These are really cool thanks - what I'd love to see is the same charts for like the top 250-300 Pokemon. Just to see if there are any other random NU Pokemon being used to success near the top of the ladder. I've been using Parasect to great success near the very top of the ladder and am wondering what else is viable. Even just the Excel output would be super helpful if making the chart took too long :)
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OU Stats — January 2013
- Thread starter Harsha
- Start date
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These are really cool thanks - what I'd love to see is the same charts for like the top 250-300 Pokemon. Just to see if there are any other random NU Pokemon being used to success near the top of the ladder. I've been using Parasect to great success near the very top of the ladder and am wondering what else is viable. Even just the Excel output would be super helpful if making the chart took too long :)
This. Infernape's not a bad Pokemon, but if you use him in this meta, you'll wish you were using Terrakion or Keldeo, which are just as fast, stronger, and aren't hindered by rain, and benefit from it in Keldeo's case.
Sure. Here are the weight-sorted charts, but now sampling from all Pokemon in the stats:
Overall - http://i.imgur.com/Roheu0X.png
1337 - http://i.imgur.com/ZTfhQOh.png
Moltres, Rotom-C, Shaymin, Cobalion, and Crustle are the first 5 >#100 in usage now showing in the 1337 stats.
As for Parasect, it is #112 in the 1337 stats. Ahead of quite a few OU, such as Jolteon, Infernape, and Blissey.
You can only consider weighted stats with a grain of salt as it simply means its been more likely used by higher levelled players as opposed to lower players (a ratio). It doesn't necessarily mean people are having "better" success with them or that they are more "threatening" in OU. Look at Politoed, easily one of the most threatening pokemon in OU and T-T can not have such a heavy weighting without Politoed on their teams and yet it is not heavily weighted as it would be rather common for the whole variety of "tiers of skill" to be using rain.
Newer battlers and less experienced players probably don't look far outside of the OU recommended pokemon on the teambuilder.. postulating a reason why we see Amoonguss and Stoutland at the top of the weighted stats. You also have heavily weighted non-viable pokemon like Solosis.. which would obviously be due to [a] good player(s) incorporating it onto teams.
Then there is also other reasons why pokemon can be so heavily weighted. In mid-tier or low-tier battles you can probably easily get away with not having a dedicated Keldeo counter because most people will just sheep it out and use scarf Keldeo if they use her at all in these tiers... Meanwhile with higher level play you absolutely need a hard counter to the most popular sweepers. This explains why Slowbro used to be top 10 in previous 1337 stats whilst it was a solid UU otherwise (Terrakion was at its peak) and also explains why Jirachi and Rotom-W together make appearances on approximately 1 in every 2 teams during January (and I am willing to argue more before the recent ban as T-T was exiled rather early in January).
This also suggests why we see Amoonguss so high up as it currently is the "hardest" rain threat counter, being capable of switching in on everything Politoed has as well as common rain threats (Keldeo, Jolteon, Thundurus-T, bulky waters).
Otherwise excellent pokemon such as Gengar have been relegated to average weightings of below 0.5 because they are so popular with newer players...
Newer battlers and less experienced players probably don't look far outside of the OU recommended pokemon on the teambuilder.. postulating a reason why we see Amoonguss and Stoutland at the top of the weighted stats. You also have heavily weighted non-viable pokemon like Solosis.. which would obviously be due to [a] good player(s) incorporating it onto teams.
Then there is also other reasons why pokemon can be so heavily weighted. In mid-tier or low-tier battles you can probably easily get away with not having a dedicated Keldeo counter because most people will just sheep it out and use scarf Keldeo if they use her at all in these tiers... Meanwhile with higher level play you absolutely need a hard counter to the most popular sweepers. This explains why Slowbro used to be top 10 in previous 1337 stats whilst it was a solid UU otherwise (Terrakion was at its peak) and also explains why Jirachi and Rotom-W together make appearances on approximately 1 in every 2 teams during January (and I am willing to argue more before the recent ban as T-T was exiled rather early in January).
This also suggests why we see Amoonguss so high up as it currently is the "hardest" rain threat counter, being capable of switching in on everything Politoed has as well as common rain threats (Keldeo, Jolteon, Thundurus-T, bulky waters).
Otherwise excellent pokemon such as Gengar have been relegated to average weightings of below 0.5 because they are so popular with newer players...
@HabibsHotDogs -- What the weightings reported in the moveset stats mostly tells you is the percentage of time that Pokemon is used by a non-n00b, non-troll player. So you're right--lower score does not mean inferior Pokemon. All it means is that the Pokemon is less popular among newbish players.
Specifically, weighting does not tell you whether a Pokemon is overrated/underrated, because newbies [edit: to be more precise, bad teams used by bad players] no longer contribute to the stats in any meaningful way.
Specifically, weighting does not tell you whether a Pokemon is overrated/underrated, because newbies [edit: to be more precise, bad teams used by bad players] no longer contribute to the stats in any meaningful way.
I think we're all in the same train here, nothing against Scizor of course, but he's no Genesect. Is he supposed to be checking those Dragonites that many other things can check? Or is it the Terrakions? That kind of usage would make you think Scizor is the main offensive threat in the meta.
The point of our usage system (and thus this weighting system) is to accurately gauge threats. If a Pokemon is so good that even an "idiot" can win using that Pokemon, then the Pokemon deserves to be considered a threat, even if it's exclusively used by idiots. As I said in an earlier post, "average weight" is NOT an indicator of how good a Pokemon is.
The only teams that shouldn't be counted are the ones that have no realistic shot at winning against an average player, either because the team is garbage, or because the player is a completely hopeless idiot.
So I don't understand your issue.
[Edit: I edited the post you quoted for clarity, but it should have been clear already that I was using "newbie" as shorthand for bad team, bad player.]
I think scizor gets used a lot because he's good in a lot of situations and can fit well on a lot of teams thanks to its valuable steel typing and priority. It's just not like Terrakion/Tornadus-T that just rapes everything.
Okay, so all I want to know is this: why on earth is Solosis number one on that chart?!?!?!?
EDIT: Also, it makes me happy to see Darmanitan and Mienshao so high.
EDIT: Also, it makes me happy to see Darmanitan and Mienshao so high.
ALL that means is that hardly any bad/inexperienced players think of using Solisis.
Since a decent player is weighted about the same as a good player as a great player it DOESN'T say that "only good players use Solosis." In fact, the fact that Solosis doesn't appear on the 1850 chart says that you can't actually ladder too high using Solosis.
Thanks for these! And thanks Antar and HabbisHotDogs for the added insight into this matter.
Okay. This seems solid. It also adequately explains Reuniclus' plummeting usage as a result of its counters/checks being used more than Trick Room teams, or at least that's one of many interpretations I see among the weighting systems.
How do we tell if the player is a "completely hopeless idiot," though? I still have difficulty gauging how intelligent my opponents are because a lot of them tend to use similar 'mons, or restrict themselves to monotype teams for the sake of challenge/fun.
You can read all about that in this thread. In short, players are weighted using their rating to determine the probability that they are better than the "average player," which I mathematically define in that thread.
This is sort of a nubly question, but could someone explain the difference between the Usage %, Raw %, and Real %?
Thanks.
Usage is weighted, Raw is unweighted, Real only counts pokemon that actually appear in battle.
Yes. As is the metagame data and the moveset info.
It saddens me to see infernape, gastrodon and dugtrio still in OU. These things have like one niche each and they dont even perform them well. (Infernape has to deal with things like Jellicent now, gastrodon is crushed by keldeo and ferrothron meaning it doesnt check rain as good as people think, dugtrio is owned by air baloon and cant ohko anything not named heatran). Hope they drop someday as uu would be a much more suitable place for them.
Dugtrio is a very good pokemon if you ask me... What really surprises me is seeing starmie and gengar so high, they are OHKOed by so many common threats, and they arent that powerful either. I guess that if deo-d goes to ubers they'll drop quite a bit.
Starmie is still up there because it Rapid Spins. Barring that, its rather weak, not too bulky, and it would most likely be UU if we had many other choices for spinners. The other reasonable options, though, are Forretress and Tentacruel. Yeah. There goes your momentum.
We really need more Rapid Spinners.
Very interesting stats this month.
First off:
| 13 | Keldeo | 11.48675% | 81733 | 8.598% | 61302 | 8.001% |
Finally getting the love it really deserves. Not surprised. Ran into so many of these this month, surprised it wasn't higher. Quite honestly, it still should be higher. This thing is so good. We all look at Terrakion as this huge prevalent offensive threat, that every team needs no be able to check. Keldeo, in my opinion, is even better. Especially in rain. All of it's sets are really good too. We all know how good it is scarfed in the rain, but I run a specs one on my weatherless team. With Politoed still sitting pretty up there at #2, it hits so ridiculously hard everytime it gets the opportunity. People switch into their Tentacruel, and expect to be able to wall it. But guess what:
252SpAtk Choice Specs Keldeo Resolution (Neutral) Hydro Pump in Rain vs 252HP/0SpDef Tentacruel (Neutral): 51% - 60% (187 - 221 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Yeah it's a guaranteed 2HKO in rain without hazards. If you haven't tried it you should. Also don't forget about the CM+3 Attacks set, or the SubCM set. Those are still very good, and can catch people off guard. With its very acceptable speed, it can sweep some teams at just +1.
I didn't think I should have to make a speech about how good Keldeo is. People are seeing now how good it is, but I think it should still be higher. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually does become Uber in the future. Although I'd be sad to see My Little Pony go.
Next:
22 | Landorus-Therian | 8.67255% | 62606 | 6.586% | 54159 | 7.069% |
And:
25 | Thundurus-Therian | 7.96452% | 64788 | 6.816% | 50982 | 6.654% |
Pretty nice jump for the two Therians left in OU. Especially Landorus-T. Both are very good pokes in this meta. Predicting they will both be top 20 next month. Landorus-T possibly being top 15.
Next:
30 | Infernape | 7.18132% | 75695 | 7.963% | 60746 | 7.929% |
I know the conversation has been had about this before, but man this really is a bit too high for Ape. I won't say that it doesn't have a niche in this meta, or that it doesn't have a place on any team. It's just... not that good...
Next:
33 | Landorus | 6.93382% | 49763 | 5.235% | 38664 | 5.047% |
Not gonna get in-depth on this one, but seriously. USE IT! Arguably the best late-game sweeper in this meta should be higher.
Next:
35 | Celebi | 6.48850% | 52288 | 5.501% | 42857 | 5.594% |
Expecting this to rise as well. It has gone from unseen in the BW/BW2 meta-game to a great Poke very quickly. The Specially Defensive set checks/counters a lot of common threats. Also its Nasty Plot set has great potential right now as well.
Next:
39 | Deoxys-Defense | 6.27287% | 54854 | 5.771% | 50248 | 6.559% |
So low for something potentially going Uber. I'll stay reserved on my thoughts on this Suspect Round, though.
Next:
52 | Reuniclus | 4.25971% | 40334 | 4.243% | 31530 | 4.115% |
Poor jelly. :(
Lastly:
53 | Haxorus | 3.89987% | 41675 | 4.384% | 31412 | 4.100% |
Boy, that is dangerously close to UU isn't it. There's no way it would ever go UU though, right? RIGHT?!
Praise be to Antar.
First off:
| 13 | Keldeo | 11.48675% | 81733 | 8.598% | 61302 | 8.001% |
Finally getting the love it really deserves. Not surprised. Ran into so many of these this month, surprised it wasn't higher. Quite honestly, it still should be higher. This thing is so good. We all look at Terrakion as this huge prevalent offensive threat, that every team needs no be able to check. Keldeo, in my opinion, is even better. Especially in rain. All of it's sets are really good too. We all know how good it is scarfed in the rain, but I run a specs one on my weatherless team. With Politoed still sitting pretty up there at #2, it hits so ridiculously hard everytime it gets the opportunity. People switch into their Tentacruel, and expect to be able to wall it. But guess what:
252SpAtk Choice Specs Keldeo Resolution (Neutral) Hydro Pump in Rain vs 252HP/0SpDef Tentacruel (Neutral): 51% - 60% (187 - 221 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
Yeah it's a guaranteed 2HKO in rain without hazards. If you haven't tried it you should. Also don't forget about the CM+3 Attacks set, or the SubCM set. Those are still very good, and can catch people off guard. With its very acceptable speed, it can sweep some teams at just +1.
I didn't think I should have to make a speech about how good Keldeo is. People are seeing now how good it is, but I think it should still be higher. I wouldn't be surprised if it actually does become Uber in the future. Although I'd be sad to see My Little Pony go.
Next:
22 | Landorus-Therian | 8.67255% | 62606 | 6.586% | 54159 | 7.069% |
And:
25 | Thundurus-Therian | 7.96452% | 64788 | 6.816% | 50982 | 6.654% |
Pretty nice jump for the two Therians left in OU. Especially Landorus-T. Both are very good pokes in this meta. Predicting they will both be top 20 next month. Landorus-T possibly being top 15.
Next:
30 | Infernape | 7.18132% | 75695 | 7.963% | 60746 | 7.929% |
I know the conversation has been had about this before, but man this really is a bit too high for Ape. I won't say that it doesn't have a niche in this meta, or that it doesn't have a place on any team. It's just... not that good...
Next:
33 | Landorus | 6.93382% | 49763 | 5.235% | 38664 | 5.047% |
Not gonna get in-depth on this one, but seriously. USE IT! Arguably the best late-game sweeper in this meta should be higher.
Next:
35 | Celebi | 6.48850% | 52288 | 5.501% | 42857 | 5.594% |
Expecting this to rise as well. It has gone from unseen in the BW/BW2 meta-game to a great Poke very quickly. The Specially Defensive set checks/counters a lot of common threats. Also its Nasty Plot set has great potential right now as well.
Next:
39 | Deoxys-Defense | 6.27287% | 54854 | 5.771% | 50248 | 6.559% |
So low for something potentially going Uber. I'll stay reserved on my thoughts on this Suspect Round, though.
Next:
52 | Reuniclus | 4.25971% | 40334 | 4.243% | 31530 | 4.115% |
Poor jelly. :(
Lastly:
53 | Haxorus | 3.89987% | 41675 | 4.384% | 31412 | 4.100% |
Boy, that is dangerously close to UU isn't it. There's no way it would ever go UU though, right? RIGHT?!
Praise be to Antar.
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