Assault Vest and Doubles

[Joim]

<3
So this didn't exist and I thought it did. Anyways. Assault Vest is an interesting item. When held by a Pokémon, it increases the Sp. Defense stat by 50% but requires the Pokémon to only use damaging attacks.

Competitive Use
The defensive potential of this item is quite huge. However, Assault Vest in Doubles has that huge sacrifice in the loss of Protect or Detect, so it's more suitable for Pokém capable of surviving long enough to make use of their abilities.

Potential Users
You know who's a decent user of Assault Vest? Our beloved Scrafty. Already quite bulky and uses mainly attacks, even though you lose Detect which is a huge hit. You'd need to get rid of enemy tops, too. Is the defensive potential good enough to ditch Detect and keep Scrafty as a support mon that only attacks? Fake Out, Crunch, and Drain Punch are quite useful, allowing for a new moveslot to use Ice Punch, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Smack Down, or Zen Headbutt.

Togekiss. He already has a nice typing, with decent defenses and a nice movepool overall, this small annoying support Pokémon could put Assault Vest to good use, especially with that goddamn flinching Air Slash.

 

[noobcubed]

Kind of a similar idea to Scrafty, but I think Conkeldurr would be good too. He doesn't get Fake Out or Intimidate but he is significantly more powerful in the first place. Scrafty probably wants to use Knock Off over Crunch, it seems the latter is now the go-to Dark-type move.

Scizor might be good too, (although with Steel being nerfed, perma-rain gone and Megazard everywhere his defensive capabilities have taken a hit) and now that he doesn't get a Steel Gem I reckon the way to go is Assault vest rather than Life Orb, which would cut into his bulk, and I can't think of any non-attacking moves he'd want to use besides the occasional Swords Dance or Tailwind (and Protect obviously). A set of Bullet Punch / Bug Bite / Superpower / Feint sounds plausible; am I forgetting any significant moves he picked up in Gen VI?

And Togekiss can't use Roost with Assault Vest; it prevents all non-damaging moves, not just Protect.

 

[Joim]

Yes, I just edited that bit. I'm just half-retarded today :p

Actually a bulky attacker set on Scizor sounds interesting. Feint is a very good move, in my opinion highly underrated. If you manage to keep Fire-types in check, Scizor can take a hit or two and hit quite strongly. Its Bug Bite dents Cresselia seriously too.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

The biggest issue with Assault Vest is that you need to forgo Protect and any support based moves that the bulky Pokemon that benefit most from the increased Spd love to carry.
That said I do think it has use in the doubles metagame so long as the carrier has the desired characteristics to make the most of it. For me, those characteristics are as follows:

• Good Bulk prior to the boost
• Strong offensive capabilities
• A varied movepool with meaningful coverage
• Strong defensive typing

There are a couple of Pokemon that I feel will be able use an Assault Vest appropriately, I'll stick to ones which haven't been mentioned so far though.

Gyarados seems like a really good Pokemon to use it in my opinion Intimidate helps deal with the physical threats on the field then AV helps sponge the special hits 100 Special Defense is by no means lackluster and 125 Attack is more than usable. In terms of movepool Gyarados can carry Stone Edge, Waterfall, Earthquake and Ice fang and a few other moves which isn't too bad. Unfortunately running AV means you drop valuable options like Taunt and Thunderwave.

OR

I think Zygarde and Garchomp could be really interesting with an Assault Vest. Zygarde's move pool might not be quite suitable (rip dragon claw) but both of these dragons have good bulk and a decent typing to utilize it. Garchomp in particular could use it well with a mixed set. I'd run something like Dragon Claw / Earthquake / Fire Blast / Rock Slide (Stone Edge). Neither of the dragons suffer in terms of loss of any support utility but defensive capabilities may be crippled by the loss of a Yache Berry for example.

SandRoom says hi. Just take a second to imagine the bulk, hnnnnnnng.
252+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Rhyperior in Sand: 304-360 (81.9 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I think that calculation alone says a lot about Bulkpherior. Considering this will be used mostly in TR it will likely run max HP too so yeah, panic. Rhypherior also carries EdgeQuake with Megahorn and some water coverage for good measure and certainly won't be anything to be trifled with.


There are more options like Deoxys-a that I can't be bothered to go through but those are just some ideas and thoughts I had about this exciting item.

EDIT:
252+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior in Sand: 228-270 (61.4 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
SOLIDUUUUUU ROCKUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
EDIT 2:
252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior in Sand: 363-432 (83.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Mr. Blinky]

I just thought of this, but I think it will definitely work. I am going to try Assault Vest on Lapras. A set of Scald, Ice Beam, Freeze Dry, and Thunderbolt would be great for my team. I am currently running Scrafty and Mega Manectric on my team so I get plenty of intimidates off, making Lapras a real tank. Freeze Dry is icing on the cake allowing me to hit Rotom W for super effective damage, while taking little from any non Specs set.

Edit: Wow it didn't occur to me that Lapras can't learn Scald. I suppose Hydro Pump instead

 

[bearcanine]

Arcanine and Hitmontop are good users. Intimidate + Assault Vest lets you fire off a Close Combat without sacrificing much natural bulk. Staraptor and Granbull could do this too but probably to a lesser extent, 'cause they're less bulky.

 

[noobcubed]

God I can't believe I forgot about Rhyperior, that thing seems made for Assault Vest (although actually Weakness Policy sounds cool too, Solid Rock is a great ability with which to abuse it).

Having scoured all the Gen VI Pokemons, Chesnaught seems to have the right stat distribution to use it. Whether Chesnaught is actually a good Pokemon... not so convinced.

PS I only just realised how many Gen VI Pokemon there are. Only 69! GameFreak are slacking.

Arcanine and Hitmontop are good users. Intimidate + Assault Vest lets you fire off a Close Combat without sacrificing much natural bulk. Staraptor and Granbull could do this too but probably to a lesser extent, 'cause they're less bulky.

Not really convinced at all by Staraptor and Granbull; Arcanine could be decent but I don't think it's a bulky attacker. Close Combat and Flare Blitz undermine its bulk. It's either a glass cannon, or a supporter (seriously, Intimidate + Will-o-wisp + Helping Hand + Snarl = VERY underrated support capabilities), but not a bulky attacker, which is what the Vest is for. Maybe a mixed set of like Heat Wave / Extreme Speed / Close Combat / Snarl could work with a Vest.

Hitmontop is good. What do you put in that fourth slot over Detect / Wide Guard? Rock Slide I suppose, although Pokebank could give it something better (like it needs it!)

 

[Laga]

PS I only just realised how many Gen VI Pokemon there are. Only 69! GameFreak are slacking.

I don't think GameFreak are slacking. They probably just realized that Pokemon's fanbase is now mostly 13+ and knew that someone would find the number funny.

 

[Darkmalice]

Hitmontop is good. What do you put in that fourth slot over Detect / Wide Guard? Rock Slide I suppose, although Pokebank could give it something better (like it needs it!)

Fake Out, Close Combat, Stone Edge / Rock Slide, Feint. I prefer Stone Edge as Rock Slide is too weak with Hitmontop. Even +252 Rock Slide deals only 89.9 - 106% to Mega Charizard Y, where as Stone Edge will OHKO regardless of your Atk investment.

 

[Deoxymoron]

I actually think Scrafty could be a really interesting user. He's already extremely bulky, and with Assault Vest and Intimidate he essentially has +1 both physically and specially. Fake Out gives him utility, Drain Punch gives him recovery, Knock Off if a great move, and the last slot is basically filler (I'd put Rock Slide, but elemental punches and even Power-Up Punch are good too). I'll definitely be trying this out.

 

[AuraRayquaza]

I must say that after extensive use of the item. my favorote user has got to be rotom w. It only has one weakness - grass, which is mostly special. It now stops ChariYard AND Talonflame in their tracks, always living ChariYard's Solarbeam with NO investment. It also sets off the mindgames, as people will start playing around Will o Wisp when you don't have it. Yes you lose all recovery, but the added bulk makes up for it.

Rotom-Wash @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Electroweb
- Hidden Power [Grass]

This is the set i run. H Pump and tbolt are standard. Electroweb is cool because it is a STAB Icy Wind. Hidden power grass for gastrodons. The evs let me live mega kangaskhans double edge (if anyone uses it) 62.5% of the time and always ohko Lando T out of sun.

 

[chimp]

Haven't played much doubles, but I think Tangrowth could make good use of it to patch up its poor SpD. It still gets Knock Off and regenerator to make it live even longer.
I'm really excited to get into this tier!

 

[BlankZero]

Assault Vest Scrafty is seriously a boss and a half.

Haven't played much doubles, but I think Tangrowth could make good use of it to patch up its poor SpD. It still gets Knock Off and regenerator to make it live even longer.
I'm really excited to get into this tier!

Welcome to Dubz!

Please watch out for Eeveelutions, non-mega Kanto Starters, and teams full of "favorites"

 

[Arcticblast]

Assault Vest Scrafty is seriously a boss and a half.

While Scrafty is a wonderful user of Assault Vest, I've personally found that it's an excellent user of Quick Guard. Assuming your partner isn't Fire weak, it's essentially a double Protect against a Talonflame user, and it's nice in a lot of other situations too. This of course requires a non-Vest item.

Welcome to Dubz!

Please watch out for Eeveelutions, non-mega Kanto Starters, and teams full of "favorites"

ChloroSaur, but otherwise this

 

[BlankZero]

While Scrafty is a wonderful user of Assault Vest, I've personally found that it's an excellent user of Quick Guard. Assuming your partner isn't Fire weak, it's essentially a double Protect against a Talonflame user, and it's nice in a lot of other situations too. This of course requires a non-Vest item.

ChloroSaur, but otherwise this

1. I usually run Talonflame on my own teams and have actually started using SR if I feel it will be an issue :p Lando-T is excellent for dropping its attack, forcing the switch, and setting rocks while it phazes out, limiting its capabilities. With CharY being such a threat as well, SR is actually a good move to use now.

Also, lol ChloroSaur. Only spread is sludge wave.

 

[BLOOD TOTEM]

Also, lol ChloroSaur. Only spread is sludge wave.

It can run EQ to slam the tran.

 

[Retro64]

I've been messing with this item for awhile now and I think it's more suited to singles than doubles. Most of the pokemon that get some benefit from this really miss the option to protect. Rhyperior wants to be able to protect when his partner is setting up trick room.
I can see Torterra making use of this item since his defenses are decently balanced with only his sp def being subpar. Just keep him the hell away from ice types.

 

[Joim]

So, after a lot of games, I can safely say that both Scrafty and Rotom-W are the top users of this item. Scrafty becomes bulky as fuck and if you invest in bulk as well as in attack it will be very hard to wear down. You have a lot of options with it, I'd say that Fake Out, Drain Punch, Knock Off, and Ice Punch are the best options on coverage. Ice Punch nails several Doubles threats you need to cover from, like Garchomp, Landorus-T, and other annoying Grass-types. Rotom-W can use Assault Vest with Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, Electroweb, and a coverage move like Hidden Power Grass, being super bulky and hitting quite hard nonetheless.

 

[Nollan]

So, after a lot of games, I can safely say that both Scrafty and Rotom-W are the top users of this item. Scrafty becomes bulky as fuck and if you invest in bulk as well as in attack it will be very hard to wear down. You have a lot of options with it, I'd say that Fake Out, Drain Punch, Knock Off, and Ice Punch are the best options on coverage. Ice Punch nails several Doubles threats you need to cover from, like Garchomp, Landorus-T, and other annoying Grass-types. Rotom-W can use Assault Vest with Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, Electroweb, and a coverage move like Hidden Power Grass, being super bulky and hitting quite hard nonetheless.

Scrafty can also use either Poison Jab or Stone Edge instead of Ice Punch, depending on what you need/want to hit.

 

[everybody]

I'm thinking of running AV gyara to counter MChar-Y+Chlorosaur lead (and bonus talonflame n ttar), but I'm very unsure of 252 att / 252 spe spread. Are there any up to date EV spreads for gyara?
Also this might be out of subject, but what is a good EV spread for adamant unburden bellydrum+sitrus slurpuff? 252 att / 252 spe spread once again sounds shaky to me in the VGC meta, plus Slurpuff's main job is to just use belly drum for my partner to psych up. So is there an efficiently durable EV spread that can still take advantage of bellydrum+unburden?
Thanks.

 

[Nollan]

If you're going for a hard stop to CharY + Venusaur, I'd recommend AV Goodra, since it is immune to Grass moves (Sleep Powder in particular) thanks to Sap Sipper and can tank everything they can hit it with easily. Its a bit late right now but I'll probably edit in some calculations just to demonstrate how bulky it is.

 

[everybody]

I see why you would mention goodra, but maybe i should have worded it better, but insurance against talonflame and Ttar is pretty useful for a team. Currently I'm running a spread by R Inanimate that goes like 164 HP / 196 Att / 4 Def / 76 SpD / 68 Spe (I don't know what its for :P, but it looks interesting enough). Now using that spread here are some calcs:
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 164 HP / 76 SpD Assault Vest Gyarados: 113-134 (59.1 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 164 HP / 76 SpD Assault Vest Gyarados: 50-59 (26.1 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 164 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 148-175 (77.4 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Tyranitar Rock Slide vs. 164 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 84-102 (43.9 - 53.4%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

This is the worst I can allow gyarados to take. But this is only the worst. Some Venasaurs don't even get a growth boost before hitting him (some don't even run life orb. As for Charizard-Y, he is laughable. Gyarados 2HKOes them with ice fang and waterfall respectively. As for Talonflame, I never fought a CB one around in VGC, but you may never know, and this is without intimidate. As for Ttar, some don't even fully invest in attack so yeah... gyara 2HKOes him too.
Intimidate is always useful too. Thats why I'm thinking of AV gyara. You can show me those damage calcs with goodra and maybe persuade me why I should use him.
Can someone help me with my Slurpuff dilemma?

 

[youngjake93]

That's a level 50 Gen 5 spread I think
252 SpA Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor vs. 164 HP / 76 SpD Gyarados: 154-183 (80.6 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 164 HP / 76 SpD Wacan Berry Gyarados: 156-186 (81.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

 

[everybody]

That's a level 50 Gen 5 spread I think
252 SpA Dragon Gem Latios Draco Meteor vs. 164 HP / 76 SpD Gyarados: 154-183 (80.6 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 164 HP / 76 SpD Wacan Berry Gyarados: 156-186 (81.6 - 97.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

Oh yeah I forgot to mention its lv.50 calcs. But umm...
1) Latios isn't VGC legal now (even dragon gem for now).
2) Thundurus isn't legal, and I have lightning rod support.
I know this is doubles, and not vgc, but the vgc threads feel dead :(

 

[youngjake93]

Oh yeah I forgot to mention its lv.50 calcs. But umm...
1) Latios isn't VGC legal now (even dragon gem for now).
2) Thundurus isn't legal, and I have lightning rod support.
I know this is doubles, and not vgc, but the vgc threads feel dead :(

Yea exactly. That's why you should change the spread lol preferably to one that is not 2hko'd by ttar rock slide