If by ES you mean Extremespeed, Dragonite can get ES and DD.
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Scrafty
- Thread starter LudicoloGuy
- Start date
Oops...I just keep failing, don't I?
earthquake spiral actually but a pretty poor ability compared to his other options.
i need to keep myself together. dividing all my points into multiple posts is not doing me any good. i am also coming up with poor arguments in general because its 6 of the morning here(Not thinking very well) so i will just throw my last one for the day.
sure most DD users(not the bulky set users mind you) are 2hkoed by most moves coming from a decent atack stat, but they normally only need to setup once right? zuzu needs at least +2 on atack and speed to sweep on the same level(at +2 he is actually superior but there is no middle ground here) as +1 mence. the problem is that without evs on hp to back up his defenses he wont be taking hits much better then said dragon.
a set running max hp however would have a easy time setting up at least 2 DDs while still keeping the same power(at the cost of some speed but at +2 you outspeed most of what you need). thinking he can still wall without hp or defense evs is overestimating his defensive capabilities, i will edit some calcs later to show the difference between max and min hp.
edit: too lazy to copy and paste the calcs so i will just say the obvious: with min hp he will always be killed by LO kyurem draco meteor. nothing wrong so far? with max hp he will survive most of the time against said move. sure kyurem is not really common but anything that survive that thing and is not a steel type got my respect. this is just one calc but goes to show how bulky that thing is. roobushin drain punch? pretty much ohko min hp 59% of the time while never ohko max.
goes back to my main point: if you are going to run zuzu then run the bulky variant of whatever set you are using. i dont care if its BU or DD. just run at least max hp to make sure you almost never be koed by even SE moves, he is just too frail without said evs for that piss poor speed and average atack.
i need to keep myself together. dividing all my points into multiple posts is not doing me any good. i am also coming up with poor arguments in general because its 6 of the morning here(Not thinking very well) so i will just throw my last one for the day.
sure most DD users(not the bulky set users mind you) are 2hkoed by most moves coming from a decent atack stat, but they normally only need to setup once right? zuzu needs at least +2 on atack and speed to sweep on the same level(at +2 he is actually superior but there is no middle ground here) as +1 mence. the problem is that without evs on hp to back up his defenses he wont be taking hits much better then said dragon.
a set running max hp however would have a easy time setting up at least 2 DDs while still keeping the same power(at the cost of some speed but at +2 you outspeed most of what you need). thinking he can still wall without hp or defense evs is overestimating his defensive capabilities, i will edit some calcs later to show the difference between max and min hp.
edit: too lazy to copy and paste the calcs so i will just say the obvious: with min hp he will always be killed by LO kyurem draco meteor. nothing wrong so far? with max hp he will survive most of the time against said move. sure kyurem is not really common but anything that survive that thing and is not a steel type got my respect. this is just one calc but goes to show how bulky that thing is. roobushin drain punch? pretty much ohko min hp 59% of the time while never ohko max.
goes back to my main point: if you are going to run zuzu then run the bulky variant of whatever set you are using. i dont care if its BU or DD. just run at least max hp to make sure you almost never be koed by even SE moves, he is just too frail without said evs for that piss poor speed and average atack.
Moxie can be good in conjunction with DD to get an extra boost after your few DD's removing the need to waste another precious turn.
Moxie is probably one of the most overrated abilities ever, especially on a pokemon as bulky as Scrafty. If you run a DD/Drain Punch set, you could easily tank a hit and DD another time before recovering the lost HP with Drain Punch. Shed Skin is hands down the best ability for Scrafty. With it, you could set up on any defensive ghost and almost any bulky water without a phazing move. Shed Skin also allows you to provide a bit of team support, which is always useful. The main selling point of DD Scrafty is its ability to reliably gather multiple DDs every time it goes on the field, as opposed to other pokemon like Salamence who can usually only get one. Shed Skin enhances this advantage.
You can't honestly compare Scrafty's DD and BU sets and say that one is always better than the other. DD is better against offensive teams and BU is better against stall teams. That's all there is to it. If you are claim that one is superior, it's probably because your team is better suited to support that particular set.
It really irks me how people are bashing the BU set here. BU Scrafty is different from BU Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr is used whenever you can switch it in to open some holes. Scrafty is for the endgame when it's few counters are eliminated. The only Pokemon BU Scrafty can be seriously compared with is CM Reuniclus. Conkeldurr can't break stall the way Scrafty can.
You can't honestly compare Scrafty's DD and BU sets and say that one is always better than the other. DD is better against offensive teams and BU is better against stall teams. That's all there is to it. If you are claim that one is superior, it's probably because your team is better suited to support that particular set.
It really irks me how people are bashing the BU set here. BU Scrafty is different from BU Conkeldurr. Conkeldurr is used whenever you can switch it in to open some holes. Scrafty is for the endgame when it's few counters are eliminated. The only Pokemon BU Scrafty can be seriously compared with is CM Reuniclus. Conkeldurr can't break stall the way Scrafty can.
BU zuruzukin is not like Conkell. Buruzukin has shed skin which is good on some time and rest skin to get and its weakness is fighting and flying. Flying is irrelevant since it is used on mostly skarm and rainerosi. Fighting is. However its rare to find more than 2 user of that type in most team. SO he has niche and that seemms equal to me.
Just wait for that fucking intimidate zuruzukin. REally
Just wait for that fucking intimidate zuruzukin. REally
Why is it overrated? Maybe it is on Scrafty, but it would great for sweepers. The real problem isn't the ability but the distribution as well as it being compared to the other great ability options available, such as Intimidate.
Scrafty's other ability, Shed Skin, is actually a nice example of this. It was always a useful ability, but the only Pokemon who got it sucked.
Exactly. Moxie sounds good in theory, but most viable moxie users lose too much when they use moxie, like how Moxie Salamence can't use outrage and loses Intimidate, which is one of the best abilities to force a switch-out with. And you know how much moxie Salamence was hyped.
I love saying moxie. moxie moxie moxie moxie moxie
I thought that was a mistranslation and was later changed to overconfidence.
I've always wondered what earthquake spiral meant. I imagine it's some kind of "spiraling into disaster" kinda thing, where the EQ is the sweeper and the spiral refers to it becoming more and more destructive.
i really really really didnt need to tell you the ability because i made the assumptions that you actually read the post i made like 4 posts before yours. i guess i expected just a tad too much.
it is useful because unlike other dd sweepers, it has the best coverage every and one of the best offensive abilities ever. that and it totally destroys the common nattorei + burun + gliscor trio which is something that none of the other dders can. ok honestly so what if his defenses arent invested in. it survives a balloon dory eq. thats a stab earthquake from some 135 attack or something. thats pretty damn good. can you honestly say that it needs high speed at all? it outspeeds base 111s, which is really the top of the barrel at this point in the meta, and getting outsped by scarfers really doesnt make it inferior since the common scarfers are usually over the 100 base speed point anyway so they revenge things like mence too. that attack stat really doesnt become average when you get a moxie boost. and to all you saying moxie sucks, when on earth would you ever need shed skin on a dd zuru? the only situation i could see it remotely useful is shed skinning off that burn from burun when you tried dding on it.
It doesn't mean anything. It's just that when Serebii were revealing Warubiaru, they mistranslated his ability as "Earthquake Spiral", which apprently looks like and is like a character off the proper name "Overconfidence".
Translation fail.
I really feel this Poke's face design was really rushed, unlike its pre-evo which looks more up to standard.
That said it has interesting moves and I may try it out sometime.
I really feel this Poke's face design was really rushed, unlike its pre-evo which looks more up to standard.
That said it has interesting moves and I may try it out sometime.
Both the mons have the exact same face! only hes alittle more drugged out. (am i reading that right?)
And how does some thing look more standard?
It's probably the drugged out look I mean. Standard is probably the wrong word haha, I just think its an inventive design that some will love and some won't, me being one leaning more towards the negative end.
It's comical granted, just not my taste.
Regardless I like how it's capable of running in different ways, and it sounds a fun Poke to use, so I'll probably throw it into a team somewhere. It's typing gives good coverage too, and I'm not bitter about it having dark type > ghost (so not getting neutral coverage) because its type as is reflects it a little better.
Why on earth does it get dragon dance though when Heidragon doesn't? That seems really weird to me, or another TrollFreak moment.
Well, if you are using a DD set, then you can sweep at +1 (with Moxie) because you out-speed everything up to Purugly, and Moxie gives you all the attack you need.
And on the BU set, if you're running Rest, you already have a pseudo-immunity to status. And Shed Skin + Rest isn't that great, because you only have a 45% chance of waking up early.
Shed Skin is still an amazing ability. Because the DD set gets screwed over by paralysis or burn. But I'm just saying it doesn't completely out-class Moxie.
Don't worry about it. No one thinks well in the middle of the night.
Zuru doesn't really need +2/+2. He really only needs +1 Speed, and (if you run it) Moxie can help you get Attack boosts. In addition, Zuru has excellent super effective coverage in the current metagame, meaning that he can do more damage to a lot of things
At +2 Speed, with no investment, Zuru reaches 304 Speed. At +3 with no investment, he reaches 380 Speed.
+2 does not outspeed everything that it needs to. It doesn't outspeed very much at +2. By not running any Speed, it has to get to +3 to sweep.
Also, I never said he could wall. But I did say that he is bulky, having defenses on par with Suicune (though Cune has much more HP). Zuru can still take a hit, even with no defensive EVs.
But he will not always survive a Draco Meteor with max HP. Which means you still have a chance to get screwed.
Also, unless you're at, like, +6, you aren't going to be OHKOing a Roobushin. So even if max HP can survive the hit, it will still have to take another one. Which will kill it.
tl;dr Max HP is much bulkier and I understand that but you gave kinda bad examples :/
I disagree with this. Max HP = good. But it is not always the best spread. Maybe I just play my Zuru in a weird way? IDK, but I have never found him being KOed too easily.
Did you just say Zuru was frail? Really? He's not a Blissey or a Skarm, but calling him frail is just ridiculous.
i dont mean to say he frail in a general, what i mean is that for something with that atack and speed you would expect him to have better overall staying power.
pttp@ what stops me from running fire blast on DD mence to break said core? in fact i could just run a pure physical DD set with fire fang instead for the same results. one could argue fire fang sucks but with LO, adamant and at +1 its more then capable of ohkoing nattorei while outrage simply destroy everything else.
said adamant mence will both be faster and stronger then zuzu if both are at +1 too. if you want then go and use DD nite with fire punch instead. also break said core with easy.
pttp@ what stops me from running fire blast on DD mence to break said core? in fact i could just run a pure physical DD set with fire fang instead for the same results. one could argue fire fang sucks but with LO, adamant and at +1 its more then capable of ohkoing nattorei while outrage simply destroy everything else.
said adamant mence will both be faster and stronger then zuzu if both are at +1 too. if you want then go and use DD nite with fire punch instead. also break said core with easy.
nothing stops you from running fire blast, just the fact that even with it, nattorei beats mence with like leech seed + protect / gyro ball / thunderwave (slashes dont mean it has to be on same set) while zuru straight up beats them
said adamant mence is stronger at +1, but said jolly zuru is stronger at +2 which will happen.
you could run fire fang, but running an option for just one pokemon is pretty bad
said adamant mence is stronger at +1, but said jolly zuru is stronger at +2 which will happen.
you could run fire fang, but running an option for just one pokemon is pretty bad
fire fang ohko nattorei outright at +1. plus it also deal with scizor and all other steel\*insert typing weak to fire here* what is good enough reason to consider said move. fire blast is out of question since it cant ohko nattorei anyway.
jolly zuzu at +2 is not stronger then +1 adamant mence btw. a +1 mence got 607 atack while +2 jolly zuzu got 585 atack. while zuzu does become a bit faster then mence at +2 he is not outspeeding anything in particular salamence cant at +1.
in battle salamence will switch against a pokemon that can do nothing against him(scarf t-tar stuck with superpower for example. i saw quite a lot of them lately) and use DD on the switch. he is at full hp and chances are he is capable of killing the pokemon that just switched against him(any pokemon of the core you mentioned wont enjoy outrage at all and on nattorei case i already said he is ohkoed by +1 fire fang). on zuzu case however he need to setup 2 times to achieve about the same level of power and speed. that means he will be forced to take at least 1 hit in the process. one could argue he can set more DDs but no player worth of its sause will just leave a setup bait on the field.
my point is that to reach said atack and speed he will be taking a hit while salamence will not(or will be taking far less damage because you wont try to switch him against anything like ice beam right?)
jolly zuzu at +2 is not stronger then +1 adamant mence btw. a +1 mence got 607 atack while +2 jolly zuzu got 585 atack. while zuzu does become a bit faster then mence at +2 he is not outspeeding anything in particular salamence cant at +1.
in battle salamence will switch against a pokemon that can do nothing against him(scarf t-tar stuck with superpower for example. i saw quite a lot of them lately) and use DD on the switch. he is at full hp and chances are he is capable of killing the pokemon that just switched against him(any pokemon of the core you mentioned wont enjoy outrage at all and on nattorei case i already said he is ohkoed by +1 fire fang). on zuzu case however he need to setup 2 times to achieve about the same level of power and speed. that means he will be forced to take at least 1 hit in the process. one could argue he can set more DDs but no player worth of its sause will just leave a setup bait on the field.
my point is that to reach said atack and speed he will be taking a hit while salamence will not(or will be taking far less damage because you wont try to switch him against anything like ice beam right?)
in case you havent noticed scizor can use bullet punch, and skarmory/bronzong will appreciate you using fire fang over fire blast
zuru can set up on latios -2 draco meteor and unless ive been having seizures and mixing sprites up, specs latios is much more common than scarftar, so zuru is more likely to set up. zuru doesnt fucking need more than a boost how many times do you need to hear that? can you use the logic? english motherfucker do you speak it?
your point is hopelessly lost right now because you cant say mence doesnt need to take a hit and zuru has to.
lol what?
In case you haven't noticed,Scizor,Bronzong,and Skarmory are barely used anymore while Ferrothorn is all over the place.
Scrafty can set up on -2 Specs Latios' DM? Wonderful.
Salamence can set up T-tar's Superpower which if you haven't noticed,T-tar is one of the most used mons ATM T_T
Scrafty DOES need more than one boost to sweep because of his crappy 90 Attack while Mence only needs 1 DD to rip things apart.
Not saying Scrafty is bad,but IMO his DD set can't stand up to Mence's even with the almost unresisted STABs.
I see plenty of Scizor and Skarmory.