Gastrodon

Guys guys. Sticky Hold could be a legit strategy. Don't say it isn't just because Smogon doesn't have it listed as a recommended ability. Personally I like Storm Drain because water moves are something you run into in virtually every battle. Trick is something you only see once in a while. I've been using Storm Drain since PO got B/W Pokemon because the buff was soooo good. But Sticky Hold is still a viable strategy.

People won't be firing off their water moves because they know of Gastrodon. They'll be holding back until the charade is up. And that could be a long time. One of the easiest ways to win a match is through the element of surprise. Doing the unexpected. BUT....the problem is this is a situational strategy.. as I stated before, trick isn't on every team, but water moves are probably something everybody's team carries. Storm Drain will just be something that's more useful most of the time.

I just thought of a similar strategy to this Sticky Hold charade business. I have a Magnezone I sometimes use that doesn't have Magnet Pull...but Sturdy instead. This leads to me trapping many "helpless" Pokemon and killing them because they would expect it to have Magnet Pull. Then when they throw out their revenge killer to earthquake/earthpower me...what's this? Magnezone survived? And KOed the revenge killer back? How unexpected! Of course now he's lost his use...but it destroyed 2 things in the process.

My point is, deceiving people with a less...useful ability can give you the benefit of both abilities (people wont use water moves, and you have trick immunity) until they see through your ruse. And in SOME rare/lucky cases, that'll earn you victory in a battle.
 
I have to disagree with you Bombkirby; Sticky Hold sucks. You cant "fake" storm drain by avoiding water type moves because thats what Gastrodons role is... If you avoiding switching into water moves, then your just putting yourself at a big disadvantage. Plus Gastrodon will just get destroyed by boosted Hydro Pumps. Samething with the whole Magnet Pull strategy you mentioned, your opponent will realize your running sturdy the minute you switch in because he will have the ability to press the button to switch pokemon on PO... These amazing abilities are the reason people use Gastro and Magnezone... Without them, they are completely outclassed by other pokes.
 
It certainly could work, but it is not as consistent as Storm Drain. Gastrodon doesn't have much to benefit from Sticky Hold though, bar the Trick, or occasional knock off. While Sticky Hold will shine given the right circumstances, Storm Drain is far more consistent and presents an existing threat.
 
I disagree, Olympus, at least on the case of Magnet Pull maggy. The "switch" button itself is not grayed, only the pokemon when you click on it. Often times, when a Magnezone comes in on your steel, you won't even bother to check. However, Sticky Hold Gastrodon is greatly nerfed.
 
So let's say they try to Trick Gastro, and have to switch out.

What are you going to do to the switchin? Toxic it? Scald and hope to burn?
 
Nubbins said:
What does stockpile gastrodon have over stockpile quagsire? I would say that unaware>storm drain/sticky hold.
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Well Sticky Hold would be useful to prevent it from getting hit by Trick, but I still think Unaware is better so your opponent can't keep boosting along side you.
 
I don't like neither gastrodon nor magnezone's gimmick sets. True that they won't fire water attacks at gastro, but you're missing the whole point on it. Gastrodon is useful because it can switch on against those huge boosted water attacks but now you can't. You will need a second pokemon to take water attacks on your team, and that's compromising the teambuilding too much just to gain a trick blocker. About magnezone, it's a mistake not to check out if your pokemon is actually trapped. I always do since a guy on the netbattle days suggested using sand veil dugtrio (which is also a bad idea). Did you happen to think that you may need using sturdy before trapping that steel pokemon? That would give up your trick.
 
Bluffing abilities can pay off, but they are a real gamble. It's the same deal with heatproof/levitate bronzong. A good opponent will often see though that you are not abusing the ability and can see through your bluff, which is the main problem. Don't get me wrong though, they can, and do pay off as well as being great fun to use :P
 
But in Bronzong's case the bluff isn't broken that easy because nothing on the log shows you the ability it runs, wheareas it does for Sticky hold/Magnet pull. True he can guess by you not switching into his Ground moves but when hit by a fire-type move he could also think that you run a max specially defensive investment.
(but anyway i agree it's pretty crap)
 
Spaniard said:
I don't like neither gastrodon nor magnezone's gimmick sets. True that they won't fire water attacks at gastro, but you're missing the whole point on it. Gastrodon is useful because it can switch on against those huge boosted water attacks but now you can't. You will need a second pokemon to take water attacks on your team, and that's compromising the teambuilding too much just to gain a trick blocker. About magnezone, it's a mistake not to check out if your pokemon is actually trapped. I always do since a guy on the netbattle days suggested using sand veil dugtrio (which is also a bad idea). Did you happen to think that you may need using sturdy before trapping that steel pokemon? That would give up your trick.
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Be realistic. What competent player would use a boosted water move when they can clearly see you have a Gastrodon? Remember Team Preview ruins any of the surprise of switching into a Gastrodon to absorb a water move, so bluffing is more viable than ever. The mere presence of a Gastrodon without Storm Drain will have the same effect as one that does not have it. But of course once you reveal it has Sticky Hold the jigg is up, but hoepfully its far into the match and the opponent missed their chance to KO one or two of your Pokemon. There may be certain occasions where they're using something like Ludicolo which will just fire a grass move at your Gastrodon after it absorbs the water move to OHKO it, but those moments are crazy rare.

Bottom line though is that there just isn't a better way. It all depends on your opponent. Are they simple minded enough to use water moves even though you have a Gastrodon? That'll ruin the Sticky Hold strategy and make the Storm Drain strategy extremely viable. OR... are they an observant player who will try to read you like a book and predict you'll just block his water moves? If they never give you the chance to absorb a water move, Storm Drain is essentially wasted, but the Sticky Hold strategy could be used to surprise him.

Although once again, I just would prefer Storm Drain as water moves are just more common, and many teams don't have trick or switcheroo or thief....resulting in Sticky Hold being a wasted ability.
 
I never overpredict early in a match, so I'd still use a Water attack against something like Heatran just to make sure it doesn't get another move. Also, I don't think Gastrodon is that crippled by Trick. Gastrodon will likely come in and use one attack before being forced out against an offensive team. Balanced teams could be a problem if it needs to stall something, but you won't find Pokemon with Trick and Choice items on a stall team, so you won't need to worry about being locked into one move against them.
 
Bombkirby said:
Be realistic. What competent player would use a boosted water move when they can clearly see you have a Gastrodon? Remember Team Preview ruins any of the surprise of switching into a Gastrodon to absorb a water move, so bluffing is more viable than ever. The mere presence of a Gastrodon without Storm Drain will have the same effect as one that does not have it. But of course once you reveal it has Sticky Hold the jigg is up, but hoepfully its far into the match and the opponent missed their chance to KO one or two of your Pokemon. There may be certain occasions where they're using something like Ludicolo which will just fire a grass move at your Gastrodon after it absorbs the water move to OHKO it, but those moments are crazy rare.

Bottom line though is that there just isn't a better way. It all depends on your opponent. Are they simple minded enough to use water moves even though you have a Gastrodon? That'll ruin the Sticky Hold strategy and make the Storm Drain strategy extremely viable. OR... are they an observant player who will try to read you like a book and predict you'll just block his water moves? If they never give you the chance to absorb a water move, Storm Drain is essentially wasted, but the Sticky Hold strategy could be used to surprise him.

Although once again, I just would prefer Storm Drain as water moves are just more common, and many teams don't have trick or switcheroo or thief....resulting in Sticky Hold being a wasted ability.
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The thing is, gastrodon isn't all that threatening. So as long as that water move isn't choiced, I'd happily fire them off, as would many. Nobody is going to risk a mispredict or let off offensive pressure just because a gastrodon is going to come in and do something mediocre the next turn
 
I've never had problems with Trick users considering even on my most stall focused teams I have at least one Scarf that won't mind other Choice items (except specs tends to be irritating to my common physical banders).
I've even had Gastrodon Tricked twice and it didn't affect me too much in battle.
I just haven't found Trick to be that threatening due to the presence of so many other Choice users.
 
Bombkirby said:
Be realistic. What competent player would use a boosted water move when they can clearly see you have a Gastrodon? Remember Team Preview ruins any of the surprise of switching into a Gastrodon to absorb a water move, so bluffing is more viable than ever. The mere presence of a Gastrodon without Storm Drain will have the same effect as one that does not have it. But of course once you reveal it has Sticky Hold the jigg is up, but hoepfully its far into the match and the opponent missed their chance to KO one or two of your Pokemon. There may be certain occasions where they're using something like Ludicolo which will just fire a grass move at your Gastrodon after it absorbs the water move to OHKO it, but those moments are crazy rare.

Bottom line though is that there just isn't a better way. It all depends on your opponent. Are they simple minded enough to use water moves even though you have a Gastrodon? That'll ruin the Sticky Hold strategy and make the Storm Drain strategy extremely viable. OR... are they an observant player who will try to read you like a book and predict you'll just block his water moves? If they never give you the chance to absorb a water move, Storm Drain is essentially wasted, but the Sticky Hold strategy could be used to surprise him.

Although once again, I just would prefer Storm Drain as water moves are just more common, and many teams don't have trick or switcheroo or thief....resulting in Sticky Hold being a wasted ability.
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At least we agree that strom drain is a better trait. Use sticky hold if you like it, I'm just saying I don't like it and don't think it'll pay off, but that's just an opinion. However I don't agree that team preview revealing gastrodon will prevent people from using water attacks, and it's a fact that you no longer can switch to block them.

On a side note, someone mentioned heatproof Bronzong paying off sometimes. That's a complete different case. Sticky hold gives you a very marginal bonus, while making zong neutral to burn (plus less burn damage and no attack loss) is a good plus even if your oponent is aware that you don't have levitate. With that said, I still prefer levitate bronzong.
 
As Spaniard mentioned, Sticky Hold gives Gastro only a marginal advantage. Although simply having Gastro will decrease, or even cease, water spamming. Unless the opponent has something that's choiced with a water attack, it's unlikely that they'll not water spam at all. The reason why Gastrodon is in OU is because it can directly switch into Rotom-W and many other powerful rain abusers, such as Thundurus pre-ban.
 
I believe Sticky Hold should only be used on boosting sets, particularly those that boost Def. and/or SpDef. (though, for those that only boost defenses, Toxic is a necessity).

A personal favorite and very, very underrated set is the Stockpile set with Toxic, which I have been using since the dawn of Gen. 4. Unprepared teams will be hurting quite a bit from one of those. After a Stockpile, which is easy to pull off, not having Storm Drain or Unaware (in the case of arguing Quagsire is a better Stockpile user) is almost negligable. After more than one Stockpile, it is negligable. Very few things can outlast it or outright defeat it, and the things that can need a STAB/Specs Grass move or pray for a critical hit. Being Toxic poisoned is a great pain for it, so having a Heal Bell user or getting it in to absorb a less threatening status is ideal.

Just my two cents.
 
Dr. Eyepatch said:
I believe Sticky Hold should only be used on boosting sets, particularly those that boost Def. and/or SpDef. (though, for those that only boost defenses, Toxic is a necessity).

A personal favorite and very, very underrated set is the Stockpile set with Toxic, which I have been using since the dawn of Gen. 4. Unprepared teams will be hurting quite a bit from one of those. After a Stockpile, which is easy to pull off, not having Storm Drain or Unaware (in the case of arguing Quagsire is a better Stockpile user) is almost negligable. After more than one Stockpile, it is negligable. Very few things can outlast it or outright defeat it, and the things that can need a STAB/Specs Grass move or pray for a critical hit. Being Toxic poisoned is a great pain for it, so having a Heal Bell user or getting it in to absorb a less threatening status is ideal.

Just my two cents.
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I've had the same idea before, but the main problem with stockpile with gastrodon is simple-it just sits there. What's to stop me from setting up in your face with lum berry nite or laying hazards with ferrothorn? Not to mention, 4X weaknesses are terrible for a stockpile user, since a quadweakness is usually required to break you after a stockpile. As for abilities:

Without storm drain, you just sit there even harder without special attack boosts, and you're also mostly deadweight, being unable to wall too much. Without sticky hold, you're trickbait.
 
I feel that running Sticky Hold Gastrodon is like running Heatproof Bronzong. It's a fun idea in theory, but it falls apart once your opponent catches on.
 
Axa said:
I feel that running Sticky Hold Gastrodon is like running Heatproof Bronzong. It's a fun idea in theory, but it falls apart once your opponent catches on.
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While they are similar, Heatproof Brongzong does gain a bigger "advantage" increase when compared to the amount Gastrodon's Sticky Hold can offer. It can also have more moments when it helps as opposed to Sticky Hold, such as living a hit and setting up screens, for example. However, I'd much rather use Levitate than Heat Proof myself. The earthquake weakness just isn't worth it, and Bronzong loses its nice ability to hard switch into things like Gliscor and Landorus.
 
Well, people will find out that you're using Sticky Hold Gastrodon once their Rotom-w's Trick wouldn't work on you and, also, you're all saying that no "competent" player would fire off water attacks because of team preview or whatever. Does that mean the opponent will never fire one at all? Obviously, that isn't true. It's inevitable that your opponent will eventually use it and find out that you're using it. Basically, just use a Choiced Pokemon if you seriously want a Trick absorber that badly...Stick Hold Gastrodon isn't work it.
 
I see the argument for sticky hold. It doesn't work in practice. The following is an example of what actually happens when using sticky hold gastrodon.

So I bring in rotom-w against your heatran and I'm playing a rain team. Let's say that I saw your leftovers recovery and have come to the conclusion that you're using a specially bulky heatran. My tornados won't like it if you lay down stealth rock...nor will he like it if he can't spam specs hurricane because of you. So in that case, I'm just going to fire off a hydro pump and try to kill you, rather than have my volt switch get predicted or waste a turn using trick as your set up sr.

Yes, from team preview, you have a gastrodon. But why should I care? Most gastrodon don't exactly pose an offensive threat and are setup fodder for my bulk up breloom, nasty plot celebi, toxic spikes roserade, etc. If you switch into hydro pump, then I have Pokemon who can come in against you for free every time. On my end, I'm not losing as much as I would if a garchomp switched into a thunderbolt, a dragonite switched into a choice earthquake, etc. On your end, you no longer have a reliable switch in to my water attacks at all. Because gastrodon doesn't exactly do much to threaten me, I am not threatened by it switching in and doing anything.
 
Oh my god, thank you. I'm so tired of this damn sticky hold debate. Before storm drain was buffed, gastrodon was NU, and for good reason. so now you've basically got an NU poke with an unexpected gimmick... when you could've just had an OU poke.
 
I remember as a gimick I ran sticky hold Gastrodon in OU, it wasn't that bad (it actually had it's perks over Swampet with recovery and being immune to trick). However, that was 4th gen, trick was more common, and rain boosted Hydro pumps where not flying around like they do today, I could not imagine using one today as you would just flat out lose to rain teams.
 
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