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How you feel about the Kalos Champion

How do you feel Diantha matches up to her previous counterparts?


  • Total voters
    445
Thanks to Pokemon Amie and the EXP Share mechanics changing, my weakest going into the E4 was 74 so obviously it wasn't a challenge.
Well obviously when you're playing the game on uber-easy mode the game is going to be easy, that's not really a fair measure of any NPC's strength.
Try EXP Share off, Set Battle Style, no Amie/Super Training and it might be a little more interesting.

Most of the Champions have done something to stop the villains. She doesn't even seem to acknowledge their existence, let alone lift a finger to do anything about them. Despite Lysandre's clear and obvious insanity from his first really creepy dialogue with her.

I don't know, I haven't finished the game yet, but thus far, I am entirely unimpressed. Even Alder manned up and tried to stop the villains, even with a broken heart and his best partner dead. Lance beat up on Team Rocket several times. Cynthia apparently hunts down evildoers everywhere. Diantha...makes movies. Yay?
Yeah, after the veritable parade of Gym Leaders showing up to stop Plasma in BW it seems odd that no such help was offered to take down Lysandre. He even messages everyone with a Holo Caster to say "Yep, I'm gonna kill everyone now" but somehow only a small child and his/her incompetent friends show up to do something about it? What the shit?
edit: My mistake, the duo who upgrades your pokedex throughout the plot also show up, but for some reason they're wearing masks and trying to be superheroes or something and its even weirder.
 
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Well, Looker gives it a shot against Team Galactic in Platinum.

And there's [Possibly Looker] on the S.S Anne investigateing the Rockets in R/B/Y FR/LG; anbd that police officer who says they have trouble with the Rockets.

The gangs are simply too much for the Police to handle. Probobly too busy doing paperwork to train their Growlithes.
 
I don't know why the poll allows for multiple votes, but I actually voted for both "meh. she's alright" and "I quite like her!".

I mean, as the Champion herself, she's just okay. We don't get to really understand her, and her team is rather easy. She does have some interesting Pokemon, especially her Gardevoir, though.

The real reason for the other, higher vote: her battle music is amazing. Just the right blend of intensity and beauty but also with that cheerfulness that I rather like in Champion themes (hence why Champion Iris's theme is my all-time favorite Pokemon music; this one isn't quite as good but is pretty close).
 
- Her L66 Goodra survived Air Slash from my Modest L98 Charizard Y (30 SpA IV, 252 EVs) with around 3% HP. THAT IS AMAZING TESTAMENT TO GOODRA'S SPECIAL WALLING ABILITY.
- I like how her Trace Gardevoir reactivates Drought when she switches in.
- Her music is disappointing after the previous generation.
- Her team is mostly slow and underwhelming.
 
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I said she was underwhelming. She's a pretty obv champ and occasionally sounds innocently annoying. My underleveled team (I heard you get way too overleveled in XY when I started playing, finished today so I made it a point to underlevel myself) had some slight issues with her, with one Linoone standing stronger than the rest. She is very hard to sweep in one go, so she's at least better than Wallace (Steven is the actual end of Emerald, as Red is in GSC). Linoone is gdlk tho
 
I was underwhelmed by her, but admittedly I had Exp Share on and was consequently about 10-15 levels higher than all the Gyms and E4 members anyway.

As for how I'd rank them;

Cynthia
Blue
Alder*
Steven
Lance
Diantha
Wallace
(Never played BW2 so no Iris)

Honestly Cynthia is the only one I've ever felt really worked as a 'champion'. Blue is a great fight, but it's essentially the payoff of your rivalry with him, he's not really that sort of ultra trainer figure the Champion has come to represent. Although RBY are sort of an enigma anyway, their E4 are honestly less impressive than the others, by the time you get there your rival has already stomped them basically. Most of the others go the complete opposite way, having so little involvment or hype that once you get to them it's just "eh, champion time I guess" which Diantha, Steven & Wallace fall under. Lance has some build-up hype, but honestly he's pretty weak, I think Clair was probably more challenging because of Kingdra. Lance & Wallace also get special mention for being type-themed lol

Cynthia isn't just the hardest fight, she's seen throughout the games actively contributing, playing a distinct role fighting off bad guys and just generally being a badass, with the other subtle theme of her also being a Pokedex professor pick like you, giving that whole humble beginnings parallel. She also does stuff post-E4 which serves to continue solidifying her position as being more than just a trainer that sits in the league all day waiting for challenges. In a way she's the most like the player character, and you get the sense that becoming the champion hasn't changed her - she's the champion because of who she is, rather than simply being a character who's only defining characteristic is "I'm the champion". Which is evident from this paragraph; if you asked me to describe Cynthia as a character I'd be able to do so for quite a while without even needing to discuss her status as a champion, where as with say Steven or Diantha you've got maybe a sentence of backstory and that's it because they literally are just there to be Champions. (Although I concede Steven in better in Emerald - but hey, he's not even the champion there)

Now Alder is an interesting one, he has all the makings of a good champion, but you don't -actually- fighting him as a champion due to the storyline, although the eventual fight you can do when rematching the E4 is pretty great. I really do like his character though, there's a lot of interesting back-story and depth to him and he's the first champion whom is, well old, and actually conveys that sort of wisdom and experience. Most champions appear to be mid twenties/early thirties at the oldest, at the prime of their youth and whilst it works, there's something about a character like Alder whom you know has been around for a real long-ass time, and still remains the champion, that says things about how powerful they are. I guess another way of putting it is I think Alder is probably the best character of them, but his actual role as the champion in gameplay progression is different due to the plot so he can't really compete with Cynthia or Blue on fair grounds honestly.

As for the topic of discussion regarding a champion's involvement in the plot, I'd personally like it if at some point we got the essentially opposite of Cynthia/Alder like characters and just straight up had a villain as an E4 champion. Don't even directly tie them to an evil 'Team' either, make it so that the typical "evil team of the week" dynamic is just replaced with regular criminals throughout the game -crime gangs, mafia like groups, ect- with a subtle theme of their being more going on, and have it eventually play out that the Champion was behind everything, using their position to keep themselves hidden. Heck in XY we already have Malva in the Elite Four and she's revealed to be a member of Team Flare via the Looker side-quest, so we've already got new precedent for villainous E4 members (Not touching on other media adaptions here).
 
I thought Diantha was pretty...meh. She has her pros, but also has her cons as well, but not enough to make her awful. At this point, the chart would be like this:

1) Cynthia
2) Blue [can change between two]
3) Lance
4) Steven
5) Diantha
6) Iris
7) Alder
8) Wallace

Cynthia was and still is one of the best Champions Game Freak has ever created, and definitely on par with Blue (also one of the best), thus the "change between the two" motif. Both represented themselves, were fun to fight, had music and teams that put yourself into the fight, had plenty of back-story within the game (especially Blue), and had a fair bit of difficulty.

Steven and Lance were not the best Champions in terms of difficulty, but they definitely had a unique team and represented their generations quite nicely. Yes, it was obvious they were the Champions, but at the very least they gave us some inside info on their personality and back-story, helping with their character (Mossdeep City and Blackthorn City, anybody?).

And then we get to Diantha...she was predictable, yes. But her difficulty is very variable, actually. If you have a balanced team, it should be a fun fight. Rely on one Pokemon? Ready your stopwatch. I am a bit okay with her personality, to be perfectly honest, but I do find that they should have done more to emphasize her character. She is definitely my "middle Champion."

Iris had no backstory unless you used the "wireless" thing...forgot what it was called. And even so, it is a bit lazy to expect to only use this scene to explain everything. I digress...she does have a very good team and an awesome theme to boot, but her as a Champion just feels a bit off...

Alder was one of the most anti-climatic Champions I have ever seen. His team is pretty easy (most of his Pokemon are downed by just one type), and he really doesn't explain himself too much as a Champion. I found the constant "lessons" he gave to be more of a nuisance, as I knew these things.

Wallace sucks...just plain and simple. Hands down the easiest (Water-types after Water-gym after surfing on freaking WATER), most loathed, and most bland Champion out of the entire series. This decision was LAZY.
 
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Meh, I like her look and her team, the problem is that, because of the exp share, I had an overleveled team when I faced her so she was easy as a pie. I usually fight Champions with 10-15 levels below their level which makes the fight interesting. If I had lower levels, she may become a hard champion like Cynthia.
 
I actually think Lance was the hardest Champion (Come on. THREE PSEUDO LEGENDARIES??? Well, the rest of his team is crap, except for maybe Gyarados, so it's all good).

In XY, the problem was that your Pokemon's levels could be higher, and you literally got great Pokemon handed to you. Her design and character are just meh. Oh, and my Pokemon outsped everything she threw at me.

I actually liked Iris, who had a story from the anime, Cynthia, Alder, and Blue. Not Red. And Wallace is stupid (the WATER champion with WATER pokemon that have WATER type attacks after the WATER gym leader with WATER attacks on WATER pokemon in the region with a WATER legendary that lives underWATER and summons rain and uses WATER spout which is a WATER attack to wreck stuff. So...yeah.
 
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Well obviously when you're playing the game on uber-easy mode the game is going to be easy, that's not really a fair measure of any NPC's strength.
Try EXP Share off, Set Battle Style, no Amie/Super Training and it might be a little more interesting.
I did this (only breaking it by using Amie/Super training on my starter to try it out, and I barely used him for this reason). The game was pretty damn hard to get through... Until I got to the elite four.
All my Pokemon were 5-10 levels lower than the elite four/champion, and I still destroyed them. Only had to reload once because I was derping and using completely wrong moves against the fire elite four.
I was actually kinda disappointed, I like playing through the game with a bad team (only used 6th gen pokemon, no pseudo/legendaries) and then struggling against the elite four.
 
I was really unimpressed by her. She does nothing of importance whatsoever, and there's no real hint that she's the champion except that she is the only character who hasn't done anything relevant, so there would be no point to include her otherwise. In my mind the Champion list goes:
Cynthia
Lance
Blue
Alder
Iris
Steven
Diantha
Wallace

We all know Cynthia. Great theme, great team, all around good character. Pretty much the ideal champion.

Lance has, in my opinion, the greatest battle music in the series. Dragonite is also my favorite Pokemon, so there's that. He beats the crap out of Team Rocket and probably has more involvement in the game than any other Champion. Or at leas the most productive involvement. Blue technically got involved, but he was pretty counterproductive. (Not now, Blue. I'm trying to save this building from a criminal organization.)

Blue probably gave the most climactic battle, being not just the battle against the champion, but also a final climactic battle against your rival. Also, since it was the first generation, we didn't expect a 5th battle after the Elite Four, especially given how badass Lance's Dragon types were. He was also the only real obstacle standing between you and Mewtwo by the time you reached him, and we ALL wanted Mewtwo back then.

Alder was the most Champion-like in my opinion. He said some smart things, he got involved in the plot, and was all around pretty good. A Bug-type champion was a really cool idea as well. He's not bad by any means, he just falls a little short of the Champions I listed before him.

I was tempted to put Iris above Alder just because she was cute, but decided against it. Her team is pretty epic, but the whole Dragon-champion thing had already been done. Her theme was cool, I liked the idea of her stepping up and becoming the champion between B/W and B2/W2, and she was effin' adorable as a Champion, but she was very un-Champion-like in her dialogue. Still not bad, of course.

Steven is a huge drop off from the people above him in terms of awesomeness. Steel-types were cool, and I liked his team, but he just didn't feel that 'epic' and I didn't care for his character design too much. His theme wasn't that memorable, and really, nothing about him was. He wasn't necessarily bad, but was nowhere near as memorable as some of the other champions.

As for Diantha, in addition to what I said earlier, her team is pretty weak, her battle theme, while awesome for the first 2 or 3 seconds, feels kind of 'cheesy.' I don't know how to describe it, it fell just short of amazing, but something was just off. She also has the stupidest looking Mega Evolution out of all the potential Mega Evolutions. Gardevoir is much more awesome than Mega Gardevoir.

Wallace is Wallace. How lame is a water type Champion? By this time, you should have dealt with enough water to drown a continent. Wallace was not only unimpressive, he was annoying. I felt nothing while battling him but annoyance. It was like facing a Swimmer with a massively overleveled team, minus the surprise factor.
 
Rant coming guys: The poll asks us how we feel about Diantha, and im incapable of doing it w/o comparing her to the other champions we have gotten across 5 prior generations, so imma use my personal rank for them to make a description, note that, while this are just my opinions, i took into account character portrait, plot involvement and team design and overall difficulty, i wouldve also taken into account theme but thats much more subjective

Cynthia
Green/Lance
Steven
Alder
Iris
Diantha
Wallace

Pretty similar to most people; its said on and on, but Cynthia is what most of the fanbase looked for in a Champion, she is portraited as a calm and caring wandering trainer, which i could relate to since that is exactly what i always imagine the protagonists like. Her team is nothing to scoff at, i myself a serious problem with her as a newbie, and, in all objectivity, she had the best all around diversity and cool as well as rare pokemon in Sinnoh (Garchomp, Lucario, Togekiss, Milotic). I definetely wish she wouldve had more involvement in the Galactic attack on Mt coronet, but she does help a lot when it comes to myths, and she gave me a Togepi and i love her for that.

Green has the factor going for him in that hes your rival, you may have already beaten him a lot, but he still got to your goal faster, he was the original user of diverse types, and if we take into account HG SS, he has a freaking tyranitar. As for his character, i love the way gamefreak actually him a rival, hes an asshole that gives 0 flying ducks if you get beat up by team rocket as long as he gets to the goal first. Involvement in the story is poor because of that, and thats why hes is tied with Lance, who doesnt have the rival thing going for him. He is a badass, intimidating guy that must have killed a rocket grunt with a hyper beam with a dnite. I have alreayd said this, but he is still the only champion to force me into using a legend, and in general 3 dragonites is overwhelming when you shouldnt have ice beam at this point.

Steven is pretty close, specially because of that last battle in Emerald, similarly to Cynthia hes calm and a wandering trainer, but i just think he didnt give off that intimidating aura, like Lance, or the great character portrait and ending for Green, let alone Cynthia, who had both of them. His team is really cool to me, bulky, but the everlasting problem of a concentration of one type was just a killer, still an awesome champion, and he had a lot of involvement in fighting off Team Aqua and Magma, as well as presenting you the worst champion to date imo.

The Unova champions are pretty much polar opposites, on one hand, Alder gets a great character portrait, just like almost every important one in 5th gen, as a caring champion that seeks to counter Team Plasma's effect on the trainers, and one that can actually talk about how he feels sorry about loosing his partner, i found it, not original, but very fitting to the Champion, who did just what he was supposed to do: inspire other trainers. However, there are 2 facts keeping him from going higher, the loss to N being one, just gives him a weak look, not changed by the second fact, in the rematch against the E4, his team is so damn underwhelming, not even from the really varied and cool choices he had in Unova. Mainly it gives you the feeling hes more of a talker than a doer.

Iris, on the other hand, has a horrible portrait for a champion, im sorry but the childish demeanor didnt give me the thought she was a powerful happy go lucky trainer, more she annoyed me, her involvement in the plot is almost null, with the only scene where she shows up she jsut stays w/o doing shit about team neo plasma taking castelia sewers. But, she isnt just worse than the last 2 due to ther team: while she pales in comparison to the shit of a time Lance still gives me, her entire team is quite powerful or bulky in the case of Lapras, not like what Lance had, wich fitted his character completely, more like Iris had those dragons as plush toys that gave an actual challenge in game, (im overrating sorta).

Before goign to Diantha, i must explain properly why Wallace is imo the last champion in my ranking. His character protrait is absolutely null, he literally has 2 scenes b4 the League, neither of which give you a grasp of his personality more than an extremely superficial calm look, did i mention they were 2 scenes? that just tells you he almost plays no role in the plot. Also, others may already mentoned this, but ill stress it: the 8th gym was Water (which also happened in Johto, but Dragonite > Dragonair), 1/3rd of the storyline is surfing, there is no wayyou arent prepared for Wallace, plus, you need an electric type move to sweep his entire team bar Whishcash, and youre given Thunderbolt fairly early.

Now, w/o further rant, ill just go into another rant, why does Diantha suck so much as a champion? Welp, her character is similar if not worse than Wallace, but at least she is given sort of a purpose aside from forcing you into using a repel in a cave with 2 rooms, and she can be judged not so superficially. However, being objective, shes dull, even cocky acting, which doesnt fit her at all, and plot involvement is even LESS than wallace. Her team gives her points (over Wallace) because she actually only used Kalos pokes, and while very limited and half didnt fit her character, still had a pseudo legend and a Mega which reperesent legitimate threats.

Eh, as for the E4, i wasnt really overleveled since i went into it with a medium of Lvl 64, Malva and Siebold were trashed by simply pressing Hydro Pump with my greninja and Thunderbolt with Heliolisk respectively, but Drasna actually managed to damage my team in a sort of way, and i literally lost 5 pokes against Wilkstrom, i got predicted like a scrub :[

Also, i think most people judge the game as easy because of the stupidly overpowered grinding and battle mechanics and pokes in the game. W/o Exp share on, super training and Mega evo, the game is an actual challenge.
 
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She sucked.

By the time I got there everything was In the mid 70's, I haven't played since Ruby so I was flat out guessing what types her and the rest of the Elite Fours pokemon were, her outfit is a joke, and her team was all over the place. Even though I purposely didn't use him through 70% of the game, the fight pretty much went:

"BLAZIKEN SMASH!!! ... Oh, wait, go Hydreigon! I gotta get that lucky coin bonus!"

Seriously, I could write up cooler and more difficult Elite Four teams in 2 minutes, that would be harder, actually make sense, and the AI could actually use.
 
She is okey, at the least is not another dragon user, like Lance.

To be fair, the only character as champion that I dislike is, Lance, as Elite 4 he was strong and prideful challange, but then you play GSC... level 50 Dragonite. What happened man? You used to be my hardest challange on Yellow, I totally whip your ass with a freaking azulmarril, all of your team fall apart with A FREAKING AZULMARRIL.

Later on FR he become a challange again and his rematch was also amaizing... then HG and he was a joke again. In the top of that HE IS NOT THE CHAMPION BY HIS OWN MEANS, he is the champion because Red doesn't take his place as the rightful champion of the Kanto region.

The real problem whit this new Elite 4 and champion is the lack of "Rematch".

"You defeated the elite 4 and the champion, let's celebrate this with a big party on the main city of Kalos" that takes the cake, the whole problem to become the champion in previous games was that really doesn't matter, oddly enough on BW2 where nobody notice you as the champion, but everyone knows that the champion did this, the champion did that.

Now, people reconize you as the champion and refers you as the champion.

I hope they add or unlock the rematch system.
 
She was alright. I actually preferred her staying out of the story. She's the champion and an actress... Not a cop/super hero. Being in the entertainment industry, I'm sure she knew her fair share of psychopaths, I would have ignored Lysandre's ramblings too. Sure, you can think someone is crazy, but very rarely do they actually attempt mass murder/pokecide. I found her lack of "badass" qualities to be refreshing. The notion that certain roles have to be "badass" to be successful is kind of silly to me. Her Lisa Simpson-esque haircut is funny, though, and she looks like she's wearing an assortment of fancy napkins, but.... I can forgive that.

I liked her team well enough as individual Pokemon, though they were really underwhelming in battle. Since I didn't exp share the challenge out of the game, my team was around 62-64 for the fight. She was easier than Siebold and Wikstrom, but a little tougher than the others. MegaGardevoir was kind of a joke and her entire team (except Gardevoir) had an Ice or Water weakness. My main Pokemon were Cloyster and Vaporeon, so she didn't really put up a fight.

As for the Elite 4, I liked them. Drasna was kind of cool in a "hippie aunt from Topanga Canyon" kind of way... She was really different from other Dragon trainers, who I've always thought were kind of cheesy. Her room was nice too. She's definitely a pothead. Malva was kind of unremarkable. Again, the Water/Ice weaknesses made these two fights last about 30 seconds each. Wikstrom was nice and Aegislash was fun to out-wall with Vaporeon. Siebold was the most challenging for my team. Apparently he's a chef? Heh... I liked his dramatic philosophical cooking analogies. With a more balanced team, I would have liked him as Champion just for more of his ranting. This is one case where I would have liked an elite 4 member to be more involved in the story, only because of the potential for many "large ham" moments.
 
At least, she didn't use Simisage, Simisear and Simipour. No champion before has done either, but after playing BW, I'm still fed up with that overhyped trio (and I've played BW2 and now XY since. Guess it'll take years for that grudge to go away).

On the other hand, something is slightly askew when my first positive thought about the champion is "She's not that annoying". She didn't particularly stand out in any way, though she's the only trainer in the entire game (at least by the time you get to her) to use a full team of six Pokémon. That should count positively.

She fell into the same trap as the Elemental Monkey users, though: "Stock Pokémon". Hawlucha is almost a cliché by the time you fight her. Of course she had to use both Tyrantrum and Aurorus. The regional Pseudo-Legendary is also a classic, though excusable as it's become a tradition by now. I'd say the only original Pokémon on her team are Gourgeist and Gardevoir. Only the latter put up any sort of challenge against my team, abruptly ending Aegislash's sweep by OHKOing with Shadow Ball. She proceeded to out-Psychic my Venusaur (who took one hit, but almost brought her down with Sludge Bomb; damage that was Full Restored away immediately after), took out Rotom after a lucky Hydro Pump miss, and Moonblasted my Greninja as it failed to KO with surf. I see that her Mega Pokémon is meant to represent a final challenge, but when it is harder to take down than the rest of the League combined, it kinda feels like she's trying to cheat.

In the end, though, she didn't stand out as too bad, too bland or too monotonous. Her team, while cliché, is somewhat varied, with only two overlapping types between six Pokémon. Still, she has zero personality, zero backstory apart from the occasional mention that she's a movie star, and her music doesn't stand out either. There have been worse champions, there have been better ones. I'd say XY passes on this one, and I think she'll end up being even better in the inevitable "XY2" version(s).


Oh, and the Elite Four where kind of wuzzes in this game. Being only five levels above them, my Pokémon OHKO'd their way through all of them but Drasna's Noivern and Wikstrom's annoying Sturdy Probopass. Then again, I'd probably have struggled a lot more if I didn't know the ins and outs of their types' respective weaknesses, and which Pokémon to use efficiently against them. Newcomers to the Pokémon games would probably find them hard enough, provided they neither use the Exp. Share nor Mega Evolutions.
 
At least, she didn't use Simisage, Simisear and Simipour. No champion before has done either, but after playing BW, I'm still fed up with that overhyped trio (and I've played BW2 and now XY since. Guess it'll take years for that grudge to go away).
Ugh I thought I was the only one.
I dreaded encountering those monkeys, because the minute you encounter one you know the other two will soon follow.
 
Ugh, damn those monkeys. -.- Simipour is the only usable one, and the other two are garbage, just used for Pokédex. And yeah, if Diantha had those three stupid monkeys, I would have cried. -.- But I thought Diantha was a pretty good Champion. She was a teensy bit too easy though. :( Exp. Share-teamwide helped with that. But yeah, I thought she was alright, though I do agree with Cobra; her team was a bit too cliched. Hawlucha was there just to troll the crap out of you with Flying Press, the fossils were predictably gonna be used by the Champion *cough cough* Steven Stone *cough cough*, and every Psuedo-legendary has been used by an E4/final boss/Champion; Lance: Dragonite, Blue: Tyranitar, Drake: Salamence, Steven Stone: Metagross, Cynthia: Garchomp, Ghetsis: Hydreigon, Iris: Salamence, Hydreigon, and Diantha: Goodra. Gardevoir wasn't as predictable, but since they were so into the Mega Evolutions, Diantha was bound to have one. Gourgeist was the only one I can think of that wasn't predictable whatsoever, just because of its' WTF factor. But it was a fun battle nonetheless. :)
 
lol @ everyone who used exp share and/or ev trained and complain at the game being too easy. ffs.

anyway i went in to the elite four with 2 level 60s, a level 61 and a level 62, and did it on my first go (but with lots of hyper potions). i thought the champion was too easy personally, i wasn't particularly troubled. and completely forgot i met her earlier in the story until i read this topic.
 
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