np: OU Suspect Testing Round 3 - So Long and Thanks for all the Fish

[AccidentalGreed]

Okay, so I've been testing out Gorebyss like everybody else said, and all I can say is this in a simple word: "It's AWESOME!!!111"

...Ahem, okay. So personally, I alternate between a Baton Pass set and an offensive version of that set. A team that I think is viable is a team with at LEAST one main recipient and a few "side-sweepers". I find that passing the boosts unintentionally to a "side sweeper" allows me to gain momentum and literally Shell Break walls until they can't take an assault from the main recipient. The strategy is flawed because Gorebyss can't always Shell Break twice, but it's gotten me far, actually. I also find that using White Herb Gorebyss offensively while giving it Baton Pass keeps the offensive momentum of my team healthy.

About Gorebyss, it actually has much physical bulk that it can actually check a few threats and not Shell Break. I've gotten in situations where an Excadrill or a Landuros in Sandstorm nearly breaks my team, and Gorebyss is always there to survive an unboosted Earthquake and get rid of it (even if Gorebyss been hurt by a few entry hazards). Gorebyss is virtually able to do at least something in the battlefield when it has the chance, in my experience.

The fact that Gorebyss can set up in front of Gliscor and many unboosted physical threats makes it so much easier to Shell Break and pass. Overall, it's got its problems too; mainly, faster Pokemon such as Scarved Rotom-W (It's pretty obvious when the opponent immediately switches in Rotom-W), and Ferrothorn. For Ferrothorn, that's why many run HP Fire to check it; Baton Pass Gorebyss' purpose is not to sweep, rather it is to support a sweeper, so eliminating Ferrothorn is very necessary to avoid Power Whip and Thunder Wave. Eliminating bulky Scizor is also good.

Overall, Gorebyss is a solid Pokemon in OU now, but I highly doubt it will be considered banned because it has casual checks to it.

In any case, Ferrothorn can make a great Baton Pass check by just Thunder Waving Gorebyss or the recipient, effectivley crippling it for the rest of the match. Should I run Lum Berry on a receiver or is that going overboard?

No, you have a point there. Many people try to switch in their status inducer in hopes of crippling one of my recipients, but Lum Berry is a very nasty surprise. I recommend using Lum Berry on at least one recipient to avoid a nasty surprise of their own, and use offensive items on your other recipients (if you have them). Dragonite and Salamence certainly appreciates Lum Berry more than they do a Life Orb because they can virtually 2HKO everything after a Shell Break boost.

 

[masterful]

Okay, so I've been testing out Gorebyss like everybody else said, and all I can say is this in a simple word: "It's AWESOME!!!111"

...Ahem, okay. So personally, I alternate between a Baton Pass set and an offensive version of that set. A team that I think is viable is a team with at LEAST one main recipient and a few "side-sweepers". I find that passing the boosts unintentionally to a "side sweeper" allows me to gain momentum and literally Shell Break walls until they can't take an assault from the main recipient. The strategy is flawed because Gorebyss can't always Shell Break twice, but it's gotten me far, actually. I also find that using White Herb Gorebyss offensively while giving it Baton Pass keeps the offensive momentum of my team healthy.

About Gorebyss, it actually has much physical bulk that it can actually check a few threats and not Shell Break. I've gotten in situations where an Excadrill or a Landuros in Sandstorm nearly breaks my team, and Gorebyss is always there to survive an unboosted Earthquake and get rid of it (even if Gorebyss been hurt by a few entry hazards). Gorebyss is virtually able to do at least something in the battlefield when it has the chance, in my experience.

The fact that Gorebyss can set up in front of Gliscor and many unboosted physical threats makes it so much easier to Shell Break and pass. Overall, it's got its problems too; mainly, faster Pokemon such as Scarved Rotom-W (It's pretty obvious when the opponent immediately switches in Rotom-W), and Ferrothorn. For Ferrothorn, that's why many run HP Fire to check it; Baton Pass Gorebyss' purpose is not to sweep, rather it is to support a sweeper, so eliminating Ferrothorn is very necessary to avoid Power Whip and Thunder Wave. Eliminating bulky Scizor is also good.

Overall, Gorebyss is a solid Pokemon in OU now, but I highly doubt it will be considered banned because it has casual checks to it.



No, you have a point there. Many people try to switch in their status inducer in hopes of crippling one of my recipients, but Lum Berry is a very nasty surprise. I recommend using Lum Berry on at least one recipient to avoid a nasty surprise of their own, and use offensive items on your other recipients (if you have them). Dragonite and Salamence certainly appreciates Lum Berry more than they do a Life Orb because they can virtually 2HKO everything after a Shell Break boost.

I would definitely agree with the use of Lum. When something is at +2/+2, you can easily run adamant, and the ability to avoid Thundurus or Erufuun T-wave/Stun Spore is invaluable for sweeping

 

[TLK]

I've modified my Gorebyss actually to have Substitute + 1 attack (surf) because of Ferrothorn. It loses coverage in favour of stopping Ferrothorn getting a T-Wave or Leech Seed on my recipient.

If my opponent goes to Ferrothorn on my Shell Smash, I use sub if I can next turn. If Ferrothorn goes for T-Wave or Leech Seed, then I can go to Zapdos to resist the Power Whip and sit behind a sub safely at +2 for everything. If they go for Power Whip on my sub, I just BP to Zapdos - if they leech seed then, then they've done a good job, but at least my Zapdos also carried Baton Pass so I can get out when my health is low.

Losing Ice Beam off Gorebyss isn't too bad, actually. Sure, I don't get to KO grass types after a Shell Smash, but my recipients (Latios and Zapdos) eat Grass types for breakfast, so it's not that big a deal. I also concur that Lum Berry is definitely one of the best items to use, although with my sub Gorebyss, Lum isn't as vital as before and I've gone back to LO.

Not broken though, just a really good strategy that everyone should be prepared for now.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Substitute actually doesn't sound bad. Although you seemingly play mind games with Ferrothorn all the time, it also prevents you from being immediately phased out by...Dragon Tail Gyarados. And other Dragon Tail users in general. You also safely pass a Substitute to your recipient or get off another Shell Break, if the conditions are correct. May test this sometime. On a side note, loving offensive DD Dragonite today.

 

[smashlloyd20]

Offensive DDNite is cool. The nice thing about it is that unless you have strong priority, even with no defensive EVs it's near impossible to OHKO at 100%. But with all the insanely fast Pokemon, weather, priority, TR Reuniclus, and other assorted crap the metagame is definitely not kind to it.

 

[capefeather]

I think that people are getting the wrong idea of what I'm doing because I'm posting largely raw data and experiences. Yes, sometimes if I continue to do this every time I get off the ladder, some posts will be useless and annoying, and that is why there won't be any more of these for the rest of the week. It makes it worse when I don't reveal ALL of what I'm doing, further lowering the number of battles that I seem to have done in comparison to the amount that I have actually done. The focus was always supposed to be on the comments as far as these posts went, which was why I didn't do all this in some kind of private journal. So I apologize for any inconvenience caused by some of my less helpful posts here resulting from this exercise. In my zeal to prove that I'm putting in the effort, it seems that I'm in danger of doing quite the opposite. I will instead give an overall look at my experiences, because that's what I'd been hoping that these would evolve into eventually.

My comments about Dragonite that got deleted stand. I've been testing a stall Dragonite team for a while, but there seems to be something wrong with it, and I can't get over the awkwardness of Dragonite being slow and Multi-Scale only mattering at 100% HP. Adding to this is that this set's main attack is a negative priority phazing move, and that Roost stalling for a paralysis turn skip is risky against many of the moves that it would want to stall out, namely stuff like Ice Beam. What have people been using to support this Dragonite? Is it even worth it?

The other team that I've been having severe problems with is my sun team. Sun just seems to be getting worse and worse each round, as there's less backward bending for the quirks of sun to take advantage of. All of the Chlorophyll Pokémon have serious issues; notably, most if not all of them have problems with Blissey. Even Venusaur seems not worth it. Is Blaziken the only real way to salvage sun?

I've definitely seen my share of Shell Smash Baton Pass now, and Substitute does seem like a decent idea. Substitute tends to be good against teams that have tenuous checks to the strategy, which comprises a surprising amount of counter-strategies to SSBP. However, I'm not sure that I want to use this strategy myself because of the huge risk factor and the fact that it's well-known by now. The ladder in general isn't as susceptible to runaway strategies as I would perhaps like.

 

[sxof]

BP SS Gorebyss is a poke I've been using ever since the start of round 2, so i do have some comments on it based on my experience with it.

- Nattorei switches in on Gorebyss *all* the time. The recipient must be able to take a Power Whip comfortably, as well as OHKO Natt.
- Porygon2 is also a common switch-in, so the recipient should also be able to take a Thunderbolt too. In my experience, T-bolt almost always paralizes your recipient (I don't know why, but it always happened in my battles), so Lum berry is a must. Lum's also essential if you don't want Voltlos paralizing you mid-sweep.
- Run Timid and enough speed to outpace stupid Voltlos, because Gorebyss can't take a T-bolt with its crappy sp.def.
- Also run enough sp.atk. to OHKO CB T-tar with Surf, because you don't want your recipient to take a boosted Stone Edge, and T-tar WILL switch in on you when they realize you're a BPer.
- Omitting Ice Beam is also a horrible idea, since I've often seen broken Latios switching in on me and DMing away.
- If you see Vaporeon on Team Preview, make sure you take it out b4 going for the Pass, because they often carry Roar.

In short, you should carry Surf/Ice Beam/Shell Smash/Batton Pass with a White Herb, while the recipient should be a Dragon-type with Lum and enough coverage to OHKO most walls. I had a Dragonite with Gale/Superpower/Extremespeed/DracoMeteor on my rain team, but then people started EVing their Nattoreis in sp.def. (and Gale wouldn't KO), while Scizor became more common, so i switched to Sazandora with DragonPulse/DarkPulse/Surf/FireBlast (+2 FB OHKOs Natt even in rain), with 184 def EVs to take a Roob Mach Punch (or a Dorry X-scizzor) followed by a Natt Power Whip and 5 turns of SS damage.

Running Sub doesn't help with anything, as nothing will try to Toxic or T-wave you (besides Chansey, which is fairly rare). Just have a Lum on the recipient. If you have LO, you'll be worn down quickly regardless, so it's not recommended.

 

[Zephyr]

Whats the exact date this round's laddering ends?

 

[smashlloyd20]

March 18, I think.

Anyways I feel the need to address a few thing this guys said.

BP SS Gorebyss is a poke I've been using ever since the start of round 2, so i do have some comments on it based on my experience with it.

- Nattorei switches in on Gorebyss *all* the time. The recipient must be able to take a Power Whip comfortably, as well as OHKO Natt.

Nattorei almost never uses Power Whip switching into Gorebyss. It's almost always Thunder Wave, which is why it's nice for a recipient to be able to shrug that off in some way.

- Porygon2 is also a common switch-in, so the recipient should also be able to take a Thunderbolt too. In my experience, T-bolt almost always paralizes your recipient (I don't know why, but it always happened in my battles), so Lum berry is a must. Lum's also essential if you don't want Voltlos paralizing you mid-sweep.

Don't make random assumptions based on hax. When a Voltlos comes in on Gorebyss, here's a tip: kill it with Ice Beam.

- Run Timid and enough speed to outpace stupid Voltlos, because Gorebyss can't take a T-bolt with its crappy sp.def.

Wh-what? I thought you just said it would be using T-Wave....

- Also run enough sp.atk. to OHKO CB T-tar with Surf, because you don't want your recipient to take a boosted Stone Edge, and T-tar WILL switch in on you when they realize you're a BPer.

First, nearly all Gorebyss are BPass anyway. Second, since when is the Stone Edge boosted? Third, Hydro Pump is far better as it KOs with something like 32 EVs of investment.

- Omitting Ice Beam is also a horrible idea, since I've often seen broken Latios switching in on me and DMing away.
- If you see Vaporeon on Team Preview, make sure you take it out b4 going for the Pass, because they often carry Roar.

Honestly, take out ANY phazers you can't KO before you pass.

In short, you should carry Surf/Ice Beam/Shell Smash/Batton Pass with a White Herb, while the recipient should be a Dragon-type with Lum and enough coverage to OHKO most walls. I had a Dragonite with Gale/Superpower/Extremespeed/DracoMeteor on my rain team, but then people started EVing their Nattoreis in sp.def. (and Gale wouldn't KO), while Scizor became more common, so i switched to Sazandora with DragonPulse/DarkPulse/Surf/FireBlast (+2 FB OHKOs Natt even in rain), with 184 def EVs to take a Roob Mach Punch (or a Dorry X-scizzor) followed by a Natt Power Whip and 5 turns of SS damage.

Hello....that's what nearly everybody uses anyway....

Running Sub doesn't help with anything, as nothing will try to Toxic or T-wave you (besides Chansey, which is fairly rare). Just have a Lum on the recipient. If you have LO, you'll be worn down quickly regardless, so it's not recommended.

LO is actually very helpful.

 

[alphatron]

Capfeather, if you don't want to be walled by Blissey, then use Tangrowth. And if you can actually afford to set up with him, victreebel.

 

[sxof]

@shmashlloyd: did you simply HAVE TO respond, although you had nothing to argue for? You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreement, you aren't making a point...

Nattorei almost never carries Thunder Wave. I don't know what set you've been using, or what you've been playing against, but Nattorei nearly always uses Power Whip vs. Gorebyss, and I still have at least 30 logs of battles where that has happened.

When a Voltlos comes in on Gorebyss, here's a tip: kill it with Ice Beam

I don't think i even need to elaborate on how stupid this sentence was in response to my claim that "you should run enough speed to outrun Voltlos at +2". Here's a tip: you need to outspeed to KO with Ice Beam, otherwise you'll be T-bolted.

since when is the Stone Edge boosted?

I clearly state "CB T-tar". So yeah, it's boosted from the Choice Band.

Honestly, take out ANY phazers you can't KO before you pass.

...there's no common phazer Gorebyss cannot KO other than Vaporeon. Do you even play this game?

Hello....that's what nearly everybody uses anyway....

This is the definition of trolling. It's a comment with no purpose other than to annoy your collocutor. If you don't plan on discussing, then refrain from posting at all. Don't provoke others for no reason. Pathetic.

LO is actually very helpful.

It allows you to get stalled by clever switching from your opponent, and there's nothing you cannot KO with a +2/+2/+2 Dragon anyways. Learn how to play the game first, then come here and try to be a smartass.

Btw, hope you remember this.

Hide

Battle between smashlloyd20 and sxof started!

Tier: Standard OU
Variation: +14, -17
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: Species Clause
Rule: Wifi Battle

sxof sent out Politoed!
smashlloyd20 sent out Rotom-W!
Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!

Start of turn 1
sxof called Politoed back!
sxof sent out Scizor!

The foe's Rotom-W used Thunderbolt!
Scizor lost 165 HP! (47% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 2
The foe's Rotom-W used Hydro Pump!
The attack of the foe's Rotom-W missed!

Scizor used Roost!
Scizor landed on the ground!
Scizor regained health!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 3
The foe's Rotom-W used Hydro Pump!
The attack of the foe's Rotom-W missed!

Scizor used Superpower!
The foe's Rotom-W lost 46% of its health!
Scizor's Attack fell!
Scizor's Defense fell!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Rotom-W restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 4
The foe's Rotom-W used Hydro Pump!
Scizor lost 292 HP! (84% of its health)

Scizor used U-turn!
The foe's Rotom-W lost 26% of its health!
sxof called Scizor back!
sxof sent out Kingdra!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Rotom-W restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
Kingdra used Surf!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Rotom-W lost 38% of its health!
The foe's Rotom-W fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
smashlloyd20 sent out Scizor!

Start of turn 6
Kingdra used Surf!
The foe's Scizor lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Scizor fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
smashlloyd20 sent out Tyranitar!

The foe's Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!

Start of turn 7
sxof called Kingdra back!
sxof sent out Politoed!

Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!
smashlloyd20 called Tyranitar back!
smashlloyd20 sent out Latios!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 8
sxof called Politoed back!
sxof sent out Gorebyss!

The foe's Latios used Calm Mind!
The foe's Latios's Sp. Att. rose!
The foe's Latios's Sp. Def. rose!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 9
The foe's Latios used Dragon Pulse!
Gorebyss lost 208 HP! (66% of its health)

Gorebyss used Shell Smash!
Gorebyss's Defense fell!
Gorebyss's Sp. Def. fell!
Gorebyss's Attack sharply rose!
Gorebyss's Sp. Att. sharply rose!
Gorebyss's Speed sharply rose!
Gorebyss restored its stats using white herb!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 10
Gorebyss used Ice Beam!
It's super effective!
The foe's Latios lost 67% of its health!

The foe's Latios used Dragon Pulse!
Gorebyss lost 106 HP! (33% of its health)
Gorebyss fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Latios restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
sxof sent out Scizor!

Start of turn 11
smashlloyd20 called Latios back!
smashlloyd20 sent out Gliscor!

Scizor used Bullet Punch!
The foe's Gliscor lost 17% of its health!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Gliscor's Toxic Orb activated!
The foe's Gliscor was poisoned!

Start of turn 12
sxof called Scizor back!
sxof sent out Dragonite!

The foe's Gliscor used Earthquake!
It had no effect!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Gliscor restored HP using its Poison Heal!

Start of turn 13
Dragonite used Draco Meteor!
The foe's Gliscor lost 83% of its health!
Dragonite's Sp. Att. sharply fell!

The foe's Gliscor used Facade!
Dragonite lost 106 HP! (32% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Gliscor restored HP using its Poison Heal!

Start of turn 14
smashlloyd20 called Gliscor back!
smashlloyd20 sent out Tyranitar!

The foe's Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
Dragonite used Draco Meteor!
The foe's Tyranitar lost 15% of its health!
Dragonite's Sp. Att. sharply fell!

The sandstorm rages!
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Tyranitar restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 15
Dragonite used Superpower!
It's super effective!
The foe's Tyranitar lost 90% of its health!
Dragonite's Attack fell!
Dragonite's Defense fell!
The foe's Tyranitar fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
smashlloyd20 sent out Terakion!

Start of turn 16
The foe's Terakion used Stone Edge!
It's super effective!
Dragonite lost 177 HP! (54% of its health)
Dragonite fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
sxof sent out Politoed!

Politoed's Drizzle made it rain!

Start of turn 17
The foe's Terakion used Stone Edge!
A critical hit!
Politoed lost 333 HP! (86% of its health)

Politoed used Boil Over!
It's super effective!
The foe's Terakion lost 92% of its health!

Rain continues to fall!

Start of turn 18
The foe's Terakion used Stone Edge!
A critical hit!
Politoed lost 51 HP! (13% of its health)
Politoed fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
sxof sent out Toxicroak!

Start of turn 19
smashlloyd20 called Terakion back!
smashlloyd20 sent out Latios!

Toxicroak used Nasty Plot!
Toxicroak's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

Rain continues to fall!
Toxicroak restored HP using its Dry Skin!
The foe's Latios restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 20
The foe's Latios used Psycho Shock!
It's super effective!
Toxicroak lost 370 HP! (100% of its health)
Toxicroak fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Latios restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
sxof sent out Scizor!

Start of turn 21
Scizor used Bullet Punch!
The foe's Latios lost 40% of its health!

The foe's Latios used Surf!
Scizor lost 52 HP! (15% of its health)
Scizor fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Latios restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
sxof sent out Kingdra!

Start of turn 22
Kingdra used Surf!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Latios lost 15% of its health!
The foe's Latios fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
smashlloyd20 sent out Terakion!

Start of turn 23
Kingdra used Surf!
It's super effective!
The foe's Terakion lost 7% of its health!
The foe's Terakion fainted!

Rain continues to fall!
smashlloyd20 sent out Gliscor!

Start of turn 24
Kingdra used Surf!
It's super effective!
The foe's Gliscor lost 23% of its health!
The foe's Gliscor fainted!

sxof won the battle!
sxof: gg
smashlloyd20: gg

And this was b4 i improved my team...

 

[Thorhammer]

There are a few phasers besides Vaporeon that can stop Gorebyss. I personally use Empoleon; while defense is a bit of an unusual role for it, it was already working great for my team before anyone was using Shell Break Gorebyss.

Suicune can also stop Vaporeon, perhaps even more effectively than either Vaporeon or Empoleon, but its usage seems to have dropped by quite a bit in this generation.

 

[sxof]

All water-types with Roar/Haze can deal with Gorebyss, but Vaporeon is the only one with above 1-2% usage. Dragon Tail Gyarados can also phaze, but DT's a rare move on him anyways (most are offensive DD).

So yeah, the only phazer that can stop Gorebyss in OU is Vaporeon. The rest are in UU (not officially, but you get my point)

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Considering how threatening Borutorosu is to basically every team that isn't mono-Electric, you probably should make it a point to outspeed that lol. With Screens up there's really no difference in where you put your non-HP EVs anyways.

P.S. Sun teams are extremely very effective if you know how to use it correctly capefeather, but then again that holds true for all kinds of team. Though I do have multiple nicks in top10 to prove this one though!

 

[masterful]

All water-types with Roar/Haze can deal with Gorebyss, but Vaporeon is the only one with above 1-2% usage. Dragon Tail Gyarados can also phaze, but DT's a rare move on him anyways (most are offensive DD).

Usage is completely irrelevant to usefulness or quality. Need I remind you that Latios was UU for quite some time on the PO Beta server? And DT Gyara can also use Roar is it want's to be able to phaze through subs

 

[sxof]

Regardless, you don't prepare your team for low-usage pokes. Suicune in OU last gen used HP electric for Gyarados, not HP Grass for Quagsire - although Quagsire is very useful in OU.

In short, a Gorebyss user would prepare for Roar Vaporeon, not Roar Empoleon (by preparing for the first you most likely prepare for the other too, but i just emphasize on the teambuilding proccess, which has a "checklist" involved, and Vappy is within that checklist, while Empoleon isn't)

 

[Thorhammer]

Regardless, you don't prepare your team for low-usage pokes. Suicune in OU last gen used HP electric for Gyarados, not HP Grass for Quagsire - although Quagsire is very useful in OU.

In short, a Gorebyss user would prepare for Roar Vaporeon, not Roar Empoleon (by preparing for the first you most likely prepare for the other too, but i just emphasize on the teambealding proccess, which has a "checklist" involved)

Empoleon is less common, but it's by no means low-usage. Even Suicune has more of a presence in Gen 5 OU right now than some of the best Gen 4 UUs had in Gen 4 OU. Based on the teams I've seen, it's at least borderline OU. When a Pokemon that's used that much is such a threat to a core strategy of your team, it can't be ignored.

Now, it's true that preparing for Vaporeon is more of a priority right now than preparing for Empoleon, and certainly Suicune. But I'm not arguing priorities, and I'm not arguing team construction. I'm arguing that there are phasers other than Vaporeon that matter in OU and are capable of shutting down the setup of a Gorebyss with the set you proposed, and therefore they must also be considered if they are seen in the team preview screen.

That is to say, I'm arguing with this statement you made:

...there's no phazer Gorebyss cannot KO other than Vaporeon. Do you even play this game?

If you're going to retract that statement and change your stance, say so rather than trying to pretend you were arguing something else. If you're willing to do so, I think we're done here - for more than one reason.

 

[sxof]

Sure, i'll retract the statement, since you absolutely need to be pointlessly nitpicky. Nearly every pokemon in the game gets the move Roar, so w/e. And Suicune isn't borderline OU. I've personally never seen it, and i've had a lot of battles. Or it could be on every other battle i didn't play. Suit yourself.

There's no COMMON phaser Gorebyss cannot KO other than Vaporeon. Happy now?

 

[masterful]

Regardless, you don't prepare your team for low-usage pokes. Suicune in OU last gen used HP electric for Gyarados, not HP Grass for Quagsire - although Quagsire is very useful in OU.

In short, a Gorebyss user would prepare for Roar Vaporeon, not Roar Empoleon (by preparing for the first you most likely prepare for the other too, but i just emphasize on the teambuilding proccess, which has a "checklist" involved, and Vappy is within that checklist, while Empoleon isn't)

Suicune last gen had Surf/Hydro Pump, which hits Quag for neutral, that analogy doesn't work. And preparing for one is pretty much preparing for the other, like you said

 

[Mario With Lasers]

Suicune last gen had Surf/Hydro Pump, which hits Quag for neutral, that analogy doesn't work.

Last gen every single Quagsire used Water Absorb.

 

[smashlloyd20]

@shmashlloyd: did you simply HAVE TO respond, although you had nothing to argue for? You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreement, you aren't making a point...

Nattorei almost never carries Thunder Wave. I don't know what set you've been using, or what you've been playing against, but Nattorei nearly always uses Power Whip vs. Gorebyss, and I still have at least 30 logs of battles where that has happened.


I don't think i even need to elaborate on how stupid this sentence was in response to my claim that "you should run enough speed to outrun Voltlos at +2". Here's a tip: you need to outspeed to KO with Ice Beam, otherwise you'll be T-bolted.

I clearly state "CB T-tar". So yeah, it's boosted from the Choice Band.

...there's no common phazer Gorebyss cannot KO other than Vaporeon. Do you even play this game?

This is the definition of trolling. It's a comment with no purpose other than to annoy your collocutor. If you don't plan on discussing, then refrain from posting at all. Don't provoke others for no reason. Pathetic.

It allows you to get stalled by clever switching from your opponent, and there's nothing you cannot KO with a +2/+2/+2 Dragon anyways. Learn how to play the game first, then come here and try to be a smartass.

Btw, hope you remember this.

(log)

And this was b4 i improved my team...

Okay, I'm going to attempt to respond to this in a civil manner.

Firstly, T-Wave is an extraordinarily common move on Nattorei. All but 1 Natt I've seen when using Gorebyss paralyzed me (which totally fucked me over).

Second, perhaps you should run enough EV's to do both. Problem solved.

Forgive me for missing two letters of your insightful post, my great lord *frantic bow*

Eh.....no. It can't OHKO Specially Defensive Skarm, Swampert, and other stuff. Vappy is just very problematic.

And forgive me for wanting to OHKO boosted walls. It happens.

Also, the log is from an extraordinarily beta version of the team.

And you're going to tell someone who peaked at 1330 during round 2 to learn how to play the game? Yeah...good luck with that.

 

[sxof]

Okay, I'm going to attempt to respond to this in a civil manner.

Thank you for this.

Hide

Start of turn 8
sxof called Ludicolo back!
sxof sent out Gorebyss!

The foe's Gyarados used Stone Edge!
Gorebyss lost 107 HP! (42% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Gyarados restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 9
Lady bug called Gyarados back!
Lady bug sent out Nattorei!

Gorebyss used Shell Smash!
Gorebyss's Defense fell!
Gorebyss's Sp. Def. fell!
Gorebyss's Attack sharply rose!
Gorebyss's Sp. Att. sharply rose!
Gorebyss's Speed sharply rose!
Gorebyss restored its stats using white herb!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 10
Gorebyss used Baton Pass!
sxof called Gorebyss back!
sxof sent out Dragonite!

The foe's Nattorei used Power Whip!
It's not very effective...
Dragonite lost 37 HP! (11% of its health)

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Hide

Start of turn 13
sxof called Scizor back!
sxof sent out Gorebyss!
Pointed stones dug into Gorebyss!

The foe's Nattorei used Protect!
But it failed!

The sandstorm rages!
Gorebyss is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 14
Gorebyss used Shell Smash!
Gorebyss's Defense fell!
Gorebyss's Sp. Def. fell!
Gorebyss's Attack sharply rose!
Gorebyss's Sp. Att. sharply rose!
Gorebyss's Speed sharply rose!
Gorebyss restored its stats using white herb!

The foe's Nattorei used Power Whip!
It's super effective!
Gorebyss lost 224 HP! (71% of its health)

The sandstorm rages!
Gorebyss is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 15
The foe's Nattorei used Protect!
The foe's Nattorei protected itself!

Gorebyss used Baton Pass!
sxof called Gorebyss back!
sxof sent out Dragonite!
Pointed stones dug into Dragonite!

The sandstorm rages!
Dragonite is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Hide

Sunshade called Donphan back!
Sunshade sent out Nattorei!

Gorebyss used Shell Smash!
Gorebyss's Defense fell!
Gorebyss's Sp. Def. fell!
Gorebyss's Attack sharply rose!
Gorebyss's Sp. Att. sharply rose!
Gorebyss's Speed sharply rose!
Gorebyss restored its stats using white herb!

Rain continues to fall!
The foe's Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 8
Gorebyss used Baton Pass!
faf stopped watching the battle.
sxof called Gorebyss back!
sxof sent out Dragonite!

The foe's Nattorei used Power Whip!
It's not very effective...
Dragonite lost 34 HP! (10% of its health)

These are just three logs of Nattorei Power Whipping Gorebyss. I can provide more, since this is what most Natts do when faced vs. Gorebyss, but i feel this is unneccessary. I also remember once when I got Leech Seeded instead, but Leech Seed doesn't activate if you KO the opponent, so this shouldn't affect the recipient. To be frank, Sub is unneccessary.

Second, perhaps you should run enough EV's to do both. Problem solved

...which is excactly what i suggested and you disagreed with.

Eh.....no. It can't OHKO Specially Defensive Skarm, Swampert, and other stuff. Vappy is just very problematic

It can. Be it with rain support, or additional sp.atk. EVs, +2 Gorebyss can KO both of these pokes with its Water STAB.

Oh yeah, and i peaked at 1351 on r2. Just for the record.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

I can't say which kind of Ferrathorn I come across more often... Alot of times lately it seems to be the protect/leechseed/hazard/powerwhip builds... but every once in awhile I am hit with a t-wave or a gyroball. But generally, its a leechseed/protect build.


I honestly don't know whats more common, but I tend to not see as many thunderwaves as I used to. I am sure that if the Ferathorn was RUNNING t-wave, it would love to do that more than try to powerwhip, but I just don't see it often.

 

[bread]

All this talk of Gorebyss made me curious. A GREAT recipient for the baton pass no one really mentioned that I found is Nidoking. Reasonably bulky, resists fighting priority, immune to toxic and t-wave which can free it up to use an item other than lum berry, and awesome coverage on both the physical and special side. Also loves to come in on directed electric attacks on Gorebyss.

 

[alphatron]

Nidoking is a great baton pass recipient, yes.

Since I don't actually play ubers, I have a question. Is Sacred Fire the only thing keeping Ho-oh in ubers (let's ignore regeneration for now since it's unreleased)? When thinking about it, he doesn't hit any harder than Garchomp does. Sacred Fire is as strong as Garchomp's earthquake. Brave Bird is as strong as Garchomp's outrage. Garchomp is faster than Ho-oh, has a better offensive typing, and has the means to actually boost his typing. Garchomp's dual STAB actually help him get past what would normally resist him, while Ho-oh's dual STAB is somewhat redundant. Fire and flying are both SE on bug and grass, while both are resisted by rock. While Ferrothorn/Nattorei would NEVER switch into Ho-oh, he loses around 48-56% from adamant choice band brave bird. Rotom-W 3HKO'd by the same brave bird, which is Ho-oh's strongest attack. A rotom-W with no offensive investment can land a solid 2HKO on max hp Ho-oh with hydro pump. Theorymonning here, but Choice Band Ho-oh would have the same switching issues as Choice Specs Latios, with pokes taking advantage of whatever move he's locked into, switching in and setting up. Ho-oh's base 90 speed would not be too kind to him either, nor would the SS residual damage and Stealth rock damage he would have to dodge around. Base 90 defense does not matter either when his typing is far from defensively admirable.

Then again, unlike Garchomp, Ho-oh has access to two forms of reliable recovery (like Latios) and a way to boost his speed. While his typing may not work for it, he's also much bulkier than Garchomp on the special side and can could possibly get away with actually using a calm mind set if he were in standard. I also don't play ubers so I may be missing something obvious here. But still, what is it that pushes him over the edge, while the likes of Garchomp and Latios are A-ok?