Are we really nitpicking the natural selection at play in Pokemon games? Pretty much everything in these games is an abomination to evolutionary theory.
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Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII
- Thread starter DHR-107
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I see no problem with more Charizards...
That said we've seen a Charizard and its normal. I'm going to guess if a Pokemon has an Alolan version we'll only see that version in Alola, otherwise there would be no point calling it an Alolan version.
And we still have the Captains and Kahuna to act as bosses which the Gym Leaders did.
Maybe its a cool flame now.
What I meant was that Ninetales is Mystic, but not Mystic enough to be a Psychic Type and I don't see a reason for it to be a Ghost type.
I can't really argue with Ice Types being more comfortable than Fire Type, but Fire still seems like it would still be comfortable.
I take back what I said about not seeing a reason for it to be a Ghost Type.
Yes, we are. I have a habit of noticing things that don't make sense. (I even notice things in my dreams while I'm dreaming.)
It's Charizard. That thing plays by its own rules when it comes to Nintendo decisions. Two MEvos. Still a Smash character. Playable in Pokken. Only Kanto starter that was a cover Pokémon in Japan and the rest of the world...
Fire-type Pokémon would be comfortable in Icy places? Sure would. But they probably wouldn't be beneficial to the environment around them, since their heat could thaw ice and make avalanches happen.
Also, to keep a fire burning, a Pokémon's body would probably need more calories than to be alive being an ice-type. In the cold climates, it would have to eat a lot more than in hot, so as to keep the fire alive, and that would also be harmful for the environment, since it's an alien species eating more than native species, and that could lead to extinction of some other species. If this fire-type Pokémon learned how to diminish the temperature of their inner flame in order to better adapt to their new environment, then it would really become a new branch of the same species.
I see these different forms as different breeds of cats or dogs. All of them have the same scientific name, they are technically the same animal, but inbreeding and adaptation to different places made them unique.
Also, to keep a fire burning, a Pokémon's body would probably need more calories than to be alive being an ice-type. In the cold climates, it would have to eat a lot more than in hot, so as to keep the fire alive, and that would also be harmful for the environment, since it's an alien species eating more than native species, and that could lead to extinction of some other species. If this fire-type Pokémon learned how to diminish the temperature of their inner flame in order to better adapt to their new environment, then it would really become a new branch of the same species.
I see these different forms as different breeds of cats or dogs. All of them have the same scientific name, they are technically the same animal, but inbreeding and adaptation to different places made them unique.
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The dex entries are all false. If you remember that then everything makes sense. Except how the heck does fairy resist bug if anything they should be weak to bugs.
Didn't some plague fairies commanded armies of cockroaches and flies? I remember a tale of a fairy ordering a bunch of flies to attack horses so carriages fell from a cliff and "it" could feed from the corpses of the humans more easily.
The Totem Pokemon interest my more than they should. They feel like an attempt to have non-trainer boss battles. And I hope you cannot catch them, that the totem state means you actually have to beat them. The only times they've done this previously in the series were the Ghost Marowak in RGBY/FRLG and the Black/White Kyurem battle in B2W2.
They've made boss-like wild pokemon battles before. The three Electrode in the Johto Team Rocket Hideout, the Hypno in Berry Forest on the Sevii Islands, and other examples. Unlike stuff like Snorlax, Sudowoodo, or any Legendary Pokemon, they are not rare or hard to obtain species, so there is little incentive to catch them, but the fact is you can still catch them, trivializing the whole thing. With a Quick Ball(introduced in Gen IV) or a Critical Capture(Introduced in Gen V), you don't even have to throw out a single attack.
With Totem Pokemon, on top of being larger they also seem to get a stat boost from being a Totem, and they can summon minions like many RPG bosses.
While most people have focused on other, more flashier things in the new trailer, I feel like totem pokemon will be an interesting mechanic if done right.
They've made boss-like wild pokemon battles before. The three Electrode in the Johto Team Rocket Hideout, the Hypno in Berry Forest on the Sevii Islands, and other examples. Unlike stuff like Snorlax, Sudowoodo, or any Legendary Pokemon, they are not rare or hard to obtain species, so there is little incentive to catch them, but the fact is you can still catch them, trivializing the whole thing. With a Quick Ball(introduced in Gen IV) or a Critical Capture(Introduced in Gen V), you don't even have to throw out a single attack.
With Totem Pokemon, on top of being larger they also seem to get a stat boost from being a Totem, and they can summon minions like many RPG bosses.
While most people have focused on other, more flashier things in the new trailer, I feel like totem pokemon will be an interesting mechanic if done right.
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On the topic of Vulpix becoming an Ice-type when it could have stayed Fire-type just fine in the cold, I had a theory yesterday that I'd like to share here: Vulpix, being a Fire-type, can live just fine in the cold, but it needs the assistance of shelter. Careless Vulpix who used their fire willy nilly end up burning their igloo-like dens (probably built by the Sandshrew who were adapting as well) and either ended up melting their entire homes or causing ice to melt water on them all the time. This put these kind of Vulpix in harsh situations in which they ended up dying in the cold. Vulpix that were rewarded with patience survived and bred. Through years of not using their fire, it became a liability and a way to beg for bad luck, so they forgo the type completely and become Ice types. Ninetales now focus more on their supernatural abilities and thus became Fairy type too.
Yeah totem bosses should be like sort of sacred or something like that, catching them would make them lose all of its upstanding status and respect we could have lol
Now that i think about it that's more or less what happens with legendaries i guess
Um..nope:
Wow, I don't know how I completely forgot about the ur example of wild boss fights. Edited my last post to reflect that.
1st gen was quite weird, being the first games. Blatant murder, vengeful ghosts, bizzarre pokedex entries referencing real world animals and places, drunk guy passed out on the ground, ect.
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I go away on vacation for the weekend, and what do I come back to but another huge load of news! Alright, let's just take this one item at a time.
Alola Formes
General idea:
Chalk this one up with Megas and Z-moves on the board nobody expected them to do! I love the concept. Even though Mega Evolution was another way to breathe new life into old Pokemon, I didn't like how it dominated the metagame and it made it more a question of whose Mega goes down first. With this, though, I can easily see both the originals and the new Formes being equally relevant.
Exeggutor:
When I first saw this guy, it looked familiar for some reason. It was awhile before I realized it reminded me of this:
If anyone doesn't recognize this, it's the Weird Mushroom from Super Mario Maker. It makes Mario really tall and gangly, and lets him jump roughly double the normal height. That said, I'll echo everyone else's sentiments here and say I love just how goofy it looks. Also... Grass/Dragon? Definitely didn't see that one coming.
Vulpix and Ninetales:
These guys are awesome. Ice/Fairy is a really interesting typing (along with, of course, being a huge "f**k you" to Dragons). I definitely think that their official art doesn't do them justice, and that they look a lot better in-game. I also love how Alola Vulpix/Ninetales is sort of the opposite of their regular Formes, just in the sense that one is Fire-type and the other is Ice.
However, this brings up an interesting point: We, on Smogon, have the Evasion Abilities Clause, which bans Snow Cloak and Sand Veil. Pokemon that can use these Abilities are forced to use alternatives instead. However, what if a Pokemon's only ability is Snow Cloak or Sand Veil? Would we have to ban the entire Pokemon then?
Sandshrew and Sandslash:
Sandshrew and Sandslash have really cool-looking alternate Formes. Unfortunately, I just can't see that translating into being good at battle. Ice/Steel is an awful defensive typing (Hello 4x Fire and Fighting weaknesses!), and the lore outright states that they're slower than regular Sandshrew and Sandslash. Seriously, GF, stop trying to make Defensive Ice-types happen. They're not going to happen.
Z moves
I'm a little less sure for these ones. My fear is, once again, that all these new battle gimmicks will start to pile up, and then eventually we'll have half a dozen ways to supercharge Pokemon during battle. However, Z moves are confirmed to be a once-per-battle effect, so as long as GF doesn't make them ridiculously powerful (I can see them being roughly 150 BP), it'll add another interesting mechanic to competitive.
Also, who the hell thought Bloom Doom was a good name.
New Pokemon
Alright, let's take these one at a time, as always...
Oricorio
This is going to be a fun bird, for sure. Out of the 4 Formes, I'm definitely leaning towards the Ghost one. The Fire one is okay as well, but the other two don't look like they'd actually be able to fly. Its ability is just going to be so awesome - I can definitely see it being paired with a Quiver Dance or Dragon Dance user in Doubles, depending on whether it's Physically or Specially oriented. The ability to punish opposing boosters could also be pretty interesting.
Minior
Not sold on the design, honestly. It just looks really awkward. However, the "mini" in its name suggests that it will evolve, so there's still hope! Shields Down is a really interesting ability, and I can see Minior (or its evo) being very powerful if it gets Belly Drum. Even if it doesn't, its good Defensive stats before breaking the shield should allow it to tank a hit and activate a Pinch Berry, so I can see Minior/evo being a good switch-in-and-force-out mon.
Gumshoos
You guys have done the Trump joke to death by now, but that's not the only thing I can make fun of, pal!
Formantis and Lurantis
Alright, these guys I am excited about. I do believe that they might be the fast, Physically-based Grass-type Pokemon I've been wishing for since BW. Their designs are awesome, and I love their concept of mimicking a Praying Mantis (which, incidentally, is why they're not part Bug). The only thing I don't like about them is Luranits's striped pink pants... I really see no reason why any Pokemon should be condemned to have such an atrocity.
Mudbray
I don't get why people are hating on Mudbray - it's a cute pre-evolution for the horse whose name currently eludes me! Actually, come to think of it, I believe this is the first Donkey Pokemon we've ever had, so that's also pretty cool. Especially since I really love donkeys.
Riding Pokemon
Alright, I'm exited about this. If my intuition is correct (which it seldom is, but whatever), this means two things: One, the removal of required HMs to progress, and two, the ability to ride Pokemon wherever you want (within reason). Needless to say, I am seriously hyped about this - at last we'll actually be able to have a full team of six without needing to swap someone out for an HM Slave or put Rock Smash on one of your team members!
The Island Challenge
At last, the big thing. It's all but confirmed that Gyms will not be in the game - instead, we'll be taking on these Island Challenges. If anyone remembers Olive Jungle's 4 challenges from Ranger 1, I can see them working like that, though obviously on a larger scale. I'm really happy that they're finally breaking away from the 8 Gym formula to try something new!
I've got a theory, actually: They're replacing Gym Leaders with Totem Pokemon so that we can no longer complain about the Leaders having terrible teams - after all, they're just Pokemon, so they don't know anything about teambuilding!
Alola Formes
General idea:
Chalk this one up with Megas and Z-moves on the board nobody expected them to do! I love the concept. Even though Mega Evolution was another way to breathe new life into old Pokemon, I didn't like how it dominated the metagame and it made it more a question of whose Mega goes down first. With this, though, I can easily see both the originals and the new Formes being equally relevant.
Exeggutor:
When I first saw this guy, it looked familiar for some reason. It was awhile before I realized it reminded me of this:
If anyone doesn't recognize this, it's the Weird Mushroom from Super Mario Maker. It makes Mario really tall and gangly, and lets him jump roughly double the normal height. That said, I'll echo everyone else's sentiments here and say I love just how goofy it looks. Also... Grass/Dragon? Definitely didn't see that one coming.
Vulpix and Ninetales:
These guys are awesome. Ice/Fairy is a really interesting typing (along with, of course, being a huge "f**k you" to Dragons). I definitely think that their official art doesn't do them justice, and that they look a lot better in-game. I also love how Alola Vulpix/Ninetales is sort of the opposite of their regular Formes, just in the sense that one is Fire-type and the other is Ice.
However, this brings up an interesting point: We, on Smogon, have the Evasion Abilities Clause, which bans Snow Cloak and Sand Veil. Pokemon that can use these Abilities are forced to use alternatives instead. However, what if a Pokemon's only ability is Snow Cloak or Sand Veil? Would we have to ban the entire Pokemon then?
Sandshrew and Sandslash:
Sandshrew and Sandslash have really cool-looking alternate Formes. Unfortunately, I just can't see that translating into being good at battle. Ice/Steel is an awful defensive typing (Hello 4x Fire and Fighting weaknesses!), and the lore outright states that they're slower than regular Sandshrew and Sandslash. Seriously, GF, stop trying to make Defensive Ice-types happen. They're not going to happen.
Z moves
I'm a little less sure for these ones. My fear is, once again, that all these new battle gimmicks will start to pile up, and then eventually we'll have half a dozen ways to supercharge Pokemon during battle. However, Z moves are confirmed to be a once-per-battle effect, so as long as GF doesn't make them ridiculously powerful (I can see them being roughly 150 BP), it'll add another interesting mechanic to competitive.
Also, who the hell thought Bloom Doom was a good name.
New Pokemon
Alright, let's take these one at a time, as always...
Oricorio
This is going to be a fun bird, for sure. Out of the 4 Formes, I'm definitely leaning towards the Ghost one. The Fire one is okay as well, but the other two don't look like they'd actually be able to fly. Its ability is just going to be so awesome - I can definitely see it being paired with a Quiver Dance or Dragon Dance user in Doubles, depending on whether it's Physically or Specially oriented. The ability to punish opposing boosters could also be pretty interesting.
Minior
Not sold on the design, honestly. It just looks really awkward. However, the "mini" in its name suggests that it will evolve, so there's still hope! Shields Down is a really interesting ability, and I can see Minior (or its evo) being very powerful if it gets Belly Drum. Even if it doesn't, its good Defensive stats before breaking the shield should allow it to tank a hit and activate a Pinch Berry, so I can see Minior/evo being a good switch-in-and-force-out mon.
Gumshoos
You guys have done the Trump joke to death by now, but that's not the only thing I can make fun of, pal!
Formantis and Lurantis
Alright, these guys I am excited about. I do believe that they might be the fast, Physically-based Grass-type Pokemon I've been wishing for since BW. Their designs are awesome, and I love their concept of mimicking a Praying Mantis (which, incidentally, is why they're not part Bug). The only thing I don't like about them is Luranits's striped pink pants... I really see no reason why any Pokemon should be condemned to have such an atrocity.
Mudbray
I don't get why people are hating on Mudbray - it's a cute pre-evolution for the horse whose name currently eludes me! Actually, come to think of it, I believe this is the first Donkey Pokemon we've ever had, so that's also pretty cool. Especially since I really love donkeys.
Riding Pokemon
Alright, I'm exited about this. If my intuition is correct (which it seldom is, but whatever), this means two things: One, the removal of required HMs to progress, and two, the ability to ride Pokemon wherever you want (within reason). Needless to say, I am seriously hyped about this - at last we'll actually be able to have a full team of six without needing to swap someone out for an HM Slave or put Rock Smash on one of your team members!
The Island Challenge
At last, the big thing. It's all but confirmed that Gyms will not be in the game - instead, we'll be taking on these Island Challenges. If anyone remembers Olive Jungle's 4 challenges from Ranger 1, I can see them working like that, though obviously on a larger scale. I'm really happy that they're finally breaking away from the 8 Gym formula to try something new!
I've got a theory, actually: They're replacing Gym Leaders with Totem Pokemon so that we can no longer complain about the Leaders having terrible teams - after all, they're just Pokemon, so they don't know anything about teambuilding!
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Um...nope:
I think what Nelson Tangela meant was Charizard was the Kanto Starter used for both Gen I's initial release, Japan using Venusaur and US using Blastoise (and never getting Venusaur). As for Gen I overall Charizard and Blastoise would be tied, but if you include the remakes then Charizard comes out ahead as this time there was no WaterBlue for Blastoise. So:
Venusaur: Japanese Green, LeafGreen = 2
Blastoise: Japanese Blue, International Blue = 2
Charizard: Japanese Red, International Red, FireRed = 3
lucariomaster2 Froslass is ineligible in DPPt because Sand Veil and Snow Cloak are now banned in gen 4. Impossible to say how future approaches would go. Hope that helps
I always felt gyms were more of a structure than fun in themselves, so as long as there's enough battling and things to do in each area I won't mind.
I always felt gyms were more of a structure than fun in themselves, so as long as there's enough battling and things to do in each area I won't mind.
That was (and still is) Generation V only. When the weather summoning abilities were nerfed in X and Y, those abilities were unbanned.
Gym is just a concept, a word. It's no different from mountain, lake or tree. I've seen (not necesarily here but in other forums) people complaining about the lack of gyms in the Alola region, and I say, again: gyms are just a concept, a word. It's no different from mountains, lakes or trees. What matters is not the gym itself, is the purpose of the gym, what you do before reaching the gym, how long it takes and how deep (talking about variation, about fun), how entertaining the path is. I don't care if the boss (the "Gym Leader") is waiting for me inside a gym, in the top of a mountain or standing in a rock, floating in the middle of a ancient lake. The number of gyms don't say anything either. "OMG, Alola region only have 4 challenges, other Pokémon games have 8 Gym Leaders". Ok. So we are talking about the value of a raw number without consideration of nothing more. Fine. Just compare the time you spend, the time you enjoy, the events in which you participate across the Johto Region in GSC, and then in the 8 Gyms of Kanto (in GSC too). 10-14 hours vs roughly 3 hours. Or better, compare the Kanto from GSC with the Kanto from RGBY. There are 8 Gym Leaders in both, but we all know what is the difference.
So, what is the problem with the Alola Region and its 4 challenges, trials or whatever you call it, if you spend 5 hours from one challenge to another because the region is rich in content, instead of 2 hours from gym to gym in a region where nothingness predominates.
So, what is the problem with the Alola Region and its 4 challenges, trials or whatever you call it, if you spend 5 hours from one challenge to another because the region is rich in content, instead of 2 hours from gym to gym in a region where nothingness predominates.
Personally i always start gettng sort of bored by half of the game (the 4th or 5th gym) and i drop the games for some weeks (or months), then comeback and finish. Of course there are some exception but thats pretty much what happens every time i play a videogame (actually if its not pokemon i dont even come back to finish the game lol).
My point is, gym system is great and i love it, but just as it was said before, 4 challenges instead of 8 its not neccesarily bad and it could be refreshing and even funnier. Also, in any case it probably would be something just for this games i think, so its ok for some variation.
My point is, gym system is great and i love it, but just as it was said before, 4 challenges instead of 8 its not neccesarily bad and it could be refreshing and even funnier. Also, in any case it probably would be something just for this games i think, so its ok for some variation.
I keep saying this but Alola does not have only 4 challenges. Read this again: http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/the-rite-of-the-island-challenge/ Pay attention to this especially:
"The final trial on each island is called the grand trial. It is a Pokémon battle against the kahuna who leads that island. If a trial-goer succeeds in clearing this grand trial, he or she will be publicly recognized as having cleared all of the island’s trials and can move on to the next island."
"The final trial on each island is called the grand trial. It is a Pokémon battle against the kahuna who leads that island. If a trial-goer succeeds in clearing this grand trial, he or she will be publicly recognized as having cleared all of the island’s trials and can move on to the next island."
You are wrong, gym is a staple, an institution.
In gaming it means it gives the designers a place where several trainers and puzzles can be placed without the need of them clashing with the overworld in a functional way. They also function as power benchmarks and roadblocks for level progression, a good thing in any game, look at Johto being garbage after the 4th gym, this happens when you overcompensate freedom of choice and make a mechanic suffer.
This is the grip many players have with this movement of the gym to outdoor areas, the puzzles might drag into shit mini games and other stuff aside from the franchise core, and that is a realistic gripe.
It's a legitimate concern. While I'm welcoming of it and appreciate GF's attempt to try something different, there's always the chance this could go bad. The fact that battling is still involved makes me happy though, and hopefully the island people (idk what they're called) have personality and are interesting, because none of gen 6's gym leaders stood out to me, aside from Clemont. But that's just because he's prominent in the anime. While it's definitely too early to judge, I understand people's concerns, and I too am worried this may go wrong. Gyms are a staple of the franchise, after all, and this is a big risk. Hopefully, it pays off.
Gym is just a fancier way of saying naked.
Trials and Challenges are the core of any game.
Trials and Challenges are the core of any game.
Honestly, Wulfric gym is one of the best in the franchise, in what has been rather mediocre gym puzzles for the ice gyms. Seriously only Brycen stands out aside from him, Grant and Ramos gyms are also memorable, while not as amazing as revisited gen 6 Wallace puzzle, since they displayed an animation jump with the perceptions of the game visuals. Valerie has to be the best gym in the franchise in the conceptual and aesthetic way despite being just another warp panel puzzle, heck it even tops Fantina in platinum and Burgh, Skyla as well as fist pumping dragons in Gen 5(not including Elesa in BW and B2W2 since her gym is amazing but the navigation is narrow, or Clay while awesome it had too little freedom).
Let's be honest, gen 5 and 6 had pretty much the top ten in puzzles with only a runner up from gen 4.
Snagged this from a video Shofu posted, should get us up to date with all the current "valid" leaks.
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