Uberfloat, a badly named, well thought out moveset.

x099x

UberZel (Floatzel) ​

Thanks to Yoshi King for the better name.​

Name: Uber revenge killer
Move 1: Crunch/Bulk Up
Move 2: Pursuit
Move 3: Waterfall
Move 4: Ice Fang
Item: Life Orb/Choice Band
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 140hp/252att/118spd​

[SET COMMENTS]
An incredible revenge killer in Ubers when used in conjunction with Kyogre. With these EVs under rain, it becomes the fastest pokemon in the game, able to easily outspeed Uber powerhouses such as Deoxys-F, Mewtwo, and Darkrai.

This thing can make a decent Rayquaza killer, being able to outspeed an unboosted one without rain and guarantee a OHKO with Ice Fang in return.

Pursuit dooms Deoxys-F the instant Floatzel switches in. It easily outspeeds it and OHKOs with Pursuit whether it switches or not.

Waterfall with double STAB because of rain and a Life Orb boost becomes immensely powerful, being able to 2HKO Mewtwo, Metagross, Mew, and occasionally, Lugia!

Crunch is for pokemon such as Lati twins, Giratina, Kyogre, and Palkia who take less from Ice Fang and resist Waterfall.

Pursuit is mainly for Deoxys-F who will definitely be switching when this thing shows it's face.

[OTHER OPTIONS]

If you want to run a Choice Band set (and guarantee a OHKO with Waterfall against Darkrai and a 2HKO on Lugia, among damaging every other pokemon a little more), Crunch should replace Bulk Up.

Bulk Up can go over Crunch if you don't fear the Lati twins and other pokes who resist Waterfall and take less from Ice Fang (such as Giratina), though, as mentioned by Cooper, isn't really all that useful in Ubers.

[EVs]

If you're really concerned about outspeeding Choice Scarf Deoxys-F (lol) or Ninjask after a Speed Boost (double lol in ubers), you can run 76hp/252att/180spd. Otherwise, stick with the above spread so that you can survive an unboosted Psychic from Mewtwo (only if you're using Choice Band) and finish your 2HKO with Waterfall or Pursuit (if you predict a switch).

[DAMAGE CALCULATIONS]

Life Orb:

42 HP/Min DEF Mewtwo takes 73.28% - 85.95% from it's Waterfall under rain, a comfortable 2HKO.

Min HP/Min DEF Darkrai takes 94.66% - 111.03% from Waterfall under rain. Choice Band guarantees a OHKO.

Min HP/Min DEF Latias takes 64.45% - 75.75% from Ice Fang

Min HP/Min DEF Latios takes 70.76% - 83.39% from Ice Fang

Max HP/16 DEF Metagross takes 52.75% - 62.09% from Waterfall under rain

Min HP/Min DEF Latios takes 86.71% - 101.99% from Crunch

Min HP/Min DEF Latias takes 79.07% - 92.69% from Crunch

Max HP/36 DEF Mew takes 62.76% - 73.90% switching out on Pursuit

Max HP/36 DEF Mew takes 68.62% - 80.94% from Waterfall under rain

Max HP/52 DEF Lugia takes 44.95% - 52.88% from Waterfall under rain

36 HP/Min DEF Rayquaza takes 107.78% - 126.67% from Ice Fang

Min HP/Min DEF Ho-Oh takes 150.42% - 177.05% from Waterfall under rain

Max HP/Min DEF Kyogre takes 29.46% - 34.65% from Crunch

38 HP/Min DEF Palkia takes 33.03% - 38.79% from Crunch

Max HP/80 DEF Deoxys-L takes 51.32% - 60.20% from Waterfall under rain (a guaranteed 2HKO even with Life Orb!)

Choice Band:

38/Min DEF Palkia takes 37.88% - 44.55% from Crunch

Max HP/Min DEF Kyogre takes 33.66% - 39.60% from Crunch

Max HP/80 DEF Deoxys-L takes 58.55% - 68.75% from Waterfall under rain!!


Against Floatzel:

140 HP/Min DEF Floatzel takes 65.03% - 76.59% from an unboosted max Attack, Adamant Rayquaza Extremespeed

140 HP/Min DEF Floatzel takes 63.87% - 75.14% from a 232 Attack, Adamant CB Metagross Meteor Mash

140 HP/Min DEF Floatzel takes 58.96% - 69.36% from a Naive 4 ATT Deoxys-F Extremespeed

140 HP/Min DEF Floatzel takes 68.21% - 80.06% from a Max Attack, neutral Life Orb Deoxys-F Extremespeed

Discuss.
 
I don't even know which Pokemon you're actually talking about. I assume Floatzel? I didn't see you post the actual Pokemon anywhere.

From the damage calcs, that seems to be incredibly effective. Of course someone would need to put it to use (And honestly it would be great to see someone using Floatzel, I haven't seen it at all yet in Warstories/RMTs) but I can see it doing very well.
 
Let me run some right now. Yeah, I apoligize for the corny name, I would edit it if I could >_>

Edit: Unfortunately this thing's got nothing on Giratina, but in reality it probably shouldn't be staying in due to the fact that it will be getting burned.

Max HP/Max DEF Impish Giratina takes 27.78% - 32.54% from Crunch (which is the most ideal attack against Giratina).


Choice Band calculations:

Max HP/Max DEF Impish Giratina takes 31.75% - 37.30% from Crunch, not even a guaranteed 3HKO.
 
Yoshi King said:
I don't even know which Pokemon you're actually talking about. I assume Floatzel? I didn't see you post the actual Pokemon anywhere.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this confused me as well. I got from the "Uberfloat" that you MIGHT be talking about Floatzel, but I had to read down to the third paragraph to actually see the name mentioned anywhere.

I sort of like this set. Baton Pass is useless, however, seeing as how your defenses aren't nearly good enough to risk taking a hit, and also that nothing in Ubers besides Metagross and Deoxys-F really can use an attack boost. Bulk Up is a bit of a stretch for the same reasons. So many of the threats you talk about are easy 2HKOs, but because of Floatzel's frailness, it would be a much better use of it's time to attack on the switch, unless of course the attack boost will give you the OHKO.

Can you give damage calculations for some of the more defensive pokemon in Ubers? Most of what you've told us is physical attack against sweeper, but what about the more defensive pokemon, like Giratina, Deoxys-E, or even Kyogre and Palkia?
 
could you run calculations on priority moves like extreme speed deoxys. See if floatzel can take the hit the OHKO with pursuit
 
x099x said:
Let me run some right now. Yeah, I apoligize for the corny name, I would edit it if I could >_>

Edit: Unfortunately this thing's got nothing on Giratina, but in reality it probably shouldn't be staying in due to the fact that it will be getting burned.

Max HP/Max DEF Impish Giratina takes 27.78% - 32.54% from Crunch (which is the most ideal attack against Giratina).


Choice Band calculations:

Max HP/Max DEF Impish Giratina takes 31.75% - 37.30% from Crunch, not even a guaranteed 3HKO.
Click to expand...

Ouch, even with the super-effectiveness of Crunch, Floatzel's gonna get walled hardcore. What about Ice Fang? Probably less, I assume... I think Crunch has a higher base damage.

So far that means Uberfloat (maybe UberZel?) has 1 counter to it. What about using Crunch on Mew?
 
x099x said:
This thing can make a decent Rayquaza killer, being able to outspeed an unboosted one without rain and guarantee a OHKO with Ice Fang in return.
Click to expand...
It really can't...how are you going to switch in? Come in on a Dragon Dance and it outspeeds you. Come in on anything else and it will destroy you.
 
Max HP/Min DEF Kyogre takes 29.46% - 34.65% from Crunch

38 HP/Min DEF Palkia takes 33.03% - 38.79% from Crunch

Max HP/80 DEF Deoxys-L takes 51.32% - 60.20% from Waterfall under rain (a guaranteed 2HKO even with Life Orb!)

Choice Band Calculations:

38/Min DEF Palkia takes 37.88% - 44.55% from Crunch

Max HP/Min DEF Kyogre takes 33.66% - 39.60% from Crunch

Max HP/80 DEF Deoxys-L takes 58.55% - 68.75% from Waterfall under rain!!

Surgo said:
It really can't...how are you going to switch in? Come in on a Dragon Dance and it outspeeds you. Come in on anything else and it will destroy you.
Click to expand...

This is true, but as I've said before, this is more of a revenge killer than a 'counter'. Lets say you have a pokemon that has the ability to OHKO Rayquaza, but are slower than it. If Rayquaza decides to DD, you kill it. If it decides to attack and KOs you, you send in Floatzel which will have Rayquaza running with it's tail between it's legs. Then again, I probably just described any revenge killer, but you get the point.

Yoshi King said:
What about using Crunch on Mew?
Click to expand...

As I described in the first post, Waterfall will always do more damage than Crunch on Mew, unless there is no rain, which even then, Crunch is a guaranteed 2HKO.
 
Surgo said:
It really can't...how are you going to switch in? Come in on a Dragon Dance and it outspeeds you. Come in on anything else and it will destroy you.
Click to expand...

Well, he did say Uber Revenge Killer.... Rayquaza comes in on anything with less than 50%, locks itself into Outrage, UberZel (better name, thanks Yoshi King) Fangs it.

This thing does a lot of damage to a lot of things. I'm impressed. If I could pester you for one more damage calc, try Uber Blissey, possibly your biggest threat. If you can't OHKO it and you get T-Waved, Floatzel is useless to you.
 
x099x said:
As I described in the first post, Waterfall will always do more damage than Crunch on Mew, unless there is no rain, which even then, Crunch is a guaranteed 2HKO.
Click to expand...

Ack, my mistake, sorry. I was skimming through part of the analysis and must've missed that.

Cooper said:
This thing does a lot of damage to a lot of things. I'm impressed. If I could pester you for one more damage calc, try Uber Blissey, possibly your biggest threat. If you can't OHKO it and you get T-Waved, Floatzel is useless to you.
Click to expand...

Agreed, this does seem to be incredibly effective on a lot of threats. Rain is pretty much a requirement though.

And yeah, confirmation needed on Blissey. Without a super-effective attack, Uberzel (thanks for the props Cooper) is going to be crippled and rendered useless.
 
2HKOing with Floatzel in Ubers seems... risky, no? I think it's going to die in one hit from any Uber...
 
148 HP/Max DEF Bold Blissey takes 64.10% - 75.29% from a Waterfall under rain

Choice Band:

148 HP/Max DEF Bold Blissey takes 73.40% - 86.34% from a Waterfall under rain

Firestorm said:
2HKOing with Floatzel in Ubers seems... risky, no? I think it's going to die in one hit from any Uber...
Click to expand...

The purpose of this Floatzel set is a revenge killer.. with the EVs provided and Choice Band, Floatzel can trap Deoxys-F (and easily OHKO with Pursuit whether it switches it out or not), OHKO Darkrai, survive an unboosted Psychic from Mewtwo and 2HKO it in return, and OHKO Rayquaza.

140 HP/Min DEF Floatzel (set above) takes 58.96% - 69.36% from a Naive 4 ATT Deoxys-F Extremespeed
 
Problem I see is that there's no way Floatzel survives attacks from these Pokemon it 2HKOs. It's only worthwhile if it's revenging in one hit which it seems it can only do to Rayquaza and Ho-oH comfortable. Darkrai and Latios, maybe. This makes it very limited since one of the only ones it's guaranteed OHKO doesn't show up in ubers... ever and the other can still use priority Extremespeed if it isn't locked into an Outrage.
 
140 HP/Min DEF Floatzel takes 65.03% - 76.59% from an unboosted max Attack, Adamant Rayquaza Extremespeed.

140 HP/Min DEF Floatzel takes 63.87% - 75.14% from a 232 Attack, Adamant CB Metagross Meteor Mash
 
What about some of your other 2HKOs? I'm sorry, I'm not entirely familiar with the ubers metagame, but it really seems to me like Floatzel has trouble taking a hit from, say, Mewtwo or the Lati twins or any number of other ubers threats.
 
weeeeeeeird

But how useful is it to be able to survive an unboosted Mewtwo? As far as I'm aware, the basic stance on Mewtwo is: You need to be able to kill it before it can setup. If you're going to be relying on Floatzel to kill it, then you'd have to switch in on a Calm Mind at which point we're no longer dealing with an unboosted Psychic. That, or you let whatever is in there try and weaken it I suppose.

But I'm delving into theorycraft right now.
 
What you're describing is a Mewtwo counter, not a revenge killer. A revenge killer is a pokemon who you switch in after one killed yours prior to that, and you 'revenge kill them'. Now if this is, in fact, a boosted Mewtwo, then obviously Floatzel is not the proper switchin for it, but if it is unboosted, then you switch Floatzel in.

It's much like a scenario where a pokemon such as Medicham gets a speed boost and becomes faster than Dugtrio, a common revenge killer. The fact that Dugtrio is no longer a good switchin to this Medicham due to it's gained speed and ability to OHKO doesn't change Dugtrio's stance as a revenge killer.

Did that make any sense at all? :doom:

Anyways, thanks for all the concerns and criticism, really, please keep them coming so I can further improve this moveset.
 
x099x, I enjoyed this thread. It seems rather well thoughtout and you have a lot of information in your front page (namely damage calculations speak a lot). The OHKO on Deoxys-F with Pursuit is really awesome. Unfortunately, I do think besides Pursuit, it's just an easy switch in for Palkia/Kyogre/Dialga who can do a lot more damage than Floatzel can ;[ You wont always predict Crunch and Waterfall will do ass

Just so you know, calculating Max HP/Min Def Blissey isn't really worthwhile...
 
chaos said:
x099x, I enjoyed this thread. It seems rather well thoughtout and you have a lot of information in your front page (namely damage calculations speak a lot). The OHKO on Deoxys-F with Pursuit is really awesome. Unfortunately, I do think besides Pursuit, it's just an easy switch in for Palkia/Kyogre/Dialga who can do a lot more damage than Floatzel can ;[ You wont always predict Crunch and Waterfall will do ass

Just so you know, calculating Max HP/Min Def Blissey isn't really worthwhile...
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot, that means a lot coming from a mod. I do agree with you, Palkia, Kyogre, and Dialga will definitely pose a problem (Dialga walls it the most :justin:). This idea seemed a lot better when I had forgotten that Rayquaza negates rain and under rain, this bugger could outspeed it after two DDs.

However, I still think it can work as somewhat of a surprise factor, and I was quite satisfied with the kind of damage it can do to the likes of Lugia and Deoxys-L (though you don't see much of Deoxys-L anymore). OHKO on Darkrai is kind of nice too, considering if you don't have a proper counter for it it can make a mess of your team.

Another thing I was thinking is that people might be thinking that they can OHKO with Extremespeed from their Rayquaza, only for UberZel to survive and OHKO it with Ice Fang. Though that might kind of go the way Chainchomp did if it gets popular at all.

I'll be trying this on an Ubers team and see how much success I can get with it. If anything it's a marvelous Deoxys-F counter.
 
FlUbber seems like a way better name!

I love the fact that you have a found a useful Ubers set for a Pokemon that is barely seen in OU. Good job!
 
I think that this should ONLY be used with Choice Band, as EV's and Swift Swim will make it fast enough, and while those calcs are impressive, it seems it NEEDS the extra ATK to make it worthwhile.
 
Choice Band right now seems more viable due to the fact that you can surivive an unboosted Mewtwo psychic and 2HKO it in return (since you won't be taking Life Orb damage), and it can also OHKO Darkrai, who would otherwise put you to sleep.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top