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League of Legends: Let's Talk About uhhh??
- Thread starter Thorns
- Start date
That's such a bland build though. Manamune allows for great harassment without worrying about running out of mana early to mid game. Late game too, unless you want to sell it later on, which would probably happen. Personally, it's been way more useful for me than a Ghostblase. And Manamune allows for easy kiting. But I figured someone would immediately shoot down what I said, so no worries.
Just fyi, there is usually a reason why these things are "standard": because they have been tested numerous times and proven to be the most successful. It certainly is not impossible to do well with another build, but overall the build that gene suggested is the most consistently powerful. LoL is not a balanced game, certain items/strategies are dominant (in the logical sense of the word, i.e. there is no reason to pick the other) over others, and it would be the crowning achievement of competitive game design if there existed a game that did not have this problem (*coughmagicthegatheringcough*).
Pantheon is always a champ I have had mana problems with, so Manamune does sound attractive, but Manamune also kinda sounds suboptimal because you get the most out of the AD bonus on Manamune with champs who already have a ton of mana. It does sound like an interesting enough item to at least TRY though.
EDIT: You know you have early game mana problems when an approved Solomid guide has a mana pot start, just saying.
EDIT 2: that specific guide was from before the gunblade nerf btw.
EDIT: You know you have early game mana problems when an approved Solomid guide has a mana pot start, just saying.
EDIT 2: that specific guide was from before the gunblade nerf btw.
@theamerican: yes, I do understand why standard builds exist. I'm not knocking them either, and I do use standard builds on many champs. In this scenario, however, I was merely thinking of a different way to use Pantheon. I saw that his AD ratio for his q was excellent, and on a short cd. However, he has very little mana. I really wanted to find a way to use the potential of his abilities without sacrificing power, so I decided upon Manamune. With cdr boots, he can easily spam his q, effectively giving him a ton of consistent range. The normal Pantheon, early game, may not spam his q as much, because he may not be able to combo out if he does so. With Manamune, you can peacefully farm while punishing enemies intent on last hitting. Due to the high ratio on q, they can only approach so many times before they're low on health. And if they continue, you can q -> w -> e -> q to either slay them or make them run, further denying them CS. And if you lane with any champ with range or a zoning ability, you can keep your enemies away for a while. And because you harass with everything to keep your passive up, you'll have a fair amount of mana quickly. To get the most out of it, you can use the mastery that boosts your mana by up to 5.00% of your maximum mana, making your harass method even easier. I know it isn't the way most people go with Pantheon, but it DOES work if the intent is to sting them constantly. Nor am I trying to be an asshole; I'm aware that I proposed something unorthodox, and I know it isn't what moost people would do, but attempting to troll because I don't necessarily want to follow a standard build is just silly.
@dvm: I know it isn't the greatest of items on him, but it does work well enough, if only up to mid game. People like Urgot make better use of it, but it's not like I'm saying we should rush a Deathcap on him, lol.
Also, thank you both for your actual responses. And I genuinely mean that.
@dvm: I know it isn't the greatest of items on him, but it does work well enough, if only up to mid game. People like Urgot make better use of it, but it's not like I'm saying we should rush a Deathcap on him, lol.
Also, thank you both for your actual responses. And I genuinely mean that.
Whoah, I just had a game where I (Ashe) laned with Janna. We CV'ed/Hawk Shot the exact same area at the exact same time twice.
Uh...*points to Synre*.
It's either trolling or being an outright douche. Your 1st comment wasn't a troll one, you were just suggesting the standard build. Your 2nd one was a bit trollish, because you're well aware of how horrible stacking Zeals would be (couldn't even suggest stacking PDs). And you're continuing along your path, so I'll move on past such silly things.
I tried out Pantheon again in yet another one-sided match, lol. We had Udyr jungling, and Graves started raging before the match started, forcing ANNIE to solo top while Graves went mid. I was with Lee Sin on bot. Udyr got killed a couple of times by Garen, who kept searching the jungle for him.....and then Udyr left. Annie had no AP runes and kept getting slaughtered by Kass and Garen, while I was doing my usual strategy with LS against Trist and WW. Graves died to Fiddle in mid a lot too. We lost (held our base well for a while, but then I died and they pushed), and I went 12/5/2. Had Manamune/cd boots/TF/ Pickaxe/BF Sword. And it did well. It's probably (definitely) not the optimal strategy, but it worked pretty well.
It's either trolling or being an outright douche. Your 1st comment wasn't a troll one, you were just suggesting the standard build. Your 2nd one was a bit trollish, because you're well aware of how horrible stacking Zeals would be (couldn't even suggest stacking PDs). And you're continuing along your path, so I'll move on past such silly things.
I tried out Pantheon again in yet another one-sided match, lol. We had Udyr jungling, and Graves started raging before the match started, forcing ANNIE to solo top while Graves went mid. I was with Lee Sin on bot. Udyr got killed a couple of times by Garen, who kept searching the jungle for him.....and then Udyr left. Annie had no AP runes and kept getting slaughtered by Kass and Garen, while I was doing my usual strategy with LS against Trist and WW. Graves died to Fiddle in mid a lot too. We lost (held our base well for a while, but then I died and they pushed), and I went 12/5/2. Had Manamune/cd boots/TF/ Pickaxe/BF Sword. And it did well. It's probably (definitely) not the optimal strategy, but it worked pretty well.
Ok some protips:
1) You should probably stop being insufferable before I edit your posts into pictures of Trundle
2) The "troll" posts were pretty obviously sarcastic because the logic behind your build was horrible. There's a reason what you're using isn't standard or used by anyone: it's because it the build is incredibly suboptimal. A build being "different" doesn't make it "viable." You can win occasionally with a lot of stupid stuff in this game just like most others, but that doesn't make it a good idea. I'm sorry your attempts at being a special snowflake weren't particularly well received.
3) Your other posts in this thread lead me to believe that A) You probably still aren't level 30 and at the very least you weren't 3 weeks ago and B) Judging by your comments on heroes such as Taric you have no idea what you are doing. I imagine this all ties in to the slanted perspective in your posts.
1) You should probably stop being insufferable before I edit your posts into pictures of Trundle
2) The "troll" posts were pretty obviously sarcastic because the logic behind your build was horrible. There's a reason what you're using isn't standard or used by anyone: it's because it the build is incredibly suboptimal. A build being "different" doesn't make it "viable." You can win occasionally with a lot of stupid stuff in this game just like most others, but that doesn't make it a good idea. I'm sorry your attempts at being a special snowflake weren't particularly well received.
3) Your other posts in this thread lead me to believe that A) You probably still aren't level 30 and at the very least you weren't 3 weeks ago and B) Judging by your comments on heroes such as Taric you have no idea what you are doing. I imagine this all ties in to the slanted perspective in your posts.
In other news, I may have to resign with Pantheon for a bit. It seems I am a master with him...a master of kill stealing, that is. :( happens too often, maybe because I get greedy and chuck spears everywhere.
Speaking of pointy weapons, has anyone seen the artwork/read about the mechanics of Fizz? Seems he's getting some sort of move that makes him unable to be targeted for some period of time (with some sort of follow-up attack too). And get this: he's an assassin. How do you guys feel about New Stitch?
Speaking of pointy weapons, has anyone seen the artwork/read about the mechanics of Fizz? Seems he's getting some sort of move that makes him unable to be targeted for some period of time (with some sort of follow-up attack too). And get this: he's an assassin. How do you guys feel about New Stitch?
Oh boy, it's a smogon forum so you know we gotta be sticklers for the standard builds.
Cordyceps you can feel free to build Pantheon in a variety of ways, but I've played enough Pantheon to know that you can harass like crazy with Q and never have mana problems. Just don't use it every time it is off CD.
EDIT: But CDR is seriously the tits on Panth, you should look into it.
Cordyceps you can feel free to build Pantheon in a variety of ways, but I've played enough Pantheon to know that you can harass like crazy with Q and never have mana problems. Just don't use it every time it is off CD.
EDIT: But CDR is seriously the tits on Panth, you should look into it.
I'm really starting to like Veigar, especially skillshotting with W, but is he worth playing in solo queue? It seems like he loses to a lot of champs and has a weak early game. I don't play ranked or even super competitively, but I'd like some input on how viable he is.
Veigar either gets his level six kill against his laning opponent and goes on to carry the game because from that point on he can pretty much kill the opposing AP carry at will, or he doesn't get his level six kill against his laning opponent, likely dies in retaliation, and does absolutely nothing for the remainder of the game.
In solo queue it's pretty easy to get that lvl 6 kill against the opposing mid though - I like him a lot in solo queue, actually.
In solo queue it's pretty easy to get that lvl 6 kill against the opposing mid though - I like him a lot in solo queue, actually.
Pantheon does have rather low base mana (hence the mana problems) but most of your bonus AD is obviously going to come from the 1350 maximum of mana the item itself grants you. It's a good item, probably worthy of being used more than it is, but there are still constraints that make it a limited item in general: Your champion needs to be able to build a Tear efficiently (not Caitlyn) and they need to be mana-hungry enough for the sustain to be a big deal (not Gangplank despite it being an lolrecommended item). It also doesn't do much to make you immediately stronger but I think that's less important than some people let on. Early Tear is only sacrificing a Pickaxe (or more likely two Doran's) and Manamune ultimately doesn't "delay" your IE and friends much more than a strong mid-game item (Hexdrinker, Wit's End, etc.) or Doran stacking does.
Unlike my fellow #carlsucks denizens, I like to think outside the box. Actually, I just like to obsessively analyze and theorize about god damn every game I really get into but whatever, same difference. The math supports Manamune, it's just a matter of buying it on the right champions (that meet the above two criteria) and Pantheon is probably one of those champions. Why not rush it and then you can (and should!) spam Q on cooldown, vonFiedler? :P I mean, Yorick could just not spam ghouls all over the damn place and then he wouldn't need a Manamune either, except the ad nauseam ghoul spam powered by the ridiculous mana reserves of a building Tear is exactly what makes him dominant in the lane.
CDR is tits on almost everyone, more people really should itemize it. Even AP mids should, seeing as how blue only has 65% uptime even if you always get it on timer and never die with it. ;/ (And have 2/2 Utility Mastery!) Even most right-clickers get noticeable gains from CDR, especially when it comes to CC (Irelia's slow/stun, Nocturne's fear, Xin's knockup). A lot of melee champions are happy to get CDR from Youmuu's but even some of the ranged champions that are apt to not buy that item would love to get it wherever they can: Kog gets greater uptime on his W, Teemo greater uptime on his blind, Vayne can re-Tumble back into stealth more quickly.
Yeah, I never think outside the box in spite of recently pimping an Atmog's Leona, or my refusal to believe that Miss Fortune is outclassed, or, y'know, having just berated people for the smog typical "let's be standard" mentality.
But I DO main two champs that use Manamune, and it's a shitty item. Hell, I'm even experimenting with Manamune Graves! Turns out he's broken enough that he can be awesome with only AD and mana. Pantheon isn't. Panth is melee and needs some defense. Panth does most of his damage through abilities and wants CDR. There are a variety of ways to achieve these things. Manamune isn't one of them, and it won't let you spam in lane which is when Q can easily drop opponents down to 25% HP without ever running out of mana. Pantheon's Q never costs more than 45 Mana. Easily conserved in lane, and when you level up and gain more mana you can use it all you want in fights. Panth does not have mana problems, players do.
this, the reason why clarity exists
if you run out of mana with anybody without hideously outdated mana costs/uses mana as a key resource (ryze urgot) then you should review how you utilise your spells in the lane
Every time I talk about a Tear or its related items, a firefight breaks out...I use the Expanded Mind mastery with Pantheon, and Manamune mixes well with it (mastery is there for the item, not the other way around). It's pretty nice; once I get it, I can use my e to gain 5 mana. Idk why it works like that, but it does. And I chain spells and attacks well enough together that it goes up pretty darn fast. I know Pantheon's squishy, so instead of focusing on making him a bit more defensive, I build into Manamune to harass enough so that enemies don't get near me. Yes, I know it won't always work, but it's nice enough. It allows me to not have to play conservatively with my spells, and I throw spears at anything remotely close, lol. This allows me to kind of replace my autoattack with my q, making me a pseudo-ranged champ.
To be fair, I haven't really tried to be conservative with Pantheon's mana, or use a different build, so I'm not here to knock what works, and if you say that Panth doesn't have mana problems, vonFielder, then I will take your word for it. I personally happen to like being aggressive/spammy with Pantheon's abilities, so I decided to build an item that let me does that without sacrificing AD. It keeps me out of the direct fray with most champs, helps me stop CS, etc. I even spam my abilities to farm from time to time (no worries, I never find myself regretting that, what with my CDR). I do get the CDR boots, but sadly most games don't last long enough for me to build more CDR, as I usually end up with Manamune/CDR boots/TF/the pieces to IE, and the game is over. I've thought about either Ghostblade (ArPen is nice, as is the extra everything else) or Frozen Heart (the armor Panth desires, in addition to more AD through Manamune, and a nice passive, as well as enough CDR to bring me to a comfy 38%), but again, I never get that far.
I admit that I just really like the Tear items, even if they aren't suited for every champ, so there's definitely bias on my end. It just doesn't seem as bad as it's being portrayed as, especially if it is my goal to spam q as often as possible.
To be fair, I haven't really tried to be conservative with Pantheon's mana, or use a different build, so I'm not here to knock what works, and if you say that Panth doesn't have mana problems, vonFielder, then I will take your word for it. I personally happen to like being aggressive/spammy with Pantheon's abilities, so I decided to build an item that let me does that without sacrificing AD. It keeps me out of the direct fray with most champs, helps me stop CS, etc. I even spam my abilities to farm from time to time (no worries, I never find myself regretting that, what with my CDR). I do get the CDR boots, but sadly most games don't last long enough for me to build more CDR, as I usually end up with Manamune/CDR boots/TF/the pieces to IE, and the game is over. I've thought about either Ghostblade (ArPen is nice, as is the extra everything else) or Frozen Heart (the armor Panth desires, in addition to more AD through Manamune, and a nice passive, as well as enough CDR to bring me to a comfy 38%), but again, I never get that far.
I admit that I just really like the Tear items, even if they aren't suited for every champ, so there's definitely bias on my end. It just doesn't seem as bad as it's being portrayed as, especially if it is my goal to spam q as often as possible.
jeez haven't we had this conversation before
tear is good on about 5-6 champions
ryze, urgot, yorick, and occasionally blitzcrank/corki but not always.
that's a debate for another time though. the issue at hand is pantheon.
pantheon is one of the most aggressive early game AD champions in the game. he always has been. that's why a tear start is suboptimal because you're sacrificing a lot of early game potential for a stronger mid-game and late-game - only problem is this: pantheon's mid/late game is SHIT compared to many other stronger-scaling AD champions like Yorick.
this is the reason why you never see a Garen rush straight for his mallet/atma's combo - he always stacks Doran's and maybe gets a Brutalizer first. So does Pantheon. Why? They want to capitalize on their strong early game as much as possible. Going for that type of build maximizes your early game damage, and any mana problems can be mitigated with runes and smart play. That's all there is to it.
tear is good on about 5-6 champions
ryze, urgot, yorick, and occasionally blitzcrank/corki but not always.
that's a debate for another time though. the issue at hand is pantheon.
pantheon is one of the most aggressive early game AD champions in the game. he always has been. that's why a tear start is suboptimal because you're sacrificing a lot of early game potential for a stronger mid-game and late-game - only problem is this: pantheon's mid/late game is SHIT compared to many other stronger-scaling AD champions like Yorick.
this is the reason why you never see a Garen rush straight for his mallet/atma's combo - he always stacks Doran's and maybe gets a Brutalizer first. So does Pantheon. Why? They want to capitalize on their strong early game as much as possible. Going for that type of build maximizes your early game damage, and any mana problems can be mitigated with runes and smart play. That's all there is to it.
...what is a standard Garen build now, then? I fear I've been doing it wrong for months now.
