Is Blissey truly gamebreaking?

Jumpman16 said:
If your team isn't built with the acknowledgment of the most overused pokemon in the game and doesn't have a way of exploiting it in some way, it isn't a good team, case closed.

We (or at least I) urge our competitive battlers to think about Blissey in the same way, and relish the many, MANY opportunities there are to use her presence against those who use and rely upon her.
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Quoted just for emphasis. It's always better to play your opponent than to try and cover everything. You're bound to win more if your team is designed to counter another person's team. If Blissey shows up almost half the time and you have a surefire counter then you've got an element of a counter team for about half the teams out there.

EDIT: And all this talk about being able to counter the hard hitting physical attackers so we shouldn't need Blissey to counter hard hitting special attackers is kind of silly. Part of the reason why teams can deal with physical attackers without using a physical defense counterpart to Blissey is because Blissey gives teams the luxury to use a combination of defensive pokemon of different types to abuse resistances and immunities. With Blissey you don't have to worry about special attacks as much and can then focus your team on the physical end. I'm not saying it's impossible to make a team without Blissey or anything but without it the game changes significantly.
 
ChouToshio said:
Yeah, and just look at how much trouble people have to go to try to handle all the physical sweepers in the game. Imagine if everyone had to work to have "specific tanks/walls" to cover all the physical AND all the special.
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That would simply mean that the metagame would become a tad more offensive. If you don't have a surefire way to stop 99% of the special sweepers in existence, then you actually have to think, trying to predict the opponent, or maybe sacrificing one pokémon so that a counter to said special sweeper can revenge kill it or stat up while it flees and begin your own sweep, etc.

The game wouldn't be destroyed without Blissey, it just would change, and not necessarily for bad.

I really don't mind Blisseys, they're a great opportunity to start my Sub-CM Mismagius sweep at least 50% of the time. The other 50% of the time, the opposite player is intelligent enough to not allow a partial or complete sweep on my part.
 
X-Act said:
Wait wait wait.

If Blissey wasn't in the metagame, would Porygon-Z and Togekiss really be raping whole teams? If they would, then Garchomp should be raping whole teams, since a Blissey-like physical wall does not exist.
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There are plenty of other good special walls. I prefer Regice actually. He rocks. More people should use it. If you compare it to blissey, it's almost as good defensively, and far better offensively.

Regice vs Blissey

Regice:

PROS

-STABed 100 Base sp. atk Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Charge Beam, etc.
-Toxic and Twave
-Explosion, Hammer Arm, Focus Punch, etc.
-Siesmic Toss
-Clear Body as an ability
-Very high Defense (328)
-Ridiculously high Special Defense (548)
-Good HP (364)
-Counter
-Curse and Amnesia

CONS

-No instant recovery
-Stealth Rock weakness
-Only one resistance
-Not quite as special defensive as Blissey



Blissey

PROS

-Twave, Toxic
-Wish, Softboiled... great recovery
-Siesmic Toss
-Useable special attack
-Great HP (714)
-great Special Defense (405)
-Natural Cure
-Counter

CONS

-It's fat and pink... -_-
-Ridiculous offensively
-130 maximum defense
-Only one resistance
-Did I say it was ugly yet?


This is just two of the great special walls. Milotic can do very well with Recover, Cradily rocks in Sandstorm (why people use blissey on a SS team I'll never know) and there are others. So no, we don't NEED blissey, but it is the best wall in the business. But other than thunderwave, thats all it can really do is, uh... wall.
 
First of all, Blissey gets Counter, too, so you can't list that as one of Regice's advantages. Also note that 364 isn't exactly "good" HP when compared to Cresselia and Blissey, and that defenses are to be considered in tandem with HP; that shows that Regice is a far cry from Blissey in terms of Special Defense, and only slightly better Defensively. Milotic is a poor special wall due to Electric weakness, and Cradily not as effective as Blissey due to Ice weakness; it would be nice for a special wall to not have weaknesses to common special attacks. In summary, there is absolutely nothing that has Blissey's extent of coverage.

And, stop injecting aesthetics into arguments regarding the power of a Pokemon. So what if you think Blissey is ugly? I could say Regice is angular, blue, and ugly, and that wouldn't change a thing.
 
The problem with blissey is that unlike with physical walls, there is very litle diversity beatween special walls. the only other special walls I can think of that are remotely useable are Snorlax, regice, Craydilly, togekiss, and well... I use a mantine :D You have for physical walling, Hippowdon, Rhyperior, bronzong, forretress, skarmory, Donphan, swampert, dusknoir, jirachi, celebi, Uxie, Steelix, and cressilia. That's an absolute assload of pokes. (I understand dusknoir and cressy can be special walls also, but they tend to go more physical)

Blissey is balanced and will serve a painfully obvious niche in the metagame as the speacial whore most Spattackers can't break.
 
Great Sage said:
First of all, Blissey gets Counter, too, so you can't list that as one of Regice's advantages. Also note that 364 isn't exactly "good" HP when compared to Cresselia and Blissey, and that defenses are to be considered in tandem with HP; that shows that Regice is a far cry from Blissey in terms of Special Defense, and only slightly better Defensively. Milotic is a poor special wall due to Electric weakness, and Cradily not as effective as Blissey due to Ice weakness; it would be nice for a special wall to not have weaknesses to common special attacks. In summary, there is absolutely nothing that has Blissey's extent of coverage.

And, stop injecting aesthetics into arguments regarding the power of a Pokemon. So what if you think Blissey is ugly? I could say Regice is angular, blue, and ugly, and that wouldn't change a thing.
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Ok, I added Counter to Blissey.

Are you implying that you LIKE the way blissey looks?! I mean even if you don't like Regice, you must admit that it definitely looks much better than a fat pink blob.

And yes, looks are important to some people. I won't touch Garchomp because I hate the way it looks. I use Salamence instead. Same thing for blissey. There are alternatives.
 
I think perhaps this gens two heavy hitters in special attack, PZ and Togekiss, might have been made to help make Blisseys presence more justified. Just a thought though.
 
LOL, maybe Alakazam needs Focus Punch :D

A guy earlier said his little bro owned him because an Alakazam focus punched his blissey, got a crit and OHKOed it.
 
Time Mage said:
That would simply mean that the metagame would become a tad more offensive. If you don't have a surefire way to stop 99% of the special sweepers in existence, then you actually have to think, trying to predict the opponent, or maybe sacrificing one pokémon so that a counter to said special sweeper can revenge kill it or stat up while it flees and begin your own sweep, etc.
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Instead of answering, I'll just quote what Carl said since he basically continued my point:

Originally Posted by Carl
And all this talk about being able to counter the hard hitting physical attackers so we shouldn't need Blissey to counter hard hitting special attackers is kind of silly. Part of the reason why teams can deal with physical attackers without using a physical defense counterpart to Blissey is because Blissey gives teams the luxury to use a combination of defensive pokemon of different types to abuse resistances and immunities. With Blissey you don't have to worry about special attacks as much and can then focus your team on the physical end. I'm not saying it's impossible to make a team without Blissey or anything but without it the game changes significantly.
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Rhyperior @Leftovers
Solid Rock
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
132 HP, 164 Speed, 214 Sp. Def
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Swords Dance
Substitute

Comes in on Blissey or Cresselia's Thunder Wave (or Ice Beam, as with Solid Rock, it only does around 25%). Should be used in conjunction with Sandstream, as with the Sp. Def boost, an Ice Beam from either of them will never be breaking your sub. The HP EVs allow 404, so Blissey's Seismic Toss fails to break it as well. From there, it's a simple case of Swords Dance up and hit something hard. After a Swords Dance, it's doing 75% to Skarmory with Stone Edge. Cresselia takes slightly less, but can't touch Rhyperior in return.

I never use Blissey, and when I play against one I typically see it as setup fodder.
 
Yes and No. if he is the most used pokemon in the game, then yes, he is gamebreaking.

for the no however takes much deeper thinking. while the common physical attacks can be walled by the likes of ground types, water types and levitating steels, who has these good typing for the special side. no one really (spiritomb is a weak special wall) can wall special attacks using resistances and lack of weaknesses like bronzong and hippodawn etc. so to make up for the lack of resistances, the special walls need to have much higher defences and HP. without blissey, special attacks would be overpowered and the metagame would be VERY, VERY different, probably in a bad way.
 
ChouToshio said:
Instead of answering, I'll just quote what Carl said since he basically continued my point:
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I'm not saying you have to wall everything. Stall teams are based on that: You wall things while they kill themselves. As Carl said, without Blissey that wouldn't be possible, since you cannot carry enough pokémon in a team to wall all physical and special attackers. But who said you have the right to wall everything? Not having a perfect team for everything can (and let me emphasize it: *can*, not will) make the metagame more diverse, creating many viable teams that work well against other, equally viable teams but don't against another. I personally like that, and, again, I don't think it would destroy the game, only change it.

But, if it's true that the lack of Blissey wouldn't destroy the game, her presence doesn't either. As stated in this thread many times, there are quite a few pokémon that see Blissey as an opportunity to stat up, and no Blissey can counter all of those. The fact that, although stupidly powerful (defensive-wise), she's the most expected pokémon, so most teams have at least a way or to to get around her, lessens her threat, too.

I am by no means an awesome player, but I've managed to maintain a 50~ rank on the shoddybattle ladder for quite some time, and I've never used Blissey (personal preference, I know she's the best at what she does). I've never, ever been swept by a Porygon-Z or a Togekiss. Never. And that on an environment that can be considered to have a good enough level to assure that the Porygon-Zs and Togekiss are used well.
 
skiddle said:
Are you implying that you LIKE the way blissey looks?! I mean even if you don't like Regice, you must admit that it definitely looks much better than a fat pink blob.

And yes, looks are important to some people. I won't touch Garchomp because I hate the way it looks. I use Salamence instead. Same thing for blissey. There are alternatives.
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I'm pretty sure he is just playing (a 100% warranted) devil's advocate here and doesn't really care about a pokemon's looks in relation to how it fares competitively. Looks may be important to some people, but on this board they should not factor into one's decision on whether or not to use a pokemon.
 
X-Act said:
Wait wait wait.

If Blissey wasn't in the metagame, would Porygon-Z and Togekiss really be raping whole teams? If they would, then Garchomp should be raping whole teams, since a Blissey-like physical wall does not exist.
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Especially with other walls that can reach nearly the same as Blissey in sandstorm (hi Cradily).
 
I think a good EV trained Breloom with spore Sub and Focus Punch could haandle a blissey very well I mean 150+STAB40+very efectiv=380
I never tried it but I think it should work if not reply
 
Blissey's job is to absorb damage from Sp. Attackers. The blissey user would switch out before you even used Spore / Sub on Breloom.
 
I do think Blissey is a really important part of the metagame. She does make special sweeping harder, and to be a good player, you have to come up with atlernate strategies and ways to defeat everything that's thrown at you.

That being said, I don't run Blissey b/c I don't like her. However, I know what to do when I face one, and it usually works.
 
Blissey has never been gamebreaking. She's a special wall, and a good one. How crippling. If only it had a counter... what's that? Any Physical move seriously threatens her? Oh wow, the game is centralized!

Blissey is still a great poke though.
 
Chris is me said:
Blissey has never been gamebreaking. She's a special wall, and a good one. How crippling. If only it had a counter... what's that? Any Physical move seriously threatens her? Oh wow, the game is centralized!
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Quit with the trolling. No one enjoys it.

Oh, and nice job on your research there bud. Even a CB Gross MM doesn't OHKO Max/Max Blissey. Granted that it almost does, but it doesn't. That means that you could, theoretically, paralyze the gross as it came in and proceed to out stall it with spammed softboileds until it was fully para'd, then hit it with an SToss. MMs crappy accuracy doesn't help, but the attack boost evens things IIRC. But that's besides the point. A counter has to be able to switch into ANY attack the Pokemon has and KO it back eventually right? Well, in this case, even though the odds are highly against you, your Blissey could beat a Gross 1 on 1. Oh, and most Meta's I've seen that switch in on Bliss don't even use MM, because they think that there will be a switch to something that resists steel. Maybe these are just my experiences though.
 
ultimifier said:
Yes and No. if he is the most used pokemon in the game, then yes, he is gamebreaking.

for the no however takes much deeper thinking. while the common physical attacks can be walled by the likes of ground types, water types and levitating steels, who has these good typing for the special side. no one really (spiritomb is a weak special wall) can wall special attacks using resistances and lack of weaknesses like bronzong and hippodawn etc. so to make up for the lack of resistances, the special walls need to have much higher defences and HP. without blissey, special attacks would be overpowered and the metagame would be VERY, VERY different, probably in a bad way.
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It would, yes, but Spiritomb is nowhere near the "2nd" Special wall. Empoleon's 11 resistances and one immunity and only one Special weak (Electric) makes it an effective stopping force.
 
i wish the likes of blissey fans would stop treating her like some god or something. we dont need blissey, i just resently started using one (for far different reasons mind you) and i did just fine if not great without her. bronzong works wonders.

she's not the end all be all. like said above, any physical attack makes her cry, and even if it doesnt OHKO (which some do) then it still leaves a huge dent. walls are not supposed to take huge dents. they're supposed to "wall" them. as i recall, no smart player would leav a blissey in on a physical attack. even if it doesnt OHKO
 
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