Copycat cannot choose your own move, so how is it going to choose Roar or Overhead Throw to ignore priority?
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Creative (and good) Movesets (READ THE OP FIRST)
- Thread starter sax king
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Copycat cannot choose your own move, so how is it going to choose Roar or Overhead Throw to ignore priority?
I think I understand how this works. Veekun says Copycat has a priority of +0, is not an attack, and copies the last move used successfully by any pokemon, regardless of who used it.
Riolu uses Overhead throw (or roar) to go last. Then, next turn, it uses a MH +1 priority Copycat. Copycat goes first, copies OT or Roar, and they get shuffled before they can act.
Probably:
Riolu@Evo Stone
Mischevious Heart
Impish 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SD
~Overhead Throw
~Copycat
~Roar
~Death Gamble/Life Gamble (Have we got a name for this yet?)
Overhead throw and roar on the same set? Yes. Overhead throw does damage and breaks balloons and activates chople berries. Roar hits ghosts. Copycat for the reasons explained above, and Death Gamble/life gamble for priority U-Turn when you run out of copycat. Does 221 damage in exit.
I'll test this in cartridge to make sure copycat works this way.
Ouch. Not being faster than the base 100's hurt. And actually, I partly agree with you. Rock typing sucks defensively, and it Sp.D and HP still arent that good. But still, it could be painful
Reposting this.I've been experimenting for some time with the following Blaziken set:
Blaziken@Leftovers
Speed Boost
Impish
252 HP / 148 Atk / 80 Def / 28 Spe
Protect
Swords Dance
Hi Jump Kick
Shadow Claw
Before you laugh your ass off, let me tell you this is by no means is meant to be bulky. It is meant to survive priority moves. Impish and 252 HP / 80 Def guarantee you survive an Aqua Jet from CB Azumarill after Stealth Rock damage, which is probably the strongest priority you'll ever face.
Come in mid to late game on something choiced or something that can't touch you and Swords Dance up. Generally, a none boosted, none SE physical move won't OHKO you, giving you another chance to set up SD.
Hi Jump Kick and Shadow Claw provide marvelous coverage. Shadow Claw takes care of Lati@s/Pringles at +4, who think they can end your sweep.
28 speed EVs nets you 203 speed stat, which hits 406 after two speed boosts, allowing you to out pace Pokemon who possess 404 speed (via Choice Scarf or Swift Swim). Rest in attack.
Of course, this isn't unstoppable, many things stop it cold, and status really hurts its survivability, but when used correct it can net you an effective sweep.
I used this set for a little while once back, and when it worked, it was awesome.
Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Bold
252 HP/252 DEF/4 SPD
~Defense Curl
~Softboiled
~Seismic Toss
~Toxic
Set uppers are the bane of this set obviously, but if you can manage to get Blissey to +6, there's pretty much no stopping her. Even after a single Defense Curl, she can take stuff like Garchomp's Outrage. Functions like a regular Blissey otherwise. You do have to forgo Healing Bell, so Toxic can screw this set over.
Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Bold
252 HP/252 DEF/4 SPD
~Defense Curl
~Softboiled
~Seismic Toss
~Toxic
Set uppers are the bane of this set obviously, but if you can manage to get Blissey to +6, there's pretty much no stopping her. Even after a single Defense Curl, she can take stuff like Garchomp's Outrage. Functions like a regular Blissey otherwise. You do have to forgo Healing Bell, so Toxic can screw this set over.
I think Copycat's slightly flawed on P-O, so it might not be implemented correctly.
Death Gambit would only take away 284 damage max, so it's pretty pointless. The Riolu I faced had Protect, though I imagine any move can go on this slot depending on what you like.
Protect is actually a pretty awesome move here, combined with Priority Copycat in a Lead position. You can use your opponents hazards against them (in which case Priority phazing really gets annoying), stick your own Screens up, Taunt them before they taunt you, steal your opponents boosts and then phaze them out before they get to use them - it all depends on what your opponent is doing. I'm glad to see an even more effective use of Copycat here.
I tried MH Mirror Move Murkrow once but it glitched like hell.
Not that creative, but i saw no other till now so i decided to Post it
Rain Passing Celebi:
@Leftovers
252 HP/ 252 Spe /4 (SpA/Atk)
Nature: Timid/Jolly
Nasty Plot/Swords Dance
Giga Drain /Seed Bomb
Earth Power /Zen Headbutt /Recover
Baton Pass
Yeah lots of Slashes but i think you know why they are there (if not take the physical Moves for SD, Special for NP).
Celebi is a great Baton Passer for Rain Teams, simply because grass types are always helpful for Rain Teams since they got good synergie with water types. Also Sweepers like Special Ludicolo and Special Kingdra lack ways to boost their attacking stat and therefore greatly appreciate a +2 SpA boost to make them even harder to stop.
Swords Dance may seem odd as all physical Rain Sweepers get Swords Dance (bar Kingdra who gets Dragon Dance) themself, however its not that easy to get an SD in with something as frail as Kaputops or Qwilfish since many teams would prefer to sacrifice something rather than allowing these Pokemon to set up.
Celebie on the other hand is something only a very few People would expect to set up since it typically is seen as a bulky support Pokemon that sets up SR and spreads paralysis not a Baton Passer wich often allows you to surprise your opponent making it easier to get more boosts or atleast having an easier time to pass the boost compared to Pokemon like Mew or Gorebyss that almost cry they are Baton Passing when your opponent first sees them in the Team preview window.
Rain Passing Celebi:
252 HP/ 252 Spe /4 (SpA/Atk)
Nature: Timid/Jolly
Nasty Plot/Swords Dance
Giga Drain /Seed Bomb
Earth Power /Zen Headbutt /Recover
Baton Pass
Yeah lots of Slashes but i think you know why they are there (if not take the physical Moves for SD, Special for NP).
Celebi is a great Baton Passer for Rain Teams, simply because grass types are always helpful for Rain Teams since they got good synergie with water types. Also Sweepers like Special Ludicolo and Special Kingdra lack ways to boost their attacking stat and therefore greatly appreciate a +2 SpA boost to make them even harder to stop.
Swords Dance may seem odd as all physical Rain Sweepers get Swords Dance (bar Kingdra who gets Dragon Dance) themself, however its not that easy to get an SD in with something as frail as Kaputops or Qwilfish since many teams would prefer to sacrifice something rather than allowing these Pokemon to set up.
Celebie on the other hand is something only a very few People would expect to set up since it typically is seen as a bulky support Pokemon that sets up SR and spreads paralysis not a Baton Passer wich often allows you to surprise your opponent making it easier to get more boosts or atleast having an easier time to pass the boost compared to Pokemon like Mew or Gorebyss that almost cry they are Baton Passing when your opponent first sees them in the Team preview window.
I used this set for a little while once back, and when it worked, it was awesome.
Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Bold
252 HP/252 DEF/4 SPD
~Defense Curl
~Softboiled
~Seismic Toss
~Toxic
Set uppers are the bane of this set obviously, but if you can manage to get Blissey to +6, there's pretty much no stopping her. Even after a single Defense Curl, she can take stuff like Garchomp's Outrage. Functions like a regular Blissey otherwise. You do have to forgo Healing Bell, so Toxic can screw this set over.
Blissey with defense curl just seems over the top. And losing Heal bell really stops it from supporting the team like it should. I think just having a Skarmory as a partner is the better option. Taking a Garchomps outrage is impressive though.
Rhydon (M) @ Evolution Stone Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
I have found that Rhydon is a very overlooked user of the Evolution Stone. It has better physical bulk then Swampert without the stone, with the stone it is Bulkier then a Skarmory. This set aims to take advantage of all that bulk. Sporting a wooping 414/456/283 defenses it can take hits like a champ. Taking a mere 41.1%-49.3% from a Yache Berry Garchomps Earthquake and only 36.2-42.5% from a Roohbushin's Drain Punch. It is able to wall almost any physical attack.
With Sandstorm up it becomes just as fearsome of a Special Wall. Latios@Choice Specs - 45.8 ~ 54.3%.
Curse+Dragon Tail means that the longer it is around, the harder it will be to kill.
EV's are to give maximum special and physical bulk after a Sandstorm. Full Defense EV's with an Impish Nature can give even more Physical power, but it loses a lot of it's special survivability.
What I think you meant here is magic coat (maybe). Sadly, Magic coat is not compatible with MH (its a fourth gen tutor). It would complement the set excellently. Life Gamble was for the U-turn equivilent. Counter or something random might work (I'm aware counter is MH'd to -4).
I'll test if copycat can be used this way.
Byrn Dragonstone said:
Rhydon (M) @ Evolution Stone Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Curse
It's been tried before, and the rock/ground typing usually hurts it too much. Remember, Def/SD evs > HP evs on evo pokemon (because 8 evs give you 3 points in the stat vs. 2 hp) so a better set may be 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SD Calm (or careful, whichever is +SD - SA)
People always misunderstand me :I
What I mean is the combination of Protect and Priority Copycat allows you to throw strategies back at your opponent. If you Protect and they Taunt, you just Taunt them back, etc.
Though i've actually found Substitute is a better move in this case, allowing you to block alot of stuff or at least be able to take a hit - pretty useful with negative priority. Protect takes up a moveslot but does allow you to conserve your health and stop taunts, as well as U-Turn away from Genosect leads etc., so it's pretty nice.
Here's a Bronzong set that counters a lot of Broken mons:
[SET]
name: Choice Band
Move1: Gyro Ball
Move2: Payback
Move3: Earthquake
Move4: Trick
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Brave
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Ivs: 0 Spe
This Bronzong is pretty much a hard Counter to a lot of dangerous Gen V threats out there. Most notably it counters Rankurusu, Landlos, Doryuuzu (Even with Balloon). Rankurusu is hit hard by SE Payback or crippled by Trick if it a CM variant that runs a -Spe nature and 0 IVs (since Rank has 30 Base Speed in oppose to Bronzong's 33 which sucks), Landlos is 2HKOed by Gyro Ball (sometimes OHKOed after SR) and Doryuuzu is also 2HKOed by Gyro Ball and OHKOed by Earthquake. Latios is OHKOed by both Gyro Ball and Payback with Stealth Rock factored in and obviously so is Latias. CB Bronzong is awesome to have and should be carried on almost any team that needs a one stop answer to those pokes if there's room for it.
EDIT: And I guess I'll try that Rhydon set, but I don't really have high hopes for it seeing as it's weak to the most common Physical moves in the game.
[SET]
name: Choice Band
Move1: Gyro Ball
Move2: Payback
Move3: Earthquake
Move4: Trick
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Brave
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Ivs: 0 Spe
This Bronzong is pretty much a hard Counter to a lot of dangerous Gen V threats out there. Most notably it counters Rankurusu, Landlos, Doryuuzu (Even with Balloon). Rankurusu is hit hard by SE Payback or crippled by Trick if it a CM variant that runs a -Spe nature and 0 IVs (since Rank has 30 Base Speed in oppose to Bronzong's 33 which sucks), Landlos is 2HKOed by Gyro Ball (sometimes OHKOed after SR) and Doryuuzu is also 2HKOed by Gyro Ball and OHKOed by Earthquake. Latios is OHKOed by both Gyro Ball and Payback with Stealth Rock factored in and obviously so is Latias. CB Bronzong is awesome to have and should be carried on almost any team that needs a one stop answer to those pokes if there's room for it.
EDIT: And I guess I'll try that Rhydon set, but I don't really have high hopes for it seeing as it's weak to the most common Physical moves in the game.
No kidding? That's awesome.
It's true, the research thread confirmed it. So it's basically going to hurt whatever comes in that doesn't resist it.
following that logic, couldn't you just drop Swords Dance and just run Roar AND D-Tail? That way the phazing happens more often and you don't have to worry about running into the Taunt/Sub dilemma
Yeah a set of Rest/Sleep Talk/DT/Roar was what I meant lol, sorry if that was unclear.
The Given EV's give the most special bulk possible, while retaining as much physical bulk too.
The Ground/Rock Typing isn't actually really bad. In fact it allows Rhydon to last even longer in some cases, as they have to switch insomething that is SE to hurt him (Garchomps Outrage only does 24.6 ~ 29.2%) and it allows Rhydon to Boost up with Curse. He does need to watch out for Water/Grass Attacks though (which is like saying Blissey needs to watch out for Physical Fighting Attacks) mostly ones on the special side, so he pairs well with Pokemon that can take those attacks. Salamence comes to mind as a Bulky Phaser that can take those attacks and help rack up Entry Hazards Damage.
Well, I'm having fun with this little guy in the Dream World. He's almost unstoppable when he gets going. He's like quick stall Mewtwo, but he always goes first making killing him a lot more difficult...
Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
Self explanatory except I use him with a Dragonite to set up on Uurgamosu that think they can set up on this guy.
Sableye (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
Self explanatory except I use him with a Dragonite to set up on Uurgamosu that think they can set up on this guy.
@ Poster above me, I've been using that set for months :naughty:
Sazandora @ Expert Belt/Life ORb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Cheer Up
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
- Crunch
From just one Cheer Up, Sazandora becomes much more of a threatening sweeper, on both ends of the spectrum.You can usually set up a Cheer Up whenever a Nattorei or any other Steel type comes in to take a Draco Meteor.
Sazandora @ Expert Belt/Life ORb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Cheer Up
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse/Draco Meteor
- Crunch
From just one Cheer Up, Sazandora becomes much more of a threatening sweeper, on both ends of the spectrum.You can usually set up a Cheer Up whenever a Nattorei or any other Steel type comes in to take a Draco Meteor.
Rain King
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Encourage
Nature: Modest
EV: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Earth Power
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
NidoKing could be used to supplement a rain dance/drizzle team(in which case rain dance could be change to surf(sadly he can not learn boiling water)).
Alone though you can use Rain Dance to give Thunder 100% accuracy while getting a boost from encourage.
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Encourage
Nature: Modest
EV: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Earth Power
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
NidoKing could be used to supplement a rain dance/drizzle team(in which case rain dance could be change to surf(sadly he can not learn boiling water)).
Alone though you can use Rain Dance to give Thunder 100% accuracy while getting a boost from encourage.
As said in the other thread, give an Optional Change mention to Surf in place of Rain Dance, in the event someone would want to run this on a Drizzle team. Not to say that running Rain Dance isn't a bad idea, because it can certainly really surprise some people.
Anyways, I REALLY like this build.
EDIT: This could ALMOST work with Sunny Day too, in which Fire Blast would get boosted twice, once by sun, and once by encourage. Regrettably, you don't get an accuracy boost on any moves like how Thunder does in rain.
You might not get perfect accuracy, but that Fire/Ground/Ice coverage sounds absolutely delicious.
If you're going to use Nidoking on a Drought team though, I'm not sure on the 4th move, but mayhaps Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt or Megahorn? Even with 0Atk it'll still rip Blissey/physically weak Psychics a new one.
Fire/Ice/Ground/Electric is amazing, Fire/Ice/Ground/Ghost laughs at every variation of Rotom, using Megahorn dares Blissey.
There is Rotom-W which is Electric/Water with Levitate by the way so Fire/Ice/Ground/Ghost does not cover every one while an offensive one carrying Specs/Life Orb (although I don't know what Rotom-W actually commonly carries, they might be more defensive) ohkoes with Hydro Pump even in sun while defensive ones still 2 hit ko while Nidoking can't really 2 hit ko them. I'd still go with Thunderbolt on Nidoking in Sun. Fire Blast/Thunderbolt/Earth Power/Icebeam has awesome coverage and in rain Thunder/Earth Power/Icebeam/Surf although I'm really digging the Rain Dance if you need another Rain Inducer and the weather changing pokes are not going to want to switch into Nidoking. Sadly, if you're using Megahorn/Sucker Punch, you kind of have to invest in Atk evs, taking from speed or special attack. A Life Orb Megahorn without any attack investment does 30.09-35.47% to Max def 688 Hp Blissey (Megahorn is never 2 hit koing Blissey. Actually, even with Max attack with a positive attack nature it can't 2 hit ko Blissey with Megahorn, you have to use Earthquake to achieve that with at least 275 Atk and Life Orb to ohko 6 hp/max def Blissey and 148 hp/252 def requires about 290 so you have to start running a +Atk nature. I don't see much point in trying to kill Blissey with Nidoking anymore when his special set is so much more effective this generation with Encourage and Blissey is actually much less seen).
Actually, it might be much more of a surprise to actually run a PHYSICAL mix Nidoking with Earthquake/Sucker Punch/Fire Blast/Thunderbolt (or Icebeam). People nowadays would expect Nidoking to go all special so when they get reamed by Sucker Punch or Earthquake, it'll be a surprise.
196 Atk/156 SAtk/156 Spd with a Naughty Nature Nidoking could be surprising. Rivalry or Encourage would both be options, with Encourage boosting the special moves and Rivalry boosting attack against males and neutral against genderless although females would lower it. This Nidoking makes an excellent Baton Pass target, able to attack on both sides, especially a Shell Smash receiver to crush through both special and physical walls with high speed.
While I like the concept of Rivalry, I don't think it's worth it. Losing 30% power against Blissey, for example, isn't exactly appealing.
Sceptile @ Bulb / Balloon
252 SAtk / 148 Atk / 108 Spd
Mild
Unburden
--Leaf Storm
--Dragon Pulse
--Acrobat
--Thunderpunch
This is one of the hardest rain counters there is, but is also a great set-up pokemon outside of rain. It shouldn't be too hard to lure in a Water move (especially from a Rain team), and the Water move will raise Sceptile's Special Attack. Still, if you want to be sure that Sceptile will work on non-rain teams, you can use Balloon and switch in on a weak move. With 108 Speed EVs, you are faster than all rain abusers (besides the rare Floatzel, Lumineon, and Luvdisc) and Doryuuzu. From here, with +1 SAtk, you can begin to sweep the opponent. Leaf Storm is strong STAB, but it lowers your SAtk, so it should only be used if necessary (such as on pokemon like Manaphy). The other moves have great coverage and hit many Rain abusers (Dragon Pulse is for Kingdra, Acrobat is for Ludicolo, Thunderpunch is for anyone else).
Did you test this out? Because this is an illegal set with Unburden. Dragon Pulse and Thunderpunch can not be used with Unburden since they aren't egg moves and are tm/move tutors. The only way I can think to have a useful set with Unburden is
Swords Dance/Leaf Blade/Acrobat/Brick Break with Grass Jewl. Grass Jewl powers up a Leaf Blade by quite a bit and after it is used up, Unburden will double Sceptile's speed so +2 Atk/Spd is pretty dangerous with Leaf Blade and Acrobat although sadly Sceptile doesn't have the greatest attack stat in the world. But it's useable.
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