Except you're completely wrong. Stealth Rock isn't that over-centralizing, while Sandstorm requires you to either run weather or Conkeldurr. Venusaur in Sun has even less counters. Thundurus says a massive "screw you" to counters and uses priority Thunder Wave.
Colkeldurr is a good Pokémon, and weather is a complete playstyle. Rapid Spin is...? That anyone who wants to use a Rock weak Pokémon should be expected to waste two turns and a moveslot that does NOTHING ELSE every time rocks are laid getting rid of them is absurd.
We're not very ban-happy. All the bans we've done have a lot of reason in them. God, you sound like a Gamefaqs user.
The entirety of gens 1 through 4 saw a grand total of TWO non-legendary Pokémon banned, and no abilities, and no moves past the original five (six). In 5th gen, you've now got your third non-legendary on the chopping block (along with a standard legendary), a hard ban on one ability and a "complex" ban on two more, with a worryingly large number of further abilities waiting in the wings. And I don't have the words to describe how far back in my head my eyes rolled when someone decided it was a good time to dick around with Baton Pass in gen 3, six or seven years after the fact. Bans are accelerating, each (other than Chomp) more nonsensical than the last.
This paragraph is complete bullshit. Moody creates a 1/7 chance in winning (raising Evasion). What happens if I run two Moody Pokemo? Or three? Heck, just having a 1/7 chance of winning is way too much. Look at what we did to OHK moves.
A +2 in evasion is winning now?
You switch in Octillery, I hit it, and it dies. In comes Glalie.
Let's jump back a post for a bit.
And no, the -1 never matters because their stats are initially so low that the drop doesn't actually change anything, and if they get it in an important stat, they just switch out.
What is your opponent doing while you are constantly switching and very obviously going to spam Protect and Sub? Do all these Moody Pokémon have leftovers? You switch in [awful Pokémon here] after a death and I'm going to go straight for a sub/booster of my own, for starters, and then it's a race- only my guy isn't drunk at the wheel. Switch out of my Volcarona, Raikou or Thundurus and now I've got a sub. Will Protect/Sub and Lefties last forever? Can Smeargle, Bibarel, Octillery or Glalie get perfect coverage with two attacks, even if they do survive that long?
I'd like to point out that Smeargle's attack stats after +6, assuming full EVs and +nature, is 608. Metagross reaches that after one Hone Claws. Lots more dudes beat the hell out of that with one turn.
And as for the possible Evasion bonuses, three of the four users happen to be weak to Aura Sphere, and none of them like Thunder in the rain. Rock Blast and other multi-hit moves will make mincemeat out of anything that tries to sub, as will Roar/Whirlwind. Worry Seed exists, and there's always Role Play/Trace/Psych Up/Entrainment/Feint to fill out the 'reaching' quota. Your Bibarel Protects (or Subs) as I switch in Skarmory. Is Moody gonna stop me from Spikes and then Whirlwind? Pseudo-hazers aren't out of fashion, are they?
Of course, there will be times when the stars align and you get exactly what you need, when you need it, and enough of the enemy team is dead to ensure no remaining counters. I simply can't imagine this "strategy" being consistent enough to be viable. Are we actually concerned that if Moody was unbanned, that people would try to use it? I'm certain that after a brief novelty phase, the number of times it leads to a crashing defeat will dissuade usage even considering the occasional laughable victory.
You're a hypocrite. First you want simple bans, now you want complex ones. The point with banning all of Blaziken was to prevent slippery slopes. If we just banned Speed Boost, what's to say we just ban Dark Void from Darkrai? Or Draco Meteor from Rayquaza? Or Earthquake for Garchomp?
Not at all. First, I don't want simple bans, I simply want less bans. And second, my argument here is that how we have defined "simple" and "complex" bans is flawed, and that the end result is that the "complex" Speed Boost Blaziken ban is less confusing than the "simple" Blaze/Speed Boost Blaziken ban. Banning Blaze Blaziken makes absolutely 0 sense- you cannot explain it or argue for it without appealing to the "definition" of simple and complex bans- and we should not be content with a system that allows for completely unrelated Pokémon from being removed from play for reasons of convenience for policy makers.
Note that all three of your counter-examples are attacks, and not abilities. Blaze Blaziken CANNOT have Speed Boost under any circumstances (and the inverse is also true). Any Darkrai can forget or relearn Dark Void; Blaziken's ability is set when it is created and cannot be changed. Note also that Rough Skin Garchomp cannot have Sand Veil, which is another problem waiting to happen with the current ban definition system. [As for Unnerve Garchomp, I'm sure someone else said that earlier in the thread, but in the end it's not the point.] Appealing to wanting to prevent complex bans is kind of foolish now that we already have one.
If all weather is broken, then ban them. Simple as that. Is there a problem with banning all weather?
Kind of sort of, in that it's a very substantial part of the game. I don't enjoy the thought of anyone wanting to build a team around weather (there are several different kinds, plus mixes and anti-styles to consider) being forced out of standard and into uber. This is why I think the best solution is to make Standard Weather and Standard Non-Weather.
Except that Excadrill isn't as centralizing as you say. It can be stopped by changing the weather and priority. It's not getting banned. There have been five rounds with it being nominated nd it still isn't banned.
I would have thought Drizzle+Swift Swim got stopped by changing the weather too. But at any rate, I don't care if Excadrill is banned or not; there are some excellent arguments for and against it. I am more concerned with so much banning and ban discussion in a metagame that will change constantly for its duration as more DW abilities are released (among other changes that are surely incoming). First and foremost, something needs to be done about the most definitely not broken Blaze Blaziken being banned, and the probably not quite so terrible Rough Skin Garchomp being auto-banned upon release. These are like Game Freak banning Phione from Battle Tower, plain and simple.
while i agree stealth rock does centralize the crap out of every single tier (even more than weather does in ou by far) people have ajusted and really odn't take much notice of its effects anymore as they have become so common place i don't see it getting a ban.
So why not wait for people to adjust to constant Rain vs Sand? Leaving Stealth Rock alone because "it's always been there" is not much of an argument. Tradition is no excuse.
~Uiru
