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What if Terrakion could only learn Superpower instead of Close Combat?
Terrakion is the Pokemon to which all other physical attackers compare themselves too. Excellent STABs, great stats and two great moves (well, okay, one great move) in Close Combat and Stone Edge means that virtually nothing is safe from a 2HKO from this monster.
But what if Terrakion didn't have access to his most powerful move? What if he only learned Superpower instead? Would he still be the game's greatest physical attacker?
STAB Bug Buzz is the main thing that allows Volcarona to bypass Tyranitar and Lati@s. However, it becomes only 2x SR weak in the process. Worth it or not?
STAB Bug Buzz is the main thing that allows Volcarona to bypass Tyranitar and Lati@s. However, it becomes only 2x SR weak in the process. Worth it or not?
Losing that fighting resist is actually pretty huge too, and you'll pretty much need spin/magic bounce/taunt and a shit ton of offensive pressure to use volcarona to full potential regardless..
I believe Volcarona would still have a niche in OU, but it would lose quite a lot of viability, and would quite likely drop to BL or UU
in this case Terrakion would probably be stuck to Choiced sets, since most likely you'll be switching after 1 shot anyway. An SD set would probably be a bit more oriented to a wallbreaking role as opposed to sweeping (maybe?), but otherwise I don't think this change would hurt Terrakion all that much
WHAT IF AZELF GOT SHEER FORCE?
Its the willpower mon so makes sense flavour-wise.
Sheerforce lifeorb azelf would be crazy strong thanks to 125/125/115 stats. Psychic, tbolt, flamethrower, elemental punches, zen headbutt, shadowball all get massive boosts.
Sheer Force Azelf would probably be broken because with the variety of options it has there are NO free switch-ins to SF Azelf.
With Base 115 speed it hits hard and fast and can go mixed, physical or special.
I'm really skeptical about Azelf getting Sheer Force from a flavor stand point. First of all:
1. Every user of Sheer Force has a HIGHER ATK than Sp.A-- Azelf's are equal
2. Sheer Force isn't really about will power-- it's about forcing shit. Both the English and Japanese 力づく refer to the act of forcefully bashing through shit instead of using tact.
This:
does not make me think of a Pokemon that wrecks shit with brute force. When you think "Sheer Force," you're looking for something more like this:
or this:
or this:
or this:
or this:
Basically, if you don't have rippling muscles ready to wreck shit, I'm going to be very skeptical about you getting Sheer Force.
Of course, Azelf with Sheer Force would hit like a tank, since it basically boosts every attack Azelf has. Psychic is also a much better move than it was before. Still, I would be a bit skeptical because of Azelf's frailty and Sheer Force taking away its only defensive merit. It would probably be usable and quite dangerous, but I highly doubt it would be broken.
Azelf would hit harder, but it wouldn't solve any of the Problems that it got in todays meta-game mainly being weak to Priority/Pursuit/scarfers and having no reliable way around TTar and Heatran outside of a weak HP Fighting. It also has a mediocre mono psychic typing and little bulk + it would lose Levitate and seeing how Pokemon with Levitate didn't even got DW abilities it doesn't makes sense at all.
What if Garchomp got Dry Skin? This totally makes sense from a flavor standpoint, as Garchomp already has Rough Skin, and if you skin is rough, it's usually dry. This would make substitute sets more dangerous, as they could sub more times. It prevents Garchomp from being Life Orb stalled. Another scary thought is that on Sub Salac sets, you could potentially have a full HP Chomp (lol looks like Hidden Power Chomp) with plus 1 in speed and plus 2 in attack. Behind a sub.
I was going to suggest Sand Rush, since Chomp is all about dat speed, but that would be broken as hell. Exadrill with better bulk, more speed, still hella scary out of sand, in sand shit goes down.
Sand Force would be better though. EQ woukd wreck shit.
What if Chandelure got Giga Drain? It says it in its dex entries that it absorbs spirits; as well as getting Energy Ball and Solarbeam, so why not Giga Drain?
edit: The only Pokemon with Levitate that got a DW ability was Bronzong, and honestly I dont think Garchomp should get that
What if Garchomp got Dry Skin? This totally makes sense from a flavor standpoint, as Garchomp already has Rough Skin, and if you skin is rough, it's usually dry. This would make substitute sets more dangerous, as they could sub more times. It prevents Garchomp from being Life Orb stalled. Another scary thought is that on Sub Salac sets, you could potentially have a full HP Chomp (lol looks like Hidden Power Chomp) with plus 1 in speed and plus 2 in attack. Behind a sub.
I was going to suggest Sand Rush, since Chomp is all about dat speed, but that would be broken as hell. Exadrill with better bulk, more speed, still hella scary out of sand, in sand shit goes down.
Sand Force would be better though. EQ woukd wreck shit.
Sand Force Garchomp would be terrifying. This would make Skarmory and Bronzong that much better, and Choice Band Sand Force EQ cleanly 2HKOs standard Ferrothorn. Look at it this way: Remember how awful Landorus-I was in early BW1? Make him faster, bulkier, stronger with better STAB, with vulnerability to Toxic Spikes and Spikes preventing him from being a better Choice User. Except now he's resistant to Rocks (which is far more common), so there's that. Look at it this way: You 2HKO physically defensive Hippowdon 96% of the time with Rocks in the sand with CB Sand Force EQ.
Sand Force Garchomp would be terrifying. This would make Skarmory and Bronzong that much better, and Choice Band Sand Force EQ cleanly 2HKOs standard Ferrothorn. Look at it this way: Remember how awful Landorus-I was in early BW1? Make him faster, bulkier, stronger with better STAB, with vulnerability to Toxic Spikes and Spikes preventing him from being a better Choice User. Except now he's resistant to Rocks (which is far more common), so there's that. Look at it this way: You 2HKO physically defensive Hippowdon 96% of the time with Rocks in the sand with CB Sand Force EQ.
Eh, Landorus-I was absolutley horrible to deal with in early BW due to the fact that Sand Force was glitched and gave a 1.5 boost instead of a 1.3 boost, which was allowing stupid stuff like 2HKOing Breloom with Earthquake.
Edit: derp, Landorus can still do 2HKO Breloom with Earthquake. Well, I don't have any specific examples, but there was definitley a noticeable power difference when Sand Force was patched.
Eh, Landorus-I was absolutley horrible to deal with in early BW due to the fact that Sand Force was glitched and gave a 1.5 boost instead of a 1.3 boost, which was allowing stupid stuff like 2HKOing Breloom with Earthquake.
Well, I was more refrencing how stupidly strong Landorus-I was in early BW, but yeah, I my mental calcs were stupidly off, but my point still stands. Landorus-I was awful to deal with because Sand Force was bugged and gave more power then supposed to. Obviously, Garchomp would honestly be worse to deal with just because it could hit things resistant to EQ with STAB Outrage, and it has a bit of an easier time getting past Skarmory.
Azelf would hit harder, but it wouldn't solve any of the Problems that it got in todays meta-game mainly being weak to Priority/Pursuit/scarfers and having no reliable way around TTar and Heatran outside of a weak HP Fighting. It also has a mediocre mono psychic typing and little bulk + it would lose Levitate and seeing how Pokemon with Levitate didn't even got DW abilities it doesn't makes sense at all.
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Azelf Signal Beam vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 361-426 (93.52 - 110.36%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Azelf Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 166-197 (43.11 - 51.16%) -- 64.45% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Azelf: 144-171 (49.48 - 58.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
A NP set with Psychic/Fire Blast/ Signal Beam would destroy just about anything. I mean, it has a good chance to 2HKO Blissey
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Azelf Psychic vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 282-333 (43.25 - 51.07%) -- 65.23% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The only problem would be setting up, but if it could get a Nasty Plot up it would basically be gg.
From now on, OU Theorymon will be playable on the Tervari Server of PS!
Currently the only changes are the Pokemon that are tested for a Theorymon Viability Ranking
It is listed beneath Normal OU so it should be easy to find.
Hmmm. Those calcs are pretty convincing, so I would like to find some ideas on how to set up. It woukd probably need dual screens/Wobb support, which is pretty huge. You might as well use Belly Drum Darmanitan if you're going into that trouble. The oher problem is Azelf's frailty. It is easily taken down by priority, and when the No. 1 used poke is Szizor, that can really suck.
Edit: Wow that's cool Snaquaza. I'm going to hop on right now.
Look at Haxorus, it looks like it would be a good candidate for Guts, with it's enormous jaw and claws.
But competitively, Guts Haxorus probably be a great Physical Sweeper, as at +1, Skarmory is 2HKO'd by Adamant Outrage after Stealth Rock
With here some calc's to prove how powerful it would be
But it will be easily worn down by Toxic / Burn damage, entry hazards and the turn setup that it takes.
Because of this, teams could play around it by keeping the offensive pressure high and / or setting up multiple hazards (excluding Toxic Spikes) also after all this damage it will probably be KO'd by most priority.
So would Guts Haxorus dominate the Ladder or would it fall down because of it's very easily worn down, or would it even by Uber level because of its unleveled power.
I'll try to comment on the other things later
I suggested this as I was looking to underused Pokemon, moves and abilities and this one stood out as a very natural and powerful one, although it might be a bit too powerful.
Haxorus' problem is not power- it can 2HKO most Of tue metagame with Choice Banded Outrage anyway. The way I see it, its problems are as follows-
Low base speed. Dragan Dance mitigates this problem somewhat, but most scarfers sit at 100 or higher base speed.
Lack of bulk. This prevents Haxorus from getting in the battle very easily. It also leaves Haxorus, even if it sets up to plus 6 speed and attack, vulnerable to priority and revenge killing in general.
Poor coverage. While Banded Outrage gives no fucks about resists, it has a nasty side effect of locking Haxorus in. The res of its moves suck. Superpower is ok, Earthquake kinda redundant with Superpower, Aqua Tail is meh...you get the idea. Basically, this means Haxorus is almost forced to use Outrage.
Not even noobs use it. You know you suck when noobs don't use you.
If you disagree, just point it out. Please don't hate like half the people do. That's just my three cents. Hah. Upping the game, biatches!
Look at Haxorus, it looks like it would be a good candidate for Guts, with it's enormous jaw and claws.
But competitively, Guts Haxorus probably be a great Physical Sweeper, as at +1, Skarmory is 2HKO'd by Adamant Outrage after Stealth Rock
With here some calc's to prove how powerful it would be
But it will be easily worn down by Toxic / Burn damage, entry hazards and the turn setup that it takes.
Because of this, teams could play around it by keeping the offensive pressure high and / or setting up multiple hazards (excluding Toxic Spikes) also after all this damage it will probably be KO'd by most priority.
So would Guts Haxorus dominate the Ladder or would it fall down because of it's very easily worn down, or would it even by Uber level because of its unleveled power.
I'll try to comment on the other things later
I suggested this as I was looking to underused Pokemon, moves and abilities and this one stood out as a very natural and powerful one, although it might be a bit too powerful.
I don't know if it would neccesarily dominate the ladder (Kyurem-B is extremely powerful and sits surprisingly low in usage, even with its flaws), but it would give us more of a reason to use it. A Toxic or Flame Orb set would become standard on Haxorus, making it one of the most powerful all-out-attackers in the tier. Dragon Claw would still be the primary move that Haxorus will spam, because with a Guts boost it's doing about the same amount as an unboosted Outrage. Superpower would still be the primary coverage move of choice so Haxorus can KO Ferrothorn after SR most of the time. Aqua Tail would be a great option on rain teams to decimate Landorus-T, Gliscor, and to always 2HKO Skarmory after SR.
On top of the all-out-attacking set, Haxorus' DD set will become even more viable because it will allow Haxorus to patch up its speed while also boosting its power to astronomical levels factoring in Guts and while at +1. Nothing would be safe from this thing really. Lastly, Haxorus would be a teams go to status absorber, which puts a lot of pressure on the opposing team and would really threaten stall teams.
With all that said, Haxorus would still struggle to be top Dragon in OU. As seen by Kyurem-B, speed is a huge factor in a Pokemon success, and unless Haxorus gets a boost in speed, it would still be difficult for Haxorus to truly shine, because it absolutely NEEDS to be at +1 to sweep teams. It's hard for Haxorus to setup because of its frail defenses and vulnerability to being outsped most of the CS users in OU. All in all, Guts Haxorus would be one of the best wall breakers in OU, and one of the most devastating sweepers when used right, but it would still struggle to find a very solid place on most OU teams because of its speed, frailness, and poor longevity with a status orb.
I don't think it would make much sense flavor wise, but I think Quick Feet would benefit Haxorus more then Guts IMO. It already hits extremely hard, and it has access to boosting moves. The SD set would be absolutely terrifying. +1 Speed and +2 Attack? Yes Please.
Gary, if Haxorus is running Guts he's not running Mold Breaker so Rotom-W is unaffected by EQ.
That being said, I don't think being a boosting sweeper is all that viable anymore in a metagame with all the base 108s and above running around. Salamence is an absolute terror to behold, but I stopped trying to run him after the umpteenth time he was revenged by Scarf Latios and Terrakion. I was using SubSalacSD Garchomp for a long time on a very successful team, but eventually stopped trying after HE was revenged for the nth time by Scarf Keldeo. Guts and Agility might make Haxorus work, but anything under base 110 is fighting an uphill battle if it can only afford one boost most of the time.
O.k this is no longer relevant to OU. This threat has shifted from discussing how x would affect the OU meta, and has evolved into "We have a new metagame now". The OU mods will confer but it is highly likely will will move this to the OM forum. Chou, as OP of this thread, if you have opinions you can PM them to an OU staff member and we will take your opinions into account when making this decision.
