psychic type for that matter) can come in and trick or set up along side it. If it's running Calm Mind Shadow Ball Dark types and scizor and smack it around a bit.
 
I wonder how well cm/recover/shadow ball/focus blast would do....

I use that :P

Anyway,both Reuniclus sets have a serious problem.
TR sweeper? Not that bulky and often cannot carry Recover.
Bulky Set up sweeper? Needs quite of bit of CMs before he can do some decent damage,due to little investment in Sp.A and has to decide between being walled by all Psychic types(And Spiritomb/Sableye) or dealing small damage to the bulkier Psychic/Ghost types.

Also,although it's hard to OHKO him. You don't need to. It's not like he can Recover before you can knock off that last 40% of his HP. Anything that does at least 50% damage will force him to keep spamming Recover.
He's kinda like Snorlax.
Slow,Bulky,and once it sets up,it rips through everything.
Those who complain he makes stall unviable should also ban Shinpora,who can use Cosmic Power to make itself even bulkier than Reuniclus and has a trolled speed of 97(Still enough to out speed a few things) and fire off strong Assist Powers.

Reuniclus is not broken.
If your team is weak to it,do something about it.
You can just stick ONE strong Bug/Ghost/Dark move which will easily knock off a big chunk of HP. It's not like he has a myriad of resistances. He only resists lolPsychic and Fighting.
 
Because of Reuniclus's horrible base Speed, anything with Encore can ruin the CMer, especially Wobbuffet, who's actually faster despite having 33 base Speed. Magic Guard doesn't save it from being Slept either, so a sleeper can come in on a revenge and ruin it. Smeargle in particular can come in and Spore Rankurusu, and then set up something to pass to his teammate. Although I haven't used it before, Shubargo seems like a potentially good counter, since it resists Psychic, can afford to dump all its EVs into HP to weaken Focus Blast, and can destroy Reuniclus with Megahorn. He can even beat the Trick Room version because his base Speed is lower than Reuniclus's. As people have mentioned, Trick is a great counter for Reuniclus, because then it can't Recover its health and is locked into one move. Spiritomb of course is a great counter, who also seems to counter a lot of things in the metagame (yet people refuse to use it because "it's Spiritomb", which is absolutely retarded).

Specially Defensive Drapion, which was a pretty good set in Gen 4, can make a return to counter Reuniclus, due to immunity to Psycho Shock, super effective Crunch, and ability to take Reuniclus's attacks. Scizor of course is faster and hits with super-effective Bug moves.

Reuniclus seriously isn't that hard to play around; it seems extremely deadly on paper, but in practice, while it is admittedly a good pokemon, it's nowhere near broken. Also, I'm seeing some contradictions between some of the pro-ban Reuniclus people, which is making Reuniclus look a lot less counterable than it actually is. One minute they're saying that Reuniclus has 252 HP/252 Def Bold and it can take Crunches nice and easily. The next minute they're saying it also happens to have max SpA when they're basically implying that this guy OHKOs the metagame (yes I know no one actually said that, but it's definitely being implied when people basically say there's no counters and that nothing can switch in safely). Sorry, but you people are going to have to make up your mind. Last time I checked, the max amount of EVs a pokemon can have is 510, and 252+252+252 does not equal 510. Also, Reuniclus can't have Psycho Shock/Calm Mind/Recover/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast/Trick Room all on the same set.

Another thing I don't understand is that people were hating on Kyurem for having to rely on Focus Blast for coverage, but they seem to be perfectly fine with Reuniclus using it for coverage, despite the fact that most of the things Reuniclus is using it on will kill it if Focus Blast misses. Ie. If Focus Blast misses against Scizor, Reuniclus is either dead or on life support. There's also Tyranitar, who does the same thing. Sazandora can have the same deal as well. I don't know where this double standard came from.

One last thing is that it's not so easy for Reuniclus to just Recover off damage. 30 base Speed doesn't exactly allow for fast recovery, so if he took a big hit in the previous turn while he was trying to set up or attack, it's not likely that he can take another one since he'll be too slow to recover the damage off before the opposing pokemon attacks.

Also, I find it absurd that people are saying that Stall is unviable with Reuniclus around. Obviously people are still using Stall for a reason; if it was unviable, no one would use it. As long as Team Preview exists, Stall will always be viable IMO. Although I don't play Stall very much, those Physically Defensive Gyarados on Stall teams seem like they'd give Reuniclus a run for his money, and last Gen, a lot of Stall teams carried ScarfTar on the team just as a good stopper to Trick users; it doesn't seem any less viable now. Even though Crunch probably won't OHKO, it'll still do a lot of damage. Reuniclus will definitely not enjoy physically defensive Gliscor either, since Acrobat will definitely have Reuniclus recovering more than it would like to. Also, Reuniclus might hurt pure stall, but stall teams that don't carry completely offenseless pokemon will stand a chance.

Those who complain he makes stall unviable should also ban Shinpora,who can use Cosmic Power to make itself even bulkier than Reuniclus and has a trolled speed of 97(Still enough to out speed a few things) and fire off strong Assist Powers.

Agreed. Shinpora even has Roost, and because he's pretty fast, he might actually be able to get his recovery before the opponent lands their hit. And because of Cosmic Power, he can even stomach Crunches after a few and just Recover off the damage due to Cosmic Power raising both defenses. Reuniclus can stomach certain Crunches, but if he accidentally gets hit by one due to a misprediction and didn't use Recover that turn, he probably won't live through the next turn.
 
Spiritomb of course is a great counter, who also seems to counter a lot of things in the metagame (yet people refuse to use it because "it's Spiritomb", which is absolutely retarded).
Because of Reuniclus's horrible base Speed, anything with Encore can ruin the CMer, especially Wobbuffet, who's actually faster despite having 33 base Speed. Magic Guard doesn't save it from being Slept either, so a sleeper can come in on a revenge and ruin it.

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I have tried that before and must say it really works. Ranky for wobb is just another breakfast
Anyway only 1 set that scare me and thats Trick room recover 2 attack but even that only have 4 attack AND only the trick hindrance set is a bit broken which is my favorite set ever.

Well just admit this. Fully invested Base 130 Special attack WITH LO AND TIMID with aprox EXACT same move as ranky use is VERY WALLABLE LIKE CRAP its unbelieveably weak. Now your saying 125 SpA is powerful with 252 HP spread ? man you have serious misleading issue.
Also so what if it cant be OHKOes anyway ? bulky rank has too mant things that can 2HKO and he cant KO in return. Hes just a one predict and its done for.
Not saying it sucks . Its great but not crazy broken.

Last but not least i use Torterra in OU
 
Bologo I couldn't have said it any better. Reuniclus is a good pokemon but it's perfectly managable if people would actually try and counter it.

With the whole Drizzle thing,people just think that anything their team can't handle well = broken.
Reuniclus always gives my team a bit of a problem,but I'm always able to beat both sets.
The only mon in my team with any attack that can hit him for SE is Shandera,and I don't even use it to fight Reuniclus :/
Just do some smart switching,and wear it down.
 
Because of Reuniclus's horrible base Speed, anything with Encore can ruin the CMer, especially Wobbuffet, who's actually faster despite having 33 base Speed. Magic Guard doesn't save it from being Slept either, so a sleeper can come in on a revenge and ruin it. Smeargle in particular can come in and Spore Rankurusu, and then set up something to pass to his teammate. Although I haven't used it before, Shubargo seems like a potentially good counter, since it resists Psychic, can afford to dump all its EVs into HP to weaken Focus Blast, and can destroy Reuniclus with Megahorn. He can even beat the Trick Room version because his base Speed is lower than Reuniclus's. As people have mentioned, Trick is a great counter for Reuniclus, because then it can't Recover its health and is locked into one move. Spiritomb of course is a great counter, who also seems to counter a lot of things in the metagame (yet people refuse to use it because "it's Spiritomb", which is absolutely retarded).

Specially Defensive Drapion, which was a pretty good set in Gen 4, can make a return to counter Reuniclus, due to immunity to Psycho Shock, super effective Crunch, and ability to take Reuniclus's attacks. Scizor of course is faster and hits with super-effective Bug moves.

Reuniclus seriously isn't that hard to play around; it seems extremely deadly on paper, but in practice, while it is admittedly a good pokemon, it's nowhere near broken. Also, I'm seeing some contradictions between some of the pro-ban Reuniclus people, which is making Reuniclus look a lot less counterable than it actually is. One minute they're saying that Reuniclus has 252 HP/252 Def Bold and it can take Crunches nice and easily. The next minute they're saying it also happens to have max SpA when they're basically implying that this guy OHKOs the metagame (yes I know no one actually said that, but it's definitely being implied when people basically say there's no counters and that nothing can switch in safely). Sorry, but you people are going to have to make up your mind. Last time I checked, the max amount of EVs a pokemon can have is 510, and 252+252+252 does not equal 510. Also, Reuniclus can't have Psycho Shock/Calm Mind/Recover/Shadow Ball/Focus Blast/Trick Room all on the same set.

Another thing I don't understand is that people were hating on Kyurem for having to rely on Focus Blast for coverage, but they seem to be perfectly fine with Reuniclus using it for coverage, despite the fact that most of the things Reuniclus is using it on will kill it if Focus Blast misses. Ie. If Focus Blast misses against Scizor, Reuniclus is either dead or on life support. There's also Tyranitar, who does the same thing. Sazandora can have the same deal as well. I don't know where this double standard came from.

One last thing is that it's not so easy for Reuniclus to just Recover off damage. 30 base Speed doesn't exactly allow for fast recovery, so if he took a big hit in the previous turn while he was trying to set up or attack, it's not likely that he can take another one since he'll be too slow to recover the damage off before the opposing pokemon attacks.

Also, I find it absurd that people are saying that Stall is unviable with Reuniclus around. Obviously people are still using Stall for a reason; if it was unviable, no one would use it. As long as Team Preview exists, Stall will always be viable IMO. Although I don't play Stall very much, those Physically Defensive Gyarados on Stall teams seem like they'd give Reuniclus a run for his money, and last Gen, a lot of Stall teams carried ScarfTar on the team just as a good stopper to Trick users; it doesn't seem any less viable now. Even though Crunch probably won't OHKO, it'll still do a lot of damage. Reuniclus will definitely not enjoy physically defensive Gliscor either, since Acrobat will definitely have Reuniclus recovering more than it would like to. Also, Reuniclus might hurt pure stall, but stall teams that don't carry completely offenseless pokemon will stand a chance.



Agreed. Shinpora even has Roost, and because he's pretty fast, he might actually be able to get his recovery before the opponent lands their hit. And because of Cosmic Power, he can even stomach Crunches after a few and just Recover off the damage due to Cosmic Power raising both defenses. Reuniclus can stomach certain Crunches, but if he accidentally gets hit by one due to a misprediction and didn't use Recover that turn, he probably won't live through the next turn.

I agree with all this. Rankurusu is decent but not bannable (although he is annoying if you don't have something for him but so is Blaziken and a bajillion other good things). Shinpora Cosmic Power seems really cool and I am going to run that sometime (if the opponent has no Dark or Steel Psychic, Assist Power is going to plow all over them once it gets enough Cosmic Power boosts) and is has a really good speed and roost. 4x resist to Fighting and resists to Psychic are valuable as well.

I'm surprised people don't use Shubarago (or whatever) the steel/bug. It has the exact same typing as Scizor and Scizor's typing is phenomenal. It has the exact same base hp and a higher attack stat and much higher defenses as well (even better to absorb dragon attacks and non Hp Fire things) and could be used on Rain to turn those who attempt to Trick Room against them because it is really slow and is even slower than Rankurusu so it'll outspeed in Trick Room and ohko with Stab Super-effective Megahorn (unless it's max hp/max def Rank but it isn't going to survive the next hit and Rankurusu can't exactly do anything to Shubarago because the best it has is +1 Life Orb Focus Blast which is only a 2 hit ko). It also has Swords Dance and Megahorn/Iron Head smash hard. It definitely wishes it had Bullet Punch but it isn't horrible even though it's movepool is disappointingly small. Swords Dance/Megahorn/Iron Head/and some last slot, usually Substitute (which helps a lot with prediction and checking for Hp Fire though). But it could run Rain Dance (let's support those rain teams and have something to plow through Trick Room, laugh at Nattorei, and be a surprise Rain set up poke that also cuts a 4x fire weakness into two and it has much better special defense than Scizor) or Fast Guard (protects team against priority moves, could be a surprise option in supporting Doryuzu, Kyurem, etc against priority). It could even run Counter or Iron Defense against physical attackers. Rock Smash is a lame option though, even against Heatran. A +4 Rock Smash doesn't ohko even a min/min Heatran without Stealth Rock.

The double standard on Focus Blast for Kyurem and and Rankurusu is ridiculous. A +1 Life Orb Focus Blast is a 2 hit ko on Scizor while Choice Band Bug Bite (or Swords Dance) is an ohko. Kyurem can 2 hit ko Scizor with Specs Blizzard (at same accuracy but in Hail at 100 and people are using Hail to counter rain) or be eved to survive a 2 hit ko from Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch, even after Stealth Rock, behind Reflect. And Kyurem is a definite underrated attacking and defensive force. Stealth Rock (and Scizor) are on the downlow and trust me if Scizor isn't breaking through, Breloom is a fool to try and is actually weak to Ice and is outsped. It also has valuable resists for water/ice/grass and might be something to consider on Trick Room (not exactly terribly slow but in Trick Room murdering all the faster dragons is fun since with screens as well, they couldn't break you even if they did survive).
 
Fast Guard (protects team against priority moves, could be a surprise option in supporting Doryuzu, Kyurem, etc against priority).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear Fast Guard was a one turn thing like Protect, not a lingering effect like Reflect? In which case it's usefulness outside of Doubles is virtually nil, sadly.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear Fast Guard was a one turn thing like Protect, not a lingering effect like Reflect? In which case it's usefulness outside of Doubles is virtually nil, sadly.

Oh darn it, I wasn't paying attention and thought it lasted 5 turns like Gravity/Trick Room/etc. At least then it might have been something useful. Shubarago is not afraid of priority at all.

But you'd think Shubarago would be used on Rain Dance teams. It absorbs Dragon moves, laughs at Hp Fire moves in rain, turns Trick Room against people, absorbs Nattorei Power Whips like nothing and doesn't give a darn about paralysis (except for the 25% not attacking but the speed lowering is nothing) and uses Nattorei as total set up bait for Sub and Swords Dancing (they have the exact same speed as well) and Megahorn is neutral so after Swords Dance Nattorei is lunch bait, neutral to fighting and survives (barely, but it can take a hit and do massive damage back before dying) +1 Life Orb Birijion Focus Blast, rips through Toxicroak and Abomasnow, etc.
 
Too many people are getting carried away with preemptive bans >_>.

I don't understand the Sand Veil/Snow Cloak ban (Especially Snow Cloak, since ya know, HAIL SUCKS), especially since neither have been properly tested (Sand Veil being the reason Chomp sweeps rarely happens, and all Gliscors have basically given it up for Poison Heal.) Not to mention not all of the pokes with these abilities have had their DW ability released (Come on I don't want to see Glaceon, Cacturne, or Froslass banned for stupid reasons).
 
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